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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    SteamVR just got another beta update -  beta now is 1.7.4 (standard version is 1.6.10):

    SteamVR Beta Updated - 1.7.4

    13 AUG @ 2:45AM - BENDOTCOM


    Lighthouse:
    • Improve the registration of controllers to headsets when moving together rigidly coupled, such as with a gun stock accessory. This applies to all combinations of HMDs, controllers, and tracking pucks made by Valve and HTC.
    SteamVR:
    • Fixed VR View window from frequently unminimizing and putting itself on top.
    • Fixed docked VR View’s aspect ratio.
    • Docked VR View will no longer hide when the HMD is in standby or isn’t tracking. 
    • Added URL handler to open the Debug Commands window. vrmonitor://debugcommands
    Linux:
    • Reduce CPU utilization when async reprojection is disabled.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • jabjab Posts: 199
    Art3mis
    I got really confused for a moment. Did Oculus actually bothering to write a short note saying what's fixed or changed in this software release? But then I remembered this is the Index thread..
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 18
    Another CV1 user made the jump - there're many but I think this dude covered the most important aspects and may represent many other CV1 owners. Remember these are the very first impressions - before habituation kicks in ;)

    Upgraded from CV1 to Index

    Bear in mind all is just my opinion, that may help you with your decission wether to buy an Index or not

    0) Setup was easy

    1. FOV is a huge upgrade, just a slight black border right and left, I can finally enjoy VR like I wanted it from the beginning

    2. I don´t have any artifacts on the displays, they look perfect to me (no lines or so)

    3. Black levels are fantastic, in fact much better than on my CV1 (no black smear). I couldn´t see anything in Affected The Manor because it was so damn black everywhere

    4. Headset has a huge sweet spot

    5. 120hz is nice and you notice it

    6. Display is much sharper, you can finally read text without getting a headache and you will notice details you haven´t seen before

    7. The sound is quite good, but I expected more

    8. The Controllers will take time to get used to, you have to really open your hand and close to grab something

    9. Base stations make an anoying loud sound, both of them. I have to unplug them while not in use.

    10. Steam is still a mess. Hangs up, after a restart it doesn´t see the Index as a speaker and I have to unplug the power of the Index and plug it back in so Windows/Steam finds it again.

    11. You can play lots of games via Revive, it´s pretty easy to use, but expect bad performance. (Could be that I was playing in 120hz with my 1080, will have to try again with 90hz.

    12. God rays are back, at least at the edges you will see them alot, but game design gets around that

    13. Tracking is awesome and much better than my CV1 setup with 3 sensors (and I freed 3 USB slots aswell)

    Conclusion: I will keep my Index and sell the CV1, mainly because of the bigger FOV, the crisp display and the the controllers. But keep in mind this is not a product for beginners, the Oculus hardware + software is much easier to use and a Rift S or Quest may be the better product for you.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/crqc7z/upgraded_from_cv1_to_index/


    For point 3 I have to disagree - CV1 is a lot better than the Index, especially in Affected The Manor. But yes, SPUD is gone using the Index, but so are the deep blacks in horror games, where you really need them. I'm starting to use the term "cinema blacks" to describe Index blacks - because in the cinema, where everything is shown on a white screen, you get much similar black levels, and you certainly don't get oled blacks. 

    For point 7 I agree - but some newbies are unaware that you can push the speakers down (they are placed in small rails), so they come closer to your ears. This makes the bass closer to the CV1 quality, but CV1 still wins when it comes to bass - above something like 500Hz Index speakers have no competition from the CV1 headphones. 

    Point 9 - he hasn't yet figured out that the base stations should be set to standby mode when you close SteamVR. This needs to be done manually by clicking SteamVR Settings, selecting the base stations and set them to power down when SteanVR is closed. Then the stations are completely silent - and you don't hear them in-game. 

