Why I'm no longer jealous of the index. And why the index really isn't 2nd gen. — Oculus
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Why I'm no longer jealous of the index. And why the index really isn't 2nd gen.

inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
Project 2501
I was hoping that the index would be as good as the beginning hype because competition is good and it benefits vr. I wish the index blew away the rift s in every way because again competition helps vr advance. I wanted to use my rift s for a while and I wanted the index to be out long enough to form an opinion. Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected. I respect anyone's opinion that say otherwise. But when I read and see reviews of people that say things like well any game that has a great use of the analog stick the rift s controllers are much  better and tech numbers dictate for a higher resolution but those tech numbers go towards creating a wider fov so you see very little difference res wise between the index and rift s. And I'm very happy with the s tracking. I'm disappointed in how the index came out. I really don't feel it's a true 2nd gen. Headset.I would rather the index blown the rift away with the above to advance vr
 Maybe next time.
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Comments

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 4
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh. Do you want people to argue why they purchased a Valve index and enjoy it or something? I'm glad you are no-longer jealous if that's the point you were making.
    I myself am pleased for anyone who is happy with their purchase. I'm looking at the HTC Cosmos or HP Reverb and hope people will be happy for me if I enjoy it.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh. Do you want people to argue why they purchased a Valve index and enjoy it or something?
    Not at all. 1st off i said I respect anyone's opinion that is otherwise. This was a personal blog applying to me. I'm sure that a great many people are happy with their index purchase.  The point was I was jealous but happy a possible second gen was coming out but gave the reasons why for me it didn't hapoen and why I was no longer jealous.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh. Do you want people to argue why they purchased a Valve index and enjoy it or something?
    In all fairness, his point isn't very different than the point you were trying to make in the thread you started:

    In your thread, you refer to Rift-S as having "downgrades," and in this thread, inovator is saying that he doesn't consider Index an "upgrade." Two sides of the same coin.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected.

    While the "try before you formulate an opinion" argument has some merit, it does get over-used as an auto-win button. I remember when the Vive Pro was all the rage and anyone who hadn't tried it apparently just didn't understand. But I had my suspicions that it wasn't the magical unicorn helmet that people across the Internet were selling it as.

    And then I did try it... only to become highly disappointed with the over-hype. In some ways the visuals were a slight step up from the Rift CV1, but in other ways it was a step down. And after trying it, all the months of online debate felt silly. The Vive Pro was not a product that was going to stand the test of time, it was just the "flavor of the week."

    And we can see the truth of that now, as Vive Pro praises are long gone. Those praises were replaced by the Pimax 8K which ended up becoming obsolete mighty fast! I mean gosh... the Pimax 8K was supposed to be the Killer HMD to destroy everyone: Microsoft WMR, Oculus Rift, HTC Vive. And now it is selling in droves on E-Bay for $600 or less!

    When it comes to Valve Index, it seems to be a touchy subject on this Oculus Forum. I agree with everything you said, and I personally feel that the Index is just another "flavor of the week." Nearly every video review I've seen of the Index talks about both its pro's and con's, including the defective controllers. And nothing particularly stands out as "next gen" for the Index. But criticizing the Index is treated on par with unleashing Godzilla on nearby Tokyo.
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  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,200
    Wintermute
    edited September 4
    I don't have a problem with any company releasing a new VR headset, the more the better for competition.

    I've not yet bought the Valve Index but I am still keen to buy it at some point but I've put my purchase on hold for the moment.

    I think some of their features are 2nd gen but not the entire headset. The refresh rate, optics, resolutions, fov and controllers all seem good to me. Not to mention their tracking which I'm guessing has to be hands down better then Rift S. I'm not sure if it's better then CV1 tracking through because CV1 was perfection for me but I'll wait until I try it myself to give an opinion.

    I don't think anyone should be jealous. Jealousy is a bad thing in my opinion anyways. I've never been jealous of anyone that owns a better PC or better car then me etc. I don't think that's how people should live their lives. It serves no purpose!

    Just enjoy what you've got and work hard to get what you want.
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
    Project 2501
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews that it has been very rare when i bought a product that hasn't worked as expected.

    While the "try before you formulate an opinion" argument has some merit, it does get over-used as an auto-win button. I remember when the Vive Pro was all the rage and anyone who hadn't tried it apparently just didn't understand. But I had my suspicions that it wasn't the magical unicorn helmet that people across the Internet were selling it as.

