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Rift S - Please read before you buy - Tracking problems with realistic FPS sims & Archery

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  • BloodyShadowBloodyShadow Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    I'm just throwing in my two cents to back up Sk's claims, I've had the exact same issues in every game that involves pulling a hand near your head or face (sniping, archery, etc.). It isn't anything to do with faulty equipment (except in design maybe), but the placement of the sensors and the blind spots near your head and face. 

    I'm really REALLY hoping to use my existing room sensors, because everything else about the 'S' is great and well worth dishing out a little for, but only if I can still play my favorite games... In Death is tragically crippled now, and I'll be testing onward tonight. Really bummed about this, hoping we get a fix soon. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @SkScotchegg - I've being banging on about this for sometime now and some people wanted to argue that inside out was the future and that I just had to get used to it. I'm sorry to say that it's not the future if it doesn't allow you to play first person shooters properly. Imagine Microsoft or Sony bringing out a console that had a wonky controller that didn't allow you to play FPS properly. Would people just say that's fine when FPS is half of what gaming is all about? 

    I love the display on the Rift S, but Oculus need to announce something soon for external sensor support, or some of their games on the Oculus Store need to be removed. How can you sell games for a VR headset in your store if the games don't work properly?  

    I've tried these games myself and the tracking is dreadful when you bring your hand up to your face and try to aim. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm on the verge of returning this if Oculus don't come up with something soon. Allow external sensors to be used and you have a winner of a headset. Don't allow external sensors to be used and I can't cope with this frustration in FPS.

    I honestly can't even think why Oculus need to even consider this now, it's obvious you need an external sensor to allow the headset to track your hands near to the headset to play these games properly.
  • BloodyShadowBloodyShadow Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    To elaborate, games I've tested so far include:
    - In Death
    - Skyrim (Archery)
    - Dead and buried (the bow, but it can be worked around as this isn't aimed quite like in other games)

    All of which had issues aiming, including lost tracking, juttering, freezes, all the fun stuff centered around blind spots. 

    I'll be testing Onward in about an hour, will update. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,281 Valuable Player
    I can confirm that archery in In Death with the Rift S is unplayable unless you hold the bow horizontally and draw the bow around your chin. It means it's virtually impossible to aim properly.

    Skyrim VR though is pretty good. It's not perfect because you can't move your right hand when the bow is drawn but it's definitely playable.

    In Death is a fucking mess though, I've posted on the In Death subreddit just now, hopefully they'll see it and have a look at things.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    PSA To people having trouble with VR FPS games on the Rift S: Turn on Virtual Stock if Available

    One reddit guy says Pavlov is OK if you turn on virtual gunstock. 

    I'm surprised by all these issues. Seems the YouTubers mislead us. They said the tracking was flawless. It seems we were misled.

    I don't play Pavlov and Onward. I do play Skyrim and Fallout 4 VR. I didn't have any problem with those using bows and scoped weapons. I'll do more testing. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019

    Didn't the Onward devs say they're amending the gun mechanics to work better with the S? I'm guessing that means adjusting the gun grip position to be an inch or so further away from your face. No idea what the real rifle distance between the butt of the stock and the grip is but I'm sure a realistic compromise can be made.

    As the S is now the default Rift and likely to be reasonable popular, I'd say the chances are good that devs will make the necessary changes.


    @DaftnDirect - The thing is we shouldn't have to compromise on how we naturally like to hold things. I find it uncomfortable and tiring holding my hands out further in front of me playing Onward. Archery games where it's natural to bring your hand close to your face are now changed to having your hand out in-front of you? Not only is that not natural, but it also feels crap using a bow like this. 

    What needs to happen is for Oculus to enable the external sensors and allow those people who want a sensor to be able to buy one. There's no better fix then that imho. Sadly mines going back if something isn't announced soon and I'll buy at a later date when it's fixed. Shame really because I love everything else about the headset.
  • BloodyShadowBloodyShadow Posts: 23
    Brain Burst
    RedRizla said:

    Didn't the Onward devs say they're amending the gun mechanics to work better with the S? I'm guessing that means adjusting the gun grip position to be an inch or so further away from your face. No idea what the real rifle distance between the butt of the stock and the grip is but I'm sure a realistic compromise can be made.

