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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 26
    pyroth309 said:
    Well I didn't partake in all of that lol.

    I know (I remember). Neither did Luciferous from what I recall. But the moment you both pre-ordered Index, I realized I started typing up counter-points to your "new style of posting" strictly from my 2017 and 2018 repertoire. It is actually very rare to encounter someone on this forum who owns more than one VR Product from more than one Vendor who remains consistent and unbiased; who doesn't shift their narrative with each purchase.

    Off the top of my head, Techy111 is probably my favorite poster to read when it comes to unbiased discussion. He's going from the Rift to HP Reverb, but he doesn't start talking like those who jumped from Oculus to HTC, Valve, or Microsoft. Good 'ol Cyber is another fair and unbiased poster, who gave his feedback on his O+.

    I'm not trying to insult you here, buddy. I'm saying this because I've really enjoyed your posts for well over year and I do believe it is possible for you to enjoy your Index without adopting the same Atmospheric dialogue as the lesser posters who have fallen down that path. If Techy and Cyber can do it then so you can you, baby!
    <3

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,552 Valuable Player
    edited May 26
    Zenbane said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Well I didn't partake in all of that lol. 
    I'm not trying to insult you here, buddy. I'm saying this because I've really enjoyed your posts for well over year and I do believe it is possible for you to enjoy your Index without adopting the same Atmospheric dialogue as the lesser posters who have fallen down that path. If Techy and Cyber can do it then so you can you, baby!
    <3

    The course of this thread went into ripping the size of the knuckles. I simply pointed out a side benefit of them being large and that's being Atmospheric? I am a function over form guy and have no problem with the size of them. I wouldn't have bought them if I did. It has nothing to do with bias toward Valve or Oculus or anything else. In fact I am still supporting Oculus as I own a Quest and just about all of the games available for it.

    If the Rift-S had the same specs as the Index, I would have bought it and said the same things. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 26
    pyroth309 said:
    The course of this thread went into ripping the size of the knuckles. I simply pointed out a side benefit of them being large and that's being Atmospheric?

    I'm not referring to just one or two threads, or one or two posts. I won't press the point, it's been enough of a digression.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27

    You’re  the one arguing zen, pyroth and runes are trying their best to be polite to you.

    I mean why on earth are you trying to bring gloves into it. Totally not practical for gaming and not on any manufacturers radar.

    We are not interested in 3 year long Grudges with atmos over them. Try to keep an open mind, if you are here to discuss non oculus technology but if you are here just to put it down regardless by all means carry on.
     
    We are pretty excited about them as is every reviewer I have seen so far.

    Runes and pyroth have been very diplomatic in their posts. Me not so much.

    I think the rift s is not a worthy successor to the CV1 and therefore I Have said so. I don’t wear Oculus tinted spectacles as I judge each product by its worth not by who made it.

    By the way I think the quest is brilliant. Might get one myself at some point.




  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,605 Valuable Player

    Your’e the one arguing zen, pyroth and runes are trying their best to be polite to you.

    I mean why on earth are you trying to bring gloves into it. Totally not practical for gaming and not on any manufacturers radar.

    We are not interested in 3 year long Grudges with atmos over them. Try to keep an open mind, if you are here to discuss non oculus technology but if you are here just to put it down regardless by all means carry on.
     
    We are pretty excited about them as is every reviewer I have seen so far.

    Runes and pyroth have been very diplomatic in their posts. Me not so much.

    I think the rift s is not a worthy successor to the CV1 and therefore I Have said so. I don’t wear Oculus tinted spectacles as I judge each product by its worth not by who made it.





    In fact I don't think there's any need for "Us vs. Them" group psychology to be used. We're all just a bunch of enthusiasts who love VR. And of course we want the best experience possible - no matter who delivers the hardware. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    You’re  the one arguing zen, pyroth and runes are trying their best to be polite to you.

    I am quite certain that everyone's debating to a certain degree. Doesn't surprise me to see you view it so one-sided considering your shift in narrative as of late.

    I mean why on earth are you trying to bring gloves into it.

    Because a statement was made about the benefit of finger tracking. Are you not able to grasp the concept of Gloves and Fingers? I provided a video and pictures to help with that.


    Totally not practical for gaming and not on any manufacturers radar.

