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Which VR HMD will you buy next? - Rift S - Valve Index - Quest etc

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  • SpiceLife72SpiceLife72 Posts: 154
    Art3mis
    Valve Index
    I will wait for actual reviews.  But it looks like either Rift S or Valve Index.  I sold my Rift to my nephew at the beginning of the year and have been looking forward to new headsets.  I can see the Index being rather expensive.
  • FSX76FSX76 Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    Quest & Valve Index
    kevinw729 said:
    FSX76 said:
    .....
    Hi Kevin,

    Thanks for this @FSX76 - I am not sure that this system is devised from their Standalone Daydream project, as I think Samsung pulled out of the Google link?

    I first saw a early GearVR standalone prototype at the end of 2016 when the Samsung / Oculus partnership was still strong  (and wondered why it never saw the light of day). Now that the relationship has been "redefined", I think they have dusted off the old GearVR concept and added more power and 6DoF (with controllers) to be a Quest-beater.

    Samsung's access to greater manufacturing clout, the new OLED screens, the ability to use the SD855 and the previous GearVR recognition, places this in a strong position. Placing more pressure on Quest to come out of the starting gate hot with strong marketing in order to establish any kind of lead.

    Edit - Also lets not forget the new Pico Standalone announcement made last week with the Pico Neo 2, that includes the SD845 - again substantively more powerful than the SD835a - https://uploadvr.com/pico-neo-2/

    The Standalone scene is going to be crowded, lets hope there is a strong front runner to establish the scene so game developers can get on board.
    OK, thanks for sharing your opinion / knowledge.

    I agree with regard to the Standalone scene, this will be really interesting to see -> hopefully good times ahead.

    Have a nice day.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,643 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    I will wait for actual reviews.  But it looks like either Rift S or Valve Index.  I sold my Rift to my nephew at the beginning of the year and have been looking forward to new headsets.  I can see the Index being rather expensive.

    It's going to be interesting to see what they do with the price of these things. I suspect they've been seeing a drop in software sales since the Rift, WVR and HTC headsets have their own stores and are releasing this headset to drive more traffic to Steam. If this is so they'll need to have this thing competitively priced, anything over a grand and I think they'll struggle to sell that many.

    It doesn't take a genius to work out that $600 was the price point where sales of both the Rift and the Vive got traction. I'll certainly be out of the running for getting one if it costs more than 600 quid and I'm sure I won't be alone.

    Unfortunately I can see it costing around a grand and having the hardware flop. There's a good reason why Acer have priced the Reverb at 600 smackeroonies.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • cigaremoodscigaremoods Posts: 287
    Nexus 6
    Valve Index
    Why did the announcements made on the RIFT S not disappoint?

    List below but without hierarchy because all have for me a reason to be disappointed.

    No headphones worthy of the name, add a helmet is a real hassle I tested on the WMR helmets I was stuck with the wire of the headphones, impossible to find a good solution for the wire does not gene me not.

    The strap tightens with the big wheel behind, I tested it with the helmet Lenovo it's very unpleasant especially if you want to rest your head on the backrest of your rifle, with its protruding it breaks your neck when you rest your head on the folder. In addition, you have a very uncomfortable head shake. The current Rift straps may not be great, but the new straps have nothing special.

    Single screen !! LCD instead of two OLEDs. I tried both, for me you can say what you want, personally I see very clearly the difference in image quality between the two and I do not think Oculus will play innovation on this point and therefore the quality will be the same as that encountered on other LCD headsets (at 1440). Like cooling down !!!
    the electronic IPD, I tested on the WMR helmets, I never noticed a difference, so let's see if on the Oculus Rift S it becomes really effective.

    I have not fully understood how the levers will be used, recognized by the cameras also they need a Bluetooth connection as on the WMR helmets? Because if there is need for a BT connection, you can not use a BT audio headset to avoid the bulky wire.

    Another small detail, we must leave the light on in the room, already that we consume a lot with the computer to operate a headset, now it takes more light. Bravo for the environment and the energy bill.