    And then I did try it... only to become highly disappointed with the over-hype. In some ways the visuals were a slight step up from the Rift CV1, but in other ways it was a step down. And after trying it, all the months of online debate felt silly. The Vive Pro was not a product that was going to stand the test of time, it was just the "flavor of the week."

    And we can see the truth of that now, as Vive Pro praises are long gone. Those praises were replaced by the Pimax 8K which ended up becoming obsolete mighty fast! I mean gosh... the Pimax 8K was supposed to be the Killer HMD to destroy everyone: Microsoft WMR, Oculus Rift, HTC Vive. And now it is selling in droves on E-Bay for $600 or less!

    When it comes to Valve Index, it seems to be a touchy subject on this Oculus Forum. I agree with everything you said, and I personally feel that the Index is just another "flavor of the week." Nearly every video review I've seen of the Index talks about both its pro's and con's, including the defective controllers. And nothing particularly stands out as "next gen" for the Index. But criticizing the Index is treated on par with unleashing Godzilla on nearby Tokyo.
    flavor of the week. I wish I thought of that!

    Skscotchegg said:

    I don't think anyone should be jealous. Jealousy is a bad thing in my opinion anyways. I've never been jealous of anyone that owns a better PC or better car then me etc. I don't think that's how people should live their lives. It serves no purpose!

    Their are two kinds of jealousy 1st type you have disdain for  someone or something that someone has or something you can't have. And 2nd type is constructive jealousy. You are envious of something but hope things improve to help you obtain what your jealous about in the future. Example I was in real estate sales before I retired and I was jealous of the people that were successful. But it was constructive jealousy I didn't dislike successful people. I was young and said I'll work hard to be more like them. Some of them even advised me.that led to my success. Anyway I got a bot off point a bit. In this case I was jealous of the product until it turned out not to be what I thought and hoped it would be not of the people that were going to buy it.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,200
    Wintermute
    edited September 4
    inovator said:
    flavor of the week. I wish I thought of that!

    Skscotchegg said:

    I don't think anyone should be jealous. Jealousy is a bad thing in my opinion anyways. I've never been jealous of anyone that owns a better PC or better car then me etc. I don't think that's how people should live their lives. It serves no purpose!

    Their are two kinds of jealousy 1st type you have disdain for  someone or something that someone has or something you can't have. And 2nd type is constructive jealousy. You are envious of something but hope things improve to help you obtain what your jealous about in the future. Example I was in real estate sales before I retired and I was jealous of the people that were successful. But it was constructive jealousy I didn't dislike successful people. I was young and said I'll work hard to be more like them. Some of them even advised me.that led to my success. Anyway I got a bot off point a bit. In this case I was jealous of the product until it turned out not to be what I thought and hoped it would be not of the people that were going to buy it.
    I get what your saying mate.

    Actually, I am jealous that some members on these forums already got to play Stormland! lol. I can't wait to get my hands on that game. 

    And I also can't wait to go back to full room scale tracking with constellation and/or lighthouse.
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
    Project 2501
    Skscotchegg said:
    Actually, I am jealous that some members on these forums already got to play Stormland! lol. I can't wait to get my hands on that game. 

    Me too
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,627 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    But criticizing the Index is treated on par with unleashing Godzilla on nearby Tokyo. 
    Pfft Godzilla is so last week Its Kaiju attacking Mt Fuji now.
    Godzilla stays in America or Atlantis now.
    WAAAGH!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    I'm not jealous of anything or anyone. Why not? Because I'm far superior to everyone else. So there.

    I was disappointed with the Index, not a big enough leap for the ridiculous price they're asking for the thing. The fact that you can buy a Rift S and a Quest and still have 200 dollars/130 quid left over for buying games makes buying an Index a REALLY bad idea before you even start to think about the dodgy controllers.

    If it was 700 quid/dollars I would have bought one but at the price it's at Valve can fuck right off.

    What's even WORSE is the blatant price gouging and the fact that NOBODY has a problem with it. If Oculus had done the same thing people would be having nervous breakdowns over it.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 512
    Trinity
    sounds a bit dodgy when its not that far off from a 500 canadian rift s and its going for 2000 canadian. thats a 1500 dollar inflation for not very much more.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 4
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh. Do you want people to argue why they purchased a Valve index and enjoy it or something?
    In all fairness, his point isn't very different than the point you were trying to make in the thread you started:

    In your thread, you refer to Rift-S as having "downgrades," and in this thread, inovator is saying that he doesn't consider Index an "upgrade." Two sides of the same coin.

