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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,112 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    KlodsBrik said:
    inovator said:
    Does anyone know how well other headsets with revive play rift games?
    Just as well as Rift with Steam vr.

    Thanks for info. If index is what we would expect rift 2 to have been I'll gladly buy the index instead 
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    edited March 30
    inovator said:
    Thanks for info. If index is what we would expect rift 2 to have been I'll gladly p
    You shouldn't hold it back. That's unhealthy .. lol .. sorry :smile:
    Be good, die great !
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    That is an interesting take that it could be Oculus that rushed. Perhaps the Valve HMD leak in November scared them. Valve takes so long to do anything that they were able to beat them out of the gate forcing Valve to release marketing early. I like competition lol.  
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    I inverted the picture.  You can see 3 additional sensor locations in the middle.  Also you can see some "slotted" openings somewhere under the front face shield.
    Yea when I zoomed in on the other lightened picture, it looks like they're under the cover piece. I just zoomed in again and it has like material/cloth or something in the slots.
  • phoenixdigitalphoenixdigital Posts: 167
    Art3mis
    edited March 30
    I inverted the picture.  You can see 3 additional sensor locations in the middle.  Also you can see some "slotted" openings somewhere under the front face shield.

     I suspect they might be IR LEDs to illuminate objects close to the headset (like hands) which will make it easier for hand tracking algorithms.
    CPU: i5 6600K (conservative overclock), GPU: Asus GTX1080Ti (not overclocked), motherboard: Asus Z170 Pro Gaming, USB Card 1: Inatek 4 Port, USB Card 2: Startek 2 Port
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 467
    Trinity
    edited March 30

    pyroth309 said:

    They did a good job on his likeness.

    Hey!

    **EDIT**
    Regarding the Index, Heaney was pretty spot on with his Oculus sources and nailing down the specs before it was revealed.  If the Index is the "Vive Pro" resolution but over 135 FOV, even with RGB stripe LCD, the Screen Door Effect would probably still be very noticeable.
    Also, according to Abrash at OC5, fresnel lenses have a limit of around 140 degrees before they start having significant image distortions (ie: refer to Pimax). That's probably why its a 135 fov (making Valve News Network (terrible name) a less reliable source since they're saying 150 fov)

    So if the Valve Index is a higher fov but lower clarity headset than the Oculus Rift-S, then the RIft-S still has a place.
    I think in the end, it may be justified to get both headsets. That way you get the both of Oculus content and Valve content.
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    Hey!

     Lol, I never even noticed that you were using Giorgio for a profile pic. 
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30

    **EDIT**
    Regarding the Index, Heaney was pretty spot on with his Oculus sources and nailing down the specs before it was revealed.  If the Index is the "Vive Pro" resolution but over 135 FOV, even with RGB stripe LCD, the Screen Door Effect would probably still be very noticeable.
    Also, according to Abrash at OC5, fresnel lenses have a limit of around 140 degrees before they start having significant image distortions (ie: refer to Pimax). That's probably why its a 135 fov (making Valve News Network (terrible name) a less reliable source since they're saying 150 fov)

    So if the Valve Index is a higher fov but lower clarity headset than the Oculus Rift-S, then the RIft-S still has a place.
    I think in the end, it may be justified to get both headsets. That way you get the both of Oculus content and Valve content.

    This is why I was saying I could see people still favoring the Reverb for Simming or people who just want the sharpest image possible. There's no way a 135 FoV Vive pro equivalent screen is going to be as sharp and clear as a 2160x2160 115 FoV LCD RGB headset. At the same time, I can't really imagine the screen being much higher than that or they will exclude a lot of potential buyers. 

    That being said, there was a patent Valve filed that was for the mitigation of screen door effect in head mounted displays. So perhaps screen door may not be much of an issue. I'll copy an explanation from Virtual Reality reddit. 

    This is pretty straight-forward. This one is talking about using a microlens display in between the lens and the users eye in order to reduce the screen door effect. As far as I understand it, it's like having an array of tiny magnifying glasses so that you'll see more of the pixels and less of the space in between the pixels. It differs from the diffusion filter used in the Odyssey+, as that was placed between the panels and the lens, not between the lens and your eyes (as this patent is about). It probably also wouldn't reduce the sharpness of the display, as I understand it.

    https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bf/4b/b8/bb8f5a213325d5/US20180038996A1.pdf

    Here's the rest of his post and the other patents that were filed. Some interesting ones in there for sure.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/b7ceyg/valve_patents_speculation_about_the_index_hmd/
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    Deleted.
  • trek554trek554 Posts: 83
    Hiro Protagonist
    Win 10 Pro | i9 9900KF | MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC | MSI RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio | G.SKILL 32GB DDR4 3200 CL14 | Samsung Evo 860 4TB SSD | Cooler Master CM500 | EVGA SuperNOVA P2 750 watt | Sound Blaster Zx
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    trek554 said:

    That sounds impressive the hand and leg tracking I mean. I guess we know why the camera's are pointing down now. They never spoke about the image though which is the most important thing. Neither did they say how good the tracking was. Even though they only had 5 mins they could have determined how good the image and tracking was to some degree, but they mentioned neither.

    Edit: I just realised why they didn't mention the above. I don't think their allowed to say anything about these things.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    trek554 said:
    Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that any of the statements made in that video are true...