    A priori all these disadvantages do not seem present on the Valve
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,663 Valuable Player
    Valve Index
    Welcome to Oculus 2019.
    >:)
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,870 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    snowdog said:
    It doesn't take a genius to work out that $600 was the price point where sales of both the Rift and the Vive got traction. I'll certainly be out of the running for getting one if it costs more than 600 quid and I'm sure I won't be alone.
    Both headsets were the same though - if a product offers basically the same stuff - then it will just come down to price. If two products offer something totally different -  the differences then is compare to the price difference. Witch is what we saw when everyone compare the Pro to OG Vive or CV1. With that said - I really think it just comes down to features too and what software it'll support.

    Agree though - anything above 800-600 is going to be seen as too costly, unless they come out with some major new feature, and therefor wont sell well like we saw with the HTC Vive Pro.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    edited April 2019
    Quest & Valve Index
    I honestly think the sweet selling point for HMD's eventually has to be £300-£400, realistically that's where they all need to get to eventually for mass market adoption like consoles.

    Obviously I expect Valve Index to come out costing more because it's new, so maybe £600 - £800 is realistic, maybe that's what we can expect but it would be nice if they could get it down to £500-£600 by any means necessary, even if that means taking a loss in the short time. Surely it would be better to sell 2-3 million HMD's at £500 then only selling 200,000 at £800.

    If I was speaking with Gabe and he said to me "look mate, we have to sell it at £1000, we've got no choice", I'd be like, "come on mate, we're only regular folk, lets be reasonable here!" And then we'd sit down with a Cadburys creme egg and we'd chat about the good old days playing cs 1.3, Doom, Quake and Unreal Tournament, and then we'd discuss how Half Life 3 is developing and I'd say "seriously mate, bring Portal 3 to VR". And after this conversation I'm sure I could get the price knocked down to £500, I just need half an hour with him to work some magic! lol

    £500 would be so sexy, but I'm nervous about weather or not this is going to happen.  :s:#:/
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,523 Volunteer Moderator
    Quest
    I agree; to gain any traction, Valve really needs to bring the Index out in the 500 to 600 range. Any higher, and it had better have some major game-changing new feature. 
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  • SandcrackaSandcracka Posts: 89
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited April 2019
    Valve Index
    nalex66 said:
    I agree; to gain any traction, Valve really needs to bring the Index out in the 500 to 600 range. Any higher, and it had better have some major game-changing new feature. 

     I think they are banking on the knuckles to be that game-changing feature.
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 499
    Trinity
    Quest & Rift S
    nalex66 said:
    I agree; to gain any traction, Valve really needs to bring the Index out in the 500 to 600 range. Any higher, and it had better have some major game-changing new feature. 

     I think they are banking on the knuckles to be that game-changing feature.
    Knuckles are like an improved version of Touch. More similar than they are different.

    Valve will have to do more than Knuckles to justify a 800+ price point (imo).
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,523 Volunteer Moderator
    Quest
    nalex66 said:
    I agree; to gain any traction, Valve really needs to bring the Index out in the 500 to 600 range. Any higher, and it had better have some major game-changing new feature. 

     I think they are banking on the knuckles to be that game-changing feature.
    For Vive owners, maybe, but to me it just seems like parity with Touch. Anyway, that doesn't sell the headset, since the controllers can be bought separately and used with any SteamVR headset.

    I meant that the Index HMD needs to bring something new to the table to command a price significantly higher than Rift or Vive. Some of the rumoured features (like wide FOV, high-res screens, or eye-tracking and foveated rendering) might be worth upgrading for at the right price. I hope, when they reveal the specs on May 1, that they blow us away and exceed expectations. It would be great to have a serious competitor shake things up with some new innovations.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,870 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    Agree- if Index is just a cheaper Vive Pro - I don't think anyone will buy it if it is still in the 800$+ range. They will need to drop the price hard if that is the case. On the other hand, if Index does indeed have some secret spice to it - then the price differences will be compare at that point. If the extra features don't match up to the price - then you will see some backlash or no one buying the headset for sure.

