Growing Vote for Rift-S Enhancement! — Oculus
New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

Growing Vote for Rift-S Enhancement!

kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
I am interested on how many are following this on Oculus UserVoice:



Surprised this has not been discussed on this part of the forum before - fascinating to read some of the comments and suggestions being reached on UserVoice - lets hope that the company is listening to this passionate aspect of their customer base.
P6ftmuw.jpg
** New Book **
"The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959

Comments

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,027 Volunteer Moderator

    This comes up fairly regularly on the forum starting with a post that was leading up to the launch of the S and gets mentioned in several threads since.

    I'd be interested to know how many people want this feature that haven't used the S. I notice several comments here and on a duplicate uservoice vote to the one you posted, sentiments like 'I won't be upgrading until this is implemented'.

    I'd also note that when I took the time to put together a video demonstrating occlusion of the S controller tracking (or lack there of) and tracking accuracy and performance in general, in a thread that was very active... my vid achieved precisely 4 views with one of those being mine.

    Passionate is great and I value views from people who've used the S and describe a problem with it... or are happy with it. But I also tend to quantify the passion with a measure of what experience of a problem the poster has.

    Intel 5820K OC@4Ghz, Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.239)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    All very good points @DaftnDirect we always need to measure views - especially from the more passionate.
    I wonder if it was really a lost opportunity to marry the old with the new when releasing the Lenovo Rift-S - keeping some elements of the CV1 community as well as embracing much of the WinMR community for their design?
    I also worry for the same situation with the coming HTC Cosmo, where the "baby gets thrown out with the bath water", and we see a total departure from what has been happening in the past three years - the aspiration for the Cosmos to also support Lighthouse looks a dead-duck - for funny enough the same reasons why I think those wanting a Rift-S to support Constellation would find.

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,979 Valuable Player
    edited September 9
    I must admit when S 1st launched i was adamant that i would not want to go inside out tracking if that was as good as it got.
    since then however to be fair, it seems the tracking has been improved significantly.
    I am still concerned but i think for better or for worse inside out is the future.   There are still a bunch of problems which mean the RiftS is likely not a good fit for me (IPD of 69 with 1 eye slightly wider than the other) but I think we will just have to hope on future headsets perfecting inside out rather than banking on a return to constellation.

    whether Lighthouse will remain in the same form as it is now, i am unsure, but that is slightly less a PITA than constellation imo when it comes to PC issues..
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,027 Volunteer Moderator

    Totally agree about the IPD, next Rift needs to go manual and have the same range as CV1 to avoid excluding anyone.

    Decent headphones too but I'm still hoping those will come to the S.

    Intel 5820K OC@4Ghz, Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.239)
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,979 Valuable Player
    edited September 9
    RiftX

    manual ipd with twin screens.
    combined resolution somewhere around the Reverb
    slight bump to the FOV (ideally to 130/140
    sound quality somewhere around the CV1 level (or better but i am fine with CV1)

    and possible pie in the sky - 1 inside out sensor in each of the touch controllers - as well the tracking tied to the headset.  (I would be happy to have the weight increased a little to take a 2nd AA battery to power this. *If OCulus could nail that extra tracking in the controllers i think they would have "solved" the problem of inside out tracking and it would be objectively better than outside in then in almost every scenario*

    not sure if the above is feasible but if oculus could do that i would happily kick over £700 or there about for such a headset.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,958 Valuable Player
    @bigmike20vt ; - you forgot one:
    "Change controller material back to indestructanium instead of spray painted crackers"
    Asus Z370-A ||  Watercooled 8700K || 16 GB gSkill DDR4 3200 || Samsung SSD 840PRO 256GB+850PRO 256GB+850EVO 500GB+970EVO 1TB || Watercooled FE Geforce 1080ti || Zalman Reserator XT watercooler || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3 || Asus ROG PG279Q  G-sync monitor
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    edited September 9
    RiftX
    ......
    not sure if the above is feasible but if oculus could do that i would happily kick over £700 or there about for such a headset.

    I am sorry @bigmike20vt but I doubt that we would see that in the near term. You seem to have touched on what HTC are attempting with the Cosmos, and we are not sure that will sell in quantity. OculusVR are clearly focused on Standalone, though still supporting PC though a partnership with Lenovo that allows a second party to to the heavy lifting in support (a factor why the cable issue is being closed down along with the discontinuing of CV1). 

