New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

Next Gen Consoles targeting more than 10.7 Tflops?

pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
edited March 31 in Off-Topic
Apparently Google Stadia has Sony and Microsoft concerned and rumors are flying that they will have their consoles exceed the 10.7 tflops of stadia's streaming service. That would be higher than a GTX 1080 at 9 teraflops.

According to the leak, Sony’s PS5 is aiming higher than Google Stadia’s 10.7 teraflop GPU. Not only the PS5, but Microsoft’s next Xbox codenamed Lockhart is also said to be gunning for the same target GPU.

The information comes from Kotaku’s Jason Schreier, who is a trusted source on industry insider knowledge. Schreier further claimed that both next-gen consoles are set to launch next year.


If this turns out to be legit, PSVR 2 could be a real contender and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft decides to jump in as well. 

https://digiworthy.com/2019/03/29/next-xbox-ps5-teraflops-stadia/
«13

Comments

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,225 Volunteer Moderator
    Interesting times. I'd like to know more about Google's server based gaming (or I suppose cloud-based is the term these days).

    Is tflop performance completely independent of internet performance? or is some sort of throttle necessary to compensate for any lag? If so, claims of performance could be similar to service providers claims of performance and we'll have 'up to' inserted in small print at the bottom of the adverts.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 1
    Interesting times. I'd like to know more about Google's server based gaming (or I suppose cloud-based is the term these days).

    Is tflop performance completely independent of internet performance? or is some sort of throttle necessary to compensate for any lag? If so, claims of performance could be similar to service providers claims of performance and we'll have 'up to' inserted in small print at the bottom of the adverts.
    Tflops is a measurement of the GPU power but it doesn't always translate directly to more FPS. There's other factors with architecture. 1 Tflop = 1 trillian floating-point operations per second. For example the Radeon VII has 13.8 TFLOPS and gets beat by the 1080TI for a lot of games in FPS. Drivers and API matter as well.

    The Google Server spec for Stadia is 10.7 Tflops of power so it's close to a 1080TI which is 11.3 but since it's an AMD card on the server it's probably more like a 1080 in gaming performance. 

    If you play a game on it, it can provide that kind of graphical fidelity. That's not accounting for the lag, Google hopes you forget about input lag.


  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,225 Volunteer Moderator
    edited April 1
    yeah, I guess thinking about it, graphical power doesn't impact on lag unless it's being used to deliver a higher frame rate or higher resolution... then that in turn could be an issue for slower or laggy connections.

    So, has 4k gaming been touted for Google Stadia? I'm guessing 30fps? or 25 for UK?
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 1
    I updated my post to be more correct, I gave a quick explanation and it wasn't correct enough.

    I would imagine 4k gaming is the goal with specs like that. 

    I just found this - 
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/19/18271702/google-stadia-cloud-gaming-service-announcement-gdc-2019

    Google says it expects to support up to 4K at 60 fps at launch over an internet connection with around 30Mbps of bandwidth, and it’s planning to support up to 8K resolutions and 120 fps in the future.

  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    Its very much doable even current  NVIDIA 1660ti has crossed it, its doing 11Tflops 

    https://www.techarp.com/computer/first-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-ti/

    Since its just $280 Card...cranking it in console no big deal at $450/500 release cost. 
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,225 Volunteer Moderator
    ah there are those words.... up to ;)

    Actually if they manage 4k 60fps on a 30Mbps connection, that's ok for a lot of people (depending on what their definition of no, or acceptable lag is).

    I can imagine a few scenarios where dad starts watching Netflix and little Timmy gets fragged cos of an fps wobble.
    The shower hot water problem of the new age.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 1
    ah there are those words.... up to ;)

    Actually if they manage 4k 60fps on a 30Mbps connection, that's ok for a lot of people (depending on what their definition of no, or acceptable lag is).

