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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Sounds awfully like HP, Oculus and Valve need better QC  :|
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Evileyes said:
    I would also like to state, Ive had zero luck with 144hz.. Basically when I switch to that setting, the overall visuals get blurry, and what I mean by that is, menus and the overall visuals blur up some.  When I switch back to 120hz, it all becomes clear.
    Yeah, SteamVR reduces super sampling to maintain the frame rate, I had the same problem. 

    But 120 Hz and 144 Hz are truly awesome refresh rates, presence is so much better - I immediately noticed it on head movement, and then of course on hand movements. 120 Hz worked great in Space Trainer, felt so much more alive, Vertigo 2 demo also worked fine in 120 Hz, but the problem is that SteamVR activates 120 Hz for all my games and apps, and most of my games don't work great in 120 hz, especially not in V-Racer. 

    In V-Racer Hoverbike I could get 120 fps, but when increasing graphics settings I could easily push the game to 60 fps. The game has a fps counter, so it's easy to verify your frame rate. In 144 Hz I got 72 fps in V-Racer, which was unplayable due to the ghosting, but 90 Hz/fps work perfectly. 

    Index does profit from super sampling, actually quite a lot in V-Racer. Going from res 3 to 2 was very bad in V-Racer - I really need to keep it at 3 (using the CV1 "3" meant ss 1.75, don't know how it affects SteamVR). Using a GTX 1080, I guess 90 Hz still is the best option. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    @RuneSR2 - So you can't choose between 90Hz 120Hz 144Hz? SteamVR automatically sets 120Hz?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    I also don't get noticeable "lines" when moving my head sideways, but I do notice the SDE - although it doesn't disturb me. Also I got the lenses dialed in much more today (have to be careful with glasses), and that really increased the fov a lot compared to the CV1, especially horizontal fov - I literally couldn't see where the sky ended in V-Racer - like in real life. 
    I did notice some glare today, but then I tried to angle the HMD slightly upwards, and that seemed to help a lot. I have the feeling - just like the CV1 - that it'll take much time really getting to know the HMD. 
    SteamVR works fine, but it's not like using the Oculus Home. Also had trouble playing Skyrim and FallOut 4 today - couldn't get the controls to work properly (especially Skyrim), and both games were previously set up for Touch. Psychonauts also didn't work, but in general all the new stuff works perfectly (=SteamVR games I just installed that never were set up for Touch), like Vertigo 2, Space Pirate Trainer and Aperture Hand Labs. 
    Due to the higher res, Index does profit from antialiasing - for the first time I could clearly see differences between MSAA 2x, 4x and 8x in Space Pirate Trainer - using CV1 ss 2.0 I couldn't tell MSAA 2x apart from 8x. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    RedRizla said:
    @RuneSR2 - So you can't choose between 90Hz 120Hz 144Hz? SteamVR automatically sets 120Hz?
    You can choose - but if you choose 120 Hz then that choice affects all your games and apps. Unless I missed a setting, you can't set Space Pirate Trainer to 144 Hz, while setting V-Racer to 90 Hz - like making individual profiles. But you can of course just change back and forth - you need to restart SteamVR every time you change refresh rate. Lack of ASW 2.0 means that 45 fps x 2 don't feel like 90 fps, so using the Index you really want to get those 90 fps - or fps corresponding 1:1 with the refresh rate. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    Sounds awfully like HP, Oculus and Valve need better QC  :|
    It seems they don't properly test these things. And if someone does an RMA, someone should thoroughly test the replacement unit. I hear a lot of stories of people who RMA only to get another defective unit. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    Played some more today and the vertical line problem is pretty much gone. Maybe the panels just needed to warm up. 

    Last time I also didn't check motion smoothing so I wasn't really getting the motion smoothing effect. Now I see what people were talking about. It's subtle but you feel more present as you move your head. 

    IL-2 @ 120Hz with motion smoothing was pretty nice. 

    I also played around with FO4 VR and Skyrim VR and both look really great and feel great. I was even able to use 120hz with FO4 VR. 

    At first I thought this variable refresh rate would be useless since few games can run above 90Hz but boy was I wrong. This is pretty cool. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,020 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    So it sounds like you've done a complete 180. :D


    Yeh high hz is subtle but adds an uncanny feeling of fluidity of movement. Vader Immortal and SPT are good examples to use as is the cursor movement in Virtual Desktop. 

    What index really needs though is some gamma, contrast, colour adjustment options on a per game basis to reduce glare and improve the black levels.





    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,274 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    My god this thread is a roller coaster ride lol

    Seems to me the differing opinions is down to poor quality control, software set up, power of graphics card.

    Get them all right and you have a great headset.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,020 Valuable Player
    Racket Fury updated today and whilst I was there I decided to install it for the Rift as well it's cross-buy. Holy S**t! It's a  completely different game on PC compared to the Quest not only visually but this is a great game to showcase 120/144hz play. Very smooth and super-fast ball movement.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    My god this thread is a roller coaster ride lol

    Seems to me the differing opinions is down to poor quality control, software set up, power of graphics card.

    Get them all right and you have a great headset
    Yea it seem that way. Speaking of software, if you're looking at washed out colors in your index, there's a fix earlier in this thread with forcing SteamVR to validate files or something like that. Fixed the colors for a lot of people.

