The Index thread (please keep to subject) - Page 14 — Oculus
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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    Techy111 said:
    Any users on here with the index and our Flyinside Flight Sim can test if the headset works ok under SteamVR option please :)
    It works great for me, no issues that I could see. Played Beta 2. Zero glare that I noticed too.

    RedRizla said:
    @pyroth309 - If something was bugging the shit out of me i'd have to return it, but that's just me. The Rift S tracking was bugging the shit out of me and I returned it before they fixed it. I'm just waiting to see what HTC Cosmos has to offer now and at what price before I purchase another headset. I'll avoid the Valve index though due to the glare because that would bug the shit out of me.
    I had hoped Valve index would be the VR headset for me due to it's premium design, but some of it's problems have put me right off it. At £920 I wouldn't want any anything bugging me and that's how I look at it.
    Yep ditto and that's my dilemma. Still trying to figure out if I can live with it or not. I've tried multiple readjustments and ipd settings and I've gotten it pretty minimized lately. Just trying to run through as many games/lighting as I can to make a decision.

    Hoping I'll have more time this weekend to finalize my opinion. I'm not worried about the price if it's a headset I want to use everyday and besides the glare it fits that category. If it's just going to bug me consistently I'm going to return it. I'm also trying to give it enough time to not make a hasty conclusion as every headset I've used has tradeoffs. 
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,380 Volunteer Moderator
    @pyroth309 so no issues ? Straight into the sim ok ? Superstar thanks mate I'll let Dan know ;)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    @pyroth309 so no issues ? Straight into the sim ok ? Superstar thanks mate I'll let Dan know ;)
    The only issue I may have had is I'm not sure if the controller mappings took for the Knuckles. But I flew with VR controls like I usually do and it was fine. But other than that, yea straight into the game. Looked great in Index. 
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,380 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah the knuckles might be a problem, if you are willing to be a tester if we get knuckles running you up for that mate ?
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    Yeah the knuckles might be a problem, if you are willing to be a tester if we get knuckles running you up for that mate ?
    Yea sure, my time is limited as one of my kids has been in hospital with pneumonia (doing better now just not released yet) and I've been spending a lot of time there this week. But I should have some time tomorrow and this weekend. 
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,380 Volunteer Moderator
    Great mate I'll let you know. And as a dad of 4 I hope your kid is better soon, I know how hard pneumonia is on youngsters.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,380 Volunteer Moderator
    Ahhh but I win on every count. My kiddies are a boy aged 2 and three girls.... aged 5 - 31 and 34 ;)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    Techy111 said:
    Ahhh but I win on every count. My kiddies are a boy aged 2 and three girls.... aged 5 - 31 and 34 ;)

    Ok - but that only counts as 2 kids in here, might have to redo the statistics and work on another hypothesis, lol ;) Mine are 7, 11 and 15. I guess I'm more or less grounded at home, simply forced to sit in front of my PC writing posts in here o:)

    Maybe we should talk about age. One of my colleagues, a senior neurologist, said the Mercedes car commercials typically show a 25 or 30 year old male cruising in a new expensive Mercedes, but typically such cars are bought only by 50+ year old persons. Now I'm starting to wonder if there're any dudes in here below the age of 35 - even though VR users seem quite young in the Oculus commercials :D (And maybe Index users will be older than Rift-S users! - See I mentioned the Index, and thus this post is relevant in this thread o:) :blush: )
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,380 Volunteer Moderator
    Lmao but my 31 and 34 year olds are bigger kids than their 2 year old brother. This sensible elder drivers a Peugeot 3008 SUV no Merc nonsense for me lol
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    Maybe some hype backlash - and maybe the consequence of Valve thinking they can launch Index without new awesome content:

    So long and thanks for all the fish

    So I am returning my Valve Index. Don't get me wrong, I get it that the hardware is great and everything but it I find that it is just not for me. I barely used my Vive and finally decided to sell it when the Index was coming out. Now that I have the Index, I find that I do not play with it at all. I fired it up and tried out a few different things but it is just not working out for me. The headset gets too warm and uncomfortable, the Index controllers are a great innovation but they are too small for my hands, and I get a bit motion sick when playing (especially Pavlov or the Gallery). I guess it is just not for me right now.

    I already uninstalled all my VR games and shipped the unit back. Hope all of you enjoy it more than I did.