    Just the thought of the index being a system based around ditching all hand controllers and using Leap Motion style hand (and feet) tracking for gameplay?  That, I'd like to see.  Not own, because I doubt you could ever make visual hand-tracking precise and accurate enough (and allow for varied enough game input) to play serious games with it.. but I bet people would make some entertaining mixed-reality videos with it.  Valve might also dominate the VR chatroom sector, but I'm too much of an introvert to care about those, anyways. :tongue:

    OR, assuming that everything in the above video WAS false, here's my alternate theory:

    When Valve says "Upgrade your experience"  they mean the Index is literally an upgrade kit for other VR devices.   (Adds a physical slider onto the bottom of Rift-S that remotely controls the software IPD adjustment)  :lol:
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    trek554 said:

     I've never seen it if it was. Very interesting stuff if true. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,771 Valuable Player
    CrashFu said:
    trek554 said:
    Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that any of the statements made in that video are true...

    Just the thought of the index being a system based around ditching all hand controllers and using Leap Motion style hand (and feet) tracking for gameplay?  

    I think the way the guy in the video was speaking about legs and hand tracking. He made it sound like it blows Leap Motion out of the water.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    RedRizla said:
    CrashFu said:
    trek554 said:
    Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that any of the statements made in that video are true...

    Just the thought of the index being a system based around ditching all hand controllers and using Leap Motion style hand (and feet) tracking for gameplay?  

    I think the way the guy in the video was speaking about legs and hand tracking. He made it sound like it blows Leap Motion out of the water.

    I thought it was interesting that they said it was much smaller than a Pimax in size too so to be able to track your body is a headscratcher for me. But, I don't think many ever questioned the ingenuity of Valve, it's always been their ability to see their ideas through to fruition.  
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:.

    I thought it was interesting that they said it was much smaller than a Pimax in size too so to be able to track your body is a headscratcher for me. But, I don't think many ever questioned the ingenuity of Valve, it's always been their ability to see their ideas through to fruition.  
    Yeah, like Greenlight! And the Steam Machine! And those Steam gamepads! And Oculus Rift support in various Source games! And content for the Vive! And Half-Life 3!

    ... Wait, has Valve EVER seen any of their projects OR products through? :grimace:
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    CrashFu said:
    pyroth309 said:.

    I thought it was interesting that they said it was much smaller than a Pimax in size too so to be able to track your body is a headscratcher for me. But, I don't think many ever questioned the ingenuity of Valve, it's always been their ability to see their ideas through to fruition.  
    Yeah, like Greenlight! And the Steam Machine! And those Steam gamepads! And Oculus Rift support in various Source games! And content for the Vive! And Half-Life 3!

    ... Wait, has Valve EVER seen any of their projects OR products through? :grimace:

     Well the steam controller is still around and it's an actual product so might have to take that one off but otherwise yea pretty much. It's love/hate for sure but there's a lot of people that swear by the Steam controller because of the Gyro. It's actually viable in competitive fps play with mice.
  • geebee666geebee666 Posts: 224
    Nexus 6
    Yep, I love my steam controller, it is the only controller that can come very close to KB/M in games, no need for (vomit) aim assist.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    geebee666 said:
    Yep, I love my steam controller, it is the only controller that can come very close to KB/M in games, no need for (vomit) aim assist.

     Yea my only complaint about it is I wish it had a proper D-pad then I would have used it more. I prefer my Xbox Elite to it but I don't play FPS with my elite lol. 
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,105 Valuable Player
    I hear good things about the steam link too. Bought one on sale, and it's still in the box😑
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    trek554 said:

     I've never seen it if it was. Very interesting stuff if true. 

    They are stating that the video is false and just made for fun. Which may of course be true. But I don't think it's funny - most of their info about the fov (big, "but not as big as Pimax" - "twice as big as Rift-S") seems to fit what we know about the prototype rather perfectly. And the HMD's name correctly starts with "Valve" like they say. 
    And the NDA until "end of April" (=May, as it said in the official pic from Valve) fits too - and the Steam Dev Days that might come back doesn't sound too far-fetched. 

    So did these guys just break the NDA (which they may not have signed, but still could have consequences) and told us about the revolutionary tracking of hands and feet with no need for controllers due to downward-facing cameras? That would indeed be perfect for Doom VFR, where walking previously has been supported, for example like this - so Valve may have spent some time on this already:


    If the NDA was broken, if I was these guys, I too would definitely also subtract all statements made in the video. The way I see it, the video contains a lot of info that seems to check out perfectly, and the revolutionary stuff doesn't seem too unbelievable. 

    Image result for i want to believe
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    I feel they are doing damage control in that subreddit denying they knew anything and the video was just for fun.
    Be good, die great !
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    Also the Rift can already track my index fingers and my thumbs to some degree (contracting/extending), which I always found incredibly cool - going from that to the whole hand and two feet doesn't sound completely impossible - and would indeed be a true next step in VR immersion.  
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ShineHunterShineHunter Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    The biggest issue is that we know hardly nothing about the new Valve headset. I can't be wanting it till then plus I need to know if they got those god rays and SDE issues with the Vive/Pro sorted out as well. Also the price I can't afford 1k price tags. I would be one of these Pimax peeps if I could. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    edited March 31
    Hmmmm, I'm not a native English speaker, but I did go to school for many years - here's my shot at interpreting the name:


    If my understanding is correct, "Index" basically means "Reference". So Valve is producing a reference device and thereby setting a new standard that future HMDs will be compared to - and measured against.

    Yup, "I want to believe"  ;)  
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    Im hyped for sure, love the adrenaline rush !
     But the most likely outcome is we will get dissapointed.. lol

    Be good, die great !
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    Yea I'm sure there's some meaning like that behind it. My problem with Index is it's just too common of a word and will probably be confusing to Non-Vr people unless you say Valve Index,,, and even then they might think you're talking about a file index or a book index lol.
This discussion has been closed.