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Which VR HMD will you buy next? - Rift S - Valve Index - Quest etc

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,857 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    I guess that would depend on the pricing of a knuckles lighthouse bundle then.

    See on ebay a few Vive for spares going cheap. If it had broken headset but controllers and V1 lighthouses could be a cheap option.
    I wanna say though - the new lighthouse 2.0 is like a 3rd of the price - or around 65$ a lighthouse - Most of the US ebay seems to be around 135-55$ (pair or single). I guess you could save a few dollars - but over all looks like it'll be about the same price.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,725 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    dburne said:
    pyroth309 said:
    I guess that would depend on the pricing of a knuckles lighthouse bundle then.

    See on ebay a few Vive for spares going cheap. If it had broken headset but controllers and V1 lighthouses could be a cheap option.
    Yea that's probably what route I'm going to go if the Index isn't good enough. Reverb with lighthouses and Knuckles.
    Interesting combo I would not have though of, will definitely be keeping in mind. My eye is on the Index but that certainly sounds like a great alternative plan.
    Using the knuckles with WMR does restrict you to steam VR, but I'm in there 100% of the time anyway lately lol. I have Viveport and all of the games I've tried are on SteamVR anyway. I use the SteamVR Re-vive so I'm still playing rift games through SteamVR. It's not optimal performancewise but Remixed has too many issues.

    Meant to post this comment over here, posted it in other thread not realizing. Been a long night.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    edited April 2019
    Quest & Valve Index
    pyroth309 said:
    if the Index isn't good enough. 

    Index not good enough? For me, if the rumors are true with what we know so far, the Index will be the first VR HMD to be perfect in every way. Perfect tracking, perfect visuals, large FOV at 135° and great VR hand controllers. I really can't see anything beating this package until CV2 arrives.

    And as far as I'm concerned there's only really two realistic options for buyers in the PCVR market. Until other companies catch up. Rift S & Valve Index are the best choices.. There's dozens of other HMD's on the market from many different companies but they all have too many cons and too many floors. Just like PSVR has so many floors. None of them are good enough to compete. Rift S and Valve Index will be the best HMD's for a long time to come.

    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,725 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    pyroth309 said:
    if the Index isn't good enough. 

    Index not good enough? For me, if the rumors are true with what we know so far, the Index will be the first VR HMD to be perfect in every way. Perfect tracking, perfect visuals, large FOV at 135° and great VR hand controllers. I really can't see anything beating this package until CV2 arrives.

    And as far as I'm concerned there's only really two realistic options for buyers in the PCVR market. Until other companies catch up. Rift S & Valve Index are the best choices.. There's dozens of other HMD's on the market from many different companies but they all have too many cons and too many floors. Just like PSVR has so many floors. None of them are good enough to compete. Rift S and Valve Index will be the best HMD's for a long time to come.

    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo.
    There's a two letter word that is at the front of my sentence that's key. IF. Rumors are just that until confirmed. Odds are I'm going to end up with Index but if the resolution is lower than I want, my backup plan is the Reverb. Has been since they announced the Index lol. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,235 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
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  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    Quest & Valve Index
    Ok fair enough but I just see so many people talking about going HP, Samsung, WMR, etc and I just think to myself what are they thinking. :/
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    edited April 2019
    Quest & Valve Index
    For me there is no 50% with VR, there's only true VR or half baked VR and I see people saying they're going to go for half baked all so often and I've no idea what they're thinking. I honestly believe the majority of people who buy into the hype of lower specced VR HMD's are going to feel greatly disappointed, underwhelmed and cheated out of their money.

    Any HMD that comes out with sub par tracking (two cameras on the front) isn't worth considering imo and any HMD without real VR controllers such as Touch/knuckles also isn't worth considering imo. Without tracking and hands you have nothing. 

    We all talk about other HMD's so often on these forums, even myself but lets remember where we're, this is Oculus forums, and Oculus gave us our Rift's and the Rift is still pretty much the best option today, we've all been spoilt with fantastic VR these last few years, I think if people were more patient they would wait for Valve Index or Rift CV2.

    There's no point going from Rift to any WMR hmd or anything else right now as your just going to get bad tracking and bad hand controls. 