    The question I was asking in my thread was why one of the larger companies had not gone for higher resolution screens in their headsets. It was a simple question, but the thread got derailed a few times, which lead me to answering other questions. This thread starts of saying that Vavle index is not Gen 2, so it didn't really ask a question, which is a bit different to the thread I made.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    The question I was asking in my thread was why one of the larger companies had not gone for higher resolution screens in their headsets. It was a simple question, but the thread got derailed a few times, which lead me to answering other questions. This thread starts of saying that Vavle index is not Gen 2, so it didn't really ask a question, which is a bit different to the thread I made.

    That doesn't take away from the fact that, in your thread, you state that the Rift-S has downgrades and in this thread the OP is saying that the Index isn't much of an upgrade. So you should be able to see the point. Just because you made your statement later on in the thread doesn't make your point any less valid, does it?
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    The question I was asking in my thread was why one of the larger companies had not gone for higher resolution screens in their headsets. It was a simple question, but the thread got derailed a few times, which lead me to answering other questions. This thread starts of saying that Vavle index is not Gen 2, so it didn't really ask a question, which is a bit different to the thread I made.

    That doesn't take away from the fact that, in your thread, you state that the Rift-S has downgrades and in this thread the OP is saying that the Index isn't much of an upgrade. So you should be able to see the point. Just because you made your statement later on in the thread doesn't make your point any less valid, does it?
    Valve hasn't advertised the Valve index as being a Gen 2 VR headset though, so I'm not sure were the OP got the idea from.
    Yes I said I thought Rift S was a downgrade after my initial question, but that doesn't make it a similar post to this one. Where have Valve said they have made a Gen 2 headset or advertised it as Gen 2.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    I'll agree, I said Rift S was a downgrade to CV1, if I didn't think was then I would update to it in an instant considering most of my games are purchased on the Oculus Store.
    Vavle hasn't advertised the Valve index as being a Gen 2 VR headset though, so I'm not sure were the OP got the idea from.


    Oculus never advertised that the Rift-S was a downgrade to the CV1, so I'm not sure where you are drawing that comparison from.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Oculus never advertised that the Rift-S was a downgrade to the CV1, so I'm not sure where you are drawing that comparison from.
    Sorry, I edited my post before you responded above. The OP say's Valve index isn't Gen 2, but I'm saying Valve didn't say or advertise it as Gen 2. I know Oculus didn't advertise Rift S as downgrade, I never said they did. I'm saying Rift S is a downgrade based on the fact I've tried Rift S and Oculus CV1 myself.
  • parsecnparsecn Posts: 38
    Brain Burst
    inovator said:
    Some will say but you didn't try the index. That's true but I'm so thorough in studying reviews

     And I'm very happy with the s tracking.

    This is perception. You can be the most thorough person on planet Earth at studying reviews and this still doesn't change that you've never tried the product for yourself.

    The thread can also, effectively, be reduced to reviews (of the Index) vs. hands-on ownership and use of a completely differing product. 

    In the same vein I could purchase an Index and then create a thread which reads, "Why I'm no longer jealous of the Rift-S. And why the Rift-S really isn't 2nd gen." And then list examples of why I'm super bummed about Rift-S while, mind you, I've never even touched a Rift-S. Never seen one but I'm basing my opinion on, "thoroughly studied reviews."

    I can appreciate your sentiment in Index not being the next big HMD which drives VR 3 steps forward (we all want this) but your thread can be taken for what is: a guy comparing a reviewed product to something which he owns. 

    Not a lot there. 


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    RedRizla said:
    The OP say's Valve index isn't Gen 2, but I'm saying Valve didn't say or advertise it as Gen 2. I know Oculus didn't advertise Rift S as downgrade, I never said they did.
    You and I are having this discussion because you said this:
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh.

    And I clarified that you should understand the point, because it is a similar point that you made:
    In your thread, you refer to Rift-S as having "downgrades," and in this thread, inovator is saying that he doesn't consider Index an "upgrade." Two sides of the same coin.

    I could easily use your own words to counter your assertion that the Rift-S is a downgrade by saying this:
    Some people are very happy upgrading from the Rift CV1 to the Rift-S, so I'm not sure what your point is tbh.