    It would take some serious developments in Rift-S sales to see a increased investment in PC, away from the aspirations of the Facebook management to achieve the "mainstream adoption" needed to meet any of their goals. But in the long-term I would not be surprised in Phase six of VR adoption (say 2022) for a new PC system from the company as a new Gold standard.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,551 Valuable Player
    @kevinw729 - Not sure where you were hiding at the time, but it's one of the first things people talked about after they received their Rift S. I'm not particularly bothered about inside out tracking if it is good enough, but I would like to see an Oculus Quest that is both mobile and can also be hooked up to a Pc. That would do away withing having to spend money on two VR headsets and make it easier for Oculus to cater for PC -VR while also going the mobile VR route.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    I must have been travelling @RedRizla

    I did hear about all the issues, the flashing screens, the lack of IPD, the original tracking issues (that were fixed) and the audio. Its just that the level of comments on the UsersVoice was a surprise I had not seen mentioned here.

    I also have to say how surprised I was by how quickly the discontinuance of the cable turned into "CableGate" on the forums. Lets see if OC6 can placate the revolting masses!  

    Yeah, I heard your previous comment about the Quest+ idea, with a link (hopefully USB-C) too a PC as well as being a standalone. Its a strong idea, and I think HTC may have heard you as its being suggested the Cosmos could do that!

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,979 Valuable Player
    Cosmos does look good.... and if there is a solid version of ReVive for it i may consider one.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    Cosmos does look good.... and if there is a solid version of ReVive for it i may consider one.

    I really wonder why HTC are playing so coy with the information about this, especially with the rumored September announcement / release, if they are looking at this as a spoiler against OC6?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,852 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @kevinw729 - Not sure where you were hiding at the time, but it's one of the first things people talked about after they received their Rift S. I'm not particularly bothered about inside out tracking if it is good enough, but I would like to see an Oculus Quest that is both mobile and can also be hooked up to a Pc. That would do away withing having to spend money on two VR headsets and make it easier for Oculus to cater for PC -VR while also going the mobile VR route.

    I think it's very apparent that they will abandon the PCVR before too long.  Carmacks plan doesn't even include PCVR, it's all about mobile.  I'm glad I buy all my software on Steam, but this still stinks.  None of the competitors have controllers that are worth a shit in comparison to the touch controllers. 

    People are still complaining about Rift S tracking, or that post wouldn't be on Oculus Uservoice.
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,241
    Wintermute
    I'm pretty sure that Oculus is unlikely to ever abandon PCVR.  I would guess that their next logical step will be to develop a Quest 2 with stronger mobile processors together with the ability to also run in PCVR mode with a Rift S cable (or maybe even wireless?).

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors.

  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    edited September 9
    Yeah now that Oculus has really improved the tracking for the Rift S, I see no need (at least for how I use it) to use the external sensors again. I like the simplicity of the setup without them.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case|
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,680 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:
    I must have been travelling @RedRizla

    I did hear about all the issues, the flashing screens, the lack of IPD, the original tracking issues (that were fixed) and the audio. Its just that the level of comments on the UsersVoice was a surprise I had not seen mentioned here.

    I also have to say how surprised I was by how quickly the discontinuance of the cable turned into "CableGate" on the forums. Lets see if OC6 can placate the revolting masses! 
    This UserVoice proposal is from May 22, when the tracking was a legitimate issue. It was discussed at great length here on the forum at that time as well. Since then, the tracking has been greatly improved, to the point that needing external cameras to supplement it is a non-issue.

    I recall that someone asked Carmack on Twitter whether Constellation support was going to happen, and his reply was that he would much rather put the effort into improving Insight tracking. That makes sense given their desire to replace Constellation with Insight going forward (and the fact that the tech is shared across two of their product categories), and they seem to have accomplished the necessary improvements to justify their stance.

    Incidentally, "CableGate" is now high on the request list (305 votes), for good reason. When Rift S released, they assured CV1 owners that their hardware would continue to be supported. I think the comment was made specifically regarding old Touch controllers, but it's not unreasonable to expect spare parts and accessories to continue to be available on the store for a few years.
    OculusVR are clearly focused on Standalone, though still supporting PC though a partnership with Lenovo that allows a second party to to the heavy lifting in support (a factor why the cable issue is being closed down along with the discontinuing of CV1).
    This sounds like baseless speculation, unless you have some inside information to share. Maintaining a supply of spare parts for the old version is a separate issue from building the new model with a new manufacturing partner. From what I've read, the cable unavailability is a component shortage problem (discontinued proprietary connector), but we'll see what happens over the next while.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
    Corsair Hydro H100i | Samsung SSDs: 860 Evo 1 TB, 850 Evo 1 TB, 840 Evo 1 TB | Seagate BarraCuda HDD 3 TB
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    As always thanks for the clarifications and observations @nalex66 .