    I can imagine a few scenarios where dad starts watching Netflix and little Timmy gets fragged cos of an fps wobble.
    The shower hot water problem of the new age.
    Every1 need their own DSL lines then in each household...meh its pocket killing.
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,050 Valuable Player
    I couldn’t care less about Google or their crap but it’s good to hear some info about the new Xbox. 
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 1
    Digikid1 said:
    I couldn’t care less about Google or their crap but it’s good to hear some info about the new Xbox. 
    Did you put your hands on XB ONE X ( Now cheap as $382) ?
    https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-X-1TB-Console/dp/B074WPGYRF
    is it satisfying? Why Ms is not bringing VR to One X is elephant in the room question, when they already have WMR thing. Which in my opinion is way better to PSVR in tracking as on today.
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,050 Valuable Player
    Actually yes I do have a Xbox One X. Best console out there. Why they abandoned the Oculus project on it is beyond me as it is more than capable of doing so. Probably saving it as a selling point to the next Xbox. 
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 1
    They must start somewhere they are already late in terms of console VR, also lame excuse they given like Wireless Tech need to evolve blah blah.. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,115 Valuable Player
    It's going to fail for the same reason that Sony failed when they tried it a few years ago - people with slow internet connections and bandwidth limits. Today's broadband generally isn't good enough for the average gamer to use this sort of service.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,225 Volunteer Moderator
    I think MS have just got burned a few times when competing in an area that's already been developed more by others (Xbox being an exception).

    I have a feeling, they preferred to develop AR as a more emergent tech so they can forge a head start, plus AR must seem to them to have the potential to have more day to day uses so could have a much bigger impact in the long term, I think they're probably right, AR-VR convergence not withstanding.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 812
    3Jane
    snowdog said:
    It's going to fail for the same reason that Sony failed when they tried it a few years ago - people with slow internet connections and bandwidth limits. Today's broadband generally isn't good enough for the average gamer to use this sort of service.
    What's been tested so far through Google and MSs streaming shows it's already better than Sony's. Sony probably failed because they used existing tech instead of investing in the R & D needed to make it better like Google and MS are doing. According to MS you only need a 10 Mbps connection.
  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 585
    Neo
    Digikid1 said:
    Actually yes I do have a Xbox One X. Best console out there. Why they abandoned the Oculus project on it is beyond me as it is more than capable of doing so. Probably saving it as a selling point to the next Xbox. 
    Yeap, only reason i have a Pro is for the PSVR, but if MS had supported the WMR headsets or any other VR then i would not had a pro, i mean i see what the Pro did for Drive club VR did and i wonder what Forza would have looked like on the XBX with all that extra power, a missed opportunity as i think the WMR type headsets would have been a perfect solution for the XBX for VR.

  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    OmegaM4N said:
    Digikid1 said:
    Actually yes I do have a Xbox One X. Best console out there. Why they abandoned the Oculus project on it is beyond me as it is more than capable of doing so. Probably saving it as a selling point to the next Xbox. 
    Yeap, only reason i have a Pro is for the PSVR, but if MS had supported the WMR headsets or any other VR then i would not had a pro, i mean i see what the Pro did for Drive club VR did and i wonder what Forza would have looked like on the XBX with all that extra power, a missed opportunity as i think the WMR type headsets would have been a perfect solution for the XBX for VR.

    Specially since WMR need only 02 Port Single USB and Single HDMI, they are perfect for XBOX ONE X which can easily provide 02 Ports, yet single hdmi be free to serve television. XBOX ONE X already have 2HDMI and 2 USB n all usb port are 3.0. On WMR controller tracking is handled by camera so for Christ sake why MS is not releasing VR games on XBOX ONE X may be its for "For Christ's sake"  :D
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,050 Valuable Player
    I have a PS4 Pro but it is for the ONLY good game series for the Playstation. InFamous. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,750 Valuable Player
    edited April 9
    I do believe PS5 could be a real VR monster - if done right. 11 teraflops using highly optimized and fine-tuned code on the PS5 could be close to the real-world PCVR performance using a 2080 Ti (13-14 tflops). And many/most of the current great VR games are or will be available also for PSVR. 

