Why I think rift s will be better tracking for some than rift sensors — Oculus
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Why I think rift s will be better tracking for some than rift sensors

inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
Project 2501
I have always struggled to get the best sensor set up possible and it was always good enough but I felt it could be better. I can't put them high up but members have said that table hight got them close to perfect tracking. I think it's my incompetence in setting them up. That's why for me I think I will notice the difference in the tracking of the rift s. Dam it hurry up may 21st!
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Comments

  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 755
    3Jane
    It will be better for me. I just had a 2 sensor FRONT setup mounted 7' up 12' apart in the corners of a room. Any 2 sensor front setup has occlusion points whenever your body stands between Touch controllers and the cameras. I originally had a diagonal setup. Way less occlusion issues, but tracking would slip out a lot. That was early on and maybe the software is better, but doesn't matter now.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 134
    Art3mis
    edited May 15
    I had a pretty functional 3 sensor setup at one point. I had the main front center sensor above my monitor facing a little down (about eye height when standing), a second front sensor on the left of the desk at waist level facing up and to the center of the room, and a third sensor on a right side desk facing level. For the most part this worked, though there was a small dead zone in the back and picking up objects off the floor or high up could be a hassle. Overall it was manageable but not perfect.
    In my opinion, Rift S tracking will be better for the common use-cases, over the traditional 2 sensor Rift setup. Range is not an issue, and there will be no static dead zones. The main problem will be reaching behind the head (really, how many bow and arrow games do people play?) and also some types of occlusion, but I still think it will be less than Rift 1.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    When I started the thread I should have mentioned I used 3 sensors
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,737 Valuable Player
    I want to try it first.  If the unit loses tracking in Onward because I put the scope too close to my face the unit is absolutely useless to me until they get that fixed.  It looks like it will improve the clarity on DCS World so that looks really good.  But I hope the tracking doesn't go to shit when you get the controllers close to the HMD.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    I just don't see why Oculus can't have a sensor as an added option for those who want one. They have already said the external sensors can be used if they keep it in their software, so what's the problem? If people don't want an addon sensor that would allow tracking even close up to the face mask, then that would be there choice would it not?

    I mean - What's the problem with having an Oculus having a sensor addon and keeping it in the Oculus software? Let people have the choice for crying out loud. Fine if they don't want a sensor and great for those who do. Best of both worlds right there at your finger tips and I'm sure Oculus would sell a lot of sensors if they did that.

    I get they want the setup to be straight forward now, but what problem is one sensor in-front of you going to cause? Unless Oculus still haven't sorted out their usb problems out with the sensors, which I found baffling to begin with. I've never had a usb problem with any usb device, so I don't know how Oculus managed to cock that one up tbh.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 134
    Art3mis
    Honestly the sensor/USB issues practically ruined the Rift for many people. Oculus would be smart to move away from that headache. Plus, then you'll have reviews saying: "To get the best tracking you'll still need to buy an additional sensor or sensors and place them in the room". It's a losing proposition.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,060 Valuable Player
    Got my sensors plugged in to the Virtual Link port on my 2080 Ti, been rock solid there.
    I certainly would not object to having it as an option to use with my new Rift S.
    Don

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 16
    @TheRealCyber - This is why I said at-least let it be an option for those who already have a sensor or want one. Those who want headphones instead of using the ones built into the headset have an option to buy some headphones if they want. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a sensors, but why write it out of the software when you don't need to do that?

    It's actually one of the things stopping me upgrading to a Rift -S right now if I'm honest. I'm just not seeing good feedback about scoped weapons in FPS, but I'll wait to see more reviews. Will be interesting to see what the sniper map on Dead & Buried is like.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    It's not going to happen in the future. Inside tracking will be it so we all will have to get used to it.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,690 Valuable Player
    I don't know much about guns, but I'm pretty sure it's the scope you're supposed to hold up to your eye, not your hand???

    :tongue:
    Merry Riftmas, everybody!
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 16
    inovator said:
    It's not going to happen in the future. Inside tracking will be it so we all will have to get used to it.