    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5956-WHZM-1420
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    You guys have definitely sold me now on your glowing reviews, I was a bit worried at first but now you have put my mind at ease. So I still plan on buying Index!  I'm very excited to get my hands on it! :)
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    Why does the index HMD need a separate power adapter? The index has 3 cables, a DisplayPort, a USB, and a power cord. Why is that? 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 351
    Trinity
    Yesterday there was a nvidia driver update, I ran the update and now my Index looks like shit, the SDE is more prominent now.. WTF is up with this HMD. I'm so annoyed about it.. I confirmed it when I ran Skyrim. I guess I have to fiddle around some more.. but what a let down. :(
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
    Need a Tesla? Here is a free 1000 miles in supercharging!
    https://ts.la/mark56706
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Roll back ?
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    Evileyes said:
    Yesterday there was a nvidia driver update, I ran the update and now my Index looks like shit, the SDE is more prominent now.. WTF is up with this HMD. I'm so annoyed about it.. I confirmed it when I ran Skyrim. I guess I have to fiddle around some more.. but what a let down. :(

    You sure it's defo the patch and not something else in settings or nvidia drivers?

    Also do they allow you to roll back updates or force you to remain on that update like Oculus does?
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 351
    Trinity
    going to do a roll back :/
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
    Need a Tesla? Here is a free 1000 miles in supercharging!
    https://ts.la/mark56706
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Evileyes said:
    Yesterday there was a nvidia driver update, I ran the update and now my Index looks like shit, the SDE is more prominent now.. WTF is up with this HMD. I'm so annoyed about it.. I confirmed it when I ran Skyrim. I guess I have to fiddle around some more.. but what a let down. :(

     What do you mean by "looks like shit"? Artifacts? Resolution?

    Oh, SDE...is it the issue I and others have had where when you move the SDE becomes prominent?

    (This is why PCVR could never be mainstream. Regular folk can't deal with driver updates, USB problems, etc. That's why only a standalone device like Quest or PSVR 2 on PS5 has a chance for mass adoption)
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 351
    Trinity
    SDE became more prominent in general.. I have NO CLUE why it did that.. only thing I did was update Nvidia's drivers. I now performed a roll back just need to test it a bit later.. really pissed me off because it was working great before that.
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
    Need a Tesla? Here is a free 1000 miles in supercharging!
    https://ts.la/mark56706
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 351
    Trinity
    Looking forward to this in VR the most!

    https://uploadvr.com/sean-murray-no-mans-sky-vr-sci-fi-dream/
    i7 X5960 @ 4200Mhz, 16GB ram, EVGA 2080 ti FTW
    Need a Tesla? Here is a free 1000 miles in supercharging!
    https://ts.la/mark56706
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    I never update drivers unless I have a problem. If it ain't broke...
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,297 Valuable Player
    Evileyes said:

    Yup, me too! Even more than Stormlands!!!
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    You guys have definitely sold me now on your glowing reviews, I was a bit worried at first but now you have put my mind at ease. So I still plan on buying Index!  I'm very excited to get my hands on it! :)

     I've come to realize that buying on or close to release of anything sucks. Better to wait until all the problems are sorted out with patches and updates. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,932 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    MowTin said:
    You guys have definitely sold me now on your glowing reviews, I was a bit worried at first but now you have put my mind at ease. So I still plan on buying Index!  I'm very excited to get my hands on it! :)

     I've come to realize that buying on or close to release of anything sucks. Better to wait until all the problems are sorted out with patches and updates. 

    As much as it pains me that's why I'm waiting. I want to see what the HTC Cosmos is like and what Oculus has to say in Sept. There's also not a vast amount of really good VR games that make me want rush out and update the CV1 either. I would like the HP Reverb when it's fixed for some sims though.
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 723
    Trinity
    edited July 2019
    that visual artifact is tearing. it happens when  you use full screen instead of border less window, and you cap the fps of the game to something like 60fps or some similar low number.

    the place to see it is in the game apex legends. using virtual desktop as shown in this video;


    then hard cap the fps in the game to 60 fps using the method shown in this video;


    then test with full screen on in apex legends and then with borderless window, and the exact spot you can see it easily every time is in the drop ship at the very start of the game, just nod your head up and down and back and forth while looking at the map below.

    it can be fixed by setting the game to borderless window if it has that option.

    if you dont hard cap the fps to a low number its hard to see the tearing which is why some of you dont see it your pc is strong enough it outputs a lot of fps that hides the tearing.


  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    MowTin said:
    Why does the index HMD need a separate power adapter? The index has 3 cables, a DisplayPort, a USB, and a power cord. Why is that? 
    I think Index needs more power than a normal USB 3.0 port can provide. If you connect the Index to a 3.1 type-c, then I think you won't need additional power - but I've yet to test that. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Techy111 said:
    Roll back ?
    Yup, if it works don't fix it. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Nice video showing Doom VFR gameplay using the Index:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/cibzsi/did_anyone_try_doom_vfr_on_the_index/

    I have to fix the controls, but it seems it isn't that hard - to me Doom VFR is the best fps in VR, even way better than Arizona Sunshine. With the Index you can really see the monsters, like:



    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,582 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Just saw this - Index reviewed after using it for 1 month:

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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