    As the S is now the default Rift and likely to be reasonable popular, I'd say the chances are good that devs will make the necessary changes.


    @DaftnDirect - The thing is we shouldn't have to compromise on how we naturally like to hold things. I find it uncomfortable and tiring holding my hands out further in front of me playing Onward. Archery games where it's natural to bring your hand close to your face are now changed to having your hand out in-front of you? Not only is that not natural, but it also feels crap using a bow like this. 

    What needs to happen is for Oculus to enable the external sensors and allow those people who want a sensor to be able to buy one. There's no better fix then that imho. Sadly mines going back if something isn't announced soon and I'll buy at a later date when it's fixed. Shame really because I love everything else about the headset.
    This. Exactly this. From start to finish couldn't have said it better myself. Mine will be going back as well if they don't do something quick to help make things better. 
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    Hopefully it's something that can be fixed in a game patch. I think inside-out is the future, even if Oculus enables CV1 sensors, it will probably be a stop-gap solution.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,454 Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 2019
    RedRizla said:

    Didn't the Onward devs say they're amending the gun mechanics to work better with the S? I'm guessing that means adjusting the gun grip position to be an inch or so further away from your face. No idea what the real rifle distance between the butt of the stock and the grip is but I'm sure a realistic compromise can be made.

    As the S is now the default Rift and likely to be reasonable popular, I'd say the chances are good that devs will make the necessary changes.


    @DaftnDirect - The thing is we shouldn't have to compromise on how we naturally like to hold things. I find it uncomfortable and tiring holding my hands out further in front of me playing Onward. Archery games where it's natural to bring your hand close to your face are now changed to having your hand out in-front of you? Not only is that not natural, but it also feels crap using a bow like this. 

    What needs to happen is for Oculus to enable the external sensors and allow those people who want a sensor to be able to buy one. There's no better fix then that imho. Sadly mines going back if something isn't announced soon and I'll buy at a later date when it's fixed. Shame really because I love everything else about the headset.A

    I understand what you're saying but having 2 setup options will also call for 2 in-game options, otherwise those without an external sensor won't have a solution.

    I think it all depends how much of a compromise the developer's solution is deemed to be. If we're talking only an inch or 2 further away from your headset for a scoped weapon grip, how much of a compromise is it?


    Edit: Thinking about it more... the upwards ring of the new Touches are obviously design to be directed towards the headset... there's going to be increase occlusion issues when they're close to the headset as viewed from an external sensor. So I think we're talking multiple sensors possibly 3 to avoid a problem at all. 2 developer streams from Oculus' point of view and game devs point of view is starting to seem a little messy.

    I don't know, I'm going to wait to see how the dev solution looks before calling it one way or the other.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,199
    3Jane
    "Tracking doesn't work for FPS & Archery games" is pretty ...hyperbole, ya? Been playing a variety of games today, love the shit out of it.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    Seems like there's mixed opinions, so I'll probably have to send my headset back due to faulty tracking if some other people aren't experiencing what I'm experiencing. Which is when my hand comes close to my face to pull the string on a bow, or I try to bring a rifle scope closer to my eye in the game. What happens for me is my hand just freezes and my rifle and bow are knocked off aim.

    I thought it was because of lost tracking near to the headset, but obviously it's not that looking at some posts in this thead. I'll contact Oculus and get their opinion on it in case I have a faulty headset. Never had this problem with Rift CV1 in these games though, so it's definitely down to tracking and not just the game.


  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    I just played Contractors and Pavlov. 

    Tracking was pretty good, little to no occlusion.  However, I also don;t have a gunstock right now (ordering a new one from ProTube) so perhaps that's why
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @ShocksOculus - Are you holding your hands further out in-front of you or something? I'm trying to determine if my headset is faulty because I agree with what the OP and what some others have said about FPS in this thread. When you say: "pretty good" are you having some hiccups or none at all?
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    edited May 2019
    I'm not holding the guns super close, I never do that even with a stock.  Again I don't have a stock right now (so may the occlusion issue will change), but I was just using my arm as a balance.  I was able to look down the red dot quick scope in contractors, and I did iron sights in Pavlov. Honestly after an hour of playing, I maybe had a quick bout of occlusion 3-5 times over an hour.  This was actually about the same occlusion amount as my 3-sensor CV1 Rift.