    You have to make sure it works good in all games if it's the future. Like I've already said though, I'll wait for the reviews on here to see if it's a problem or not. I'm just going by what some YouTube reviewers have said at present, but I'll soon know how good it is.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    @TheRealCyber - This is why I said at-least let it be an option for those who already have a sensor or want one. Those who want headphones instead of using the ones built into the headset have an option to buy some headphones if they want. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a sensors, but why write it out of the software when you don't need to do that?

    It's actually one of the things stopping me upgrading to a Rift -S right now if I'm honest. I'm just not seeing good feedback about scoped weapons in FPS, but I'll wait to see more reviews. Will be interesting to see what the sniper map on Dead & Buried is like.
    Eventually you'll find sensors in a museum with the dinasaur eggs. Lol
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,152 Volunteer Moderator
    For some people, it will be better (as described above). Easier setup, probably better coverage than 2 sensor systems.

    For some, it will be worse. Previously, it was mainly just if your sensors could see you without occlusion. Now it will be affected by your room's lighting and appearance as to how good the headset can track itself by looking for static easy to identify details. Plus hand tracking is now relative to head tracking, which means an accumulation of error.

    Also for the whole "behind the head is just for archery" thing, remember that heads can turn. Face right, holding your hand out to the left is now potentially in a dead zone. Place a controller near your chest and look up a bit, dead zone. Place one controller behind another, dead zone.

    Both inside out and outside in have pros and cons. Neither is a perfect system.
    Inside out is convenient.
    Outside in gives a stable fixed coordinate system that is mostly unaffected by details or movement outside of the sensor region.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 16
    @kojack - I have a 3 sensor setup that has never caused me any problems. Looking at the Rift -S reviews so far, I'm guessing my current setup is going to be a much better then inside out tracking. The only good thing about inside out tracking is that it can be setup quickly and is convenient for people who don't have a dedicated VR room. 

    My sensor setup took me less then 30 mins to set up in my dedicated VR room and the only thing I've had to do is dust them once a month. I only lose tracking right below the sensors in the corners of my room, but I've never had to go there while playing games. 

    I'll wait to see if Oculus supports my sensors in their software or it looks like I'll replace them with lighthouses. Rift -S needs to be on a par with the current tracking, or it's a step back for people like me who have dedicated VR rooms. Rift -S will be great for those who want to quickly setup VR, but Oculus should also cater for those who have dedicated rooms and don't mind spending 30 mins of their life setting up sensors. My sensors are on the walls and the cables are hidden with trucking. Total setup time 30 mins or less :)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    RedRizla said:
    @TheRealCyber - This is why I said at-least let it be an option for those who already have a sensor or want one. Those who want headphones instead of using the ones built into the headset have an option to buy some headphones if they want. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a sensors, but why write it out of the software when you don't need to do that?

    It's actually one of the things stopping me upgrading to a Rift -S right now if I'm honest. I'm just not seeing good feedback about scoped weapons in FPS, but I'll wait to see more reviews. Will be interesting to see what the sniper map on Dead & Buried is like.
    Eventually you'll find sensors in a museum with the dinasaur eggs. Lol

    Given how long it took dino eggs to be in museums. I'm guessing it's going to be a long time before we see sensors in a museum then ;)
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    @kojack - I have a 3 sensor setup that has never caused me any problems. Looking at the Rift -S reviews so far, I'm guessing my current setup is going to be a much better then inside out tracking. The only good thing about inside out tracking is that it can be setup quickly and is convenient for people who don't have a dedicated VR room. 

    My sensor setup took me less then 30 mins to set up in my dedicated VR room and the only thing I've had to do is dust them once a month. I only lose tracking right below the sensors in the corners of my room, but I've never had to go there while playing games. 

    I'll wait to see if Oculus supports my sensors in their software or it looks like I'll replace them with lighthouses. Rift -S needs to be on a par with the current tracking, or it's a step back for people like me who have dedicated VR rooms. Rift -S will be great for those who want to quickly setup VR, but Oculus should also cater for those who have dedicated rooms and don't mind spending 30 mins of their life setting up sensors. My sensors are on the walls and the cables are hidden with trucking. Total setup time 30 mins or less :)
    The reviewers had said the sensors have been 95 % accurate so your set up isn't much better. The next rift will most likely have a camera in the back that will give it top tracking ability. Unfortunately your in the  minority that can have a dedicated room set up. Oculus needs to think of the big picture. ;)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 17
    inovator said:
    RedRizla said:
    @kojack - I have a 3 sensor setup that has never caused me any problems. Looking at the Rift -S reviews so far, I'm guessing my current setup is going to be a much better then inside out tracking. The only good thing about inside out tracking is that it can be setup quickly and is convenient for people who don't have a dedicated VR room. 

