New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

Rift S - Please read before you buy - Tracking problems with realistic FPS sims & Archery

1246712

Comments

  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,202
    3Jane
    Neo_33 said:
    I don't really have a problem with shooting arrows in Apex Construct with the Rift S.  Maybe its a software issue.  The Rift S is new with new tracking tech compared to the original Rift so maybe software updates to the games will fix this.  
    Is Apex Construct a good buy?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    Neo_33 said:
    I don't really have a problem with shooting arrows in Apex Construct with the Rift S.  Maybe its a software issue.  The Rift S is new with new tracking tech compared to the original Rift so maybe software updates to the games will fix this.  
    Is Apex Construct a good buy?

    No, not to me, low res textures and few polys = poor PSVR graphics, and I think the gameplay is kinda boring. Get In Death or Sacralith instead if you're into archery games - or even better, Windlands 2.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,202
    3Jane
    Ya...definitely comes off as a mobile game or  a Quest game graphically, but I thought the exploration and environments might be fun. Maybe when it's on sale then.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    I'm starting to think if a camera was placed below the headset like it is on the top, then pulling a bow string under your chin or holding a rifle comfy would have worked. It's not so much losing tracking near to the front of the headset that's the problem, it's when my controller goes under the headset a few inches below the chin. A camera underneath would have picked the controller up there I'm sure.
  • SiLvABuLLetZSiLvABuLLetZ Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    edited May 2019
    …...

    I'm quite shocked and hugely disappointed by this, I think maybe what other people were saying about Lenovo was right, I don't think Oculus/Facebook should have partnered with them because if this is the outcome then, well, no thanks.

    I feel sorry for everyone who has pre-ordered expecting to play Onward/Contractors/Pavlov/In Death/Sacralith etc and expecting this to be good. I think we need to all sign a petition to Oculus to enable the old CV1 room sensors for proper tracking otherwise they will have a lot of refunds going in and also this is very bad for people new to VR. In fact I'd go as far as to say that all FPS and Archery games should be taken off Oculus store for Rift S owners until this is resolved because otherwise what's the point? Everyone buying those games will have to refund I suppose.

    Sorry for the rant guys, but I felt compelled to inform the community of this. People need to know how bad this tracking really is.

    And also before Rift S was released people were saying the future is inside/out tracking. Well I'm sorry guys, but you couldn't of been more wrong. Inside/out tracking only works for Arcade games, sim racing games, elite dangerous and maybe Quest if Quest mainly uses Arcade games too? I'll leave that part for Quest users to comment on.

    I own Rift CV 1, Oculus GO and now Rift S, was planning on buying Quest too but I'll hold off on that for a while until I read more reviews. 
    Hi everyone, wanted to sign-in here to share the same sentiment. FPS games are totally broken with the S, and specifically those games requiring interacting with items or objects close to the face (aiming down sights, etc.)

    This *MUST* be fixed -- and am deeply shocked they didn't test any fps games throughout this device's release cycle to validate this core issue, and even more shocked if they knew about it and released anyway expecting people not to 'notice', or ignored it.

    Carmack is now identifying this issue with the Quest, but this definitely includes the S: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1124334345689366528
  • SiLvABuLLetZSiLvABuLLetZ Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    ….
    I'm quite shocked and hugely disappointed by this, I think maybe what other people were saying about Lenovo was right, I don't think Oculus/Facebook should have partnered with them because if this is the outcome then, well, no thanks.

    I feel sorry for everyone who has pre-ordered expecting to play Onward/Contractors/Pavlov/In Death/Sacralith etc and expecting this to be good. I think we need to all sign a petition to Oculus to enable the old CV1 room sensors for proper tracking otherwise they will have a lot of refunds going in and also this is very bad for people new to VR. In fact I'd go as far as to say that all FPS and Archery games should be taken off Oculus store for Rift S owners until this is resolved because otherwise what's the point? Everyone buying those games will have to refund I suppose.

    Sorry for the rant guys, but I felt compelled to inform the community of this. People need to know how bad this tracking really is.

    And also before Rift S was released people were saying the future is inside/out tracking. Well I'm sorry guys, but you couldn't of been more wrong. Inside/out tracking only works for Arcade games, sim racing games, elite dangerous and maybe Quest if Quest mainly uses Arcade games too? I'll leave that part for Quest users to comment on.

    I own Rift CV 1, Oculus GO and now Rift S, was planning on buying Quest too but I'll hold off on that for a while until I read more reviews. 
    I *demand* to know why my post was removed indicating I shared the exact same problem.

    The S is BROKEN for FPS games - those that require interaction with items and objects close to the face.