    They have the exact same practical use as Valve Knuckles with added options and increased accuracy. But again, you're one of those who now appears to be blinded as a result of making a product choice.


    Try to keep an open mind

    Umm... you're the one who just argued that VR Gloves aren't practical for gaming. Forget an open mind, just do some basic research:


    I don’t wear Oculus tinted spectacles

    Right. You wear Valve tinted spectacles lol.


    if you are here to discuss non oculus technology but if you are here just to put it down regardless by all means carry on.

    I think that any vendor product should be subject to the same level of criticism and analysis as any Oculus or Facebook product. For some reason people like you think you're immune to it. You're not. I'll happily remind you of that. I am just as passionate about VR and have just as strong as opinion.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    RuneSR2 said:
    In fact I don't think there's any need for "Us vs. Them" group psychology to be used. We're all just a bunch of enthusiasts who love VR. And of course we want the best experience possible - no matter who delivers the hardware. 

    The problem is that people suddenly want to avoid an "Us vs Them" discussion the moment a non-Oculus product is criticized. But it is always free reign on criticizing any consumers who do choose an Oculus product. I don't play that game. If we truly want to avoid an "Us vs. Them" mentality then that needs to be applied across-the-board, not just as a matter of convenience.

    If you truly want the "best experience possible" as it pertains to this topic... then you should clearly see that limitations of something like Knuckles in comparison to VR Gloves. And it's not just Oculus that is providing VR Gloves, as can be clearly seen with a simple search.
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  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,002 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    I think it is just fine to like other options heck I like reverb a lot well before it decided to explode on the launchpad for some reason!

    we are all Amigos here as long as we all return to the bunny zone it’s all great   :)

    Edit, i meant reverb :) Doh so many choices!





    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,502 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    I think it is just fine to like other options heck I like Index a lot well before it decided to explode on the launchpad for some reason!

    we are all Amigos here as long as we all return to the bunny zone it’s all great   :)


    Well said [thumbs up]
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    ** New Book **
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  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,002 Valuable Player


    I see you don't mention other people toxically posting as long they are for Oculus right? Take a good look through this thread, not going to warn anybody else for their toxic behaviour?



    I was not trying to be toxic Luciferous,
    i genuinely wondered why so big, i have since i seen others holding them.

    You answered this question though mentioning how big you are, i am on the complete opposite side and was only seeing it from my size pov.
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    vannagirl said:
    I think it is just fine to like other options heck I like Index a lot well before it decided to explode on the launchpad for some reason!

    we are all Amigos here as long as we all return to the bunny zone it’s all great   :)

    OK the bunny won me over, I'll bring the carrots. :) However white bunnies are best but we can argue about that when we get there.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,002 Valuable Player

    OK the bunny won me over, I'll bring the carrots. :)

    Awesome!

    also i edited my first post i did mean Reverb launch not Index, my bad
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,502 Valuable Player
    Returning briefly to the subject.

    Index is shrouded in mystery still due to the embargo but we are aware of its support of Lighthouse 2 and obviously Knuckles. From a game developers perspective they have been encouraged to support this tracking platform (as seen by the leaking of more Knuckles unboxings than Index images!)

    Will this encourage or dissuade developers - as only Index, StarVR, Pimax and Vive will be supporting that tracking methodology. As we have seen with the issues with Rift-S special attention is needed to support that platform?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    vannagirl said:


    I see you don't mention other people toxically posting as long they are for Oculus right? Take a good look through this thread, not going to warn anybody else for their toxic behaviour?



    I was not trying to be toxic Luciferous,
    i genuinely wondered why so big, i have since i seen others holding them.

    You answered this question though mentioning how big you are, i am on the complete opposite side and was only seeing it from my size pov.

    I think that was somebody else with big hands, I have hands like a girl :) No I said myself they look clumsy so not what I am referring to.

    I don't think anybody is being toxic. Sure there are people who's only intention is to make fun of it regardless of how good or bad it is but that works both ways. Personally I don't care, a bit banter does no harm.

    I had no complaints until he had a go at me, Runes and Pyroth. 

    But I am in the bunny zone now...:)

  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,852
    Project 2501
    Zenbane said:

    pyroth309 said:
    For me to get into gloves and such for VR they would have to have some kind of haptic or resistance.
    I prefer haptics off. It has always seemed rather unrealistic and silly to me. When I grab an object in real life, it doesn't actually vibrate! lol

    Having something to grab adds a lot to immersion.