    Just having better lenses for example doesn't sound like it be worth a price hike - on the other hand - if these lenses remove the need to render higher than the headset for lens warping and a more 1:1 - that might be worth the price hike for the performance reasons. Then again - if the cost to have this feature in the upper 400+ range I rather spend the money on a better GPU or higher end vr hmd spec headset. This is just an example - until we know more it'll be hard really to compare rumors to what it really will have.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,523 Volunteer Moderator
    Quest
    That’s the boat I’m in too. I’m thoroughly invested in the Oculus ecosystem, and I would prefer to stick with Oculus hardware, but since Oculus has no PCVR hardware on the horizon that is suitable for me (high IPD), I might be interested in the Index if it offers attractive features at a decent price. If not, then I just hope my CV1 holds up for a few more years. 
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  • DilipDilip Posts: 256
    Nexus 6
    Undecided - Need more details
    kevinw729 said:

    Edit - Also lets not forget the new Pico Standalone announcement made last week with the Pico Neo 2, that includes the SD845 - again substantively more powerful than the SD835a - https://uploadvr.com/pico-neo-2/
    One can find in my older posts. Even on day quest was announced i was of opinion it must be updated to SD845 as stand alone headset are fixed with SoC and if we are looking for 1/2 year life period by the time mobile chips will be leaps ahead so its good idea to use best available (SD855) or second best(SD845) but not the third best (SD835). Though if SD835 in quest in some way over clocked and better cooled to perform on par with SD845 while in phone i still believe in same cooling setup SD845 can perform even better. ... lets see what future holds.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,239 Valuable Player
    Dilip said:
    ....
    One can find in my older posts. Even on day quest was announced i was of opinion it must be updated to SD845 as stand alone headset are fixed with SoC and if we are looking for 1/2 year life period by the time mobile chips will be leaps ahead so its good idea to use best available (SD855) or second best(SD845) but not the third best (SD835). Though if SD835 in quest in some way over clocked and better cooled to perform on par with SD845 while in phone i still believe in same cooling setup SD845 can perform even better. ... lets see what future holds.

    I agree that the "let see what it can achieve" axium is a good one - I have been lucky enough to try the Quest, and was surprised how hard the dev teams have converted the PC content down to the system - I think SuperHotVR will be one of those "must have" games on the system, but I would also point to the same game on the new Samsung GearVR Standalone running the SD855 and say that the decision to go with the older SD may come round to prove an issues.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,643 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    Dilip said:
    kevinw729 said:

    Edit - Also lets not forget the new Pico Standalone announcement made last week with the Pico Neo 2, that includes the SD845 - again substantively more powerful than the SD835a - https://uploadvr.com/pico-neo-2/
    One can find in my older posts. Even on day quest was announced i was of opinion it must be updated to SD845 as stand alone headset are fixed with SoC and if we are looking for 1/2 year life period by the time mobile chips will be leaps ahead so its good idea to use best available (SD855) or second best(SD845) but not the third best (SD835). Though if SD835 in quest in some way over clocked and better cooled to perform on par with SD845 while in phone i still believe in same cooling setup SD845 can perform even better. ... lets see what future holds.

    The 835 in the Quest is indeed overclocked. They've managed to do this thanks to the cooling system in the headset, I think Carmack confirmed this a while ago.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,870 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    snowdog said:

    The 835 in the Quest is indeed over locked. They've managed to do this thanks to the cooling system in the headset, I think Carmack confirmed this a while ago.
    Also note that with any overclock - the chip still has to support such speed - so at best - I assume they only got maybe back another 10-15% performance boost - witch translates to 5 -15 frames. That be pretty modest for an over clock consider most are around less than 10%. What I mean is at best the 835 would be closer to the 845 - but oc alone would not be a replacement for 845 chip so we can guess about what the Quest performance will be. Kind of neat:)

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12420/snapdragon-845-performance-preview/4
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,239 Valuable Player
    I do not want to get too hung up on the processor - I was alluding originally to the decision to go with the older design, but I know the team involved at Oculus Texas are some of the smartest people in the room regarding squeezing performance. As many of the posts have said over the last few comments - the reality is its all about content, and if the other games live up to the demos I have seen, then I think the issue is more to do with how they sell / promote the system than if its performance is hindered by a older processor.
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    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,663 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Valve Index
    So I got the Odyssey+ WMR headset I ordered on the sale. It's kind of a mixed bag. The screen looks awesome. Practically no SDE (there is a slight pattern, but you really have to look). Everything looks detailed, even in the background. So that part is good. Headset is relatively comfortable, I'm a fan on PSVR style headsets.

    But the tracking is really wonky. I mean, it would have been okay if not for the glitches. Sometimes I would randomly get stuck in the floor (and it's not easy to recenter). Then one time the screen started spinning and I became stuck about 20 feet in the air upside-down, for no reason whatsoever. Plus I was getting loud audio static noise in the headphones intermittently.

