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HP Reverb First Impressions Thread (Gen 1)

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  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,744 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    HTC already said it's not going to be $900 because that's to high. 
    The running joke at the moment is it's $899 to counter the "it's not $900 because that's too high" HTC remark. 




    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    edited June 26
    I expect they will charge $700, but are the four things I mentioned in my post worth $300 more? When you consider the Valve index headset alone costs more then $700 and HTC Cosmos has the same resolution displays as that headset I start to wonder if it is worth it.
    But it's also about build quality like I previously mentioned.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,470 Valuable Player

    Not as good as the HP Reverb then and marginally better than the index on res but not on Hz.


    Index also has dual lenses, Cosmos has single lenses? Then there's FOV, and Index controllers... 

    Cosmos controllers look like the new Touch - and maybe HMD flip up is a good thing. Cosmos also has gesture controls, maybe that will be interesting...




    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    The flip up thing will be great for developers!

    I just can't help feeling that HTC are going to price themselves out of the market again though.

    Valve also had an opportunity to release a Rift S killer but passed it up. If the Index was £720 I would have jumped on it.

    The cheapest I can see the Cosmos being is £599 but if they release it for £399 things could get VERY interesting, particularly with the issues that have plagued the Rift S launch so far.

    I'm expecting the Rift S price to drop to £349 around Christmas and possibly £299 this time next year, although a permanent price cut to £349 is more likely. Oculus will be making a decent profit on Rift S sales right now so they have room to manoeuvre if HTC get aggressive with their pricing.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,704 Valuable Player
    edited June 26
    snowdog said:
    .....
    I'm expecting the Rift S price to drop to £349 around Christmas and possibly £299 this time next year, although a permanent price cut to £349 is more likely. Oculus will be making a decent profit on Rift S sales right now so they have room to manoeuvre if HTC get aggressive with their pricing.

    How long was it before the price dropped on the CV1 after it launched?

    Also if HTC get aggressive with Cosmos pricing (say from $799 too $499), as they did with the VIVE - would not its better graphical performance and design elements swing the balance?

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    @snowdog - How can it possibly be £399 when that is the price of Rift S? HTC Cosmos has higher res displays, headphones, an ipd adjustment and an extra camera. With those things added you have to expect around $200 more or it just means Rift S is way overpriced, if HTC match the price of Rift S.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    .....
    I'm expecting the Rift S price to drop to £349 around Christmas and possibly £299 this time next year, although a permanent price cut to £349 is more likely. Oculus will be making a decent profit on Rift S sales right now so they have room to manoeuvre if HTC get aggressive with their pricing.

    How long was it before the price dropped on the CV1 after it launched?

    Also if HTC get aggressive with Cosmos pricing (say from $799 too $499), as they did with the VIVE - would not its better graphical performance and design elements swing the balance?


    About a year I think. The resolution of both the Index and the Cosmos aren't that much bigger than the Rift S tbh. 1440p vs 1600p. And because Oculus decided to go for 80Hz displays the minimum specs are the same.

    RedRizla said:
    @snowdog - How can it possibly be £399 when that is the price of Rift S? HTC Cosmos has higher res displays, headphones, an ipd adjustment and an extra camera. With those things added you have to expect around $200 more or it just means Rift S is way overpriced, if HTC match the price of Rift S.

    If the Quest is sold at cost Oculus will be making a decent profit selling the Rift S for £399. The Rift S IS way overpriced. They could have launched it for £299 without losing money on it.

    HTC should be able to release the Cosmos for £399 without losing money on it. They want people in their Store.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,704 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    ......
    If the Quest is sold at cost Oculus will be making a decent profit....

    HTC should be able to release the Cosmos for £399 without losing money on it. They want people in their Store.

    Thanks for the Oculus price drop info - I was not sure it was a year or 14-months, but close enough.

    Regarding the "decent profit" - that requires some major assumptions - we have no idea of the scope of licensing deal for Lenovo to pick up the manufacturer and support of the Rift-S - if its anything like what Samsung leaked their deal with Oculus was like on GearVR it may not see Oculus making that big.

    Also, all the speculation that HTC is at deaths door - though I agree they are in a garbage financial state, they have managed to get some good support deals - and along with the Google money there is their 5G partnership with Qualcomm. Along with the Cosmos 5G wireless announcement there is some options on the table that could see them focus (in VR) away from mainly consumer (so slowing their rush for a cost reduction).



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    The licence deal with Lenovo will be a percentage deal, these things tend to be 5% of each sale at the most but let's say that Facebook aren't able to negotiate well and it's as much as 7%. It really isn't that much.

    The biggest savings are the inclusion of the BOE display and the sound tubes. It's the exact same display that the Go has had for more than a year so the manufacturing costs must have come down quite a bit, same for the sound tubes too.

    Compared to the Quest there's bugger all to speak of inside the thing. No RAM, no Snapdragon 835, no battery, no manual IPD adjustment.