    Why was my post removed?
  • SiLvABuLLetZSiLvABuLLetZ Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    edited May 2019
    Why was my original post deleted - I demand to know. Potential buyers have a right to know that FPS games are utterly unplayable with the S.

    This must be fixed.
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 1,060
    Wintermute
    Why was my original post deleted - I demand to know. Potential buyers have a right to know that FPS games are utterly unplayable with the S.

    This must be fixed.
    If it was in the same vein as this one....
    Well, let's say you probably already know :)

    I believe that the comments so far are only mentioning a couple of games so far that some players have had issues with...
    PC info: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, MSI MPG X570 Edge, 16GB Tforce Pro Dark DDR4 3200, KFA2 RTX 2080 Super, Samsung 870 Pro M.2, 2x 240GB SSD, 3TB WD Green HDD & 4 TB Seagate Barracuda HDD, Antec Modular 750w PSU, custom watercooling loop. (Win 10 Pro & Opensuse Leap 15.1 Linux) 32" AOC 4K Monitor.

    Laptop: Aorus X5 V6-CF1 (I7-6820HK, GTX 1070, 2* 256GB M.2 NVME, 1TB 7200 HDD)
  • ZtreakZtreak Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    edited May 2019
    Interesting question here is, who is doing it wrong?

    Those that dont have issues? Or those that have issues? The game developers?

    My only experience from shooting with rifles is with the AG-3 Heckler & Kochs and MP5 when i was in the Navy here in Norway. 

    My experience when playing FPS games on my CV1 is that where i have to hold my arms in VR to ADS does not feel like a natural position for me at all compared to real life shooting. My hands have to go much closer to my face and further back then what feels natural to get my eyes in the correct position. So imo also something to look into for the devs here.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,001 Volunteer Moderator
    Why was my original post deleted - I demand to know.
    Why was my post removed?
    You tripped the auto spam filter, most likely by including a link to twitter. Your account is now approved, so that shouldn't happen again.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    According to this dude Rift-S doesn't work in Beat Saber either - but probably only if you play on Expert (I don't - I probably won't need super-tracking on Normal or Hard...)

    That’s it. I’ve had enough and have asked to return the rift s

    I’m sad that it reached this point as I so desperately wanted to love this product. Beat Saber is my main go to game. I take it to demo every month to a large group of gamers and was hoping they’d have fab new hardware that was easier for me to lug around and setup each month. Today I’ve had to admit defeat. Perhaps I have a faulty model, who knows. But I can normally s rank on expert. I’m missing the occasional blocks on easy mode right now. Here is my text in my ticket.

    “Im extraordinarily unhappy with the oculus rift s. I’ve been a three year cv1 user and owner. The audio does not function with any level of volume that can be described as functional. It is whisper quiet and I’ve done everything from reinstalling audio drivers to changing usb sockets and making sure volume is turned up on all devices.

    But worst of all is the tracking issues. This device DOES not work. I’ve been a pro player with Beat Saber since it came out. I’m missing blocks on easy levels when I can normally get s rank on expert. I’ve turned off power saving on all usb sockets. I’ve reinstalled oculus software. I’ve closed all windows so there are no reflective surfaces. I’ve open all windows for maximum light. I’ve removed all infrared devices from the room that could cause interference. And it still doesn’t work.

    Beat Saber is my main go to game. Rift s is not good enough to work with this game. I would like to return the hardware. The experience is dramatically inferior to CV1 as far as this game goes”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/bsu43r/thats_it_ive_had_enough_and_have_asked_to_return/

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 824
    3Jane
    edited May 2019
    Hopefully it gets patched, or lighthouse tracked VR will be the new enthusiast 'go to'. I just tried some bows in home and had issues unless I kept the bow lower and horizontal. I was opening some loot boxes while in there and it seems like it's harder to throw things without sticking as well.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    Ztreak said:
    Interesting question here is, who is doing it wrong?

    Those that dont have issues? Or those that have issues? The game developers?

    My only experience from shooting with rifles is with the AG-3 Heckler & Kochs and MP5 when i was in the Navy here in Norway. 

    My experience when playing FPS games on my CV1 is that where i have to hold my arms in VR to ADS does not feel like a natural position for me at all compared to real life shooting. My hands have to go much closer to my face and further back then what feels natural to get my eyes in the correct position. So imo also something to look into for the devs here.

    Just my 2 cents.

    This isn't going to work because as soon as pull your hand back into the rifle position the headset losses tracking. Like I said earlier in one of my posts they should have placed a camera underneath the headset like they did on top. If you mirror a rifle position just now, then you would see that a camera placed underneath the headset would have picked up the controllers.

