New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

Rift S - Please read before you buy - Tracking problems with realistic FPS sims & Archery

145791012

Comments

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,274 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @RedRizla I reserved after 3 hours of launch m8 and I am in August as well. I think they had a box of 50. :)
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    edited May 2019
    RedRizla said:
    @Luciferous - Thankfully I won't have to do that if it becomes a mod, because I will have both Rift -S and Valve index shortly. Just waiting to hear about the Valve index more before deciding to purchase. it's definitely going to hurt my wallet all this because I'll soon be upgrading my Graphics card too.

    I recently upgraded my GPU from GTX 1060 to RTX 2080 and it's simply amazing. I've been running all my VR games on high settings and they look beautiful. And yeah your right, it has been a very expensive month - £700 for GPU + £400 for Rift S!! - And I'm saving for mortgage too! lol

    RedRizla said:
    @Luciferous - I already did that, but have to wait until August to get mine. Wish I had done it sooner because I have the money for it now.

    Yeah I reserved mine too and delivery was delayed, think it says 31st August for delivery. I think Rune said in the "Rift S user reviews" thread that the NDA or whatever it's called is lifted next week so then we will get proper reviews for Valve Index and will find out more about it's problems. So far I've only heard one negative thing which is god rays but I never noticed god rays when in-game with my CV1 so I don't think it would bother me with Index. Plus it's a small price to pay for that extra FOV!    :D

    I was thinking last night, if they allowed people to add cameras to the headset, is there a USB port on it still?

    I bet the community could come up with some interesting solutions. Maybe for the back blind spot a clip on camera that extends out of the back of your head and looks down or maybe an aerial extension with a camera on top that looks down. It wouldn't have to be very tall just enough to get a little distance from the controller.

    I had had a few drinks last night though.



    lol nice picture mate, you don't look anything like I imagined! haha  :p
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @SkScotchegg - One review already in and it looks like it ticks all the boxes. This review is also done by a dev, so he's not just talking it up like some YouTubers do. This was posted in another thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpWCOT4XnRY
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    @SkScotchegg - One review already in and it looks like it ticks all the boxes. This review is also done by a dev, so he's not just talking it up like some YouTubers do. This was posted in another thread.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpWCOT4XnRY

    Nice 1 thanks, I'll check this out now!  :)
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • judgefudge101judgefudge101 Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    edited May 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4&feature=youtu.be
    here is a demonstration and review of all the onwards/fps rift S issues, apologies for the shitty video quality.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4

    here is a demonstration and review of all the onwards/fps rift S issues, apologies for the shitty video quality.

    It's not the quality of the video it's the fact that there's no video to see. The link is broken and doesn't work.
  • judgefudge101judgefudge101 Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    RedRizla said:
    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4

    here is a demonstration and review of all the onwards/fps rift S issues, apologies for the shitty video quality.

    It's not the quality of the video it's the fact that there's no video to see. The link is broken and doesn't work.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4&feature=youtu.be

    the link feature on the post broke the link, here it is.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    RedRizla said:
    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4

    here is a demonstration and review of all the onwards/fps rift S issues, apologies for the shitty video quality.

    It's not the quality of the video it's the fact that there's no video to see. The link is broken and doesn't work.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UBlJTSU_4&feature=youtu.be

    the link feature on the post broke the link, here it is.

    This just proves what some people in this thread have been saying. The proof is in this video unless someone wants to put up a video up that disproves it?
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    edited May 2019
    A new guy joined the forum this morning with just 1 post to his name, I'm just copying and pasting his post from the other thread as he might not come back and best to keep the discussion regarding realistic FPS sims like Onward etc in one thread:

    When the controllers are close to the headset i lose the tracking of the controllers, even if  the controller is clearly in front of a camera. This happens especially when playing a shooter game where i have to hold a weapon and look through the sight. The issue is so bad that i think i will return the device, i just cant play games like Onward anymore, because i just can't aim anymore :-(


    Another unsatisfied customer!  :#
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,454 Volunteer Moderator

    I know I keep banging on about this but if posters could try to search for existing threads on a subject before creating new ones that would be great. I see there are 3 threads right now in the top 10 on the same subject. It really helps to have all the helpful suggestions and reports of problems in one place so other people can respond and follow the progress much more easily.

    I think this thread is probably the most visited on the subject of tracking issues, especially related to gun sites and bows & arrows so probably this is the thread to aim for (pun intended).

