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When Will HTC Ever Learn..?

snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
Argos are selling the HTC Vive Cosmos for 700 quid:

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1478655

So the Rift S is going to be 300 quid cheaper and the Valve Index only 220 quid more expensive.

No surprise tbh, the company has been run by idiots for quite some time now.
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Comments

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,550 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    True but we don't know the specs yet. It has a higher resolution than the Index and an extra camera than the Rift S but I think that is all we know.

    HP Reverb is selling well for £600 and it has wonky controllers.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,717 Valuable Player
    Sorry @snowdog - but the same way you said that HTC would be gone last year, the same way that you said the HTC Vive would never sell or the HTC Vive Pro at their respective price points - I think you have to kinda face it, that though HTC's business strategy is full of holes, they still seem to have managed to survive.

    I am the last one on the planet to defend them, but they have found a business position that works for them, and they seem to be doubling down on it. That injection of Google funding making all the difference. They have invested heavy in supporting Enterprise (though they have burnt some bridges). Now we see Cosmos offering a alternative to the Index - with some interesting new "tethered" features.

    Now we wait and see if OculusVR will work with Lenovo on a Rift-S+ concept to address the issues, or if they feel that being the cheap PC option in a undefined market is a business winner - or if focusing 100% on Quest (Standalone) will be the smart play as most feel they will.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    I was right about the Vive and the Vive Pro too, the Steam Survey every month says so. B)
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,804 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    Argos are selling the HTC Vive Cosmos for 700 quid:

    https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1478655

    So the Rift S is going to be 300 quid cheaper and the Valve Index only 220 quid more expensive.

    No surprise tbh, the company has been run by idiots for quite some time now.



    Is it a secret ???
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,550 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    They must of launched it too early, it was there an hour ago.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190801203710/https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1478655
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,804 Volunteer Moderator
    Ahhh found it ;)


    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,413 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    I think that when it comes to HTC, you are spot on @snowdog

    The only reason HTC survived this long is because of the Google buyout. That proves their faulty business model. Especially when we observe the multiple years of consecutive financial loss. No one can claim that HTC's business model works when they suffered that much financial ruin and managed to stick around only after selling some of their most valued IP.

    That's like saying that you are good at driving after you crash all your cars but continue riding a bicycle that a friend donated to you.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    I was right about the Vive and the Vive Pro too, the Steam Survey every month says so. B)
    Are you expecting HTC to sell at cost just because Facebook can? Take Facebook out of the equation and Oculus would have to ramp up prices too pay its employees a wage. No ones getting rich off Oculus, they are getting rich off FB which is why most departments are now under the FB umbrella. 

    I'm not expecting them to sell at cost, I just disagree with their price gouging. Same with Valve too.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    snowdog said:
    Argos are selling the HTC Vive Cosmos for 700 quid:

    https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1478655

    So the Rift S is going to be 300 quid cheaper and the Valve Index only 220 quid more expensive.

    No surprise tbh, the company has been run by idiots for quite some time now.

    An extra camera, larger resolution screen, earphones, and an actual mechanical IPD adjustment do mean a higher price. And as OculusHomie points out, Oculus/Facebook are selling at a loss just to push the headset to as many people as possible. Does that mean the Cosmos is worth $365 more than the Rift-S? Not sure...but the mechanical IPD adjustment was too much for Oculus to put in the Rift-S and still keep it at $399. The Cosmos also flips up...that's an added cost in parts and production.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    Oculus will be making a profit on each Rift S sold. They're selling the Quest at cost so a reasonable assumption would be that they're making ~$100 on each Rift S sold.

    I don't mind them doing that because they've done it for two reasons:

    1) To make a profit on hardware for once.

