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Is an index preorder a suckers move? Maybe.

inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
edited May 2019 in General
Notice oculus allowed many more reviews (before preorders) some of which used rift s and quest for a long hands on. Say what you want any of you oculus bashers but they allowed that because they are proud of their products.Valve in my opinion knows it would have reduced preorders. Some movies aren't allowed previews for that reason. To buy the index without very lengthy use by reviewers would not be smart. Wait for launch. Reviews then decide.
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Comments

  • ParadoxAnomalyParadoxAnomaly Posts: 90
    Hiro Protagonist
    Demand will outstrip supply which ever way you look at it. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
    We don't know that yet. Also what matters are sales in the long term.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,328
    Project 2501
    It cost £919 for me here in the UK for the full bundle. I do really want Valve Index but I was gutted yesterday when I saw the price.

    I really want that 135° FOV and high resolution! But it's just so much money!
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,360 Valuable Player
    Demand will outstrip supply which ever way you look at it. 

    Only if Valve make very small amounts of stock available. They're going to have almost as much trouble shifting these as HTC has had with the Vive Pro.

    Their pricing has been pure madness. You can get a Quest and a Rift S and have plenty of money for games for the price of a Valve Index.

    And still no news or information about these three games that Valve are supposed to be working on.

    Wouldn't it have made more sense to give some information about at least ONE of those games alongside the announcement yesterday? To have one of these games available for the launch?

    Valve have really made a mess of this launch so far: a higher price than everyone expected (apart from my good self, I said it would be around a grand for the full bundle), base stations that are supposed to cost less to manufacture being available for £10 MORE than base stations for the Vive and no news of any software.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    Demand will outstrip supply which ever way you look at it. 

    So which VR Product(s) do you own? I asked you that in another thread and didn't get an answer. What is your VR Hardware history? Which VR Software Titles are your favorite?
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,188 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Demand will outstrip supply which ever way you look at it. 

    Only if Valve make very small amounts of stock available. They're going to have almost as much trouble shifting these as HTC has had with the Vive Pro.

    Their pricing has been pure madness. You can get a Quest and a Rift S and have plenty of money for games for the price of a Valve Index.

    And still no news or information about these three games that Valve are supposed to be working on.

    Wouldn't it have made more sense to give some information about at least ONE of those games alongside the announcement yesterday? To have one of these games available for the launch?

    Valve have really made a mess of this launch so far: a higher price than everyone expected (apart from my good self, I said it would be around a grand for the full bundle), base stations that are supposed to cost less to manufacture being available for £10 MORE than base stations for the Vive and no news of any software.
    They will probably get some decent sales initially from the PC-VR sim enthusiasts. Flight simmers, racing simmers, space simmers. There are a lot of these type that don't necessarily rely on some of the made for VR games. Many were hesitant on going with a company like Pimax, and were not that excited with Vive pro (folks like myself).

    So the Valve Index is getting some serious attention in the above areas, although the price point for those that do not already have base stations or controllers is tough for many to swallow.
    I would be among the latter, so have already pre-ordered a Rift S and may not make up my mind on an Index until after using the Rift S and see how I like it in my sim games.



    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    @dburne - Valve index isn't such a massive jump in resolution from the Rift -S, so why would Sim enthusiasts go for it and not just choose the cheaper option which is the Rift -S? Matt Wagner seems to think Rift -S looks great in DCS World.

    I'm sure you have seen this link already in these forums. 

    https://uploadvr.com/dcs-developer-on-oculus-rift-s-cockpit-resolution-i-can-read-everything/
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @RedRizla - I think SIM Enthusiasts are going for Reverb. Seems the best overall visuals available from an HMD. And due to the nature of SIMS, the fact that it uses 2-front-facing cameras isn't much of an issue.

