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AMD Ryzen 9 3900X vs. Rysen 7 3700X and Intel i9-9900K, i7-9700K, i7-8700K and i7-7700K

RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
edited July 10 in General


Feels like hard work checking out latest cpus, because it doesn't interest me much. And why? - Because using the high-end gaming cpus released during the last 2 years or more VR games should work great and not be cpu bound (bottlenecked). Then again AMD seems on to great stuff with their new Ryzen 9 3900X cpu and let's see how it goes. 

Note that a common mistake is to test cpus using high res in games - doing that you risk transforming what should be a cpu test into a gpu test. Imagine testing new cpus in 4K with 8xMSAA in modern games using a GTX 1050 - then when could show that a cpu made 10 years ago is just a fast as an i9-9900K, because they result in exactly the same slideshow ;) 

It's important to find benchmarks that aren't gpu bound - or rather gpu bound as little as possible. Anandtech does offer tests done in 720/768p, which is nice - but in theory I'd like gaming results from even lower res, but many games may no longer support lower res than 720p. Remember that increasing the res only affects the GPU, the cpu calculates the same amount of polys in 640x480 as in 7360x4360 (8K), but the GPU does not at all have same workload when res increases. Thus res should always be as low as possible when testing cpus - and the video card should be as fast as possible to make it possible for us to see real cpu differences. 

Let's start with Tech Power Up - 720p using a 2080 Ti:


Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900x/

The results do indicate that the Ryzen 9 3900X is performing great - there's close to no difference between high end cpus, at least not something easily spotted with the naked eye. But the cpus could all be bottlenecked by the 2080 Ti even in 1280x720. So for gaming just buy the cheapest solution? Unfortunately Tech Power Up didn't include the i7-7700K, but Anandtech did. Let's check up and try to verify (or falsify) TechPowrUp's results:

World of Tanks

Setting 3900X to 100% (like TechPowerUp) we see:

i9-9900K = 109 %
i7-9700K = 105 %
i7-8700K = 102 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 99 %
i7-7700K = 93 %

You could gain 17 % going from 7700K to 9900K, but it'll probably translate to much less in the real world and in VR games, which usually are GPU limited. But interesting that high-end cpus can push more than 600 fps in that game. 

Shadow of War

Setting 3900X to 100% we see:

i7-8700K = 103 %
i9-9900K = 103 %
i7-9700K = 101 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 99 %
i7-7700K = 82 %

Here the i7-7700K is about 25% slower than the fastest cpus, so of course something could be gained... 

Ashes of the Singularity
 
Setting 3900X to 100% we see:

i9-9900K = 105 %
i7-9700K = 103 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
7-8700K = 99 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 98 %
i7-7700K = 84 %

Going from 7700K to 9900K 25% may be gained in this RTS game. 

Strange Brigade (Vulkan)

Setting 3900X to 100% we see:

i9-9900K = 104 %
i7-9700K = 102 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 100 %
7-8700K = 98 %
i7-7700K = 85 %

About 22% can be gained going from 7700K to 9900K. 

GTA-V

Setting 3900X to 100% we see:

i7-9700K = 102 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 101 %
i9-9900K = 101 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
7-8700K = 97 %
i7-7700K = 88 %

About 15% can be gained going from 7700K to 9900K. 

F1 2018

Setting 3900X to 100% we see:

Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
i9-9900K = 98 %
Ryzen 7 3700X = 95 %
i7-9700K = 94 %
7-8700K = 87 %
i7-7700K = 78 %

About 26% can be gained going from 7700K to 9900K. 

These were the 6 games benchmarked by Anandtech. Averaging all Anandtech's results we get:

i9-9900K = 103 % (range 98 - 109 %)
i7-9700K = 101 % (range 94 - 105 %)
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 % (range 100 - 100 %)
Ryzen 7 3700X = 99 % (range 95 - 101 %)
i7-8700K = 98 %  (range 87 - 103 %)
i7-7700K = 85 % (range 78 - 93 %)

Here compared to TechPowerUp's average results (from 10 games):

i9-9900K = 107 % 
i7-9700K = 106 %
i7-8700K = 103 % 
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 % 
Ryzen 7 3700X = 96% 
i7-7700K = not tested

If we now combine TechPowerUp's results with Anantech's results we get these final results:

i9-9900K = 105 % 
i7-9700K = 104 % 
i7-8700K = 101 %  
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 % 
Ryzen 7 3700X = 98 % 
i7-7700K = 85 % (only tested by Anandtech, probably will result in less than 3% error margin)

Thus going from 7700K to 9900K may result in about 25 % performance in cpu bound games - but since nearly all current VR games are gpu bound - and even an i7-7700K may be able to produce way more than 90 (and 144) fps, benefits of upgrading cpu to 9900K or Ryzen 9 3900X may be very limited or non-existent if you've got a 7700K, similar or faster cpu. 

For now I'll continue not to care about cpus ;) 

BTW - power consumption reveal something interesting:


Suddenly 7700K still shines ;) And 3700X too. Setting 3900X to 100% we see (lower is now best):

Ryzen 7 3700X = 63 %
i7-7700K = 67 %
i7-9700K = 87 %
Ryzen 9 3900X = 100 %
i7-8700K = 106 %
i9-9900K = 118 %

Suddenly Ryzen 3700X looks like king of the hill - it's performing so close to 9900K in games that you'll probably never know the difference, but the 9900K uses 87% more power than 3700X, quite amazing that AMD could achieve such amazing performance per watt with the 3700X!