    The way I see it VR technology is like a triangle, in each corner you have Tracking/HMD/Hands, you need all three, you take one piece away and the whole thing just collapses.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,725 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    Ok fair enough but I just see so many people talking about going HP, Samsung, WMR, etc and I just think to myself what are they thinking. :/
    We are all just looking at options, I think most posting about those headsets are waiting to see what the Index actually has and at what pricepoint it comes at. I was just saying if for some reason the Index is a no go, which I don't think is likely, I plan to rock the Reverb with lighthouse tracking as the next best option.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    Quest & Valve Index
    Yeah I get what your saying, Maybe I shouldn't of quoted you then, maybe I should of quoted one of the other post in this thread but I just wanted to express my opinion on this as I feel strongly that all those other options are sub par with way too many compromises.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,725 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    For me there is no 50% with VR, there's only true VR or half baked VR and I see people saying they're going to go for half baked all so often and I've no idea what they're thinking. I honestly believe the majority of people who buy into the hype of lower specced VR HMD's are going to feel greatly disappointed, underwhelmed and cheated out of their money.

    Any HMD that comes out with sub par tracking (two cameras on the front) isn't worth considering imo and any HMD without real VR controllers such as Touch/knuckles also isn't worth considering imo. Without tracking and hands you have nothing. 

    We all talk about other HMD's so often on these forums, even myself but lets remember where we're, this is Oculus forums, and Oculus gave us our Rift's and the Rift is still pretty much the best option today, we've all been spoilt with fantastic VR these last few years, I think if people were more patient they would wait for Valve Index or Rift CV2.

    There's no point going from Rift to any WMR hmd or anything else right now as your just going to get bad tracking and bad hand controls. 

    The way I see it VR technology is like a triangle, in each corner you have Tracking/HMD/Hands, you need all three, you take one piece away and the whole thing just collapses.
    You seemed to have missed the part where we were talking about using Knuckles and lighthouse tracking with WMR and not the 2 camera tracking.
    Secondly, there's a lot of different reasons and preferences people buy a particularVR headset. If all you care about is cockpit and gamepad games, then WMR is going to hands down be better than Rift because of the increased clarity and resolution. I'd also argue that it's better for FPS games and anything where your hands spend most of their time in the same direction as the front of the headset.
    And thirdly, I don't even use my CV1 anymore because the screen is so bad and I'm tired of fighting USB. I have zero regrets with my O+ and have enjoyed the hell out of it for the last 6+ months.

    Lastly, this is the general forum which is where it's ok to talk about everything VR.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,857 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    pyroth309 said:
    Ok fair enough but I just see so many people talking about going HP, Samsung, WMR, etc and I just think to myself what are they thinking. :/
    We are all just looking at options, I think most posting about those headsets are waiting to see what the Index actually has and at what pricepoint it comes at. I was just saying if for some reason the Index is a no go, which I don't think is likely, I plan to rock the Reverb with lighthouse tracking as the next best option.
    I am doing the same. I want to see what the Index really offers. If res is the same as the Vive Pro over a 135 FOV - I fear it wont as good as the Rift S trade offs in different ways. At the end of the day - even if the Index is better - it does start with a much higher cost than the Rift S - so whatever it really comes with will have to be better value to allow for the higher price cost. Any other rumor so far just seems like icing on the cake.

    So far - I would say it be worth - but until we really see and know more - I think I will hold off saying one is better or worst if I can. Backup plan is to get the HP version as that seems like it would match res wise to what I want in terms of getting VR to be my 2nd monitor. That PPD is amazing :o
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,635 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    kevinw729 said:
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 

    If you're referring to my good self in this post you're wrong. If the Valve Index has decent lenses and the full bundle is £599 I'll be quite happy to give them my money...

    ...but it still is NOT going to stop me from (quite correctly) criticising them for not having Half Life 2 VR available on day one of the Rift and Vive launching (or even since!!!), criticising them for not being able to or willing to count to three and most importantly criticising them for not curating their store.