    Point 10 - I never experienced that problem, Index sound and speakers work flawlessly on my rig - never saw that problem described on Reddit Index either. Steam starts minimized on my rig, then I press the SteamVR button on the Knuckles (or the HMD), and SteamVR + the Index HMD start up automatically. Oculus still is better here - using CV1 I just need to put on the HMD and everything starts. No matter if I use CV1 or Index I don't have to turn on my monitor. Steam and then SteamVR take longer time to start though. 

    Point 11 - obviously he shouldn't be using 120 Hz in all games. I use 90 Hz and usually get better performance using Index than CV1 - but it'll depend on how much ss you force on the CV1. If you don't use ss, clearly Index ss 1.0 will be more demanding than CV1 ss 1.0. But Index ss 1.0 looks about 4-5 times better than CV1 ss 2.0 and performs much better too, there really isn't any comparison. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,385 Volunteer Moderator
    My email came last week, I just cannot take the leap because of godrays noticeable or not. I'd notice them. I will hold out for upcoming (reverb) headsets.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 18
    Techy111 said:
    My email came last week, I just cannot take the leap because of godrays noticeable or not. I'd notice them. I will hold out for upcoming (reverb) headsets.
    The glare is there, but usually I really don't notice it. Played Doom VFR for 2 hours yesterday, never noticed any glare in-game. But you'll notice it if you got some small white text on a completely black background. I think it's an artifact of the dual lenses. I've found that dialing in the lenses seem to reduce the glare, at least it's not worse than CV1, and I'm rarely bothered by god rays using the CV1.

    Also I think the Index should be worn like a crown, which also seems to reduce glare. I call it glare because I don't think it's the same as god rays, but I could be wrong.
    Index is nearly twice the weight of CV1 when you're standing and have to lift like 5+ feet of cable too (Index cable is about 50% thicker and also heavier), so it's important to get a perfect fit. Like a crown weight should be put on your forehead and the back of your head, not on your cheekbones. You fix that by moving/tilting the Index slightly upwards, until you feel no or minimal pressure on your cheekbones - this seems to also reduce glare a lot and doesn't affect image quality at all. In games I don't notice glare, not even in dark games/apps like Discovering Space 2. I don't recall having any game or app I don't use because of glare. But I use CV1 for Affected the Manor, not because of glare, but because that game needs the deep oled blacks. 
    Reverb may of course be better for sims due to the res - advantages of Index would be fov and 120+ hz, and the controllers, but you probably don't need the controllers in sims ;)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah whatever headset comes out first with the resolution for my sims will get my money. Gutted that the HP offering was a dud at the time mate. Fingers crossed for the near future.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
    edited August 18
    Pimax 8KX might interest you Techy111. It will be interesting to see if they get it right out of the gate this time.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    BTW, Shadow Legend is 50% off on Steam - it's one of my favorite VR games, and it has full Index support:

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/987230/Shadow_Legend_VR/



    "Hey Guys,

    We've recently added support for the new INDEX Knuckles controllers that includes finger tracking and pressure sensitive item interaction for all objects, belt items, and bow/arrow shooting.

    If you have the INDEX Controllers be sure to open the in-game Start Menu and select the button interaction as "Grip" instead of trigger. (This will enable the pressure sensitive functionality for the controllers.)

    Cheers,
    VitruviusVR Team"
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Pimax 8KX might interest you Techy111. It will be interesting to see if they get it right out of the game.
    I shall keep my eyes peeled. 
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Damn, no good for us Brits !!!
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    Trained my vr legs this evening  :# For years I've avoided Adr1ft because of gamepad controls in the Oculus Store version, but then I saw that the Steam version supports wands and Index controllers - in short I bought the game and it's quite good on the Index:



    This sort of explains the Knuckles trackpads that many dislike, but in games like Adr1ft trackpads ensure full wands compatibility - and the trackpads work just fine - and thumb sticks work too.

    Then I played some V-Racer Hoverbike, and it's probably best for my stomach just to sit still and stare at a wall for 10 minutes, lol.

    BTW, Zed just got a 6GB update and also runs nice on the Index. I maxed out in-game res and then further set ss to 150% in SteamVR and I usually get 90 fps. Music and voice are really great using the Index speakers in Zed.