    They're probably selling the Quest at cost and they're probably making around a hundred dollars profit on each Rift S sold right now, and in a year's time they'll cut those manufacturing costs down even further.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    And forget about the Google money, the vast majority of that probably paid off some of their debt.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,704 Valuable Player
    Yeah, you are kitting the numbers I had deduced from the previous Samsung and Microsoft co-release scope of business. Though I think Oculus may have come off badly in the bundle of the gamepads with the CV1 initially (adding to the bad blood). A 6-7% split was what I was toying with. 

    Also agree that the Rift-S has a very short bill-of-goods compared to the Quest so that is why I was surprised at the similar price point - though I think like you share this is part of the fat that can be trimmed to offer a nice price reduction for March 2020 on the Rift-S. 

    For me it will be interesting of Lenovo does consider a redesign on the Rift-S or even a Rift-S Plus? Also I wonder in Lenovo will go the same way as Samsung regarding the longevity of this partnership?

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    They won't do that because it would be an Oculus decision, and they won't want any confusion by adding another Rift S version.

    What Oculus WILL do, sooner rather than later, is sort out the software issues that Rift S owners are experiencing, getting rid of the white flashes, black screens and improving the tracking.

    Once they sort that all out the thing will sell a shitload.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    edited June 26
    snowdog said:

    RedRizla said:
    @snowdog - How can it possibly be £399 when that is the price of Rift S? HTC Cosmos has higher res displays, headphones, an ipd adjustment and an extra camera. With those things added you have to expect around $200 more or it just means Rift S is way overpriced, if HTC match the price of Rift S.

    If the Quest is sold at cost Oculus will be making a decent profit selling the Rift S for £399. The Rift S IS way overpriced. They could have launched it for £299 without losing money on it.

    HTC should be able to release the Cosmos for £399 without losing money on it. They want people in their Store.
    Every company is out to make a profit, but VR companies are not like Sony who can sell a PS console at cost and make profits selling their games. The HTC Cosmos will be around $600 to $700 and given what it includes that isn't a bad price from a company trying to make a profit. If it's anymore then $700 then it's expensive, but I would say $600 is a fair very price if that's what it sells for.
    The chances of it selling for £399 are very slim indeed.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,042 Valuable Player
    I didn't say it was likely, I said it would make things interesting. Given that it's only a 1600p headset they could probably sell it for 400 at cost.

    They'll probably sell it for a ridiculous amount of money though because as I said earlier the company has been run by idiots for years.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,534 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    kevinw729 said:
    How long was it before the price dropped on the CV1 after it launched?
    About a year I think.
    First CV1 shipped end of march 2016 (most way later though, we didn't all get a hand delivery by Palmer).
    First Touch shipped early december 2016.
    First price drop ($100 off headset and $100 off Touch) 1st of march 2017 during GDC.

    So about 11 months for the headset and 3 months for Touch.


    Anybody else see the news that Microsoft have dropped most WMR headsets from their store? The US store has just the Odyssey+ (with Asus and Lenovo as out of stock) and the Australian store has no headsets. The Dell, Asus, Acer and Lenovo online stores don't list their own headsets anymore and Amazon has stock down to single digits.

    Looks like the Odyssey+ and Reverb are the only surviving Windows MR headsets, the rest are discontinued.



  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    edited June 26

    FX2K said:
    Well, I was happy to wait for my replacement reverb, roughly 3 weeks worth of waiting to do.
    Today, out of the blue, that's no longer the case.

    Thank you for your recent order for the above item.

    You may be aware this is currently out of stock, however, due to high demand the estimated date we anticipate new stock arriving has been extended and we have had to cancel your order. I sincerely apologise for this, however, as soon as we have visibility of new stock arriving, we will call you, and you can place a new order, with a £50.00 discount, as a goodwill gesture.

    As you opted to pay by debit/credit card, no funds have been captured by HP, and you card issuer will release the authorisation hold in around 3 business days, allowing you access to your money.

    I guess there are too many units with defects... because cancelling a replacement due to "high demand" doesn't make sense to me.  Well, that's that then.  Crossed of my list, even though I was impressed by the headset initially.

    Yes, you would think they had replacements for faulty ones already. It's also a bit daft of a company to expect people to wait for a replacement without giving them a proper date for that replacement. So I guess that's why they wouldn't let me pre-order another one after I cancelled because they don't have a clue what's happening with the headset now.
    I don't even see it on Amazon.com and I thought the consumer version was going on sale on Amazon.com and at Best Buy?
    All I know, whatever the price, whatever the headset, whatever the platform, VR is struggling at the mo unless somebody pulls their finger out of their arse and sorts things out. Pricing, QC and cross compatibility are some of the biggest issues.

