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The Index thread (please keep to subject)

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited June 29
    Zenbane said:

    So the Valve Index turns 1 years old today! It was June 28 last year that it was born. Good news for PCVR. Keep that momentum going!

    Happy Birthday, Index, you bulky controller mofo  <3

    A good article for tips and tricks:
    https://skarredghost.com/2020/06/28/valve-index-ergonomics-tweaks/

    Played Boneworks last evening, which is an awesome experience (nearly forgot how good the visuals are, haven't played the game for months). My controllers are still working perfectly (right controller is the original soon one year old, but I got a new left one due to drifting nearly 8 months ago) - but you never know, lol. Btw, the article was posted on Index Reddit - I wrote this comment:

    " [...] seems the article is 90% about Index problems. I've experienced none of those issues. Personally I think Valve made an amazing hmd, there are no mods I need to make, seems like a complete waste of time and effort. But sure, SteamVR res 200% looks awesome in games where you still can get 1:1 fps:Hz. Compared to my CV1, Index colors pop at least as much, I've had no problems with brightness, which I've kept at 100% the last year. My main issue with the Index is the columns, and these aren't even mentioned in the article."



    Seems like everyone knows better than Valve how to design hmds these days ;)

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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    "Made for Index and released today! Extreme resolution and photorealism, free demo" - yup, I'm defenseless against such pick up lines :blush:  




    But 22GB for a non-game where I can't shoot stuff or drive or fly or kill someone with a sword :#

    Then again...  >:)  

    "Hey kids, this summer we'll travel all over the world and it's dirt cheap and there's no Covid-19!!!"  o:):D

     https://store.steampowered.com/app/1264180/Blueplanet_VR/









    The devs weren't kidding, this app truly is awesome. Maybe they could call it Vacation Simulator for adults ;) 
    The res is very high - and furthermore I get solid 90 fps with Index res 200%. Landscapes aren't flat photos, but are made with textured polygons. 
    You can go places you probably can't in the real world, because you're walking so close to edges and you would not survive a fall. I don't think any guide would be allowed to take turists to such places. But you are safe in VR.
    You can only teleport. Graphics are similar to The Lab, when you visit for example the cave in Iceland. 
    Of course it's not the same as being at these locations in the real world, but it'll probably be close enough for many. Using Index res 200% I felt like I could see several miles away, the view distance was awesome. This app shines using high-res hmds, I'm sure Reverb may be the winner, but the big fov is great with the Index. 
    For the elderly, or persons having difficulties visiting these places in the real world, Blueplanet VR is an awesome option to get out while staying at home :) 9/10 in my book - for now.


    Yesterday the devs made a major error causing the app to be completely deleted and you could not reinstall it. 9GB gone. Apparently it's now fixed, but I have to re-download 9GB - which will take me a least 3 hours. Of course errors can and will happen, but this is the first time I've had an entire app deleted by a patch gone wrong.
    Kinda shows how great it is that you're not forced to patch games and apps bought in the Oculus Store. If Steam hadn't forced me to patch Blueplanet VR yesterday, I would not have been exposed to this extremely severe error, sigh.   
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,357 Valuable Player
    What an amazing year - especially considering the journey from 2011 to here:



    Congratulations to the team at Valve
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  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,450 Valuable Player
    Yes congrats valve now lower the prices :)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,735 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:

    " [...] seems the article is 90% about Index problems. I've experienced none of those issues. Personally I think Valve made an amazing hmd, there are no mods I need to make, seems like a complete waste of time and effort. But sure, SteamVR res 200% looks awesome in games where you still can get 1:1 fps:Hz. Compared to my CV1, Index colors pop at least as much, I've had no problems with brightness, which I've kept at 100% the last year. My main issue with the Index is the columns, and these aren't even mentioned in the article."


    Ah I should have read it more thoroughly. I don't have an Index so I just was skim reading the article after seeing it posted in a positive light over an Facebook.

    I think any issues Index owners may have at this stage are fairly minimal, and reasonable. I mean hell, it's only 1 year old! The Rift CV1 had plenty of damn problems during its first 2 years. The first year was problems just with 1 sensor and an XBox controller. The 2nd year was problems with Touch.