    We really wrapped up this conversation early on, since I feel that we easily clear up the OP's point using a similar point that you made in a different thread. Now for some reason, you decided to bring up the fact that Valve didn't advertise Index as Gen 2, which is irrelevant because the OP can still hold his position based on his perception of the Index as a next gen device. Similar to the fact that Oculus did not advertise the Rift-S as a downgrade, but you can still hold your perception that it is a downgrade.

    Lastly, the OP's perception isn't entirely off-base considering that some people have advertised Index as nex gen, for example:

    But we shouldn't have to debate over "next gen" or "upgrade/downgrade" advertising, because that is a distraction from the original issue you brought up. And that issue is... you questioned the OP's point. And we can clearly see that the OP's point is very similar to a point you made. So continuing to debate the issue seems rather futile.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    parsecn said:
    This is perception. You can be the most thorough person on planet Earth at studying reviews and this still doesn't change that you've never tried the product for yourself.

    It's not just perception, it's also: Experience and Wisdom.
    You don't have to drive your car off of a cliff to try for yourself that it's probably a bad idea.
    Many people have witnessed the "flavor of the week" HMD's, like the Vive Pro and Pimax 8K. I think many people can agree that at this stage, we don't have to keep spending large amounts of money on all the over-hyped HMD's just to formulate an opinion. Especially considering that most of the hype about these products happen before anyone tries them anyway. The Pimax 8K and Valve Knuckles were literally hyped for over a year - with strong opinions - before anyone ever had a chance to try them first-hand.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    The OP say's Valve index isn't Gen 2, but I'm saying Valve didn't say or advertise it as Gen 2. I know Oculus didn't advertise Rift S as downgrade, I never said they did.
    You and I are having this discussion because you said this:
    Some people are very happy with their Valve indexes and I'm not sure what your point is tbh.


    Sorry, I changed the topic, but I'm not the first person to do this, it's a fairly common occurrence on these forums from what I've seen. I do see the point you are making though.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    I doubt the OP minds too much lol

    A few more items about the "next gen" thought process surrounding the Index before and after its release:

    We can compare that to how Facebook and Oculus actually advertised the Rift-S, where they used very key phrases such as:
    • The Rift-S is a "refresh" of the Rift product
    • The Rift-S has "trade-offs"
    I actually agree that the Rift-S is a "downgrade" in some respects. The overall stability and lack of integrated audio are prime examples. But it is also an upgrade in other respects. Including the visuals and benefits of inside-out tracking.

    Overall, I think one can make a strong case that the Rift-S is a downgrade from the Rift CV1 in its current form when we look at everything as a whole instead of dividing up all of its individual features. Although, I have also seen many people on Facebook who swear that going from Rift CV1 to Rift-S was an upgrade. So wtf? lol

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    @Zenbane - I have to except that everyone thinks differently when it comes to VR and I think it depends on what you are looking for in a VR Headset. While some will see Oculus Rift S as an upgrade due to inside out tracking being more convenient, there's others like myself who will see it as a downgrade. I think you have to actually try these headsets for yourself before you know for sure which one suits your needs.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
    Project 2501
    For me the only downgrade on the rift s is the audio (an important feature though. I go in and out of vr st times to cheat looking at YouTube to get by areas in some games. A royal pain with the earbuds I use. I just ordered the psvr mantis that should resolve that issue for me.. I hope at oc a fantastic audio solution will be announced.
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 344
    Trinity
    OP hasn't even TRIED the index??! holy shit, nice thread TS, well done! Me personally? I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.  Especially a HMD when there are so many variables to take under consideration. (head size, IPD, computer hardware etc..) You can only hypothesis based on the collective reviewers feedback. (most of those fruit pie dickweeds only care about youtube hits) 

    For me, it checks the boxes off on many items on my personal wishlist, the ingenious removable magnetic face gaskets alone have me excited, I have 2 spares so I don't have to share someones infected vile face oil garbage can mix.

    I've heard so much about these controller issues, I want to state for what its worth, they function absolutely perfectly for me. I don't know if I got lucky, or whatever.. but for me its a none issue. Only thing I could complain about (for me personally) is the analog placement of the thumb stick.. other then that, the knuckles are 100% amazing.

    Zero regrets buying it. lots of you believe the price tag is to high, but I consider it very fair.