    My sensor setup took me less then 30 mins to set up in my dedicated VR room and the only thing I've had to do is dust them once a month. I only lose tracking right below the sensors in the corners of my room, but I've never had to go there while playing games. 

    I'll wait to see if Oculus supports my sensors in their software or it looks like I'll replace them with lighthouses. Rift -S needs to be on a par with the current tracking, or it's a step back for people like me who have dedicated VR rooms. Rift -S will be great for those who want to quickly setup VR, but Oculus should also cater for those who have dedicated rooms and don't mind spending 30 mins of their life setting up sensors. My sensors are on the walls and the cables are hidden with trucking. Total setup time 30 mins or less :)
    The reviewers had said the sensors have been 95 % accurate so your set up isn't much better. The next rift will most likely have a camera in the back that will give it top tracking ability. Unfortunately your in the  minority that can have a dedicated room set up. Oculus needs to think of the big picture. ;)

    I think you are missing the whole point here. It is nothing for Oculus to keep the external tracking sensors in their software, so what's the problem? It would serve everyone if they kept it in their software even those who wanted to upgrade but are reluctant to because of the slightly inferior tracking.

    I'm sure you would have a different opinion if you had sensors connected to your walls. You are only saying what you are saying because you don't have external sensors setup therefore inside out suits you. Think of other people who do have sensors permanently setup though please. There's no reason to remove something from the Oculus software, if it doesn't need to be removed. 

    Did you read what @kojack said about the tracking by any chance? 


  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    You love the sensors so I don't blame you for feeling that way. I don't think it's a bad idea to keep the setup at least until they have another camera in back of the headset and they may.
    If they don't they may have a good reason that they may explain.
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 755
    3Jane
    edited May 17
    RedRizla said:
    inovator said:
    RedRizla said:


    I think you are missing the whole point here.
    I think you're missing the point. Just like TheRealCyber already said, the new narrative would change to  "for the best experience you need 1 or 2 external sensors", which would render the perception of inside-out as insufficient without them, EVEN IF it wasn't true at all. I agree Oculus just needs to wash their hands of external cameras. I think your getting wound up prematurely. Virtual Reality Oasis on Youtube recently uploaded a video where he used actual stocks, and it worked pretty much flawlessly.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 17
    @jayhawk - Not sure what "wound up" means from you come from, but it obviously has a different meaning where I come from. It's a forum and I'm having discussion about tracking. Wound up :D

    They don't have to say anything about having 2 sensors for the best experience. Have they said you need some headphones for the best audio experience?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,658 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    I think you are missing the whole point here. It is nothing for Oculus to keep the external tracking sensors in their software, so what's the problem?

    I agreed with that point of view for awhile now. However, Cyber does make a very valid point. If Oculus allows the external sensors to be used... then it would diminish the progress the company is making with Inside-Out Tracking. People would very much proclaim that Inside-Out Tracking is something of a "failure" because we need external sensors to achieve perfect tracking.

    Oculus would need to figure out a way to market the external sensor integration in a way that does that crap all over their push for inside-out tracking. Like... maybe use External Sensors to achieve "arena scale"?? Something to that effect.
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  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 755
    3Jane
    RedRizla said:
    @jayhawk - Not sure what "wound up" means from you come from, but it's obviously has a different meaning where I'm from. It's a forum and I'm having discussion about tracking. Wound up :D
    Did you really just get wound up, over 'wound up'? lol. So tell me what it means where you are from.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    @Zenbane - I totally get what you are saying, but Oculus don't really need say anything. Oculus aren't telling anyone to get headphones to get a better audio experience on the Rift -S. I'm just saying let people decide and if the tracking is as good as people are saying then Oculus have nothing to worry about regarding inside out tracking. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 17
    jayhawk said:
    RedRizla said:
    @jayhawk - Not sure what "wound up" means from you come from, but it's obviously has a different meaning where I'm from. It's a forum and I'm having discussion about tracking. Wound up :D
    Did you really just get wound up, over 'wound up'? lol. So tell me what it means where you are from.