    That whole clickgate thing was kinda fun tho lol
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited June 30
    Agreed, it's funny that after spending so much time making Index the best they could, then some thumbsticks don't click. Although the drifting probably is the worst controller problem - and some users still experience problems (but it does seem like fewer are reporting such problems - Valve has fixed the thumsticks by making them about 1 mm taller). 
    Maybe some of us have been lucky with our CV1s, and CV1s had their share of problems too (like glue under the lenses etc.) - but that said, my CV1 has never had any issues - can't say that about my Index. The main issue with the Index may be that when paying 1k people expect a premium product in every way, and that's not the case with the Index kit. 
    Maybe what Valve did to strengthen VR the last year wasn't that much the Index - it's probably much more Half-Life: Alyx. In many ways the Index kit is totally married to Alyx - as Bronwen Grimes, Technical Artist at Valve, said the Index controllers were directly made and modified for HL: Alyx:

    “We’ve really tried to make the best use of Index Controllers for those who have them, while also ensuring that those who don’t still have a great experience with Half-Life: Alyx. There’s a small set of things that Index Controllers can do that other controllers can’t do at all, and they’re fun but not required – like being able to crush a can that you’re holding in your hand. But there’s a larger set of things that work on any tracked controllers, yet end up being better on Index Controllers because we were developing them in concert with the game. The most obvious example is the core interaction players have with objects in Half-Life: Alyx – picking up, holding, dropping, throwing, and manipulating. Players perform these basic actions many times throughout the game, and over our years of playtesting, we’ve found that combining the player’s trigger usage with their tracked finger locations was the most successful method of supporting their intentions. So while you can perform most actions with just a trigger or a button, we just think it feels more natural with the way the Index Controllers operate. Finally, the ability for the player to relax their hands without dropping their controller turned out to be a significant factor in our Half-Life: Alyx playtests. As our Index Controller prototypes started replacing our older controllers in playtests, we started seeing players able to play for longer and longer stretches of time, because they weren’t required to hold onto a real-world object the entire time. This wasn’t really something we saw as a problem in our early days of VR development, but now that VR games are becoming longer and more fully featured, we think it’s becoming more important.”
    https://uploadvr.com/valve-index-alyx-interactions/

    Right now close to no game uses Index controllers optimally - not even Alyx. I do hope we will see more support for advanced finger movements, including Touch (where you can use the index finger separately), the next year. 
    Interesting what the next year will bring - a safe bet may be more games optimized for lcd hmds, but that would mostly be games that have been in development for less than a year, because 1 year ago close to every VR hmd used oled panels. The biggest impact of Rift-S, Index and Reverb may indeed be the change from oled to more high-res lcd panels, and the many changes to illumination and texture res the latter requires to truly shine. 

    Btw, for now these would be close to all the games and apps I use with my Index - note that these are (nearly) all bright games:

    • Alyx (ultramersion textures, solid 90 fps, res constantly adapts but usually feels much higher than 100%)
    • Boneworks (ultramersion textures, solid 90 fps using res 200% even with 2xMSAA and shadows=high)
    • Room VR: A Dark Matter (ultramersion textures, solid 90 fps, res 200%, no ambient occlusion)
    • Lucky's Tale (no SDE, great fov, solid 90 fps even forcing SteamVR res 200%)
    • Trover Saves The Universe (Revive, no SDE makes all the difference in this game, I've got close to solid 90 fps in res 150%, but I'm forcing very high in-game settings, works fine though). 
    • Moss (Revive 1.9.2, looks really awesome with no SDE and higher res - solid 90 fps, res 150%)
    • Blueplanet VR (close to ultramersion textures here and there, solid 90 fps, res 200%)
    • Museum of Other Realities (solid 90 fps, res 200%)
    • Talos Principle (solid 90 fps, res 125/150 % (DirectX/Vulkan), Ultra in-game settings). 
    • Vanishing Realms (solid 90 fps, res 200%)
    • Pistol Whip (Revive, fov really makes a difference it this game, solid 90 fps res 200% - that game often crashes to some fish-eye image distortion using my CV1, but never Reviving with the Index, quite weird)
    • Paper Beast (based on the awesome demo, solid 90 fps, res 200%)
    • Mini Motor Racing X (Revive, solid 90 fps using res 200% and 4xMSAA - due to the small cars, this game really shines with the Index compared to CV1 ss 2.0)
    • Garden of the Sea (down to res 150% but it still looks great - full finger tracking, great colors)
    • Synth Riders (solid 90 fps using res 200%)
    • Dead Effect 2 VR (don't remember the res I'm using, may not be 200% - this game is demanding and requires some fiddling with the settings, but looks really great with the Index)
    • SkyBox VR Video Player (Index shines in movies using this player - none of the other Steam VR movie players impressed me, including BigScreen).
    • The Curious Tale of the Stolen Pets (Revive, solid 90 fps in res 200%).  
    • Angry Birds (Revive, solid 90 fps res 200% - no SDE, great fov).
    • Kin (Revive, solid 90 fps res 200% - that game looks incredibly detailed using res 200%) 
    • Windlands 2 (Revive, solid 90 fps, res 150 or 200% - can't remember) 
    • Fujii (solid 90 fps, res 200%)

    The above is a very small part of my VR games and apps collection. I really do not use Index for those other games, even if I could, I use the CV1 due to oled and/or asw 2.0, and sometimes even the CV1 SDE is your friend. Note that close to all of the big exclusive Oculus games aren't on my Index list - because these play and look much better using the CV1 (ss 2.0), and that even includes Saints and Sinners. 

    During the past year I've learned to live with having both CV1 and Index connected to my rig. It has worked surprisingly well - currently I might be using Index more than CV1, but not a lot - I'd guess like 60% Index and 40% CV1 (right now CV1 wins due to Covert Ops). Having both hmds really feels like getting the best of both worlds. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    Maybe some of us have been lucky with our CV1s, and CV1s had their share of problems too (like glue under the lenses etc.) - but that said, my CV1 has never had any issues - can't say that about my Index.

    The main issue with the Index may be that when paying 1k people expect a premium product in every way, and that's not the case with the Index kit. 
    I second both points. Not only CV1, but my Quests had fewer issues than my index too (one dead green subpixel between two Quests - replaced in 6 business days)

    But I am a fanboy of Valve Index. Didn't used to be when I first got it. But I totally am now.

    Which is why it is so much more painful seeing these issues. Especially now that my index is away being replaced - I keep fretting I'm gonna get a dud back. Fingers crossed though; I'm starting to feel the withdrawals
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 875
    Trinity
    edited June 30
    some thumbsticks don't click. I read a few posts up.

    Hm, having taken apart both xbox controllers and ps4 controllers to see the thumbsticks i have had a hard time with them tbh.

    There's a fine hair thin metal sheet used,  its a spring and its ruined when bent, it affects the stick drift. On this theres the push in stick part.that clicks and is the stick press in button. It looks like this on the xbox one and ps4 controllers;



    I would think its a industry standard, the index uses a different type, have a look;



    Maybe because its a different type than the one the xbox one and ps4 uses the click gets broken sometimes?


  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    Maybe because its a different type than the one the xbox one and ps4 uses the click gets broken sometimes?


    The issue is that the depth of the shaft opening on the plastic part of the thumbstick is too great (or the shaft itself too short), so the bottom of the plastic bottoms out when pressed. There's a few videos on YouTube that show you how to do a DIY fix by lengthening the shaft or inserting a ball from a ball-tip pen into the hole. This provides an extra millimeter of clearance needed for click to work.

    I mulled over doing it myself, but decided against it. Clickgate didn't bother me enough to risk voiding warranty, so I kept it. Until a few months later when the drift developed - that's when Valve replaced the controller.

    Here's a link to one of the videos: 
  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 828
    3Jane
    ^^It's nice that someone found a fix, but these things cost £130 each so they should not be coming with such issues out of the box, so Valve needs to get this sorted as going by the Valve index forums a year on from launch and this seems to still be issues.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,387 Valuable Player
    OmegaM4N said:
    ^^It's nice that someone found a fix, but these things cost £130 each so they should not be coming with such issues out of the box, so Valve needs to get this sorted as going by the Valve index forums a year on from launch and this seems to still be issues.