    2) Having the product launching for $299/£299 is, believe it or not, TOO cheap. If people see something that cheap they'll assume it isn't good enough quality. Oculus would end up having more sales at the higher price.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    If they're making a profit of ~$100, then why couldn't they afford to include an actual manual IPD adjustment?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    Oculus. Lenovo are probably getting a 5-7% cut of the sale price through their Licence deal and manufacturing fee. 10% at the VERY most.

    Oculus and Lenovo aren't 50-50 partners.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Spuzzum said:

    An extra camera, larger resolution screen, earphones, and an actual mechanical IPD adjustment do mean a higher price. And as OculusHomie points out, Oculus/Facebook are selling at a loss just to push the headset to as many people as possible. Does that mean the Cosmos is worth $365 more than the Rift-S? Not sure...but the mechanical IPD adjustment was too much for Oculus to put in the Rift-S and still keep it at $399. The Cosmos also flips up...that's an added cost in parts and production.
    It has everything I was expecting Rift S to have and for that reason I will consider buying it when I hear more about it. I wonder how much Oculus would have charged for Rift S if it had all the things HTC Cosmos has. I want to hear about the build quality of this HTC Cosmos first though, and also see if the launch goes smoothly. I just hope it doesn't have the glare of the Valve index or all the problems we have seen with other headsets this year.
    I would have liked to have seen it priced at £600, but I'm not going to moan about £700 if it's a good VR headset without  problems. I've also heard their customer service isn't great, so I'll be purchasing it from a store instead of getting it direct.
    Now we wait and see if OculusVR will work with Lenovo on a Rift-S+ concept to address the issues, or if they feel that being the cheap PC option in a undefined market is a business winner - or if focusing 100% on Quest (Standalone) will be the smart play as most feel they will.
    I think it's time for Oculus to cater for the higher end PC -VR market, or risk losing it to HTC and Valve. A Rift S + would be nice, I've being saying this all along. I've also said that if you want to get billions of people into VR then you have to cater for both the cheaper and higher end markets.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,717 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    I was right about the Vive and the Vive Pro too, the Steam Survey every month says so. B)

    As you know not all users run Steam - its obvious, unless you dont want to admit it?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    I was right about the Vive and the Vive Pro too, the Steam Survey every month says so. B)

    As you know not all users run Steam - its obvious, unless you dont want to admit it?

    The vast majority do because Viveport is pants compared to Steam and the Oculus Store.

    Now you COULD argue that a reasonable chunk of VR headset owners only use the Oculus Store because you gain access to it whenever Rift and Rift S owners put their headsets on, but the amount of Vive and Vive Pro owners that ONLY use Viveport would be a VERY small minority, even after the Infinity thing started.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,413 Valuable Player
    Anyone with a Vive is going to have Steam, that's just a no-brainer. VivePort can't compete, and there isn't much of a reason for someone to spend all that money that HTC demands for their VR HMD's, and then completely avoid the best VR Environment and StoreFront available.

    That's like buying a sports car but never getting on a highway.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,290 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    £700….... Now I don't know exact details about cosmos like FOV and IPD adjustment and tracking quality. I have not followed it recently perhaps you have... But £700?. I could live with that IF it is high quality VR.

    Significantly cheaper than index and decent resolution. Am pretty interested to be honest. 
    Put it this way I would pay that for a premium oculus rift. I need to know more but the price has not put me off like index did
    Also Argos for me are a local store and their customer service is top drawer so would be more happy buying from them than direct from HTC
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,717 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    I was right about the Vive and the Vive Pro too, the Steam Survey every month says so. B)

    As you know not all users run Steam - its obvious, unless you dont want to admit it?

    The vast majority do because Viveport is pants compared to Steam and the Oculus Store.
    .....