    If you're grabbing a piece of paper in VR but your real-life hands are squeezing an oversized shaft, then you're not actually mirroring the simulation.


    The other option of course is trackable objects that you'd use with the gloves like a pistol grip or sword hilt.

    Yes, a good option for those who need the one-to-one relationship. And this is an option that Gloves have but Wands do not.


    One of the benefits of knuckles being large is the tracking will be rock solid. A lot of sensors on it.

    That's not really a thing. The goal of technology is to get smaller and more efficient, not larger. We don't need huge objects just to get rock solid tracking. Nor do large objects guarantee rock solid tracking.

    That's like saying that we need larger cell phones to get better reception!


    The reason you don't like haptics are good but for me I it makes the experience better. I especially enjoy it in fps.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    Lets look at your opening post.

    Its ironic that you are complaining about exactly what you have been doing since the start of this thread.


    This is not the first thread on this forum. You don't seem to understand irony, and you must have been viewing this forum with your eyes closed if you believe that my first joke in this thread was the first time anyone used a bit of satire to poke fun at a product.

    If you cant be independently minded then at least be honest about it.

    Pot/Kettle.


    Is there one post where you say something good about the index? Is there one post you are not trying to kill our enthusiasm for our choice of next headset?

    Is this a Valve forum? At what point did you convince yourself that I'm supposed to play the role of providing you with blind support? I have spoken highly of other headsets, such as the Vive Cosmos which has eye-tracking. I even spoke highly of the HP Reverb. I've also spoken highly of other posters who are able to speak to their competitor product headsets in mature ways. Such as Techy and Cyber.


    And after this you have the cheek to warn Runes and Pyroths over "toxic" behaviour. Bloody ridiculous.


    I didn't "warn" them of anything. Nor did I accuse anyone of being "toxic." Learn to read.

    I actually respect both Runes and Pyroth, so I told them how I felt in hopes of reaching some common ground. But in your case... not so much.


    I am happy to admit I made a handful of comments which I shouldn't have done in other posts. However you notice the 'comments' because they don't follow the Oculus party line.

    That's a weak counter-argument that ignores the reality of things I've said. In this case, my interest in VR Gloves is not limited to products by Facebook nor Oculus. They are not the only ones who are working on VR Gloves. But you only see "Oculus" because you have gotten stuck in this type of tunnel-vision mode.


    I see you don't mention other people toxically posting as long they are for Oculus right? Take a good look through this thread, not going to warn anybody else for their toxic behaviour?

    I didn't accuse anyone in this thread of being "toxic" yet you can't seem to stop using that word. Sounds like you may feel guilty of something even though I didn't accuse you of it. Very telling! lol


    I am also happy to try to remain neutral and fair as possible if you are but you have to recognise that you do nothing to reduce the antagonism on this forum and are often the cause of it.

    I agree that I do nothing to reduce the antagonism that people like you create on this forum, but to accuse me of "causing it" is a flat out lie. Not to mention that I never see you do much to increase the intellectual conversation on this forum.

    And since you asked...

    I actually defended Valve in another thread. When Kevin claimed that their approach to Index is "draconian":
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/comment/682149/#Comment_682149

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    The reason you don't like haptics are good but for me I it makes the experience better. I especially enjoy it in fps.

    I think the biggest issue is that haptics aren't exactly accurate in all cases, nor do they activate in all cases. Whether using the Touch or Wands or Knuckles... the entire controller vibrates no matter what part of your VR hands are actually touching a VR Object. And not all VR Objects trigger haptics. So for me, the haptics start to feel like a watered down solution.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    Zenbane said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Well I didn't partake in all of that lol.

    I know (I remember). Neither did Luciferous from what I recall. But the moment you both pre-ordered Index, I realized I started typing up counter-points to your "new style of posting" strictly from my 2017 and 2018 repertoire. It is actually very rare to encounter someone on this forum who owns more than one VR Product from more than one Vendor who remains consistent and unbiased; who doesn't shift their narrative with each purchase.