    When you consider everything they got right with these controllers, it's damn right weird that they didn't fix such a small thing. What concerns me about all these VR companies is that they just seem to get away with selling things that are defective on release. If  it's not the controllers, it's the tracking that's off and if it's not the tracking then it's the displays blinking on and off.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,357 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    ....
    When you consider everything they got right with these controllers, it's damn right weird that they didn't fix such a small thing. What concerns me about all these VR companies is that they just seem to get away with selling things that are defective on release. If  it's not the controllers, it's the tracking that's off and if it's not the tracking then it's the displays blinking on and off.

    As with Oculus, there are some idiosyncrasies in the way Valve undertakes projects. And one of those is "Gabes-Way". In particular if a fault or failing is highlighted by the community, Valve will stick its feet in, and not budge, even if it hurts them. This is a throw back to the feeling that the internal high-table at Valve have the best foresight and to question is to show disloyalty. So when the fault with the controllers was revealed, it sadly fell into this idiosyncrasy and it will be some time till an official redress is made. A shame, but no company is perfect. But as seen with HL:A some changes can be made against these mentalities. 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    ....
    When you consider everything they got right with these controllers, it's damn right weird that they didn't fix such a small thing. What concerns me about all these VR companies is that they just seem to get away with selling things that are defective on release. If  it's not the controllers, it's the tracking that's off and if it's not the tracking then it's the displays blinking on and off.

    As with Oculus, there are some idiosyncrasies in the way Valve undertakes projects. And one of those is "Gabes-Way". In particular if a fault or failing is highlighted by the community, Valve will stick its feet in, and not budge, even if it hurts them. This is a throw back to the feeling that the internal high-table at Valve have the best foresight and to question is to show disloyalty. So when the fault with the controllers was revealed, it sadly fell into this idiosyncrasy and it will be some time till an official redress is made. A shame, but no company is perfect. But as seen with HL:A some changes can be made against these mentalities. 

    That could be, still the left controller I got in November 2019 had the new modified thumbstick - so at least after 3 months Valve did react and tried to fix the thumbstick. Unfortunately the fix may not work for all, but my left controller has now worked for 8 months with no problems at all, while the first lasted 3 months before drifting. Note that all my time in Boneworks, Alyx and Room VR has been using the new controller, so it has been used a lot and still works. 
    I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games, and should something fail after warranty I've accepted the possibility of having to buy a new controller, base station etc., but living within the EU I do have 2 years of warranty, still got 1 year left... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • AlienokAlienok Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    It's very interesting
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,956 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

    That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,387 Valuable Player
    edited July 1
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

    That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).


    I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,956 Valuable Player
    edited July 1
    RedRizla said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

    That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).


    I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.

    That's encouraging to hear. I haven't tried fallout 4 in several months. I should try it again and see if anything's different nowadays. Last time I tried I was getting frame dips and it was bothering me. I had to lower settings and then I wasn't happy with the look of the game lol.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 2
    pyroth309 said:
    RedRizla said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    I'm really happy for the Index, even if I need a 3080 Ti to fully enjoy the more advanced games,

    That's something I plan to juggle in the fall when the 3080TI drops. Do I want to go for a Reverb 2 and possibly end up in a similar situation that I am now with my Odyssey where my 1080 simply can't push it enough in the more advanced games to avoid visible frame dips. (Fall out 4, Asgard's Wrath and several other revive games). And, the possibility of having to wait for WMR support added to games post release which happens a good bit. Or do I want to go for the more complete package with Index and know that I can power through anything and still have pretty damn good visuals and the superior tracking (albeit sketchy quality of manufacturing of the controllers).


    I have a HP Reverb and I run Fallout 4 at 90 FPS with no dips and all settings on high. I own a Geforce 2080ti, so a Geforce 3080ti will easily run everything at 90 FPS, unless the game is badly optimized. Flight Sims will still struggle because a lot of them use the CPU, but most games will be fine. My Geforce 2080ti works great with the HP Reverb, so it should be the same with HP G2 because the G2 has the same resolution as the first HP Reverb.