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • Cowboy10ukCowboy10uk Posts: 18
    NerveGear
    Interesting, so it is usable to a degree, but appreciate there are some significant design flaws with the new tracking then. 

    Big question however is how on earth can it be fixed, IF it can be fixed without redesigning the headset and adding extra cameras.  There is only so much you can do with software, and if the cameras are losing hard tracking of the controllers at close range, I can’t see how without using different cameras or redesigning the headset, this issue can be fixed.

    Then if Oculus do redesign the headset or replace the cameras, will those who bought it at the start get a free upgrade, or are they stuck with a system that has significant flaws.

    I honestly find it hard to believe that after all the years development, seeing how the consumers are using VR headsets that Oculus can drop the ball this badly.  I know when it was sold to Facebook many of us were concerned that Facebook would just go for max profit and cheap components, rather than aiming for the best headset, I guess sadly we were right.

    dammit. 


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    @DaftnDirect - I agree, but they probably looked and at this thread and saw that Oculus hasn't responded to this one. Because they are new they then create another thread thinking that Oculus might give them an answer to the problem. I don't think they realise that Oculus don't give answers to these types of posts full stop. 
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    edited May 2019

    I know I keep banging on about this but if posters could try to search for existing threads on a subject before creating new ones that would be great. I see there are 3 threads right now in the top 10 on the same subject. It really helps to have all the helpful suggestions and reports of problems in one place so other people can respond and follow the progress much more easily.

    I think this thread is probably the most visited on the subject of tracking issues, especially related to gun sites and bows & arrows so probably this is the thread to aim for (pun intended).



    Well, if it was up to me this thread would be sticked at the top of the forums as I'm sure there's going to be a flood of customers joining the forums just to complain about this particular issue in the coming weeks/months.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,926 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019
    I can now see why Oculus Quest doesn't have the bad tracking the Rift S has near to the headset. After looking at them both the Rift S has 2 cameras higher up on the front, but the Oculus Quest has these 2 camera's at the base of the headset, so the tracking is much better because it can see a bit below the headset as well as in front of the headset. 

    I never looked at them side by side before until now. The Rift S side camera's do nothing to fill that dead zone that's underneath because they just cover the sides. Just look at where the Rifts S front camera's are compared to the Oculus Quest camera's that are at the bottom of the headset. Even the guy in the YouTube video above is talking about a camera being placed underneath the Rift S.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    edited May 2019
    RedRizla said:
    I can now see why Oculus Quest doesn't have the bad tracking the Rift S has near to the headset. After looking at them both the Rift S has 2 cameras higher up on the front, but the Oculus Quest has these 2 camera's at the base of the headset, so the tracking is much better because it can see a bit below the headset as well as in front of the headset. 

    I never looked at them side by side before until now. The Rift S side camera's do nothing to fill that dead zone that's underneath because they just cover the sides. Just look at where the Rifts S front camera's are compared to the Oculus Quest camera's that are at the bottom of the headset. Even the guy in the YouTube video above is talking about a camera being placed underneath the Rift S.

    Yeah I totally agree mate, there should definitely me a camera underneath.

    If it was me making it I'd of put 2 more cameras underneath covering all areas and I'd of put 2 on the side, 2 on the front 1 on top and 1 on the back. so 8 cameras at least. 

    What's that old saying? If your going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all?

    I think we're stuck with this situation now tbh, the more I think about it, the more I realise this isn't going to get fixed with software. It's such a shame they didn't test it more and get it perfect before release by adding more cameras where needed. 

    I reckon I've made my mind up now and will almost definitely be purchasing Valve Index to see me thought to CV2 which will hopefully be released next year.

    I'm happy I kept my CV1 now as I can still enjoy Onward/Pavlov/Contractors with that HMD which has upto now, never let me down.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,454 Volunteer Moderator
    RedRizla said:
    @DaftnDirect - I agree, but they probably looked and at this thread and saw that Oculus hasn't responded to this one. Because they are new they then create another thread thinking that Oculus might give them an answer to the problem. I don't think they realise that Oculus don't give answers to these types of posts full stop.

    From past experience I think they answer when they can, admittedly not often!

    The answer to this isn't necessary going to come from Oculus, unless you're looking for hardware changes such as additional camera on the headset which isn't going to answer for this generation of headset anyway.

    Well whatever the solution, I think multiple threads happen on all subjects... problems and non-problems alike so I think it's just useful to have a reminder of how useful it is to have consolidated threads.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Oculus notice single threads with high view and post counts just as much as multiple threads with low counts... perhaps more so when that thread bumps repeatedly to the top. At the very least it helps forum members who are looking for ways to minimise the problem and those who want to suggest things without wanting to repeat it in all the other similar threads.