Source (Anandtech): https://www.anandtech.com/show/14605/the-and-ryzen-3700x-3900x-review-raising-the-bar/


Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

"Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"

Comments

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,705 Valuable Player
    edited July 10
    @RuneSR2 - Would you say an i7 6700 has around the same performance as a i7 7700? I use an i7 6700 so would I see a massive difference if I opted to get another Cpu for my Geforce 2080ti?
    Edit: Seems not when we are talking about 4k resolution



  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
    edited July 10
    RedRizla said:
    @RuneSR2 - Would you say an i7 6700 has around the same performance as a i7 7700? I use an i7 6700 so would I see a massive difference if I opted to get another Cpu for my Geforce 2080ti?
    Edit: Seems not when we are talking about 4k resolution


    Maybe better shown in the chart below - 4K would be a gpu test. Below a 7700K was 5% faster than 6700K. Now in my first post 7700K ended at 85 % of the Ryzen 3900X. So we'll expect 6700K to achieve 81 % of the Ryzen 3900X (actually 80.6 % therefore the 81%). Based on 7700K vs. 6700K here:



    I don't think you'll notice any difference between using a 6700K or 9900K in current VR games - even the 2080 Ti will easily be the bottleneck when you start to increase ss. Even if 9900K can do like 300 fps and 6700K 240 fps you only need 90 or maybe 144 fps for VR. I doubt that Lone Echo 2 or Stormland would require more than 6700K for 90 fps all maxed out. But all maxed out (ss 2.0, full MSAA) you may need something faster than 2080 Ti for 90 fps, we'll see... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
    BTW sometime ago I tested 16GB DDR4 2400 MHz vs. 3200 MHz - I got these numbers (i7-7700K cpu), the green numbers show how much faster 3200 MHz is compared to 2400 MHz in percent:


    Going from 2400 to 3200 MHz resulted in average 7 % more performance in heavily cpu bound tests (6% including Ice Storm, but I think that one was GPU limited). Seeing that 9900K is only 5% faster than 3900X, maybe 3900X with 3200 MHz system ram is faster than 9900K with 2400 MHz ram - in short, don't use slow ram in your rig  B)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    I think my trusty old 6700k will stay with my 2080ti for a while longer, need to up my ram from 16 to 32gb though.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,705 Valuable Player
    I'm getting by with 16gb but 32gb is something I'm considering now.
  • FangzhouFangzhou Posts: 45
    Brain Burst
    Actually my 6700k OC to 4.7Ghz performs almost the same as 8700k.
    First, most games are GPU bound (I am using a 2k monitor for normal gaming, Rift S for VR, both have high resolution). You will not play games at 720p like the testing. For me the only CPU consuming game is VRChat, the dynamic bones rely on CPU. 
    Second, even for CPU, most games rely on single trending performance. And that’s why a 4-core [email protected] can be the same as 6-core 8700k in many games. 
    Well if you are using the desktop for rendering/modeling/programming (many VRChat users need to use Unity and Blender for their avatars and worlds) or live streaming, just go for 3900X and enjoy the 12-core. If only use PC for gaming, over clock the 7700k to 4.8Ghz and it will performs the same as 3900X (or even better) in most games
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,700 Valuable Player
    edited July 10
    Fangzhou said:
    You will not play games at 720p like the testing. 

    That is correct, but it's the only way showing real cpu differences. If you test in 4K the test only shows the gpu and has notthing to do with detecting real cpu differences. Or you could just say that in 4K the gpu means everything - like this:



    Even a 2080 Ti doesn't help: 



    And now we can conclude that all cpus are the same ;)

    Of course you may not see the real differences when using high levels of ss - but when you upgrade to RTX 4180 in 2022 maybe you will - in 4K - or you may have special games requiring more cpu power than other, but usually VR gaming doesn't need a lot of cpu power - also due to the many PSVR games. Lone Echo could be more interesting, unfortunately no one is testing new cpus in VR games. And when I say testing I don't mean some random YouTuber measuring a few games, but pros like Anandtech and Toms Hardware etc. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,047 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    I think my trusty old 6700k will stay with my 2080ti for a while longer, need to up my ram from 16 to 32gb though.
    Ummm unless you are using Photoshop or vid editing.....no you don’t. 

    More RAM doesn’t mean faster pc. 
  • cleanupdisccleanupdisc Posts: 212
    Nexus 6
    When the next gen gaming consoles come out, i suspect cpus will matter much more. For now a 4 core will be just fine. But in 2021 your 4 core i7 7700k maybe due for an upgrade.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,705 Valuable Player
    When the next gen gaming consoles come out, i suspect cpus will matter much more. For now a 4 core will be just fine. But in 2021 your 4 core i7 7700k maybe due for an upgrade.
    Why? What game do you think will use all 4 cores?
  • cleanupdisccleanupdisc Posts: 212
    Nexus 6
    edited July 10
    RedRizla said:
    When the next gen gaming consoles come out, i suspect cpus will matter much more. For now a 4 core will be just fine. But in 2021 your 4 core i7 7700k maybe due for an upgrade.
    Why? What game do you think will use all 4 cores?
    Games that are multiplatform that come out with the ps vr 2. With the new cpu architecture of zen 2 we can see intel is being very competitive also. We had 4 cores 8 threads for like 7 years straight.
    https://youtu.be/ozM8p6c-Ljc

    Now we are seeing advancements with competition. Your 4 cores are fine right now but when intel is releasing 6 core 12thread i5s, your 4 cores turn into an i3.

    Either way your 4 core will be fine for gaming for a good while. Just dont think its gonna be amazing for the next 6 years!



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