    That's encouraging to hear. I haven't tried fallout 4 in several months. I should try it again and see if anything's different nowadays. Last time I tried I was getting frame dips and it was bothering me. I had to lower settings and then I wasn't happy with the look of the game lol.


    The last time I tried Fallout 4 I had to use CV1 ss 1.4 (according to OTT, which does respond also in Steam) to get solid 90 fps, ss 2.0 was way too demanding. - And I don't think that game supports any asw 2.0. Now, if I could use ss 2.0 (SteamVR 200%) with my CV1, then the game looked okay-ish, but ss 1.4 was too blurry for me. Performance was really bad - and I have not seen any new patches since then. 
    Back to Index, I could not get the controllers to work properly - but maybe I need to load some custom config (but already there my blood pressure starts rising just slightly, lol). The performance wasn't very good either - but depends on the image quality you want (like amount of additional in-game antialiasing). My conclusion still stands - I'll need something incredibly much faster than my oc'ed GTX 1080  to enjoy Fallout4 - and that's just using the CV1 (res 200% = ss 2.0). 
    Might give the Index another try later, but I fear the worst, lol - the only attractive thing about Index in FO4 is the native Steam driver which may - or may not - provide better performance. Textures aren't very good, I doubt they'll look better using Index - CV1 SDE might be a great friend in FO4 (did load some high-res textures mods, but these did not cover all surfaces, far from it, and performance did not exactly improve...) 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    edited July 2
    RuneSR2 said:
    The last time I tried Fallout 4 I had to use CV1 ss 1.4 (according to OTT, which does respond also in Steam) to get solid 90 fps, ss 2.0 was way too demanding...

    ... Back to Index: could not get the controllers to work properly - but maybe I need to load some custom config (but already there my blood pressure starts rising just slightly, lol). The performance wasn't very good either - but depends on the image quality you want (like amount of additional in-game antialiasing). My conclusion still stands - I'll need something incredibly much faster than my oc'ed GTX 1080  to enjoy Fallout4
    You're not wrong about that. I just finished FO4 a month ago - I have Zotac's 1080Ti Mini and it barely chugged along at 80 FPS on my index. And that's with all antialiasing completely off! The game is so blurry to begin with, that turning AA off was actually an improvement - sawtooth edges and all.

    You totally need new bindings for that game if you use Knuckles, btw. I was able to find a really good set though, and it made the play intuitive.

    But I can totally echo the blood boiling frustration you're experiencing. - why is Fallout so poorly optimized for VR, Bethesda? I'm sure Bob is a great guy and an asset for your company, but he's just a janitor; why not get the same dude who ported Skyrim to work on FO4 VR instead? =P
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    Just bought this one - it does not support native Oculus drivers, so I'm using Index although I'd rather use CV1 for oled:



    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1036260/Journey_For_Elysium/

    Turns out, it's not bad with the Index, it's not that dark - but it feels kinda old school. Works fine with Knuckles, but no finger tracking - full locomotion and smooth turning are supported. The models are nice, but animations are lacking. For about $5 on sale it's ok - I have played for about an hour, have not yet finished the game. Works fine with res 150% in 90 fps with the Index and my heavily oc'ed GTX 1080. 




    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,387 Valuable Player
    edited July 3
    @RuneSR2 - This looks like an awesome experience and it's it's £3.59. I'm going to purchase this now.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 4
    First we got a nice pancake:


    - then we got another nice pancake (9/10 positive ratings on Steam):


    - which then was transformed into a real game, although designed for Quest (and ported to Rift):



    https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/2909467265792435/?ranking_trace=1943584525923090_2909467265792435_SKYLINEWEB_1489565597808736%3D%3D2nd8VHq6Ttso2WX9P

    It's an Oculus exclusive for now, but it works more than perfectly using the special program called ReAnimator ... no... ReJuvenator...ReLive.. ReVoke...uh, whatever  ;) 