    Off the top of my head, Techy111 is probably my favorite poster to read when it comes to unbiased discussion. He's going from the Rift to HP Reverb, but he doesn't start talking like those who jumped from Oculus to HTC, Valve, or Microsoft. Good 'ol Cyber is another fair and unbiased poster, who gave his feedback on his O+.

    I'm not trying to insult you here, buddy. I'm saying this because I've really enjoyed your posts for well over year and I do believe it is possible for you to enjoy your Index without adopting the same Atmospheric dialogue as the lesser posters who have fallen down that path. If Techy and Cyber can do it then so you can you, baby!
    <3

    How many times have you been banned, how many arguments have you caused in this forum derailing post after post. You are in no position to be lecturing anybody on posting style.

    I'll post what I like within forum rules, you are not the forum police or a moderator. Keep your condescending opinions about me to yourself and I'll do you the same courtesy of not responding likewise. 

    Congratulations on maneuvering your little dark cloud over another post.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    I'll post what I like within forum rules

    Ditto.

    you are not the forum police or a moderator.

    I never claimed to be either of those.


    Keep your condescending opinions about me to yourself and I'll do you the same courtesy of not responding likewise.

    Ummm, how about this: I'll post what I like within forum rules.


    Congratulations on maneuvering your little dark cloud over a another post.

    I am simply giving my response to things others, including you, have said. I can call things you've said in multiple threads a "dark cloud" as well, but that's just boring. I'd rather address the subject matter.

    How about we agree to argue over the subject matter instead of taking personal shots at each other? Granted, I can do both just fine, but for the sake of the forum (and forum rules) we should probably make the effort!

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    OK sounds good. What colour rabbit do you like :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,605 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    Returning briefly to the subject.

    Index is shrouded in mystery still due to the embargo but we are aware of its support of Lighthouse 2 and obviously Knuckles. From a game developers perspective they have been encouraged to support this tracking platform (as seen by the leaking of more Knuckles unboxings than Index images!)

    Will this encourage or dissuade developers - as only Index, StarVR, Pimax and Vive will be supporting that tracking methodology. As we have seen with the issues with Rift-S special attention is needed to support that platform?

    Exactly - we're more or less discussing a new platform we know very little about - apart from Tested's impressions, but we don't know if Tested's info will represent the final version of the Index. 

    Valve has the advantage of Steam, like Oculus has the advantage of Oculus Store - easily the two largest sellers of VR games and apps. Compared to StarVR, Pimax and even HTC, Valve could develop into a very interesting player in the market, but with the current Index price I don't think HTC should feel much of a threat... for now   
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,009 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    I think HTC should fear Oculus for entry level headset with the Rift S and Valve for the pro market.

    If the Rift S clears up its tracking and audio issues, I can't imagine why anybody would want to buy a Vive now considering the alternatives (if the index turns out to be as good as it is claimed). 

    I think the quest rules unchallenged yet in its domain, cosmos being a complete mystery still.



  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,852
    Project 2501
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    The reason you don't like haptics are good but for me I it makes the experience better. I especially enjoy it in fps.

    I think the biggest issue is that haptics aren't exactly accurate in all cases, nor do they activate in all cases. Whether using the Touch or Wands or Knuckles... the entire controller vibrates no matter what part of your VR hands are actually touching a VR Object. And not all VR Objects trigger haptics. So for me, the haptics start to feel like a watered down solution.
    Agreed. I shouldn't  like haptics as much as I do but for some reason I do. It's illogical. That being said for the reasons u stated I hope it improves down the line. I never really thought much about your haptic reasoning. If I start enjoying it less you will hear from my lawyer

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,605 Valuable Player
    edited May 27
    I think HTC should fear Oculus for entry level headset with the Rift S and Valve for the pro market.
    My thought was primarily that HTC seems connected to several enterprises, while Valve still has a long way to go. Interesting how long it'll take for Index to gain bigger market share than Vive Pro - if it happens. Maybe late this year or early 2020 if Index is a great succes? 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • parsecnparsecn Posts: 20
    Brain Burst
    pyroth309 said:
    I wasn't interested in knuckles at all until Rift-S was announced and I decided it wasn't the headset for me then I started looking into them. I have no ulterior motives, I'm just sharing my thoughts with the info in this thread. Obviously noone really knows what they're capable of until users get them. 