    -Unmatched build quality coupled with the material used and design (face gaskets, IPD adjustment, quick and easy mounting on head and the overall HMD looks good)  - Anyone who owns one can tell you its built like a tank
    -Sound - debatable, However top tier for sure!
    -Clear visuals - debatable, However clearest I've personally seen. (I haven' seen them all so I yield)
    -Comfort - debatable (everyone's head and IPD is different)
    -Controllers - Best in class
    -Tracking - Best in class (imo the paramount feature, tracking not perfect whole exp takes a flying shit.)
    -Refresh rate - Best in class

    All in one package.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,041 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    Evileyes said:
    OP hasn't even TRIED the index??! holy shit, nice thread TS, well done! Me personally? I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.  Especially a HMD when there are so many variables to take under consideration. (head size, IPD, computer hardware etc..) You can only hypothesis based on the collective reviewers feedback. (most of those fruit pie dickweeds only care about youtube hits) 

    For me, it checks the boxes off on many items on my personal wishlist, the ingenious removable magnetic face gaskets alone have me excited, I have 2 spares so I don't have to share someones infected vile face oil garbage can mix.

    I've heard so much about these controller issues, I want to state for what its worth, they function absolutely perfectly for me. I don't know if I got lucky, or whatever.. but for me its a none issue. Only thing I could complain about (for me personally) is the analog placement of the thumb stick.. other then that, the knuckles are 100% amazing.

    Zero regrets buying it. lots of you believe the price tag is to high, but I consider it very fair.

    -Unmatched build quality coupled with the material used and design (face gaskets, IPD adjustment, quick and easy mounting on head and the overall HMD looks good)  - Anyone who owns one can tell you its built like a tank
    -Sound - debatable, However top tier for sure!
    -Clear visuals - debatable, However clearest I've personally seen. (I haven' seen them all so I yield)
    -Comfort - debatable (everyone's head and IPD is different)
    -Controllers - Best in class
    -Tracking - Best in class (imo the paramount feature, tracking not perfect whole exp takes a flying shit.)
    -Refresh rate - Best in class

    All in one package.
    Fully agree - Index is totally Gen 2 in my book, it's got the fov, the res (especially with high ss), the refresh rates and the most awesome pressure-sensitive controllers - and perfect tracking, and the sound is second to none - but maybe hard to understand before you've really tried the Index. 
    And Reverb has a Gen 3 display ;)
    Of course we could call Index Gen 1 - but that would make the CV1 Gen 0.5, lol. 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @Zenbane - I have to except that everyone thinks differently when it comes to VR and I think it depends on what you are looking for in a VR Headset. While some will see Oculus Rift S as an upgrade due to inside out tracking being more convenient, there's others like myself who will see it as a downgrade.

    I wore the Rift-S briefly, and I did like the comfort. But I won't be buying it to try it fully until it gets more stable.


    I think you have to actually try these headsets for yourself before you know for sure which one suits your needs.

    Agreed to some extent, but as I said, not only does this whole "try it for yourself" tagline get over-used, it also doesn't seem to apply to those who champion products for years before the product is even released.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,376 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    Evileyes said:
    OP hasn't even TRIED the index??! holy shit, nice thread TS, well done! Me personally? I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.

    I'm not too sure about that, my friend! With all due respect, you championed the Vive in the same way you are championing the Index, and you did pass judgement on Touch before you tried it:
    Vive controllers, are magnificent. a PERFECT angle for guns or stick weapons. Solidly built, and just screams quality. The internal rechargeable battery lasts a LONG time. The touch thumb pads are precise and perfectly responsive. So very much impressed. And when you see them in VR, that is exactly where they are IRL. Everyone who tried my Vive mentioned, how EXACT they were. Its not some glorified Wii controller, this is a new level of precise. I am so impressed by this controller, I honestly do not think the Oculus touch will come close to it. (hope I'm dead wrong) I could go on and on, about how the Vive is perfect and well rounded for all applications, but I wont. You have to use it, to know what I mean. There is no other way to explain it.
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/35944/got-my-vive-delivered-this-weekend/p1

    I recall you stating not too long ago that you never tried the Oculus Touch; unless I am remembering that incorrectly.
    My only point here is that just about everyone on this forum has formulated an opinion without ever trying or owning the product. And it seems that only with the Valve Index are people suddenly expected to refrain from sharing an opinion unless they own it. This sentiment is getting a bit absurd, imo. Especially seeing as to how even an Index owner who has a negative view of the product will be told, "well you didn't try it long enough."
    So not only do you have to buy it and try it first, but you have to try it for a long long time too!
    To me, this is the kind of dialogue that is usually applied to a product that is very much over-hyped.
    "Don't like it? Try it. Still don't like it? Try it more."