    However, one trend that seems to be popping up is that the Valve Index seems the smarter option over anything Pimax. Essentially, Valve just made Pimax 5k/8K look Super Derp.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    edited May 2019
     During all the hype yesterday twice I came across statements that Index had aweful godrays compared to the current market, but with all info coming out I cant seem to find it again.
     Really wonder if Valve have pulled yet another Steam controler move and will have to stockpile Indexes for years to come in the deepest of Area 51.
    Be good, die great !
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    But offcouse the best is yet to come:
    Just saying :lol:

    Be good, die great !
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,147 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    inovator said:
    Notice oculus allowed many more reviews (before preorders) some of which used rift s and quest for a long hands on. Say what you want any of you oculus bashers but they allowed that because they are proud of their products.Valve in my opinion knows it would have reduced preorders. Some movies aren't allowed previews for that reason. To buy the index without very lengthy use by reviewers would not be smart. Wait for launch. Reviews then decide.
    if you are interested in one , i suggest pre ordering then cancelling if you get cold feet due to reviews.  I hesitated with my CV1 and it ended up me waiting for months longer than i needed to!.
    IF all i was interested in was racing games and flight sims i would be going HP

    however i must admit for those who have the cash and the monster pc to run it i think the index is a safe bet to be the best complete VR package out there over all.
    The rift S however i think will sell much better.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
     During all the hype yesterday twice I came across statements that Index had aweful godrays compared to the current market, but with all info coming out I cant seem to find it again.
     Really wonder if Valve have pulled yet another Steam controler move and will have to stockpile Indexes for years to come in the deepest of Area 51.

    I read somewhere in these forums that it had godrays. I think it was @Mradr who pointed it out, but I don't know where he got this info from.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    KlodsBrik said:
     During all the hype yesterday twice I came across statements that Index had aweful godrays compared to the current market, but with all info coming out I cant seem to find it again.
     Really wonder if Valve have pulled yet another Steam controler move and will have to stockpile Indexes for years to come in the deepest of Area 51.

    Yep, this is becoming the next hot topic criticism against the Index:

    @Mradr this is what I mean when I say that we can't just look at specs alone to determine how good a hardware product is. There is typically nothing in VR Hardware specs that determine the final experience with things like SDE, God Rays, blurriness, distortion, and artifacts. That is why championing a hardware product purely on specs is both premature and theorycrafting.

    I will give an example of my own real-world experience with this. I recently tried the Vive Pro and while I did notice the increased FOV (as confirmed on the official specifications), I also noticed that it felt like I had "tunnel vision." Due to the design of the Vive HMD, it looks like you are staring through a long tunnel. Yes it's clear, yes it's a nice FOV, but the immersion factor went bye-bye when it felt like I was holding a pipe against my face...


    This is not an experience that can be depicted from mere "released specifications." And in fact, this is hardly an experience people were describing for the very simple reason that:  the Vive's tunnel vision is primarily experienced by Rift owners who having be familiar with the Oculus Rift's visual design. By the time I tried the Vive Pro I was using my Rift almost daily for over 2 years. And with the Rift, the screen is so close to your face that there is no sense of this tunnel vision. So after two years of Rift's design, the Vive Pro's tunnel vision stuck out like a sore thumb.

    But if a consumer has never tried a Rift, then the Vive Pro probably feels like the best thing since sliced bread. It's all about perspective and actual individual first-hand experience.

    There's just no way I would ever trade in the Rift's visual experience to the Vive's based solely on this design difference. And again, this is an observation that can really only come form first-hand experience as opposed to theorycrafting over specifications.

    And now we're seeing this play out all over again with Valve Index.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
    Good point about possible godrays. They seem to be hiding something. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    Good point about possible godrays. They seem to be hiding something. 

    I'm not really surprised at all that a Valve product has God Rays!


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    @Zenbane Yup, that "tunnel vision" .. Thats the damn reason I never felt comfortable using a Vive.
     Never been able to exactly describe what this awkward vision effect was I didnt like.
    Thx!
    Be good, die great !
  • forestguyforestguy Posts: 167
    Art3mis
    Zenbane said:
    @RedRizla - I think SIM Enthusiasts are going for Reverb. Seems the best overall visuals available from an HMD. And due to the nature of SIMS, the fact that it uses 2-front-facing cameras isn't much of an issue.