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
    edited August 18
    I'm 9 hours in NMS now on Index on one of my saves. Not sure I want to play any other VR games at the moment other than Espire 1 which is due out this month.

    I  now own a freighter which I can command and send on missions. I have two planetside bases now in different systems. I found a really nice Earth like biome but with pumpkin like creatures roaming about. Lots of Gold here too to mine. I just upgraded my weapon for the first time. I've shot down several attacking ships and undertaken various side-missions. A bit of everything then so far with more to come.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,593 Valuable Player
    They still selling this pile of junk instead of fixing it? I just saw this on reddit which means the are doing nothing to fix this headset by the looks of things.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    I'm 9 hours in NMS now on Index on one of my saves. Not sure I want to play any other VR games at the moment other than Espire 1 which is due out this month.

    I  now own a freighter which I can command and send on missions. I have two planetside bases now in different systems. I found a really nice Earth like biome but with pumpkin like creatures roaming about. Lots of Gold here too to mine. I just upgraded my weapon for the first time. I've shot down several attacking ships and undertaken various side-missions. A bit of everything then so far with more to come.

    How are the graphics later on? Even using Ultra, and the performance seems quite good after the latest patches, graphics still look kinda poor. Coming back to SteamVR Home looks so much better when exiting NMS. NMS graphics are very hard on my eyes, lol. I know NMS isn't about graphics but about what you can do, maybe I should give it another try. At least I've found some sodium and found my spaceship...  
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 904
    3Jane
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm 9 hours in NMS now on Index on one of my saves. Not sure I want to play any other VR games at the moment other than Espire 1 which is due out this month.

    I  now own a freighter which I can command and send on missions. I have two planetside bases now in different systems. I found a really nice Earth like biome but with pumpkin like creatures roaming about. Lots of Gold here too to mine. I just upgraded my weapon for the first time. I've shot down several attacking ships and undertaken various side-missions. A bit of everything then so far with more to come.

    How are the graphics later on? Even using Ultra, and the performance seems quite good after the latest patches, graphics still look kinda poor. Coming back to SteamVR Home looks so much better when exiting NMS. NMS graphics are very hard on my eyes, lol. I know NMS isn't about graphics but about what you can do, maybe I should give it another try. At least I've found some sodium and found my spaceship...  
    NMS is improving, slowly, but VR is not best optimised currently.
    For me - I set resolution to 1080p Vsync off (screen res), downloaded the Vulkan RT latest and played around a bit with resolutions/quality.
    Played a couple of hours last night with it looking the best so far.. (pretty reasonable) but have no idea of my FPS or reprojection - I just played.
    PC info: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, MSI MPG X570 Edge, 16GB Tforce Pro Dark DDR4 3200, KFA2 RTX 2080 Super, Samsung 870 Pro M.2, 2x 240GB SSD, 3TB WD Green HDD & 4 TB Seagate Barracuda HDD, Antec Modular 750w PSU, custom watercooling loop. (Win 10 Pro & Opensuse Leap 15.1 Linux) 32" AOC 4K Monitor.

    Laptop: Aorus X5 V6-CF1 (I7-6820HK, GTX 1070, 2* 256GB M.2 NVME, 1TB 7200 HDD)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 19
    RattyUK said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm 9 hours in NMS now on Index on one of my saves. Not sure I want to play any other VR games at the moment other than Espire 1 which is due out this month.

    I  now own a freighter which I can command and send on missions. I have two planetside bases now in different systems. I found a really nice Earth like biome but with pumpkin like creatures roaming about. Lots of Gold here too to mine. I just upgraded my weapon for the first time. I've shot down several attacking ships and undertaken various side-missions. A bit of everything then so far with more to come.