    Until they address those three points then I'll continue to criticise them, continue to cut them out of my Steam purchases by buying from third party sites and continue to buy my games from the Oculus Store whenever possible, even if it means I need to pay a little extra.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 1,190
    Wintermute
    kevinw729 said:
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 
    Maybe those who have invested a goodly sum in Oculus software?

    I have no such loyalty, the Rift is very good but if I feel the need to change to another brand (and lose access to Oculus exclusive software) it would have been a deliberate decision :)
    PC info: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, MSI MPG X570 Edge, 16GB Tforce Pro Dark DDR4 3200, KFA2 RTX 2080 Super, Samsung 870 Pro M.2, 2x 240GB SSD, 3TB WD Green HDD & 4 TB Seagate Barracuda HDD, Antec Modular 750w PSU, custom watercooling loop. (Win 10 Pro & Opensuse Leap 15.1 Linux) 32" AOC 4K Monitor.
    Rift S
    Laptop: Aorus X5 V6-CF1 (I7-6820HK, GTX 1070, 2* 256GB M.2 NVME, 1TB 7200 HDD)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,857 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    I'm not a big steam fan my self either. They did nothing wrong to me - but I just don't like feeding the super big guys. Sometimes I do go out of my way to support the little guy just because I like to see computation. I used to buy AMD stuff all the time. I did have to switch to Intel for the CPU side of things for a little while, but the new Ryzen already have me itching back to them:) 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,857 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    RattyUK said:
    Maybe those who have invested a goodly sum in Oculus software?

    I have no such loyalty, the Rift is very good but if I feel the need to change to another brand (and lose access to Oculus exclusive software) it would have been a deliberate decision :)
    You never really loose access to it - they are just a software store after all - with that said - it does suck having to go over a 3rd party program to make it work - but you can't say you lost access to it.

    Hopefully though openVR will change that and be the go to 3rd party bake in layer and we never have to deal with that stuff again. Then it just comes down to - what store you want to support to the titles that want to sell on their store. Either way really - its a win win for the customer - its just more of a "We are cooler because we have this game on our store".
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    Quest & Valve Index
    kevinw729 said:
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 

    I see what you mean. Personally I love my Rift but I'm also happy to buy Valve Index as well.

    I just hope it comes bundled with Portal 3/Half Life 3 as well.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,635 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    kevinw729 said:
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 

    I see what you mean. Personally I love my Rift but I'm also happy to buy Valve Index as well.

    I just hope it comes bundled with Portal 3/Half Life 3 as well.

    I think we're all the same with regards to competing VR headsets. If a headset is good enough and not at a ridiculous price we'll all jump on it. Not sure where @kevinw729 is coming from tbh. None of us here have a blind allegiance to Oculus and their hardware - we've bought a Rift because it was the best headset out of the two available at the time.

    And whilst it would be GREAT to see another Half Life, Left 4 Dead or Portal game I can't see it happening. Expect three collections of tech demos like The Lab and none of us will end up getting disappointed. They MAY surprise everyone but considering that Valve are a bunch of see you next Tuesdays and have been for YEARS I wouldn't hold your breath lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,235 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    I was not referring to any one in-particular with my comment - but if the cap fits....

    The comment about those that have invested a good sum in OculusVR software is a very fair point - that breeds more than a loyalty but a need to see some kind of return on their investment, as those that have purchased their extensive Constellation/Touch setup and lived through all the issues (or been lucky!) 

    We are all just hoping - hoping it comes with Knuckles working, hoping it comes with a SteamVR account, and just comes with a good visual and audio experience, without God-Rays, bad blacks or QA issues. We will have to wait two weeks for an answer of some kind, and who knows this also may be on "Valve-time!"
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,635 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    My point, which you seem to have missed, is that the cap doesn't fit ANYONE here. We're all considering the Valve Index if the specs, lenses, price and PC requirements are right. NONE of us have a blind loyalty to Oculus. You're post is yet another thinly veiled dig at certain members of this forum.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,235 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    snowdog said:
    My point, which you seem to have missed, is that the cap doesn't fit ANYONE here. We're all considering the Valve Index if the specs, lenses, price and PC requirements are right. NONE of us have a blind loyalty to Oculus. You're post is yet another thinly veiled dig at certain members of this forum.