    I agree that the first part of the UsersVoics seemed to be pre-tracking update - as I mentioned above, the great job Carmack did on that.  But then you notice a lot of movement after August as if there is still some interest.

    But you are right the main ire is surrounding "CableGate" - and that 305 numbers is going to rise. You hit the nail on the head regarding the promise to support the CV1 even after the discontinuation - so this issue seems to backfire even harder. 

    Its hard to gain a clear optic from OculusVR as you know better than me. And to be frank if I have inside sources I would not burn them just for clarification on a forum. But this is no "baseless", but based on observations - I think we all knew this is a "shortage" issue, (we have been here before at the beginning of the CV1 launch).  Its more like those that kept their eye on this particular ball are no longer there. Reminds me after the last round of layoffs we had that fantastic "bricking" of headsets over the non-updated MS license!

    They may not have walked away from PCVR, but a lot of this is now in the hands of Lenovo - remember who's logo is also on the units!



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • saami81saami81 Posts: 144
    Art3mis
    CV1 tracking  was/is worse than what S tracking is today. I owned 2(two) CV1 headsets and used them with 2 to 4 sensors. There were those constant tracking problems where my whole tracking went crazy for fraction of second. Throwing my view to several centimeters offside and then snapping back. That made playing games like Beat saber very annoying. If they could fix that then this would make sense, but why to change for worse as it is now? Rift S tracking is just more relialable, unless you keep your hands behind your back.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,680 Volunteer Moderator
    Looking at the comments for the proposal, four people have commented in support of it in the past month, and at least one of them admits to not owning a Rift S. I don't know how the voting has trended (recent vs early on), but I suppose there must have been some recent activity to put the proposal on the "Hot" list. Regardless, this seems to be more a case of a vocal minority than a groundswell of support for external tracking.

    I can say, based on my experience with Quest, that I personally have had no tracking issues and I believe that Insight tracking is the way forward--I believe that less dependence on external hardware makes for a better all-around solution.

    There was a certain amount of resistance to external tracking when it was added back in the DK2 days, but it was necessary for a while, both to get 6dof working for the headset, as well as for getting tracked controllers into the mix. Now that they've managed to solve the issues with an internal solution, I can understand their desire to move away from using additional external devices.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
    Corsair Hydro H100i | Samsung SSDs: 860 Evo 1 TB, 850 Evo 1 TB, 840 Evo 1 TB | Seagate BarraCuda HDD 3 TB
  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 422
    Trinity
    edited September 9
    They may not have walked away from PCVR, but a lot of this is now in the hands of Lenovo - remember who's logo is also on the units!

    And here's the Xiaomi GO! (which I haven't heard anyone claim Xiaomi is and was the lead on the GO project.).  You'll see the attached FCC identification info that shows it's registered as a Facebook product.


    Having their branding on the headset isn't a sign of Lenovo being the executor of the project or having the lead on the future of the Rift. If anything we know Lenovo is the manufacturer (Oculus has always used contracted manufacturers), and Lenovo had design input on the headset (check out the Nate Mitchell and Jason Rubin GDC 2019 interviews with Tested and RoadtoVR; see below links).
    I'd argue Lenovo's input was mainly on the Halo, considering Lenovo has a license agreement with SONY to use their PSVR halo on their branded headsets [perhaps this is why the Lenovo branding was required?]) https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/release/2018/181031.html
    Here's the attached GDC interviews:
    https://www.roadtovr.com/facebook-jason-rubin-oculus-interview-gdc-2019/



    If you talk to anyone that owns a GO and Rift S, they should admit the actual HMD of the Rift S is essentially a derivative design of the Oculus GO but with 6dof cameras (the Rift S and GO share the same display and same lenses).  The 2 look very similar. Quest and Rift S share the same controllers, so another decision not made by Lenovo. (anyone know who manufactures the controllers? Is it Goertek ?).
    See below for my Rift S vs GO pic comparisons.