    However, one trend that seems to be popping up is that the Valve Index seems the smarter option over anything Pimax. Essentially, Valve just made Pimax 5k/8K look Super Derp.

    Hmm...lets see the full reviews (with games etc) first before Pimax bashing.
    If you bought the Pimax as a kickstarter product (like many did) the Valve Index is not really a step up especially after all the hype. The specs alone with the Valve Index is underwhelming  e.g FOV and Resolution.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,360 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    But offcouse the best is yet to come:
    Just saying :lol:


    Due to release some time during the next decade. Maybe. Just saying  :D:p:D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    But offcouse the best is yet to come:
    Just saying :lol:


    Would that be Half Life they are talking about? If it is I think the need to change the name to Whole Life by the time that's released. Because that's how long I would feel I have waited to see this game in VR.
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    snowdog said:
    Due to release some time during the next decade. Maybe. Just saying  :D:p:D
    Well, they wont release unfinished games !

    The apes on the planet are in for a blast at least.
    Then again what do I know, im just a nobody :smile:
    Be good, die great !
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    forestguy said:
    Zenbane said:
    @RedRizla - I think SIM Enthusiasts are going for Reverb. Seems the best overall visuals available from an HMD. And due to the nature of SIMS, the fact that it uses 2-front-facing cameras isn't much of an issue.

    However, one trend that seems to be popping up is that the Valve Index seems the smarter option over anything Pimax. Essentially, Valve just made Pimax 5k/8K look Super Derp.

    Hmm...lets see the full reviews (with games etc) first before Pimax bashing.
    If you bought the Pimax as a kickstarter product (like many did) the Valve Index is not really a step up especially after all the hype. The specs alone with the Valve Index is underwhelming  e.g FOV and Resolution.
    I'm referring to some of the stuff I've read others talking about (which I can dig up later). But we have a full Pimax Megathread here that went on for over a year. So any "Pimax bashing" is most certainly based on watching the promises of the Kickstarter constantly changing over time.

    Now if you want to Police the forum for any "bashing" then maybe start with all of it, including the long history of Oculus bashing. We've already had posts this month saying "RIP Oculus" lol.

    Your post reminds me of how "Oculus Bashing" is treated so commonplace and ordinary, while bashing any other product is so incredibly out of place and taboo! lol
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    RedRizla said:
    Would that be Half Life they are talking about? If it is I think the need to change the name to Whole Life by the time that's released. Because that's how long I would feel I have waited to see this game in VR.
    lol .. At this point its a meme.
     They have been talking about 3 exclusive VR titles for soooo loooong.
    And they cant even reveal a title at Index reveal. :)
    Be good, die great !
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    RedRizla said:
    Would that be Half Life they are talking about? If it is I think the need to change the name to Whole Life by the time that's released. Because that's how long I would feel I have waited to see this game in VR.
    lol .. At this point its a meme.
     They have been talking about 3 exclusive VR titles for soooo loooong.
    And they cant even reveal a title at Index reveal. :)

    Yep. And if Valve takes years to complete a task, it's called Valve Time. If Oculus takes years, it's "RIP Oculus."
    :D
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
    By the time valve finishes something Riga mortise will set in.
  • forestguyforestguy Posts: 167
    Art3mis
    Zenbane said:
    forestguy said:
    Zenbane said:
    @RedRizla - I think SIM Enthusiasts are going for Reverb. Seems the best overall visuals available from an HMD. And due to the nature of SIMS, the fact that it uses 2-front-facing cameras isn't much of an issue.

    However, one trend that seems to be popping up is that the Valve Index seems the smarter option over anything Pimax. Essentially, Valve just made Pimax 5k/8K look Super Derp.