    A camera underneath the headset could be an inch from the tip of your nose, and your hand controller would be a few inches below your chin but further forwards. Do you see now how a camera placed underneath the headset would be able to see your rifle trigger finger or Bow string when firing a Bow? I'm not sure why they choose to have a camera on top of the headset and not underneath where I believe it was vital to have one for the reasons I've said.

    I tried playing Onward with my hands further forward last night so the front cameras could see my controllers. Not only was this uncomfortable for me and is not like how you hold a rifle, but I also found it put a strain on my arms. Maybe a gun stock would help with the strain on my arms having to have them further forward. But a gun stock wouldn't help you to look down the scopes of a rifle because they get further away as you have to move your hands further forward.. 
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    Beat Saber and Expert (I'm not good enough for +) was fine for me.
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • wanoennogswanoennogs Posts: 166
    Art3mis
    Morgrum said:
    Well hopefully this  an be fixed with a software update.
    No software update is going to be able to fix this major flaw with the Rift S.  The only way to fix it is to allow the Rift sensors to be used with the Rift S.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,202
    3Jane
    Morgrum said:
    Well hopefully this  an be fixed with a software update.
    No software update is going to be able to fix this major flaw with the Rift S.  The only way to fix it is to allow the Rift sensors to be used with the Rift S.
    That's just not true. The hardware takes data. Software interprets the data. Software can be improved to interpret the data better. Read what Mr Carmack said on this. 
    https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1124334345689366528
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,895 Valuable Player

    I think it all depends how much of a compromise the developer's solution is deemed to be. If we're talking only an inch or 2 further away from your headset for a scoped weapon grip, how much of a compromise is it?




    RuneSR2 said:
    MowTin said:
    I'm surprised by all these issues. Seems the YouTubers mislead us. They said the tracking was flawless. It seems we were misled.

    Exactly - even though these reviews were done by so called "experts". It seems to illustrate that these reviews were biased and really cannot be trusted - and that might be worth remembering if a lot of "Index is awesome" reviews are coming from these YouTubers next week.

    We need tests done by users who don't depend on getting new free VR hardware from a supplier. 

    FPS and archery games provide some of the most awesome VR experiences, of course tracking must be perfect in such games.  
    I only trust user reviews, even the Youtubers are paid shills now.  They don't want to be assed out of the next product offering so they can't give bad reviews, they'll bullshit their way through the review because free swag.  The absolute worst I've seen is when Makerbot released their 5th Generation 3d printers and were awarded "best of show" awards for an amazing product at one of the shows.  Later you find out, nobody ever saw any of the printers working because they had issues at the time and the good looking prints on display inside the 5th gen makerbots were actually made on the Generation 4 printers and glued together.  The review was based on what exactly?  Nobody saw them working and the previous models made the example pieces.  ALL reviews are bullshit unless they're user reviews.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    falken76 said:
    ALL reviews are bullshit unless they're user reviews.
    Well user reviews can be BS as well. Anyone can make a Reddit or forum account.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,895 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    ALL reviews are bullshit unless they're user reviews.
    Well user reviews can be BS as well. Anyone can make a Reddit or forum account.
    I find more credibility in user reviews these days.  If Makerbot can get a best of show and the judges never even saw the printers operating, they're paid shills.  I absolutely believe this is how alot of reviews go these days.  The youtubers just want free swag, a bad review means they won't get it next time around.  I can read a ton of user reviews and look for the most common traits that get mentioned over and over by the end user.  For Rift S, it seems to be tracking for FPS games and specifically when you get the tracking close to the face.  End users report this a lot, the reviewers didn't mention this and it should have been more apparent that this was the case.
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    Fair enough.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,985 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    .....
    I only trust user reviews, even the Youtubers are paid shills now.  They don't want to be assed out of the next product offering so they can't give bad reviews, they'll bullshit their way through the review because free swag.  
    ......

    Agree, the situation has become a little more evasive with the "implied threats" being thrown around, such as withholding of review systems, or exclusion from press announcement and show demonstrations (seen with the limited invite lists to CES hotel demos!) We saw a little bit of that hidden pressure being applied to the TESTED team at OC4. It is also a factor why so many did Quest "unboxing" videos as they had been held under embargo and so wanted to capitalise on their hoped "unique access", only to find they were one of many and so lost any perceived exclusivity in selling their soul to be embargoed, (this will be even more magnified when we see how many have been embargoed over Valve Index).