    Imagine if you wanted to by a car, but half the people driving it online said that the steering wheel doesn't always work. Would you still buy it? Next, you go online and say, "I don't think I want to buy it after all, doesn't seem that great," only to have certain people say, "pffft, you haven't even driven it? You know nothing." Would you buy it then?
    So then you go out and test drive it, and go online to share your opinion that... the car is definitely not for you. But then someone says, "Well how long did you drive it? Just a little while? pffft, you have to drive it for many long hours. You know nothing." Would you buy it then?

    This is what the Valve Index marketing campaign really looks like as far as I can tell lol

    Also, I don't think that the OP is necessarily "judging" the Valve Index, so much as stating his opinion on how his perception about Index has evolved based on what people have been trying to market it as (e.g. Next Gen). And I think that is perfectly valid. Just as your opinion about Oculus hardware products is valid without you ever actually owning one!
    :)
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,942
    Project 2501
    Zenbane said:
    Evileyes said:
    OP hasn't even TRIED the index??! holy shit, nice thread TS, well done! Me personally? I wouldn't pass judgment on anything I haven't tried or thoroughly tested myself.

    I'm not too sure about that, my friend! With all due respect, you championed the Vive in the same way you are championing the Index, and you did pass judgement on Touch before you tried it:
    Vive controllers, are magnificent. a PERFECT angle for guns or stick weapons. Solidly built, and just screams quality. The internal rechargeable battery lasts a LONG time. The touch thumb pads are precise and perfectly responsive. So very much impressed. And when you see them in VR, that is exactly where they are IRL. Everyone who tried my Vive mentioned, how EXACT they were. Its not some glorified Wii controller, this is a new level of precise. I am so impressed by this controller, I honestly do not think the Oculus touch will come close to it. (hope I'm dead wrong) I could go on and on, about how the Vive is perfect and well rounded for all applications, but I wont. You have to use it, to know what I mean. There is no other way to explain it.
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/35944/got-my-vive-delivered-this-weekend/p1

    I recall you stating not too long ago that you never tried the Oculus Touch; unless I am remembering that incorrectly.
    My only point here is that just about everyone on this forum has formulated an opinion without ever trying or owning the product. And it seems that only with the Valve Index are people suddenly expected to refrain from sharing an opinion unless they own it. This sentiment is getting a bit absurd, imo. Especially seeing as to how even an Index owner who has a negative view of the product will be told, "well you didn't try it long enough."
    So not only do you have to buy it and try it first, but you have to try it for a long long time too!
    To me, this is the kind of dialogue that is usually applied to a product that is very much over-hyped.
    "Don't like it? Try it. Still don't like it? Try it more."

    Imagine if you wanted to by a car, but half the people driving it online said that the steering wheel doesn't always work. Would you still buy it? Next, you go online and say, "I don't think I want to buy it after all, doesn't seem that great," only to have certain people say, "pffft, you haven't even driven it? You know nothing." Would you buy it then?
    So then you go out and test drive it, and go online to share your opinion that... the car is definitely not for you. But then someone says, "Well how long did you drive it? Just a little while? pffft, you have to drive it for many long hours. You know nothing." Would you buy it then?

    This is what the Valve Index marketing campaign really looks like as far as I can tell lol

    Also, I don't think that the OP is necessarily "judging" the Valve Index, so much as stating his opinion on how his perception about Index has evolved based on what people have been trying to market it as (e.g. Next Gen). And I think that is perfectly valid. Just as your opinion about Oculus hardware products is valid without you ever actually owning one!
    :)
    Your a better man than I. I wouldn't try to argue with obvious fan boys who call the index next gen and say the defective controllers are perfect. Don't waste your time with them.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    edited September 5
    Did you miss the thread that talks about Oculus controllers having lagg problems? I see Valve index controllers working for some just like I see the Oculus controllers work for some, but not all to be fair.
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 344
    Trinity
    Yes, I stand by my review of the Vive as of May 2016. I was happy to have my "hands" in VR.

    And yes, I stated I never tried the CV1 controllers, however I have no doubt based on the feedback of the users here, (including yourself) that I actually know to some degree. Its universally known, as good shit!

    I see what you're saying about how long one must own it.. However, if you plug something in and instantly dissatisfied, its not really a fair shot, we all know VR requires some tinkering :)

    In the end, to each his own. If you dont think a HMD VR demo is warranted to make a proper assessment, fine. 

    But look at it this way, would you honestly pull up a youtube review, to a reviewer who hasn't actually used the product?
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