    How are the graphics later on? Even using Ultra, and the performance seems quite good after the latest patches, graphics still look kinda poor. Coming back to SteamVR Home looks so much better when exiting NMS. NMS graphics are very hard on my eyes, lol. I know NMS isn't about graphics but about what you can do, maybe I should give it another try. At least I've found some sodium and found my spaceship...  
    NMS is improving, slowly, but VR is not best optimised currently.
    For me - I set resolution to 1080p Vsync off (screen res), downloaded the Vulkan RT latest and played around a bit with resolutions/quality.
    Played a couple of hours last night with it looking the best so far.. (pretty reasonable) but have no idea of my FPS or reprojection - I just played.

    I guess that's the spirit - but those giant jaggies are really hard not to notice. And then TAA does fix the jaggies but makes everything super-blurry. I really did enjoy Adr1ft yesterday - maybe it's much like being shot out of your spaceship in NMS, lol. It's the most vomiting-inducing VR gameplay I've tried for a long time, can't wait to play some more later this evening! Felt like Bullock in the movie Gravity, except I kept rotating :# Adr1ft doesn't seem to respond to the SteamVR ss, increased it to 200% not sure I saw any difference - but game still looks great using the Index. BTW, Adr1ft is $20 on Steam, but $2 here B)

    https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/buy-adr1ft-cd-key-compare-prices/

    Ok, maybe Adr1ft isn't the best game, but it's interesting to experience how Knuckles work when trying to emulate wands. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,082 Valuable Player
    I think Ad1ft is beautiful, although the game play gets a little boring. Looked great on the CV1 bet it looks amazing on the Index.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    BTW, just saw this on Blue's:



    So Index Kit - full 1k - is close to being the most sold item on Steam?... Very impressive if it's true... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,082 Valuable Player
    Wow yeah.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 23
    Saw some dude hanging his Index like this for storage (can't find the post, maybe it got deleted, so found a similar photo):



    He had put the Index cloth over the lenses, but I still think it's a bad idea - this way the HMD will still collect a lot of dust. Personally, and maybe Shadowmask will mention OCD again, but I use this method for HMD storage - basically means no dust at all and CV1 - apart from aging plastic - still looks like new ;)

    Had some large transparent bags for CGC mags, but they work for HMDs too. Index front, CV1 in the back. They're not completely sealed to allow some ventilation and avoid any build-up of humidity.  

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    Looks interesting, was posted on Reddit Index, although I'm not sure I saw pinky move ;)


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 21
    Just had an epic moment, lol. Didn't think my rig could do this at all, which kept me from testing it for weeks, but first I played Thumper on the Index - fsaa 8x, and that went fine. Then I increased ss from 100% to 200% and held my breath - and voila, I got perfect 90 fps - even adding 8xFSAA - still solid 90 fps. The image quality felt like this, lol


    One thing was running ss 2.0 on the CV1 - but now I was running ss 2.0 on the Index! 

    Now some may have played Thumper before - but apart from the Reverb dudes - I'd say you haven't really played Thumper before experiencing it using the Index - that is using SteamVR ss 200 % - and 8xFSAA - in solid 90 fps. Ok, maybe 120+ fps would be even better - but I've never seen this level of image quality before, especially also due to the giant fov (had lenses nearly all dialed in - well, I always do when using the Index).

    Not sure how much I'm pressing the gpu compared to Rift, but maybe it's possible to do some math. CV1 ss 2.0 - which according to Oculus Tray Tool is the same as SteamVR ss 200 % - should work like this:



    CV1 ss 2.0 thus pushes about 10,000,000 pixels per image (both lenses). According to SteamVR, this is how ss 2.0 (200%) looks like when using the Index:


    Note the pixel count is for just one eye, so full res must be: 2 x 2792 x 3104 = 17,332,736 mill pixels  :o This would be about 70 % more pixels than the 10 mill for CV1, which doesn't seem that unreasonable. I just never thought my humble and heavily oc'ed GTX 1080 would be able to run any Index game in SteamVR 200%. But I can - and this is the image quality of my dreams (or until I try the Reverb or better, lol). For now Lucky's Tale plays beyond awesome, but note that SteamVR 100% is pretty sharp and not at all bad in Lucky's Tale, but using 200% the game is just perfectly sharp no matter where you look - no more blur on distant objects - feels like I can see clearly for like 100 meters or so. Similar to using high levels of ss in the CV1 you add incredibly much depth to the games. Kin also worked flawlessly using SteamVR 200% - I think I just sat there and stared at the animated intro screen for like 5 minutes, graphics were simply perfect and now I can die a happy man, lol. Then on to Angry Birds - game totally opened up using Index SteamVR 200%, even the most distant objects are razor-sharp, but it's not at all too much, there're no shimmering textures or anything, it just looks perfect, fps never below 90. Merry Snowballs also worked perfectly 90 fps ss 200%, and maybe most of all, so did First Contact. Yup, when I close my eyes tonight I think I'll see myself waving to a robot - solid 90 fps - Index ss 200% - like seeing it for the very first time in all its glory.
    Of course SteamVR 200% will only work for the less demanding and more simple games on my rig - but I do have quite a lot of such games, and I truly love the opportunity to enjoy them with this level of graphics and performance. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 21
    This really looks awesome - can't wait playing it on the Index!


    Westworld Awakening also just arrived - haven't tried it yet - but may be a surprisingly awesome game:

    "Westworld Awakening is one of the most emotionally engaging VR games I've ever played. Experiencing Westworld through the eyes of a host is terrifying, and at several points, I could feel my heart race as I hid under virtual tables while someone passed me by. The combination of Survios' unique VR movement mechanic and a wrecked Delos lab full of bodies makes you genuinely feel like you're running for your life for a couple of moments, which is genuinely thrilling."
    Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/westworld-awakening-review-gripping-survival-puzzle-worth-every-penny
    Westworld Awakening supports the Index, but it also support Rift - even DK2! (At least DK2 is listed for the SteamVR version.) Get it here:

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1133320/Westworld_Awakening/

    It's also available in the Oculus Store:

    https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/2389701057764977

    According to currently reviews on Steam, Westworld Awakening has awesome performance and some of the best graphics ever seen using the Index. Seems like a must-have for Index owners - I'm downloading now  o:)

    A few quotes from Index Reddit - Westworld Awakening:

    "I'm about an hour and a half in, just passed the first act (I like to really explore environments so I take longer than the average). It's been pretty great so far. I'm running and Index, 9700k, and 2080ti so I'm getting the max out of it. Graphically one of the best I've seen from vr so far. Movement is pretty solid. I like the innovation they tried to do. Some of it felt really good. And so far the story seems like it follows the show. Keep in mind how early I am in the game though. I thought it's a great showcase of what the medium can do and Id recommend it."


    "Was a fantastic experience. I'm a huge fan of the show, and this felt like getting a couple more episodes of Season 2 basically, except interactive in VR. Absolutely top production quality. Best drama writing in a VR game. Great performance capture."


    "This is better than every game in your backlog trust me. Like wowwowow"

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,460 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:

    Not sure how much I'm pressing the gpu compared to Rift, but maybe it's possible to do some math. CV1 ss 2.0 - which according to Oculus Tray Tool is the same as SteamVR ss 200 % - should work like this:



    CV1 ss 2.0 thus pushes about 10,000,000 pixels per image (both lenses). According to SteamVR, this is how ss 2.0 (200%) looks like when using the Index:

    Pixel density of 1.0 on the Rift CV1 is 1344x1600 per eye, not 1080x1200.
    Pixel density of 2.0 on the Rift CV1 is 2688x3200 per eye, which is 17.2 MegaPixels total (both eyes)



  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 21
    kojack said:
    RuneSR2 said:

    Not sure how much I'm pressing the gpu compared to Rift, but maybe it's possible to do some math. CV1 ss 2.0 - which according to Oculus Tray Tool is the same as SteamVR ss 200 % - should work like this:



    CV1 ss 2.0 thus pushes about 10,000,000 pixels per image (both lenses). According to SteamVR, this is how ss 2.0 (200%) looks like when using the Index:

    Pixel density of 1.0 on the Rift CV1 is 1344x1600 per eye, not 1080x1200.
    Pixel density of 2.0 on the Rift CV1 is 2688x3200 per eye, which is 17.2 MegaPixels total (both eyes)