    It also helps keep other threads on the first or second page of the forum where people may have other problems that they feel are equally important but otherwise get missed by members.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • Foxy_Foxy_ Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    same problem here cant play fps at all aiming down the sight. thinking of return it. dont think it can be fixed by software. its a design flaw
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,670 Valuable Player
    Letting us use the cv1 sensors with the S would solve everything
    WAAAGH!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,281 Valuable Player
    Foxy_ said:
    same problem here cant play fps at all aiming down the sight. thinking of return it. dont think it can be fixed by software. its a design flaw

    It'll get fixed. The WVR inside out tracking was a real clusterfuck at launch and was much improved after a couple of months. Carmack is on the case and he probably eats predictive algorithms for breakfast every morning lol  :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Cowboy10ukCowboy10uk Posts: 18
    NerveGear
    snowdog said:
    Foxy_ said:
    same problem here cant play fps at all aiming down the sight. thinking of return it. dont think it can be fixed by software. its a design flaw

    It'll get fixed. The WVR inside out tracking was a real clusterfuck at launch and was much improved after a couple of months. Carmack is on the case and he probably eats predictive algorithms for breakfast every morning lol  :D
    Don’t know much about the WVR tracking issues, but are you saying that they DID manage to fix the issues with a software fix alone? 

    If that is the case, then that is quite promising. Personally I haven’t a clue how they would be able to do it, unless they have restricted the camera ability to start with. 

    Im just hoping they do find a way to sort out these issues. 
  • JaseyMitchJaseyMitch Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    Adding my 2 pence worth: the first thing I did when I got my S was to play In Death and that's when it all fell apart very quickly. Drawing the bow back to the neck/chin area causes the tracking to freeze. The only way I can play it is by pulling back to chest height only, but that doesn't allow me to do a full draw. Or you can play fast, without careful aiming. I guess the gyro-thingies play a part here, and you don't notice any tracking issues because you're doing quick draw-release, without pausing or 'aiming down the sites'. I also experienced similar issues with QuiVR.

    I am very torn. I love the display, and those awful god-rays are much, much reduced, but if I keep me S then I can't play archery games anymore unless I hold the bow oddly. I tried that, but it's so immersion-breaking and irritating that I gave up. I have Apex Construct in my library (got in a sale a while ago) but I am not sure I'll even bother loading it. I am very surprised this flaw got through testing. I would have thought VR archery and FPS games are very popular and a new headset needs to work with them. I'm looking forward to No Man's Sky VR, and Alien Isolation is incredible, but knowing that I can't play archery games is a huge consideration. It's one of my fave VR things. I posted about this on the In Death Steam discussion, and right away got a reply from someone saying they have no problems... well, I'm not imagining it and my headset is not faulty. I have feeling this is not going to be fixable, unless some very clever software can predict positioning somehow. I have no idea. It's the tiny changes you make to your aim that software won't be able to help with. If the headset can't 'see' close-up stuff then it'll never work well with some gestures/games. I am torn between keeping it and eBay... the screen is great.
  • Foxy_Foxy_ Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    ill have till day 27 june to return it, ill wait some days , if not fixed, return for sure
  • Z6E1Z9OZ6E1Z9O Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    I just hope they let us use external sensors as soon as possible at this point,but if they allowed that,do you think 1 sensor is enough?
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    Onward devs also stated they are working on an update to support the Rift S tracking.  We can't fully judge how bad S will be until that update releases.
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,159 Valuable Player
    :
    Z6E1Z9O said:
    I just hope they let us use external sensors as soon as possible at this point,but if they allowed that,do you think 1 sensor is enough?
    You need 360 coverage, so 2 is minimum.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    edited May 2019
    Adding my 2 pence worth: the first thing I did when I got my S was to play In Death and that's when it all fell apart very quickly. Drawing the bow back to the neck/chin area causes the tracking to freeze. The only way I can play it is by pulling back to chest height only, but that doesn't allow me to do a full draw. Or you can play fast, without careful aiming. I guess the gyro-thingies play a part here, and you don't notice any tracking issues because you're doing quick draw-release, without pausing or 'aiming down the sites'. I also experienced similar issues with QuiVR.