    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c8r11s/so_long_and_thanks_for_all_the_fish/

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    Maybe worth noting that the Index hardware needs to be returned within 14 days of delivery:

    "For Valve Index Hardware (virtual reality headset, base stations and controllers) you have the right to cancel any purchase of the Hardware on Steam within 14 days from the day on which you or a third party indicated by you (other than the carrier) receives the Hardware purchased. To exercise this right, you must inform us of your decision to cancel your order by an unequivocal statement.

    For other Hardware offered by Steam (e.g. Steam Controller), you have the right to cancel your purchase within 30 days from the day on which you or a third party indicated by you (other than the carrier) receives the Hardware purchased. To exercise this right, you must inform us of your decision to cancel your order by an unequivocal statement.

    The easiest way to do this is by using the online button provided at help.steampowered.com. Simply log in there with your Steam user account, select the order you wish to cancel and the problem you are having, then press the button labeled "I'd like to request a refund".

    To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your cancellation message before the cancellation period (either 14 days or 30 days as the case may be) has expired and then send back the goods by following the instructions provided to you no later than 14 days from the day on which you communicate your cancellation to us.

    This return program may not be available to you if the Hardware has been modified, abused, or is otherwise no longer in new condition as a result of your testing of the Hardware exceeding what would be possible to you when buying the Hardware in a retail store. In that case, you may be liable for the diminished value of the Hardware due to its treatment while in your possession.


    EFFECTS OF CANCELLATION

    We will reimburse all payments received from you for the Hardware purchased and will also reimburse delivery charges for shipping the Hardware to you for the least expensive type of delivery offered by us, no later than 14 days after we or our agent received the Hardware. We will use the same means of payment as you used for the initial transaction, unless you have expressly agreed otherwise. If the purchase was made from a Steam Wallet, we will reimburse only to that Steam Wallet. In any event, you will not incur any fees as a result of such reimbursement. You will have to bear the direct cost of returning the Hardware."

    https://store.steampowered.com/hardware_order_terms

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 345
    Trinity
    So what if I wanted to return the HMD and not the base stations and controllers? Is that possible you think RuneSR2?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    So what if I wanted to return the HMD and not the base stations and controllers? Is that possible you think RuneSR2?
    I doubt that's possible, but at least you're returning the original box... Instead you could return the kit and then buy Knuckles and lighthouses separately... But try to ask Valve, you never know... Are you seriously considering returning the HMD? 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 345
    Trinity
    Indeed I am, I did some serious testing last night.. and I can confirm, the Vive Pro is better in every way (except how it looks)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    Indeed I am, I did some serious testing last night.. and I can confirm, the Vive Pro is better in every way (except how it looks)
    It does make sense keeping the Vive Pro for the high-res oled displays and great sound - and to combine it with Knuckles. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,094 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    Indeed I am, I did some serious testing last night.. and I can confirm, the Vive Pro is better in every way (except how it looks)
    Forgot to ask - are the lighthouses v. 2.0 noisy? 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 345
    Trinity
    Nope, pretty silent. 
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,698 Valuable Player
     Like Evertec said in his thoughts the Reverb simply impresses once you try it, it's such a visual increase over current devices. These resolution half-measures don't give you the same wow factor. I think it's easy to initially be impressed with advanced finger tracking, high Hz (at lesser visual quality) and nice off-ear sound, but then when the dust settles the display is still not where it should be. You're effectively playing with an over-priced improved version of last gen hardware which Oculus and others are moving away from with insight tracking. After all is said and done, my Index reserve slot next month might get dashed if I get another Reverb which is looking more likely now.

    Long live the Quest.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,991 Valuable Player
    I can't wait for the collective Nerd Rage when Valve ditch Lighthouse tracking in favour of inside out tracking for the Index 2. It's going to be hilarious  :p
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    Large FOV Rune? You sure about that. 
    Good point - some experience a larger FOV, some don't. I get the impression it depends on your ability to dial in the lenses. If you don't dial in the lenses it seems FOV is similar to CV1.
    From what I read, Valve said the Index has similar actual rendered FOV (at least horizontal) as the Vive. The whole thing about more FOV is because most people couldn't see the full FOV of a Vive (due to eye relief, etc), whereas more people can see the full (or near full) FOV of the Index.

    The FOV rendered by the GPU for Index is similar to that of a Vive or Vive Pro, but more of that view is delivered to most users.