    Yes, VR is being ruined by companies who just want to put anything out there without even testing their products atm. I can only assume they aren't testing their products properly because of how littered these forums are becoming with problems about different VR headsets.

    What's funny about all this is that these VR companies are making such silly mistakes that people like us pick up on straight away. The HP Reverb with it's heavy cable -why? Rift -S no camera underneath the headset to track your hand like on the HTC Cosmos -why?

    How are these VR headsets making it through testing without someone saying: "This cable is a bit heavy on this, or we need to have a camera underneath this because some games like FPS aren't working properly". It beggars belief it really does.



  • forestguyforestguy Posts: 167
    Art3mis
    edited June 27
    Techy111 said:
    All I know, whatever the price, whatever the headset, whatever the platform, VR is struggling at the mo unless somebody pulls their finger out of their arse and sorts things out. Pricing, QC and cross compatibility are some of the biggest issues.
    Yes I agree, most headsets at the moment are not covering themselves with glory apart from the Oculus Quest, which lives up to what is says on the tin (albeit limited amount of software although extendable with sideload/ALVR).
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    edited June 27
    Well I just phoned HP today and was put through to a department that told me they are waiting to release a new model of the HP Reverb. So it looks like they will be updating the existing model if what I heard was correct. I will definitely hold of until this new model is available now and that could be in November from what I was told.
    That's not they only news I heard either today. I just purchased a 2080Ti and rumors are the Nvidia are going to launch a Nvidia 2080 super that has the performance of a Geforce 2080ti for around $799 this july. So wasted £300 if they do or I could have purchased a Geforce 2080ti super for the same price as my Geforce 2080ti. I'm pished right off if this happens because I only got a Geforce 2080ti mainly for the HP Reverb. I could have waited if i'd know about the HP Reverb problems.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    Asked for a refund and am keeping my CV1 and just ordering a DJI mavic pro drone, so sod em lol
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    Well I'll be getting the HTC Cosmos or Valve index now or I might just say bollox to VR altogether if these company's keep putting out crap that's not exactly cheap.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    Well I'll give HP credit, they called me back just now and apologised and said they are not sending out any replacements now and are waiting for the new model. As the poster above, I got 50 quid off the new reverb and bumped to first offer when released. Can't argue with that.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    You must be still in the return window for the TI mate ?
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,744 Valuable Player
    Any news when this new model will be available guys?

    Does this mean you're back in team HP Techy or you out for good now.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    Nah I'll wait for the new model 100 percent mate, my rep said a couple months but no firm date.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    edited June 27
    @Shadowmask72 - The guy told me new models are normally done in November. In a way I'm glad their doing a new model because it looked like the old one had a fair few problems.
    @Techy - I sold my other graphics card though and it's just a rumor at the moment from Nvidia. I think this is the super thing Nvidia are talking about though. I may as well just keep the Geforce 2080ti because it does 4k at 60Hz and it will be good for another 5 years for what I need it for.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,744 Valuable Player
    November is too long a wait for me. I think it's possible Pimax will have the 8KX out by then and the Vive Cosmos might be worth looking at if the price is right.

    <insert Robocop I'd buy that for a dollar gif>


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,704 Valuable Player
    November is too long a wait for me. I think it's possible Pimax will have the 8KX out by then and the Vive Cosmos might be worth looking at if the price is right.

    <insert Robocop I'd buy that for a dollar gif>


    Done!

    Seriously - I have heard some issues with the current structure of Pimax - trying to get a bead on their financials and the internal operation. Seems after CES they have gone dark, with lots of restructuring reported - another OSVR?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • FX2KFX2K Posts: 268
    Nexus 6
    edited June 27
    A new model.. interesting.  The current model didn't really "release" properly, seems only a handful got to have a physical unit.  Guess it will be a revision, different display panels & possibly cable, since those two things seem to be the most problematic.  Nobody mentioned new model to me, but to be fair, I didn't exactly ask, but just have :wink:

    CV1: Ordered 6th Jan 2016 - Est Delivery Some time in May...
    DK2: Ordered: 8th of Aug 2014 - Delivered: 14 Oct 2014
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    FX2K said:
    A new model.. interesting.  The current model didn't really "release" properly, seems only a handful got to have a physical unit.  Guess it will be a revision, different display panels & possibly cable, since those two things seem to be the most problematic.  Nobody mentioned new model to me, but to be fair, I didn't exactly ask.
    I never asked mate, they told me which I found refreshingly honest and up front. I'll wait til the next reiteration and purchase as soon as :)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • FX2KFX2K Posts: 268
    Nexus 6
    I was told something different.. nothing new there :pensive:

    Thank you for your email.

    The only information that we have is that we are due stock around the end of July.

    We do not have any details regarding a new model yet.


    CV1: Ordered 6th Jan 2016 - Est Delivery Some time in May...
    DK2: Ordered: 8th of Aug 2014 - Delivered: 14 Oct 2014
This discussion has been closed.