    Normally I have a passion for disliking the horrible phoneVR-like Race-To-The-Bottom Quest games, but this game is rather good. I guess it's highly optimized and doesn't need tons of polys or photorealistic textures. Now, this game was nice using my CV1 ss 2.0 - although the SDE was disturbingly easy to see due to the bright colors - but the game's out-of-this-world amazing using Index with no-SDE, big fov and res 200% in solid 120 Hz. In fact I think this is the first game I can run in solid 120 Hz even when forcing res 200% (that's 17 mill pixels per frame). 
    I'm in such a good mood I might even drop 30 bucks on Lies Beneath, lol (which is another close to 100% Quest port), because Index res 200% in 120 Hz is close to a dream come true. Still, res is way more important than refresh rate - but when res is maxed, 120+ Hz become really interesting.  

    Seems like I could become a rather great fan of (some) Quest games!  :D 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 6
    Slightly interesting, but in a shop I saw Sony's new super-cheap 50/60Hz 85" lcd TV (2020 model) - the price is down to about $2k. And I saw something that I knew too well from the Index - namely the columns:



    Now my own 100/120 Hz 85" tv does not have these columns at all, but the intro price for that tv was $10k - although that was in spring 2018. I'm still guessing it has a much better panel (Series 9) than the new cheap tvs (Series 8), black levels looked much more gray-ish on the new TV too (but hard to judge without having both TVs next to eachother). 
    Of course you're not going to ever see the columns on an 85" tv unless you're really close - and know what to look for (the columns are dynamic, they come and go, you have to be fast to "catch" them - different colors may expose them differently etc). It took my 12 year old son some time to see the columns on the TV even if I repeatedly told him what to look for - but finally he noticed them. Guess most people won't ever see them - but it's much easier using an LCD hmd, lol. Several also see them in the Rift-S, but the Rift-S panel is oriented differently than the Index panels, so in Rift-S you get horizontal columns instead of vertical. 
    Not sure what to make of this - maybe Valve used some cheap panels in the Index, or maybe the columns are especially seen in panels with very low refresh rates? Or maybe it's caused by certain types of lcd panels? I don't have the answer... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 7
    Seems like Road To VR is being somewhat optimistic, lol - just because the waiting time for the hmd alone may have decreased:

    https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-stock-check-headset-availability-shipping-countries/

    Base stations continue to be totally unavailable. 


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    edited July 7
    RuneSR2 said:
    Seems like Road To VR is being somewhat optimistic, lol - just because the waiting time for the hmd alone may have decreased:

    https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-stock-check-headset-availability-shipping-countries/

    Base stations continue to be totally unavailable. 


    I just got a word that mine shipped today and is expected to be here on Wednesday. If that's the case, total turnaround would be 2.5 weeks since I first hit them up.

    EDIT: Actually, it's probably a refurbished headset. Apples and oranges; it's a warranty issue. Sorry for the brain fart, lol.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Seems like Road To VR is being somewhat optimistic, lol - just because the waiting time for the hmd alone may have decreased:

    https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-stock-check-headset-availability-shipping-countries/

    Base stations continue to be totally unavailable. 


    I just got a word that mine shipped today and is expected to be here on Wednesday. If that's the case, total turnaround would be 2.5 weeks since I first hit them up.

    EDIT: Actually, it's probably a refurbished headset. Apples and oranges; it's a warranty issue. Sorry for the brain fart, lol.
    How about the columns, did you ever notice them? - also interesting with the new or refurbished headset!  B)
    One dude had 5 hmds, he says they all had the columns, but to different degrees. I don't always see them, seems to depend a lot on colors - maybe also slightly on hmd temp (before and after warm-up).
    Would greatly dislike getting a new hmd just to find out it also has the columns, especially since my hmd seems to have no other issues (no dead pixels, no dust behind lenses, no glue problems etc)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    RuneSR2 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Seems like Road To VR is being somewhat optimistic, lol - just because the waiting time for the hmd alone may have decreased:

    https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-index-stock-check-headset-availability-shipping-countries/

    Base stations continue to be totally unavailable. 


    I just got a word that mine shipped today and is expected to be here on Wednesday. If that's the case, total turnaround would be 2.5 weeks since I first hit them up.