    Again a personal attack @snowdog, especially when my comment referred to the VR community and not to one particular forum or group. I am glad you can speak for everyone, but I do hope that most of the posters here are open minded enough - please keep your "thinly veiled digs" too yourself. 
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,635 Valuable Player
    Undecided - Need more details
    Calling your personal attack a personal attack isn't a personal attack. You know full well who your thinly veiled dig was aimed at. You can try and back pedal all you want, we all know what it was and who it was aimed at.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,235 Valuable Player
    Okay @snowdog - listened to your point of view. I corrected you again that it was not aimed at you, no backpedalling, not my style - if you want to take it on, and try and derail the discussion, great, but if you have a serious point to be made, the moderator is always there for you!

    Now trying to get this back on topic.

    I wonder with Valve Index if they could lock users in with a platform that supports a special SteamVR ecosystem and if this will be the first headset that will be lead by the games and not by the hardware specs?

    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Rift S
    I have a strong loyalty to Oculus, but that's because they've earned it and continue to earn it. IF they did something to seriously disappoint me  (either in terms of business or ethics) that loyalty could change.

    Also, up until a year or so ago I was as much of a Steam-addict as anyone else.  It wasn't my love of Oculus that turned me against them, it was the horrible, unethical things that Gabe Newell and Valve were doing, and willfully allowing to happen on their platform. It was also the realization that their irresponsible, parasitic business model and the monopoly they've built are harming the PC gaming industry.

    In fact, I have positive opinions of Sony and PSVR, and I'd love to see other companies get into the VR industry, and I don't think it's "unfair" when any of those companies have exclusives that aren't available on Oculus Home.  I have a somewhat positive opinion of the HP Reverb  (in that I acknowledge it sounds great for very specific uses)  though I find it annoying that people harshly criticize the Rift-S for minor design tradeoffs but act like the Reverb is flawless.  Bit of a double standard there, isn't it?

    Oh, and I feel sorry for HTC, and I'm quietly rooting for them to fully distance themselves from Valve (Viveport requires you to install both Steam and SteamVR to use it)  and make a comeback.

    So yeah, it's really only Valve that I hate.  But you shouldn't have to be a Valve-hater to realize you can't trust any VR system they put out, after how they mishandled and neglected the Vive and every other piece of hardware they've been involved with.  I dare say you'd have to be extremely loyal to the Valve brand to even consider buying an Index until they've proven they'll support it properly after release.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,235 Valuable Player
    CrashFu said:
    .....
    So yeah, it's really only Valve that I hate.  But you shouldn't have to be a Valve-hater to realize you can't trust any VR system they put out, after how they mishandled and neglected the Vive and every other piece of hardware they've been involved with.  I dare say you'd have to be extremely loyal to the Valve brand to even consider buying an Index until they've proven they'll support it properly after release.

    Thanks for that cogent and measured reply, interesting perspective on Valve, and also why you have the view you have. I never thought of the issues with Steam, and how they should impact my interest in utilising the Index, but have to say my dealings with Valve have seen good and bad times. 
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,857 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    CrashFu said:
    It was also the realization that their irresponsible, parasitic business model and the monopoly they've built are harming the PC gaming industry.

    In fact, I have positive opinions of Sony and PSVR, and I'd love to see other companies get into the VR
    EErrrmmm - No offense - Sony and MS are the same in ways too you know. I mean they created a system design to lock customers in and then charge high rates on LC to create games on their platform. In lots of ways - it has harm a lot of things as well. Granted - the pay wall helps remove a bunch of crap - but it still exist and they do activity (lots of news on it) tell software creators not to make the game look better on PC and in lots of ways-  focus more on the console to make it look better. Windows is also pushing the Window store hard. My job is find ways to lock down OSes - but they in fact remove the ability to turn off the store. They even went as far as to make the window store unclosable in some cases from commands it's bad. As for a company to come out from left field it would be either Acer (StarVR), HP, LV, or Samsung, but it be nice if they could create something that would go toe to toe with the main store companies if they could find away to make it work.