    Pretty sad, because I did really want to like it. And this was supposed to be the premium model. I think I'll probably just sell it and wait to see what happens with Rift S.
    Tracking issues would be a huge deal breaker for me, no way could I put up with the occasional glitches in tracking, not after having the Rift and the awesome tracking I get with it.
    That will be a concern for me with a Rift S.
    And one reason I am also strongly looking at the Valve Index. Waiting to see full spec reveal though.

    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,727 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details

    So I got the Odyssey+ WMR headset I ordered on the sale. It's kind of a mixed bag. The screen looks awesome. Practically no SDE (there is a slight pattern, but you really have to look). Everything looks detailed, even in the background. So that part is good. Headset is relatively comfortable, I'm a fan of PSVR style headsets.

    But the tracking is really wonky. I mean, it would have been okay if not for the glitches. Sometimes I would randomly get stuck in the floor (and it's not easy to recenter). Then one time the screen started spinning and I became stuck about 20 feet in the air upside-down, for no reason whatsoever. Plus I was getting loud audio static noise in the headphones intermittently.

    Pretty sad, because I did really want to like it. And this was supposed to be the premium model. I think I'll probably just sell it and wait to see what happens with Rift S.
    If you're in an empty room with no objects, the headset will have nothing to track and get lost. Also works better if the room is evenly lit. I would run through setup again if that's not the case.

    The audio blast you're getting is from USB and could also be some of your tracking problems. If you're using an extension, You pretty much need a powered USB hub if you're using a cable longer than 6 feet. Try it with no extensions and see how it goes. I've been playing my Odyssey most of the day today, it works great for me. Loss of tracking outside of the camera will always be a problem for WMR though. You only get about roughly 2 seconds of predictive tracking before they freeze and go to 3dof.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    WMR
    You might be right about the extension cable. When I plug in direct to the computer it seems to be working. Played about 30 minutes and it was fine (one point it did briefly lose one of the hands, but it recovered).
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,727 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    You might be right about the extension cable. When I plug in direct to the computer it seems to be working. Played about 30 minutes and it was fine (one point it did briefly lose one of the hands, but it recovered).
    Yea losing hand tracking here and there when they leave the camera (which is front facing) is just part of WMR. Get in the habit of looking toward your hands so the cameras can see them. If they stop tracking bring the controller back in front of you. It is what it is but at least the visuals are sweet lol.

    Also, this is what I'm using at the moment. I have a 10 foot extension going into my USB hub and then a 6 foot to my headset cable. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DQFGH80/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Some USB cards though will only work with two 6 footers. It's kind of trial and error.

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,424 Valuable Player
    Valve Index
    Do you think you could use knuckles with the Odyssey, I saw it being used with the rift. 

    I presume that would be steam only games.

  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 499
    Trinity
    Quest & Rift S
    ^^^
    You need Lighthouses.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,870 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    Do you think you could use knuckles with the Odyssey, I saw it being used with the rift. 

    I presume that would be steam only games.

    Yes, using the SteamVR software in theory you could combine whatever headset with their controllers. Granted, you would need both tracking methods going/working for it to really work. With Odyssey - you would have WMR tracking so nothing extra needed there - but the controllers would require lighthouse.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,424 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Valve Index
    I guess that would depend on the pricing of a knuckles lighthouse bundle then.

    See on ebay a few Vive for spares going cheap. If it had broken headset but controllers and V1 lighthouses could be a cheap option.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,727 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    I guess that would depend on the pricing of a knuckles lighthouse bundle then.

    See on ebay a few Vive for spares going cheap. If it had broken headset but controllers and V1 lighthouses could be a cheap option.
    Yea that's probably what route I'm going to go if the Index isn't good enough. Reverb with lighthouses and Knuckles.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,663 Valuable Player
    Valve Index
    pyroth309 said:
    I guess that would depend on the pricing of a knuckles lighthouse bundle then.

    See on ebay a few Vive for spares going cheap. If it had broken headset but controllers and V1 lighthouses could be a cheap option.
    Yea that's probably what route I'm going to go if the Index isn't good enough. Reverb with lighthouses and Knuckles.
    Interesting combo I would not have though of, will definitely be keeping in mind. My eye is on the Index but that certainly sounds like a great alternative plan.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
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