    No argument here about the quality of Viveport - or Viveport arcade. But again, you are making an unhealthy assumption on the "vast majority" - Enterprise represents 40% of HTC VIVE, VIVE PRO deployment, and these groups do not use the Steam platform. You are also missing out the SpringboardVR platform that has a major share in this sector. I know its easy to get fixated in the claimed Steam Oculu>Vive number battle but there is a world outside of this.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,413 Valuable Player
    If it's really true that Enterprise makes up 40% of HTC's VR business (although zero evidence has been introduced to prove that), then they are in even more trouble that I thought! Not only is their attempt to double down on Enterprise VR very recent, there have been zero indicators that any of their efforts have landed deals dealing with millions, or even thousands of units. On top of that, HTC would be trying to compete with Microsoft in the VR Enterprise arena, and Microsoft has their own platform that is already being used by global organizations (including Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 companies).

    Unless sales figures are introduced to prove otherwise, VR for the Enterprise doesn't help HTC's case in this matter at all.

    Lastly, the price for Cosmos as discussed in this thread is the Consumer price, not Enterprise Licensing price. And HTC's financial ruin over the years is due to their Consumer pricing model. Bringing up Enterprise in this discussion is a red herring, and quite irrelevant. HTC has always had an Enterprise offering for their products. But that didn't save them from needing a Google buyout to survive.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,413 Valuable Player
    Seems that this price is an unconfirmed rumor so far; and Argo may have just used that price as a placeholder.


  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,935 Valuable Player
    That guy is wrong about Argos, they're very well known for having decent prices. Not sure where he got that idea from. Perhaps not when you compare them to the likes of Amazon but that goes for just about every retailer on the planet.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    I didn't understand what the guy was saying in that video the audio seemed really bad.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,290 Valuable Player
    This is a good price if the headset is decent. I will certainly be interested in getting one. However, I am going to go out on a limb and say it will look quite similar to the Index minus the smooth 120/144hz playback and slightly wider FOV.


    System Specs: ASUS NVIDIA RTX 3090 TUF GAMING OC 24GB , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Will the HTC Cosmos be able to use the wireless device it has for other Vive headsets? I could then get myself the HTC Cosmos and wireless device and basically have myself a PC -VR wireless headset for the price of the Valve index. Happy days if I can do this.
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,440 Valuable Player
    It’s HTC. They NEVER LEARN. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    Digikid1 said:
    It’s HTC. They NEVER LEARN. 
    Are you saying the HTC Cosmos can't use the same wireless device it uses for the other HTC headsets? I'm not sure what you mean by they never learn? There's a few people in this thread who don't seem to mind it being £699, if that's what you mean.
    I myself will be looking at it -Especially if I can use it wireless for the same price I'd pay for the Valve index.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    I just read it should be able to do wireless with a device like the Vive pro has. What's even more interesting is I think it might be able to connect to your mobile phone. It also has colour pass through camera's and there's even a possibility that it might connect to external sensors.

  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,163 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Just look up the headset - for 700 it does seem a little over price - but really - it seems to be in the middle with its own feature set. Downside it wont have the Oculus store backing - but really doesn't seem that bad. You are getting a "better" screen, same strap as the "pro" versions, head phones, flip in out easy access, and a few other features for 300 more than the R S. Really - the price doesn't seem that bad off considering PC owners buy the Index and HTC/CV1 for around the same on release. 

    I guess when you compare all headsets - it really just comes down to what you want as a customer. This is a good thing as this offers choice to users. We have low cost options now to highest end. So at that point - it really just comes down to what having a hing means to you. Some people will live with out it - while others think its worth every penny to be able to flip in and out to work on code/see the real life.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,817 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    @Mradr - Well if the HTC Cosmos has all the features in the link I posted, then it has more then just the things you've posted about. There's talk about it connecting to you mobile phone, colour pass through camera's, possible support for external sensors. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about it and hope this is all true. I also want to know more about the 40% more clarity with the new lenses
    Just want to add any signs of problems like with the other VR headsets launched this year and I won't be looking to buy it. I want this to work right out of the box.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,413 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    I guess when you compare all headsets - it really just comes down to what you want as a customer.

    A sensibly priced product is a good "want" for most consumers.
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