    Also OTT reports ss 1.4 for SteamVR 100% (CV1), so SteamVR 100% doesn't seem to be equal to ss 1.0 (this has been showed before). Thus using Index ss 100% may be equivalent to using ss 1.4 - but adjusted for the Index res, which is about 80% higher than CV1. 
    In order not to confuse SteamVR too much, I don't use CV1 in SteamVR anymore. I was thinking that SteamVR 100% must differ for CV1 and Index due to different screen resolutions, but I haven't tested this assumption. Using the values you provided it would seem that SteamVR 200% results in the same res for both CV1 and Index (both get a value of about 17 mill pixels)... That could explain the similar performance (90 fps achievable) I'm observing in some games at 200%, but still would be strange if SteamVR doesn't take HMD res into account... Also in other games and apps I can't get 90 fps using Index 200%, while I could using CV1 200%, so would indicate that CV1 200% differs from Index 200%... 

    I think this was posted by a Vive owner - at least here SteamVR seems to have adjusted for the HMD res - his 200% res definitely is much lower than my 200% Index res - and corresponds nicely to the 10 mill pixels in my old chart (2 x 2138 x 2376 = 10,159,776):


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,460 Volunteer Moderator
    Different headsets have different multipliers too, due to lens distortion properties. The CV1 is about 1.24 multiplier horizontally, while the DK2 was about 1.5 and the DK1 was 1.7 (so Pixel Density 1.0 would be 1.7 times the native panel res).

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    edited August 21
    kojack said:
    Different headsets have different multipliers too, due to lens distortion properties. The CV1 is about 1.24 multiplier horizontally, while the DK2 was about 1.5 and the DK1 was 1.7 (so Pixel Density 1.0 would be 1.7 times the native panel res).

    It easily gets complicated. Found this for the CV1 - again much lower values for CV1 236% than I get for Index 200%, so makes sense that I'm pushing my GTX 1080 much harder using Index 200% compared to CV1 200%:

    CV1 236%


    Index 200%


    Or maybe I should just state that Index 200% looks incredibly awesome and I'm very happy to pull 90 fps using that image quality in several lesser demanding games and apps. Getting Index 200% in more advanced games like Lone Echo - and 90+ fps - may really be worth a RTX 3080 or better, lol. 
    Did read that some dude used ss 400% in Google Earth - maybe worth a try, I wonder what's the upper limit for Index before you really can't see any difference and you're just wasting performance.  

    BTW, ss means a lot to the Index. Probably because of all the subpixels, ss dramatically improves the image quality (Pyroth309 told me that weeks ago, but I'm a slow learner, lol). It may not be a big issue for many Index users, because image quality is already great using Index 100%, and using the CV1 you really depend on high levels of ss to get acceptable image quality due to ss 1.0 being extremely blurry. Maybe ss beyond SteamVR 100% is a luxury using Index, but that doesn't make it less enjoyable. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,082 Valuable Player
    edited August 21
    Wow Westworld VR, the series is brilliant. I would so love Red Dead Redemption to come to VR. My god imagine that. Just walking into a saloon in such a richly populated world.

    You lose me a bit with the all the settings comparisons but thanks for adding the simpler version for me  :)

     RuneSR2 said:
    Or maybe I should just state that Index 200% looks incredibly awesome.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,127 Valuable Player
    Wow Westworld VR, the series is brilliant. I would so love Red Dead Redemption to come to VR. My god imagine that. Just walking into a saloon in such a richly populated world.

    You lose me a bit with the all the settings comparisons but thanks for adding the simpler version for me  :)

     RuneSR2 said:
    Or maybe I should just state that Index 200% looks incredibly awesome.
    Just let me know if I can do anything to help, should you ever need it. But yeah, calculating 17 million pixels per image does look awesome on the Index in 90+ fps ;)

    This also may imply that Reverb will work just fine in many less demanding VR games, if you have a GTX 1080 or better. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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