    Same boat. Was entirely disappointed with the Rift-S spec announcement and how it was rolled out. GDC saw press test the HMD with limited demo titles and no games with behind the back play or fps, which left the community mostly asking, "Can we do action X in game Y?" We're getting our answers now. Also, many at the time plainly stated tracking was good if not great (and felt was the right direction for Oculus in a big picture sense, also presumably towing the line) but that the "fidelity" of a 3 (or 4) sensor, constellation system is or would be superior (with caveat, yet to try their own titles). Again, we're getting our answers on this now.

    I'm a CV1 user in the 1% https://developer.oculus.com/hardware-report/pc/ category for GPU and Sensor Distribution where tracking is tantamount to any feature. Offering a lesser product by moving in a simplified direction to appease the majority of users who don't have dedicated room-space or can't be bothered to resolve USB issues really bummed me out. I went from being a 1-eyed Oculus supporter, feeling like Oculus represents the uber-geek or the dreamer to feeling dumped. Confused to dumped, within about a week. 

    And from feeling dumped, I've become entirely enamored with Valve's Index including Knuckles. We've all seen Norm's reaction and enthusiasm for the product in the Tested clip. The high refresh rates at 120-144Hz has him feeling like he's on caffeine with realism being like nothing (he'd) experienced before with motion being very smooth, proper IPD, somewhere around 130 degrees FOV. I'm looking forward to demoing the pixel persistence claims and absolutely think a controller with 87 sensors and finger tracking is cool, to put it mildly. 

    That's not me arguing or saying Oculus is crap. It's me saying I'm super bummed Rift 2.0 was canceled. I'm super bummed to see the last of the greats like Brendan Iribe taking off. I'm super bummed with the splintered hardware choices all seemingly designed to push the masses into adoption not to mention the complications it causes developers and their relationship with Oculus. 


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,111 Valuable Player
    parsecn said:
     And from feeling dumped, I've become entirely enamored with Valve's Index including Knuckles.

    Have you tried the Index?

    People tend to become enamored with VR Products before they are released, and then that adoration fades away post-release. There have been similar threads to this for every user who feels jaded by an Oculus decision and enamored with the competition.
    • People felt jaded because Rift CV1 shipped with a single sensor an X-Box controller, so became enamored with Vive CV1.
    • People felt jaded that Oculus failed to release any news of a new Rift, so became enamored with Vive Pro.
    • People felt jaded that Oculus was focusing on GO and Quest, so became enamored with Pimax 8K.
    And look at Vive Pro and Pimax 8K today... barely talked about while the new unreleased "promise of glory" is being hailed as the savior of Oculus' bad decision-making.

    Who knows, maybe Index will finally be the HMD that everyone feels they need. My only point is that the cycle seems rather endless.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,502 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ....
    Exactly - we're more or less discussing a new platform we know very little about - apart from Tested's impressions, but we don't know if Tested's info will represent the final version of the Index. 

    Valve has the advantage of Steam, like Oculus has the advantage of Oculus Store - easily the two largest sellers of VR games and apps. Compared to StarVR, Pimax and even HTC, Valve could develop into a very interesting player in the market, but with the current Index price I don't think HTC should feel much of a threat... for now   

    Nail on head!
    I am in a little of a difficult area with TESTED, I know some of the guys but I am not a fan of their coverage - especially the whole vested interest reporting that had to be stopped. So they have form for not being 100% "clean" when reporting on hardware. I await the exceptions regarding their claims of no issues with Rift-S - and likewise I expect a lot of back peddling on their gushing review of Index and Revive. They are an example of what I was talking previously about before the attempted derailment - we are in the dark, and by the time the light dawns no one cares (the ultimate definition of click bait). 

    Again agree over the observations with Valve - if you remember back in 2014, the partnership with Oculus and Valve caused so much interest over the promise of SteamVR - and so much consternation when this all fell apart. I am not sure of the number Oculus Stores does in comparison to VivePort (Asian numbers included), but I would have to bet on Steam at this moment - maybe if Apple+ does VR apps then I may change my betting, but initially the flood of titles Valve will engender through Steam for their headset (let alone the news of any possible HL3 linkup) will target the core high-end VR audience. While I think Quest is in an excellent position to be the Nintendo Wii too Valves Macintosh. 

     
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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