    Nvidia better get the price down on those high-end RTX cards - and get us some more power efficient 7 nm models  B) 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 9
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do believe PS5 could be a real VR monster - if done right. 11 teraflops using highly optimized and fine-tuned code on the PS5 could be close to the real-world PCVR performance using a 2080 Ti (13-14 tflops). And many/most of the current great VR games are or will be available also for PSVR. 

    Nvidia better get the price down on those high-end RTX cards - and get us some more power efficient 7 nm models  B) 
    Yep, though Nvidia has some competition brewing. I'm super interested to see what Intel can do as they've been "stealing" a lot of GPU designers. They probably won't compete with Nvidia's TI this generation, but hopefully next. AMD completely failed on their architecture for the high end this gen. Here's hoping they fix it up for next as well.


    As far as the thread goes, I'd be shocked if Microsoft doesn't jump into VR with the next Xbox. I think with their financials and lower sales, they just weren't willing to pioneer it. But now that it's a more established and growing medium, they'd frankly be stupid not to now especially since they have WMR.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 10
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do believe PS5 could be a real VR monster - if done right. 11 teraflops using highly optimized and fine-tuned code on the PS5 could be close to the real-world PCVR performance using a 2080 Ti (13-14 tflops). And many/most of the current great VR games are or will be available also for PSVR. 

    Nvidia better get the price down on those high-end RTX cards - and get us some more power efficient 7 nm models  B) 
    Console SoCs always have upper hand for developer with Known Hardware and Low Level Unlock Tricks, hence 11 Teraflops ( Indeed  GTX 1660ti ) Should be sufficent for RIFT S class display. (which is nothing but 1440p monitor disguised as HMD, we all know 1660ti's 1440p performance figures they are awesome like Witcher 3 plays at 60 Fps at all details maxed, and 90+ Fps in case some not so critical details dialed down to half.) So yes future PS 5 with 11 teraflops can easily fuel RIFT S which is great deal for good vr. 

    Regarding pricing....They are bound to come down, any case Ray Tracing (Which is semi synthetic at present and not 100% real ray tracing..google it) is not that big deal for me when compared with 90+ Fps vs 50 Fps. 1660ti is already right priced at $280 which throw 1070 out of water ($380 in OCT 2018). 1660ti will be $240/250 by Christmas so not bad at all.   
  • DilipDilip Posts: 252
    Nexus 6
    edited April 10
    pyroth309 said:

    I'm super interested to see what Intel can do as they've been "stealing" a lot of GPU designers. They probably won't compete with Nvidia's TI this generation, but hopefully next. AMD completely failed on their architecture for the high end this gen. Here's hoping they fix it up for next as well. 

    As far as the thread goes,
    Intel porched AMD's Radeon Guru Raja Koduri  Senior vice president and chief GPU Architect, Radeon Who had introduced RX 480 back in 2016 at $300 which helped AMD to re establish its position as competitor in GPU industry which was by then low to rags..... 

     
    Now Senior Vice President and General Manager of Intel Architecture, Graphics and Software at Intel Corporation since March 2019. He was the Chief Architect, Senior Vice President of Core & Visual Computing Group and General Manager of Edge Computing Solutions at Intel Corporation since December 2017 until March 2019. Mr. Koduri has 20 years of hands-on experience advancing the visual computing experience, from application software programming ...
    here nice article on why he left AMD. 

    https://hothardware.com/news/intel-discrete-gpu-boss-raja-koduri-explains-why-he-left-amd

    pyroth309 said:

     I'd be shocked if Microsoft doesn't jump into VR with the next Xbox. I think with their financials and lower sales, they just weren't willing to pioneer it. But now that it's a more established and growing medium, they'd frankly be stupid not to now especially since they have WMR.
    Microsoft's resistance to VR has not much to do with their financials and lower sales, had there been case there never been WMR, its their stupid XBOX Leadership which prevented VR to take place on XBOX, Specially ONE X since S was never capable for VR, may be those short sighted people waiting every XBOX ONE S to be replaced by XBOX ONE X after which they will start shifting WMR games to XBOX ONE X by then they will be late by 5+ years to already skyrocketing PSVR. Microsoft XBOX Leadership must identify hidden gofers within them which are hampering their progress on VR front.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 192
    Art3mis
    Looks like Sony is going to own.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,494 Volunteer Moderator
    I'd say so mate, how you doing ?
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,074 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do believe PS5 could be a real VR monster - if done right. 11 teraflops using highly optimized and fine-tuned code on the PS5 could be close to the real-world PCVR performance using a 2080 Ti (13-14 tflops). And many/most of the current great VR games are or will be available also for PSVR. 

    Nvidia better get the price down on those high-end RTX cards - and get us some more power efficient 7 nm models  B) 
    i am pretty excited for the next gen of consoles..... esp as i assume they will both be fully backwards compatible. i am only getting one if disk based however (which both of the next gen ones are, but i think these will be the last ones) MS are already phasing out the xbox1s and having a digital only version as their base model and Xbox2 will come in 2 flavours.

    i believe Xbox3 and PS6 will be digital only (or god help up cloud streaming only)  I hate having PC as digital only but at least history shows us they tend to support the platform more than consoles.

    but yeah i can imagine the next gen consoles being good for VR..... i hope they go all in on cross platform mutliplayer however as i know some of my mates will stay PC regardless.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    Yea, streaming is going to happen at some point. Even on PS4/Xbox, more people are downloading than buying boxes now. It's only a matter of time.

    Curious to see what Microsoft does now. Are they still going to go for the performance edge like the Xbox One X? Ideally for me is they release a new generation of WMR and allow it to work on the new Xbox. Not sure how concerned they should be about the PSVR 2 being wireless though.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,750 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    pyroth309 said:
    Yea, streaming is going to happen at some point. Even on PS4/Xbox, more people are downloading than buying boxes now. It's only a matter of time.

    Curious to see what Microsoft does now. Are they still going to go for the performance edge like the Xbox One X? Ideally for me is they release a new generation of WMR and allow it to work on the new Xbox. Not sure how concerned they should be about the PSVR 2 being wireless though.

    Exciting if Sony can get both the HMD and the controllers right for PS5. If they do deliver a solution not too far from let's just say Rift-S, then I'll contact Sony immediately with my new top secret ideas for promoting the PS5  B)

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,115 Valuable Player
    Unfortunately, given their previous track record with non-console hardware (Kinect and HoloLens) I'm not getting my hopes up for the Xbox VR being any good.

    They seem to have done okay with the WVR headsets but even then the tracking is poor. I'd put good money on them fucking things up somewhere like they normally do.

    As for PSVR we'll have to wait and see. They need to sort out their motion controls and tracking, even if it means that previous games and apps aren't compatible with PSVR 2.

    If both platform holders have DECENT VR and they're supported with decent games at launch then we may see mainstream gamers getting into VR which means we may see big name franchises coming to VR in the not too distant future...














    ...but it wouldn't surprise me if both of them fuck it up somehow :(
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,709 Valuable Player
    @snowdog- Sony hasn't messed up with their current VR headset and I don't expect them to mess up with PS VR2. In-fact, I think it's Sony and not Oculus that will bring more people to VR, as it has shown with it's first VR offering by selling 4 million plus headsets. 

    All of this will help Oculus and other VR companies make a successes of VR, so everyone wins in the end.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    snowdog said:

    They seem to have done okay with the WVR headsets but even then the tracking is poor. I'd put good money on them fucking things up somewhere like they normally do.

    Being completely objective as I own Rift, Odyssey+ and PSVR. I'd place WMR tracking inbetween. It's not as bad as PSVR and not as good as Rift. The biggest problem with WMR was the perception of it being subpar when in reality it works pretty well for more games than PSVR tracking does. Would be a good idea to release a new version that has 4 or more cameras and make it work on the new Xbox to me. Cover two markets with a single product. 
Sign In or Register to comment.