    I did notice when I was playing Onward yesterday, as that game seems to require pulling the guns closer to look in the scope, that there was occlusion on one of the controllers (not sure which controller).  I didn't have that with my CV1.  I should also say I don't play Onward much - I play Contractors, War Dust, Pavlov more.

    I'll do some more testing later.  And I'll keep at my taunt of "You were just killed by someone on an S" :D
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,073 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @SkScotchegg - I've being banging on about this for sometime now and some people wanted to argue that inside out was the future and that I just had to get used to it. I'm sorry to say that it's not the future if it doesn't allow you to play first person shooters properly. Imagine Microsoft or Sony bringing out a console that had a wonky controller that didn't allow you to play FPS properly. Would people just say that's fine when FPS is half of what gaming is all about? 

    I love the display on the Rift S, but Oculus need to announce something soon for external sensor support, or some of their games on the Oculus Store need to be removed. How can you sell games for a VR headset in your store if the games don't work properly?  

    I've tried these games myself and the tracking is dreadful when you bring your hand up to your face and try to aim. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm on the verge of returning this if Oculus don't come up with something soon. Allow external sensors to be used and you have a winner of a headset. Don't allow external sensors to be used and I can't cope with this frustration in FPS.

    I honestly can't even think why Oculus need to even consider this now, it's obvious you need an external sensor to allow the headset to track your hands near to the headset to play these games properly.
    Bingo!!!!!
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    I've had occasional tracking 'hiccups'  (specifically: controllers freezing in the air for a second)  but most of the time, I'm able to aim bows just fine?

    Question to those having trouble with bows:   Which hand are you moving to aim, the arrow hand or the bow hand?  Because I'm pretty sure it should be the bow hand,  which would be in optimal view of the Rift-S' cameras, while the arrow-hand  remains stationary (as it will, frozen in place next your head when you draw it back)

    The momentary tracking freezes are the only thing throwing off my In-Death performance (and occasionally preventing me from taking out an enemy or blocking a shot in Apex Construct)  and I'm 90% sure these are either due to a loose headset cable or a software error that Oculus will be able to correct in time..

    If you're concerned, I guess there's no reason you couldn't just return your Rift-S and buy another if / when the glitches are fixed  (or they allow a Hybrid Tracking option)   but I'd at least wait a week or so for that fix,  unless that'll make you miss your return deadline   (And you can enjoy apps that don't rely so much on accurate Touch use in the meantime.  Anything that supports gamepad or KBaM, for example)
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @CrashFu - Those momentary freezes are because the headset losses tracking near the headset. It's not due to a loose headset cable as far as I can tell. I hope they can fix it if it's software, but they have had time to perfect this. Nobody was expecting a Rift S, so they could have made sure the tracking was working fine in FPS games on their store.

    I really want this to come good because I really am impressed with the display and the lenses, but not the tracking. I have contacted Oculus to see if I have a faulty headset because it seems some people don't have the issues I'm having. I will also wait to see what game devs have to say and wait for game patches etc.
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    I tried the bow in my Oculus Home. It did glitch a couple of times. You just have to get used to not moving your hand so close to the HMD. It might be just adapting to that reality. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    CrashFu said:
    I've had occasional tracking 'hiccups'  (specifically: controllers freezing in the air for a second)  but most of the time, I'm able to aim bows just fine?

    lol I don't think I need to add anything to this.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    JD-UK said:
    I greatly dislike people putting others off buying goods because they are having their own issues. Telling people they definitely won't be able to play this or that game because yourself and perhaps the vocal minority are having issues is highly irresponsible.

    I already explained in at least 3 different separate Topics/Threads on these forums that Arcade FPS like Robo Recall etc will work fine where you hold your hands out in front of you, and other games like Beat Saber, Audica are unaffected by the tracking also.