    I am very torn. I love the display, and those awful god-rays are much, much reduced, but if I keep me S then I can't play archery games anymore unless I hold the bow oddly. I tried that, but it's so immersion-breaking and irritating that I gave up. I have Apex Construct in my library (got in a sale a while ago) but I am not sure I'll even bother loading it. I am very surprised this flaw got through testing. I would have thought VR archery and FPS games are very popular and a new headset needs to work with them. I'm looking forward to No Man's Sky VR, and Alien Isolation is incredible, but knowing that I can't play archery games is a huge consideration. It's one of my fave VR things. I posted about this on the In Death Steam discussion, and right away got a reply from someone saying they have no problems... well, I'm not imagining it and my headset is not faulty. I have feeling this is not going to be fixable, unless some very clever software can predict positioning somehow. I have no idea. It's the tiny changes you make to your aim that software won't be able to help with. If the headset can't 'see' close-up stuff then it'll never work well with some gestures/games. I am torn between keeping it and eBay... the screen is great.

    I feel the same mate, the display is great but the more days that go by, the more games I try, the more issues I've got with the tracking.

    Z6E1Z9O said:
    I just hope they let us use external sensors as soon as possible at this point,but if they allowed that,do you think 1 sensor is enough?

    Not really mate, I mean, you could use 1 sensor for front facing for some games but ideally it's 2 sensors minimum for front facing, and ideally you don't just want to be able to face one one, so I'd say 3 sensors is what is needed in order for every single game to run perfectly smooth.

    I have 3 sensors with CV1 spread around my room in a triangle shape and it works perfectly and covers all areas.

    Onward devs also stated they are working on an update to support the Rift S tracking.  We can't fully judge how bad S will be until that update releases.

    At this point, I have got very fed up with Rift S after 10 days of playing with it.

    Even tonight when switching to advanced mode on AUDICA, a game I thought ran perfectly fine on Rift S it doesn't work in advanced difficulty. There's certain objects the guns fail to hit, you have to aim in a weird way in order to hit them. The only way I could get the tracking to work was to turn the guns on their side.

    And just now I was playing Superhot and had issues with tracking in that too. It wasn't as bad as realistic FPS/Archery games but it was there every now and again.

    At this point in the game, I can't recommend Rift S to anybody. I think I have come to the conclusion that it's quite a big disappointment.

    I'm going to change my review score to 5/10 now because it's only 50% complete, it's basically a lovely screen with really poor tracking. I would instantly bump my score back up to 9/10 if they enable Constellation tracking, other wise now for me at this point, I'm at the end of the line, I'm just so frustrated with it.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,281 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Foxy_ said:
    same problem here cant play fps at all aiming down the sight. thinking of return it. dont think it can be fixed by software. its a design flaw

    It'll get fixed. The WVR inside out tracking was a real clusterfuck at launch and was much improved after a couple of months. Carmack is on the case and he probably eats predictive algorithms for breakfast every morning lol  :D
    Don’t know much about the WVR tracking issues, but are you saying that they DID manage to fix the issues with a software fix alone? 

    If that is the case, then that is quite promising. Personally I haven’t a clue how they would be able to do it, unless they have restricted the camera ability to start with. 

    Im just hoping they do find a way to sort out these issues. 

    Well they still have problems due to only having two cameras so there are more blind spots but for the first month or two the tracking was godawful.

    Oculus also need to address something important during the setup, people should be made aware during the setup process that changing the Room Lighting Frequency can change the tracking for the better.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    edited May 2019
    Preview of the soon to release Onward virtual stock.  It was said the virtual stock will lock to your shoulder.


    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • TheRealCyberTheRealCyber Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    That looks pretty solid to me. Never played the game though.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RuneSR2 said:
    vannagirl said:
    Am guessing there will be external camera support now sooner then expected 

    Some weeks (or a month) ago one dude on Reddit explained that it will not be possible to use your old external sensors for Rift-S due technical incompatibilities. The systems are different (like old sensor don't need light to work), but I'd love for all this to be wrong and be able to use my external sensors with a new HMD - but I'm not betting any money on that ever happening ;)
    Nate Mitchell told Norm of Tested they use the same Constellation tracking system. They both have infrared LEDs in the rings, picked up by infrared cameras. Or at least cameras capable of seeing the infrared. Norm then asked if they'd consider combing the external sensors, and Mitchell said they'd listen to what the people wanted. At the very least, he didn't say it wasn't possible. But even if the headset used a different tracking system for the controllers...as long as the headset tracks itself, then combing the external sensors would mean you'd be using the original Touch. But seeing as the new Touch 2.0 still has infrared LEDs, then they should work as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.