    Hmm...lets see the full reviews (with games etc) first before Pimax bashing.
    If you bought the Pimax as a kickstarter product (like many did) the Valve Index is not really a step up especially after all the hype. The specs alone with the Valve Index is underwhelming  e.g FOV and Resolution.
    I'm referring to some of the stuff I've read others talking about (which I can dig up later). But we have a full Pimax Megathread here that went on for over a year. So any "Pimax bashing" is most certainly based on watching the promises of the Kickstarter constantly changing over time.

    Now if you want to Police the forum for any "bashing" then maybe start with all of it, including the long history of Oculus bashing. We've already had posts this month saying "RIP Oculus" lol.

    Your post reminds me of how "Oculus Bashing" is treated so commonplace and ordinary, while bashing any other product is so incredibly out of place and taboo! lol
    Fair point, however, lets take FOV for instance. Valve Index is very sketchy about how this and 130 degrees seems to be  achieved e.g moving it closer to the eyes etc. :-S  Pimax have at least been clear by giving the user 3 levels of FOV. 130, 150, and 170 degrees. Pimax is also compatible with LH and VIVE wands and knuckles, can play oculus software 'natively' without 3rd Party interventions like revive. The resolution seems much better as well, although i'd like to see the reviews first. I'm just disappointed on the specs because they haven't moved VR forward after all the hype. The HP Reverb is for me, the one to watch although the FOV is 'only' 114, the resolution is pushing the envelope much bigger than the Value Index. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    forestguy said:
     Pimax have at least been clear by giving the user 3 levels of FOV. 130, 150, and 170 degrees.

    Well now, that is a bit disingenuous. Pimax wasn't clear about those 3 levels of FOV until well AFTER they made a promise of 200 degrees FOV at 8K resolution. Then when it was fully funded and about a year went by... suddenly reality set in and those lower level FOV settings became the true product feature.

    If we are going to be unbiased and honest, the Pimax promised 200dFOV and delivered 130-170 after taking everyone's money. That's not "being clear."
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,360 Valuable Player
    Yup, I've found the specs disappointing too tbh. If they're going to release a 1600p headset they REALLY need to knock a few hundred quid off the bloody price.

    At this moment in time the Pimax 5K+ is looking like a better buy than the Valve Index, and I NEVER thought I would say that.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Yup, I've found the specs disappointing too tbh. If they're going to release a 1600p headset they REALLY need to knock a few hundred quid off the bloody price.

    At this moment in time the Pimax 5K+ is looking like a better buy than the Valve Index, and I NEVER thought I would say that.

    Well you do have this secret love affair with the Pimax 5K. You talk about it every so often. I'm not judging, but just buy it already! lol


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • forestguyforestguy Posts: 167
    Art3mis
    Zenbane said:
    forestguy said:
     Pimax have at least been clear by giving the user 3 levels of FOV. 130, 150, and 170 degrees.

    Well now, that is a bit disingenuous. Pimax wasn't clear about those 3 levels of FOV until well AFTER they made a promise of 200 degrees FOV at 8K resolution. Then when it was fully funded and about a year went by... suddenly reality set in and those lower level FOV settings became the true product feature.

    If we are going to be unbiased and honest, the Pimax promised 200dFOV and delivered 130-170 after taking everyone's money. That's not "being clear."
    That is true, however, they still delivered on 130-170 FOV whereby every other VR devices was 95-110 FOV. At least they attempted to move things forward, I've tried the Pimax at my friends house and it is like looking through a Ski Mask, while with my Rift it is like looking through a pair of Binoculars. 
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 354
    Trinity
    edited May 2019

    I need some wisdom, I have a Vive Pro with wireless adapter, should I buy the index anyway or hold off.. because there isn't even eye tracking?


    The Controllers and the 120/144hz are making my penis tingle.. I need help. IPD range, and sound looks great too.. SHIT.


    Edit: Whatever, im gunna fucking buy it.



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