    It's more serious FPS games, or realistic FPS games like Onward, Pavlov, Contractors etc where these issues arise.

    And like someone else already said in here, I made this post to keep people informed. 

    If people are using the headset for sims (racing & flying) games or arcade type games they should be ok but there's no way you can aim correctly with Rifles/bows as when you put your hand close to your head the tracking stops/glitches/cuts out/freezes. And then your having to battle against the tracking which takes away from the immersion and enjoyment of the game.

    The only reason I can think why people would argue against this point is that they either want to justify their purchase, they haven't experimented correctly with these games, or they're just plain trolling and haven't even bought a Rift S and/or don't own the games we have mentioned.

    I've tried 11 games on Rift S so far, 7 had issues with tracking which were FPS/Archery type games, and 4 games mroe Arcade type games which were fine. I'll also try more games tonight after I finish work and get my daughter to bed and then I'll report back on those games too.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    @CrashFu - Those momentary freezes are because the headset losses tracking near the headset. It's not due to a loose headset cable as far as I can tell. I hope they can fix it if it's software, but they have had time to perfect this. Nobody was expecting a Rift S, so they could have made sure the tracking was working fine in FPS games on their store.

    I really want this to come good because I really am impressed with the display and the lenses, but not the tracking. I have contacted Oculus to see if I have a faulty headset because it seems some people don't have the issues I'm having. I will also wait to see what game devs have to say and wait for game patches etc.

    I feel the exact same way, the headset is amazing in terms of build quality and visuals, which makes this such a shame. 

    I am optimistic Oculus will enable constellation tracking in the software eventually, I just hope it's sooner rather then later.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    CrashFu said:
    I've had occasional tracking 'hiccups'  (specifically: controllers freezing in the air for a second)  but most of the time, I'm able to aim bows just fine?

    Question to those having trouble with bows:   Which hand are you moving to aim, the arrow hand or the bow hand?  Because I'm pretty sure it should be the bow hand,  which would be in optimal view of the Rift-S' cameras, while the arrow-hand  remains stationary (as it will, frozen in place next your head when you draw it back)

    The momentary tracking freezes are the only thing throwing off my In-Death performance (and occasionally preventing me from taking out an enemy or blocking a shot in Apex Construct)  and I'm 90% sure these are either due to a loose headset cable or a software error that Oculus will be able to correct in time..

    If you're concerned, I guess there's no reason you couldn't just return your Rift-S and buy another if / when the glitches are fixed  (or they allow a Hybrid Tracking option)   but I'd at least wait a week or so for that fix,  unless that'll make you miss your return deadline   (And you can enjoy apps that don't rely so much on accurate Touch use in the meantime.  Anything that supports gamepad or KBaM, for example)

    I hold the bow with my left hand and pull back the arrow with my right hand to my face, and then the tracking stops and my right hand freezes which messes up my aim. I do archery in real life, I'm part of an Archery club where I live but shooting and aiming in VR is slightly different as your have a bulky headset over your eyes and head which takes some space, the controllers can hit the headset etc, so your right hand does have to be able to move ever so slightly in either direction. But once it freezes it just destroys the whole experience for me.

    Also you have to take into consideration the game mechanics for bows in each individual games as some games are quite arcadey but I find In Death the most realistic bow mechanics out of all the games I've tried so far.

    I think also another thing to add why there might be a discrepancy between different reviews is some people might just play games like In Death in a very fast paced arcadey type way and not be that fussed about long distance HS. Some might aim from the hip or lower chest or hold the bow on it's side. There's quite a few factors.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,159 Valuable Player
    I appreciate you sharing your frustrations with the tracking, but after learning how high (but understandably so) your expectations are, I'm a little surprised you bought it in the first place.
    Nate was pretty open about the fact that there would obviously be blind spots, so I reckon you just hoped the software was better at handling the loss of tracking?
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,159 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    There's no doubt it's an area where both Oculus and the app devs will continue to push improvements, so let's hope it'll all wind up being much more acceptable than now. 
    This quote from Carmack seems to back that up :)   https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/bsfgu0/closetoheadset_controller_tracking_is_being/
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
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