    So Maybe we can go with:
    Oculus designed the HMD, tracking, controllers, optics. Lenovo designed the Halo, comfort, and are providing the manufacturing.

    So what's my point?  Oculus is still in charge of the design and direction of the Rift.  Oculus is providing all the post launch support with patch updates and hardware warranty support. The Rift S is registered with the FCC has a Facebook product (no mention of Lenovo, see below pic). The software includes the tracking improvements we saw with 1.39, and the numerous firmware updates provided by Oculus (I have yet to download anything from Lenovo's website).

    ==========================================================

    Back to the point of the post, I believe it was Carmack that tweeted out it would be easier to improve Inside Out tracking than to include the old external constellation sensor with with Rift S. [found the tweet:

    And we saw this with the 1.39 tracking update.  Here's a blog writeup by the Oculus Insight team.  You won't find any reference of Lenovo having input on the tracking software: https://ai.facebook.com/blog/powered-by-ai-oculus-insight/ (and this is posted on the Facebook proper site).  So I'm not sure why you keep beating the drums that Lenovo is the "decider" for the Rift platform.


    ==========================================================

    Pics of the Rift S vs GO:









    Lastly, the FCC Registration of the RiftS:


    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,021 Valuable Player
    It’s nice to dream........
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,618 Valuable Player
    They may not have walked away from PCVR, but a lot of this is now in the hands of Lenovo - remember who's logo is also on the units!

    And here's the Xiaomi GO! (which I haven't heard anyone claim Xiaomi is and was the lead on the GO project.).  

    ......


    Not the best example to prove your point after this announcement!

    >"Xiaomi reportedly disbands Mi VR team..."
    https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/05/xiaomi-reportedly-disbands-mi-vr-team-but-facebook-is-still-backing-oculus-go/

    But no, I think we can agree Lenovo is in a more dominant position that Xiaomi in the direction... unless you have further information?

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 422
    Trinity


    kevinw729 said:
    They may not have walked away from PCVR, but a lot of this is now in the hands of Lenovo - remember who's logo is also on the units!

    And here's the Xiaomi GO! (which I haven't heard anyone claim Xiaomi is and was the lead on the GO project.).  

    ......


    Not the best example to prove your point after this announcement!

    >"Xiaomi reportedly disbands Mi VR team..."
    https://venturebeat.com/2019/08/05/xiaomi-reportedly-disbands-mi-vr-team-but-facebook-is-still-backing-oculus-go/

    But no, I think we can agree Lenovo is in a more dominant position that Xiaomi in the direction... unless you have further information?

    And Oculus still holds the cards for the GO. Oculus holds the cards for the Rift S - that's my point which still stands.
    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,852 Valuable Player
    saami81 said:
    CV1 tracking  was/is worse than what S tracking is today. I owned 2(two) CV1 headsets and used them with 2 to 4 sensors. There were those constant tracking problems where my whole tracking went crazy for fraction of second. Throwing my view to several centimeters offside and then snapping back. That made playing games like Beat saber very annoying. If they could fix that then this would make sense, but why to change for worse as it is now? Rift S tracking is just more relialable, unless you keep your hands behind your back.
    I guess I just got lucky.  Mine was pretty much plug and play, no shifting view or tracking issues.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,979 Valuable Player
    saami81 said:
    CV1 tracking  was/is worse than what S tracking is today. I owned 2(two) CV1 headsets and used them with 2 to 4 sensors. There were those constant tracking problems where my whole tracking went crazy for fraction of second. Throwing my view to several centimeters offside and then snapping back. That made playing games like Beat saber very annoying. If they could fix that then this would make sense, but why to change for worse as it is now? Rift S tracking is just more relialable, unless you keep your hands behind your back.
    sounds like your CV1 was not tracking properly. I have not had such issues for years.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,041 Valuable Player
    saami81 said:
    CV1 tracking  was/is worse than what S tracking is today. I owned 2(two) CV1 headsets and used them with 2 to 4 sensors. There were those constant tracking problems where my whole tracking went crazy for fraction of second. Throwing my view to several centimeters offside and then snapping back. That made playing games like Beat saber very annoying. If they could fix that then this would make sense, but why to change for worse as it is now? Rift S tracking is just more relialable, unless you keep your hands behind your back.
    sounds like your CV1 was not tracking properly. I have not had such issues for years.
    Same here, nothing but rock solid tracking from CV1 - 3 sensors.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
Sign In or Register to comment.