    As one of the Judges of the VR Awards, I have to be extra careful not to get suckered into being invested into one side or the other - there is also the whole issue that in avoiding mentioning issues with product not to "hurt feelings" - and so get excluded from the "friends list" of certain PR teams retained to promote systems. This is a great way to erode credibility for a short term benefit. How many of the shills that promoted certain hardware decisions even in the face of obvious flaws in thinking - in posts and reviews - have now totally lost their credibility, seen as shills to the respective company!
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    At least Oculus allows reviewers to be open and honest with any critiques and concerns they have; Even the people given paid airfare / tickets to GDC  were highly critical of the hardware  (when they weren't too busy enjoying the games).   Hell, most of them were telling CV1 owners that we didn't need to upgrade to Rift-S... does that sound like shilling to you?

    Meanwhile if you want to get within 100 feet of an Index, you have to sell your soul to Valve.  It was the same before the Vive came out, when every review for it was 100% positive, lots of obviously exaggerated reactions from the youtubers, and even all the video thumbnails and titles followed very specific formula.   Anyone could see that they were all under some kind of contract in exchange for getting the device half a year before any of its preorderers could...  and they all almost entirely stopped making Vive videos as soon as it released, despite all that feigned enthusiasm for it.


    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,985 Valuable Player
    Yes @CrashFu - I agree with the replacing of the executive pool, we saw new thinking and we had a more open and broader reviewing process. Though we did see some selective placement - what we see with all PR agency business. 

    Valve is a different kettle of fish, and to be frank the previous Oculus management modelled a lot of their media handling style on their previous association with GabeN and Valve!

    As one that has tried to deal with Valve I am no fan of the walled-garden approach, but when you see the success of Steam (whatever your opinion) you least understand why they stick to their draconian approach. This will one day come to bit them in the butt.

    I think you will be surprised to see who all in the VR community is under Valve and Valve-dev embargo. A lot of them have masterfully kept their powder dry till the Quest / Rift-S frenzy dies down. Then we will see the true value of the investment made into promoting the Index.

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,879 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    they stick to their draconian approach. This will one day come to bit them in the butt.

    VR Arcades are also draconian, yet you have advocated their success for years. I'm not fan of Valve, but they are far less draconian that the idea of returning to Facility-based arcade entertainment. I've often stated that VR Arcades are too draconian, and that anyone investing in this field will likely have the results "bit them in the butt." I find it interesting that my opinion on the matter has made you upset, yet you are doing the exact same thing here with your reaction to Valve.


    Not to mention that VR Arcades and Facility-based VR relies heavily on the idea of a walled-garden, by deploying VR attractions that cannot be simulated at home. There's nothing more walled-garden then that.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,274 Valuable Player
    seems to have got a little off tracking here 😀
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,879 Valuable Player
    seems to have got a little off tracking here

    It's been off track for about 2 days.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    Morgrum said:
    Well hopefully this  an be fixed with a software update.
    No software update is going to be able to fix this major flaw with the Rift S.  The only way to fix it is to allow the Rift sensors to be used with the Rift S.
    That's just not true. The hardware takes data. Software interprets the data. Software can be improved to interpret the data better. Read what Mr Carmack said on this. 
    https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1124334345689366528

    How long does it actually take them to realise this and fix it? They have had an ample amount of time to work on fixing this. Oculus Quest has being in development for years using the same type of tracking.

    The dead spot is below the headset and that's where it needs constant tracking. That's where your trigger finger is for your rifle when resting your elbow comfortable at your side to give you a steady aim. If you move your hand further forward it's uncomfortable, but the scope on the rifle also moves forward making it hard to look down the scope.

    I'm not sure how software is going to fix this when there is no camera underneath the headset that tracks your controllers. I'm hoping wrong and they they can fix it. I just hope they enable the external camera's though, which will definitely fix it.
  • JeremyC85JeremyC85 Posts: 316
    Trinity
    I've actually had pretty good tracking the first several days in games like Pavlov and In Death. For whatever reason however, today my tracking has been ALL OVER THE PLACE. Can't aim my bow for sh1t and it seems to be the lead hand that is messing up... this is very strange... Maybe a power problem?? Shows both batteries at 100% 
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,006 Valuable Player
    Am guessing there will be external camera support now sooner then expected 
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @JeremyC85 - Are you using a gun stock? I find having just the controllers further out in front of me is not only tiring, but that my aim also goes to shite because I cannot rest my elbow on my side where it is comfy. The scope also moves further forward when my controllers have to be used further out in front of me, which makes it impossible to look down the scope properly.

    I've gone back to using CV1 for these games now.

    Edit @vannagirl - Well I hope so because it can't come soon enough if Oculus decide to do this. I've hated having to go back to using my Rift CV1, just so that I can play my First Person Shooters both comfortable and properly. I don't want to keep switching headsets to suit certain games.
Sign In or Register to comment.