    You are the one who brought the word up. Maybe you could tell me what it means where you come from? Then we can go over what I've said and compare it to the meaning of word.
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 755
    3Jane
    RedRizla said:
    jayhawk said:
    RedRizla said:
    @jayhawk - Not sure what "wound up" means from you come from, but it's obviously has a different meaning where I'm from. It's a forum and I'm having discussion about tracking. Wound up :D
    Did you really just get wound up, over 'wound up'? lol. So tell me what it means where you are from.

    Your the one who brought the word up. Maybe you could tell me what it means where you come from? Then we can go over what I've said and compare it to the meaning of wound up.
    Where I am from it's not offensive. Your turn.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 17
    jayhawk said:
    RedRizla said:
    jayhawk said:
    RedRizla said:
    @jayhawk - Not sure what "wound up" means from you come from, but it's obviously has a different meaning where I'm from. It's a forum and I'm having discussion about tracking. Wound up :D
    Did you really just get wound up, over 'wound up'? lol. So tell me what it means where you are from.

    Your the one who brought the word up. Maybe you could tell me what it means where you come from? Then we can go over what I've said and compare it to the meaning of wound up.
    Where I am from it's not offensive. Your turn.

    Google is your friend. Bit of a difference from having a discussion wouldn't you say?

    https://www.thefreedictionary.com/wound+up
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player

    There's a lot of guessing going on here... but an increasing number of on-line reviews which seem good... and we'll have no shortage of user reviews of the tracking from forum users here very soon.

    Personally my 2 sensors have been ok for seated VR but completely useless for 360. I wanted to get a 3rd sensor but the only rooms big enough for 360 would have had to be temporary locations and having to set up for each session just meant I didn't bother, so I've settled for seated only so far.

    Inside out will encourage me to shift my PC for all the 360 games I've bought but haven't yet played much. Really looking forward to it.

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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,734
    Project 2501
    jayhawk said:
    RedRizla said:
    inovator said:
    RedRizla said:


    I think you are missing the whole point here.
    I think you're missing the point. Just like TheRealCyber already said, the new narrative would change to  "for the best experience you need 1 or 2 external sensors", which would render the perception of inside-out as insufficient without them, EVEN IF it wasn't true at all. I agree Oculus just needs to wash their hands of external cameras. I think your getting wound up prematurely. Virtual Reality Oasis on Youtube recently uploaded a video where he used actual stocks, and it worked pretty much flawlessly.
    I'm having a discussion. I'm not getting wound up. Your saying I missed the point, is really saying I missed the point because I don't agree with you, when in fact you are overly emotional that the sensors will eventually be history. Those that go to others  that have outside tracking is fine. But it will be a temporary fix. One day people will say wow they used to have outside tracking. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 5,848 Valuable Player
    edited May 17
    @inovator - You did miss the point I was making, but nowhere did I ask you to agree with me. You don't agree with me that's fine, it's called having an opinion. Some people will agree with me and others won't that's life.  It's nothing to do with being "over emotional". First I'm "wound up" and now I'm over emotional for having a simple discussion? I'm not sure if these words have a totally different meaning where come from, but neither of these feeling is in this simple discussion I'm having.

    I could say you have started a thread about tracking and you don't want anyone to disagree with you just because you find inside out more convenient. I am merely pointing out I like my sensors and would like Oculus to use them with the Rift -S. Nate Mitchell said Oculus would look at feed back and since this is an Oculus forum, I thought I'd say what I thought in this thread about tracking. This thread is about tracking right?
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 755
    3Jane
    inovator said:

    I'm having a discussion. I'm not getting wound up. Your saying I missed the point, is really saying I missed the point because I don't agree with you, when in fact you are overly emotional that the sensors will eventually be history. Those that go to others  that have outside tracking is fine. But it will be a temporary fix. One day people will say wow they used to have outside tracking. 
    that reply was not addressed to you.
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