  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,619 Valuable Player
    The is an excellent overview of the situation and its reasons regarding the Valve Index controller issues:


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
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    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:
    Indeed I am, I did some serious testing last night.. and I can confirm, the Vive Pro is better in every way (except how it looks)
    Interesting. I've never used a Vive Pro but yea, pairing it with the 2.0 light house would be the way to go. Also for the record my Light Houses are silent too. 

    I tried to play Archangel and once I got into the Mech it was great...but the whole train scene with the boy...the glare of the train lights was distracting me. I pretty much decided that I'm going to return mine and go for a Reverb or Pimax or something with 2.0 light house. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,078 Valuable Player
    Greater FOV was one of my main reasons for wanting the index. Would like to try one out before purchasing.

    Hoping like the Rift S issues, a lot may get fixed / improved down the road. 

    If the FOV is not that great an increase then I can see myself getting Reverb (once they fix their issues) and Index Controllers.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited July 4
    snowdog said:
    I can't wait for the collective Nerd Rage when Valve ditch Lighthouse tracking in favour of inside out tracking for the Index 2. It's going to be hilarious  :p
    If it tracks as good as Lighthouse I don't think anyone would care. Personally, I'm not against inside out (head mounted), I'm tired of glitchy tracking and that's all I've experienced thus far with it. I can't move like I want to in games like beat saber, or grab things off my belt like I want. I have to play with my tracking in mind instead of just playing. When head mounted inside out can deliver that, I'm on board. 
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    I can't wait for the collective Nerd Rage when Valve ditch Lighthouse tracking in favour of inside out tracking for the Index 2. It's going to be hilarious  :p
    Well, except that Lighthouse IS inside out tracking. :)

    But yeah, if they go for camera based inside out instead of beam sweep inside out, things will be interesting.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,581 Valuable Player
    edited July 4
     Like Evertec said in his thoughts the Reverb simply impresses once you try it, it's such a visual increase over current devices. These resolution half-measures don't give you the same wow factor. I think it's easy to initially be impressed with advanced finger tracking, high Hz (at lesser visual quality) and nice off-ear sound, but then when the dust settles the display is still not where it should be. You're effectively playing with an over-priced improved version of last gen hardware which Oculus and others are moving away from with insight tracking. After all is said and done, my Index reserve slot next month might get dashed if I get another Reverb which is looking more likely now.

    Long live the Quest.
    I agree, I also want higher resolution displays now that I have a Geforce 2080ti, but lots of people still have a 1080Ti or a 1080, which headsets like the Valve index can still cater for. I'm going to wait to see how much the HTC Cosmos costs now. I'm thinking if it's £699 or less I might purchase that VR headset. I think it will be more like £799 though and at that price I won't be getting it.
    I'm also looking at picking up a Reverb just for my sims, but only because I have a Geforce 2080Ti. I've read that even a Geforce 1080Ti can struggle on the Reverb and that a 2080Ti is just capable of pushing the frames need for the high resolution. That would make sense given a Geforce 1080 is good for Rift S and that the Reverb is nearly double the resolution of Rift S.
    If the HP Cosmos cost a lot of money then I might just pick up the Rift S again when all the problems are sorted out. I've heard the tracking is fixed on Rift S, so it's just the blank screens some are experiencing that I want to hear are fixed now.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,598 Valuable Player
    Yes tracking is quite good in 1.39 of the Oculus Software.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case|
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,078 Valuable Player
    edited July 4
    I would have to wait a bit before I was happy with the tracking reports. People have come from bloody awful tracking, so quite good could be subjective. 

    How quite good compares to sensor tracking is another thing.

    If your hands are out of the headset view then its just guessing where they are no matter how clever it gets.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,581 Valuable Player
    edited July 4
    I would have to wait a bit before I was happy with the tracking reports. People have gone from bloody awful to quite good. 

    How quite good compares to sensor tracking is another thing.

    If your hands are out of the headset view then its just guessing where they are no matter how clever it gets.

    When your hands are out of view in games it's usually only for a brief moment and that's not a deal breaker for me. You can still to do things like reach for the tablet in Onward with no problems when you hands are out of view of the camera's for a brief moment.
    I am waiting to see what HTC Cosmos is like because it has a camera underneath the headset and that's where I felt Rift S should have had one too. However, all reports suggest that tracking is good on the Rift S now, but I still want to see what more the HTC camera underneath offers and if it makes tracking even better.
    I just know I won't be purchasing a Valve index now. The glare been the biggest issue for me and I'm not really keen on the controllers either if I'm honest. I like a simple control method and think Oculus touch still wins out here for it's simplicity and comfort reaching the buttons.
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