    As for VR related growth - sure! I would love if MS would partner with Oculus from their deals in the past. It would be soo amazing for the end customer if you could plug your Rift S in and call it good. I mean it's totally possible for that to happen as far as Rift S removing the senors now. MS is also pushing both platforms a bit more together as well just a bit. I think so they can get more double sells on software:) but hey - give the customer what they want, right? 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,429 Valuable Player
    Quest
    kevinw729 said:
    SkScotchegg said:
    .....
    Index not good enough? 
    .....
    Everything else is simply not in the same league imo. All other HMD's have too many compromises/floors/cons compared to Rift S/Valve Index.

    Yeah, it does seem weird - but you have to understand the history and there am some in the VR community that are emotionally invested in OculusVR and also have a resentment against Valve. No matter what they see from Index, it will never be any good - a same that the VR community was encouraged by some to become so tribal. 

    I don't think that you can speak for the VR Community as a whole. I know that when I arrived at this community, it was VERY Tribal. But on the opposite end of that spectrum, where Oculus was treated poorly and Rift owners even worse. It was so bad that early adopters tried to create single Megathreads just to organize Rift discussion a midst all the Pro-Vive spam.

    For anyone interested in seeing how bad it got here with the Anti-Oculus sentiment, this thread gives a good example:

    Lastly, there has been a very strong "tribal" mindset that remains on the forum to this day, regarding Commercial vs Consumer. And we all know who fuels the "resentment against Consumers"
    :o
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,429 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Quest
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    My point, which you seem to have missed, is that the cap doesn't fit ANYONE here. We're all considering the Valve Index if the specs, lenses, price and PC requirements are right. NONE of us have a blind loyalty to Oculus. You're post is yet another thinly veiled dig at certain members of this forum.

    Again a personal attack @snowdog, especially when my comment referred to the VR community and not to one particular forum or group. I am glad you can speak for everyone, but I do hope that most of the posters here are open minded enough - please keep your "thinly veiled digs" too yourself. 
    Extreme pot kettle here.  You literally derailed this conversation by taking a dig at the entire forum, and then bragging about it with comments like , "I was not referring to any one in-particular with my comment - but if the cap fits...."

    And you actually have the nerve to invoke the mods?
    " if you have a serious point to be made, the moderator is always there for you!"

    I think that it is long overdue for the Moderators to put you in a time out to send the message that all of your thinly veiled baiting has run its course.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,725 Valuable Player
    edited April 2019
    Undecided - Need more details
    My main issue with Valve is their flat management structure which continuously leads to "Valve time" and indecisiveness. They were stagnant for far too long instead of driving PC gaming forward like Sony does for PlayStation. Other than that, I don't have many issues. I wish they had some legit competition but that's too long of a discussion and It's being discussed more than enough elsewhere regarding Epic.

    That being said, I enjoy Steam for the most part.  I like that they are as hands off as they can be with software. I can make my own decisions about what is offensive or not or what I consider good or not. Studies show that violent video games do not lead to an increase in real-world violence. So if it's not breaking any laws it's good with me.  One man's garbage is another man's treasure has never been more true than in gaming. 

     I do however wish the search tools were a bit more powerful and intuitive to help with filtering through shovel ware and I hope the upcoming UI changes improve that.

    Their refund policy has allowed me to take chances on many games over the years that I thought looked interesting and I've found so many hidden gems that most people don't know exist and I wouldn't have found otherwise.

    As far as Valves hardware history sure they've not exactly set the world afire, but the steam controller and steam machine are still around. More importantly they're still being supported today despite steam machine being irrelevant and steam controller not being very popular. Valve has also been doing work behind scenes with getting Vulkan supported in Linux for steam machines. Here's an article from last year.

     https://www.pcmag.com/news/360230/valve-steam-machines-are-still-a-thing

    I look at each product individually and if the Index is good I'll buy it.  If anything Valve's history suggests they will still support it even if it sells terribly like their other hardware products.  :D
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,736 Volunteer Moderator
    WMR
    Having been on the end of a put down myself in the not too distant past I tend to agree that baiting members is getting a little too frequent here, so as this stands I gently remind you to politely stop @kevinw729 . Thanks
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

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