    EDIT: Actually, it's probably a refurbished headset. Apples and oranges; it's a warranty issue. Sorry for the brain fart, lol.
    How about the columns, did you ever notice them? - also interesting with the new or refurbished headset!  B)
    One dude had 5 hmds, he says they all had the columns, but to different degrees. I don't always see them, seems to depend a lot on colors - maybe also slightly on hmd temp (before and after warm-up).
    Would greatly dislike getting a new hmd just to find out it also has the columns, especially since my hmd seems to have no other issues (no dead pixels, no dust behind lenses, no glue problems etc)
    My first one had them, but they didn't bother me. In fact, it was only after I looked the issue up online that I could see them. And then also noticed them in my Rift S (differently oriented though). But they never did bother me. Fingers crossed that a new one isn't worse than the previous one.

    It's been explained to me that they have something to do with difference in persistence between subpixels. Different colors of subpixels supposedly have different persistence, and are far more susceptible to minute differences in conditions during the manufacture process (which is why some headsets have it more pronounced than others). As a result they become most noticeable while your head is turning. A millisecond of difference between one color of subpixels and the other two is enough to throw off the balance and create the effect.

    My biggest worry is that I'll get a headset which has panels from two different batches of LCDs. That's far more likely to produce noticeable issues
  • Comrade_IvanComrade_Ivan Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    edited July 8
    ...it's probably a refurbished headset...
    To which I now say:

    Cause a BNIB unit arrived after all.

    If it's a refurbished one, it sure fooled me - not a spec of dust on it, brand new cables, all nicely wrapped and protected in original packaging.

    Vertical columns? Same as before - barely noticeable even when looking for them. I just spent an hour in the headset looking for issues, and I'm one happy customer =)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:

    Personally I've found that when the bass gets really deep, vibrations are coming from the Index speakers. Rift CV1 might do the same - and now we're talking really deep bass - but to a much lesser degree. 

    My question - if anyone has the time to check it out - if you start Fantasynth (free app) using the Index, are any Index owners able to not experience any rattling in the speakers? Note I have my volume set to 100 (max) in SteamVR, which really isn't very loud, but do reduce the volume if it's too loud. Fantasynth can be downloaded here:

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/624460/Fantasynth_Chez_Nous/

    I'd love to test my theory that all Indices will have this issues - but only when the bass gets really deep - I don't experience sound problems in Pistol Whip, Boneworks etc.
    For the record, my high-end Sony headphones (40 and 50 mm drivers) play Fantasynth with as much bass as CV1 and without any rattling at all. 

    Some other users convinced me that the Index speakers should indeed be able to produce even the deepest bass with no vibrations. I contacted Valve, and they agreed - and just sent me a new speaker. The new speaker does indeed work perfectly - so do not accept even the slightest sound problems from your Index speakers ;)

    It's a slow Thursday - I'll try to pump up this post with some extremely exciting unboxing shots! o:)  :D This also shows the awesome commitment from Valve, they even sent me a new screwdriver  B)






    Some close-up shots of the speaker and arm, since I don't remove them often, lol - now's the chance ;)




    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,912 Valuable Player
    edited July 9
    After some Blueplanet VR, where you can see like miles into the horizon, I felt like 66 mm IPD was better using Index than my usual 64 mm. Back using the CV1, 64 mm still felt optimal.
    Starting to doubt what my real IPD is, today I visited an optician and got my IPD results - I guess their equipment is much better than anything else. She said I was the first ever to get my IPD measured due to VR glasses, lol :blush:  Interestingly, my result was 63.94 mm - surprisingly close to the 64 mm I've been using since 2017 based on my CV1 results. The optician explained that minor errors of measurement could occur, and looking at things very close or very far away could also have a minor impact. I wonder if dialing in the Index lenses could have an impact on IPD... 

    But nice to finally know my real number - I guess I'm sticking to the 64 mm I've been using in both Index and CV1. Would be nice if Valve made a proper IPD tool like Oculus to optimally measure IPD and find the sweet spot. I use the CV1 calibration tool every time I use the CV1.  
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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