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HTC VIVE Cosmos has launched - specs, reviews and impressions

RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player
edited September 12 in General
Moved this post from another thread - Cosmos deserves its own thread. And Cosmos is out - I kinda like the music, lol:





$700 (includes free 12-month VIVEPORT Infinity membership,worth $99):
 
https://www.vive.com/us/product/cosmos/

So no phoneVR, but something much better:

Wireless Adapter
Untethered virtual reality is here. Remove cords from the equation. Move freely. Get powerful visual and audio transmission at 60GHz. Featuring Intel® WiGig technology. 
*Sold separately.
Thus untethered is still 90 Hz, but transmission is done at 60 GHz. 

And HTC did what Oculus failed to do - they've added support for external sensors too, this could be the most awesome tracking options ever made - this may also help HTC not getting a lot of criticism in case inside-out isn't working perfectly (like Rift-S in the beginning):

External Tracking Mod
Lighthouse tracking support. Combine the precision of Lighthouse tracking with the flexibility of VIVE Cosmos with this novel mod. Coming soon.
*External Tracking Mod sold separately.
*SteamVR™ compatible base stations and controllers sold separately.
Full specs:



Cosmos places itself between Rift-S and Index, probably a very smart move. You can upgrade the tracking to probably be better than Index, but you won't get the Index fov and refresh rates - and you won't get the Knuckles. 

Regarding the hardware Cosmos looks much better than Rift-S, but it's also nearly twice as expensive. And Oculus has a lot of exclusive content. Tracking and controllers may win greatly compared to Reverb, but of course Reverb still has the better res. 

Cosmos res is 33 % higher than Rift-S. And 6% higher than the Index. 
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"Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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Comments

  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,010 Valuable Player
    Looks to me like the external mod is HMD only.. which is pointless. Inside out works fine for HMD tracking - it's the controllers that could benefit from external sensors.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,066 Valuable Player
    edited September 12
    I suspected the mobile phone integration had been dropped.... not a surprise but a shame but is one of the reasons i was asking if anyone knew more details in my post yesterday... I had an idea the final specs would be different from the ones 1st released.

    I like that you can opt into lighthouse, but at the same time if you do that then you probably may as well just buy an index package and be done with it. (esp as the controllers dont support base station tracking so would need to buy knuckles too)

    For £700 if we get it for that in blighty I will investigate, but it depends how good its stand alone tracking is compared to insight.  For me my interest in cosmos lives or dies based on its inside out tracking and standard included controllers (which look like rifts touch clones but with snazzy lights)

    IF Oculus had released a rift around these specs (resolution / manual ipd adjustment and price i would likely be all over it, but the loss of the oculus infrastructure is a big one. (and i was hoping for a slightly better FOV, tho still a step up from the rift albeit a little one) - of course the maximum is 110, which makes me wonder what the typical one will be.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player


    I like that you can opt into lighthouse, but at the same time if you do that then you probably may as well just buy an index package and be done with it.
    I was thinking that this is an option for those upgrading from older VIVE HMDs - you don't have to throw out your base stations, they can still be of use. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,530 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:

    $700 (includes free 12-month VIVEPORT Infinity membership,worth $99):
    The good news is they actually will sell it to Australians (unlike Valve, who have refused to ever sell any hardware to us). The bad news is they inflated the price. It's $1300au, double the $649au price of the Rift-S / Quest.
    That's $894us.

    Wildt said:
    Looks to me like the external mod is HMD only.. which is pointless. Inside out works fine for HMD tracking - it's the controllers that could benefit from external sensors.
    Yeah, a good idea that's been half-assed by not applying to the parts that need it most.

  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,369
    Project 2501
    edited September 12
    Thanks for starting a new pre-release thread mate!

    I’m very tempted to pre-order one of these.  Especially since I now have an ok (somewhat reluctant) from my wife the banker.  I’m just not sure I want to be an early beta tester or not.  Another thing that worries me is HTC support.  I’ve never heard a lot of good things about it.  But maybe it has improved?

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  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 583
    Trinity
    the same resolution as the index roughly, a bit better. i bet its heavy and the screen color isnt very good like the index isnt. because if its an upgraded index which it sounds like it is i bet the screen is the same as the indexs just newer, and this will make the index outdated by that token.

    if it can connect to the pc then this is the best vr headset for the next 5 years i would think, just too bad the price is so high. 1000 or 1200 Canadian probably? not consumer friendly.

    i bet if oculus copied the cosmos but used a better screen and both inside out and outside in tracking for the controllers they would own the vr market again for a long time if the price is right.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator


    UK price
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 554
    Neo
    Now i like the look of this, i will need to wait for hands on consumer reviews......but i like the look of this indeed. :)
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    1060 minimum isn't too bad either.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 12

    Very promising. I'm with you OmegaM4N , will need a good few trusted reviews before jumping to any conclusions but on paper the specs look reasonable for the price which is something I didn't expect to be saying for a device from HTC.

    Having said that, I'm not in the market to upgrade just yet.

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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,428 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah agree DnD I'm HMD maxed out now and am not in the market but specs do look promising.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player
    Fresh reviews/impressions: 

    "So far, the Vive Cosmos doesn’t feel like a VR revolution. Instead, it’s iterative update to the Vive and Vive Pro. At $699, it’s for enthusiasts only — and probably not worth an upgrade if you were an early adopter of the Vive. For those looking to dive into immersive VR for the first time, though, it’ll be one of the best options available when it goes on sale globally on October 3."
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/vr-headset-reviews/htc-vive-cosmos-review/

    "The real battle will be between the Cosmos and Oculus' Rift S, which is already on sale and is also a tethered headset with inside-out tracking. Its display, though, isn't quite as high-res as HTC's. That said, the Cosmos costs not far off double the price."
    https://www.stuff.tv/htc/vive-cosmos/review


    "HTC did something radical when it designed its newest VR headset for consumers: It listened to its customers. The result is a brand-new standalone headset called the Vive Cosmos. It's basically better in every way than the original Vive that preceded it. The Cosmos is aimed at existing HTC Vive owners and VR enthusiasts who want better comfort, improved visuals and the simplicity of not having to set up those Lighthouse base stations around a room."
    https://www.cnet.com/news/the-htc-vive-cosmos-vr-is-a-polished-overdue-upgrade/

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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,879 Volunteer Moderator
    Huh, this actually looks pretty good. Nothing revolutionary, but a nice set of specs and features. This is what the Rift S should have been, in terms of resolution, audio, and features (IPD adjustment and flip-up visor). Price is a little steep compared to Rift S though. I’m not generally a fan of subscription services, but I guess a free year of Viveport would be a way to try some stuff without buying it. 

    Anyway, I’m not rushing to move away from the Oculus ecosystem, but hopefully this will put some pressure on Oculus to up their game a bit.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,066 Valuable Player
    better in everyway to the vive........................ except for tracking and FOV ;)

    (i am mostly joking i am interested too... though wont be early adopter)
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    Huh, this actually looks pretty good. Nothing revolutionary, but a nice set of specs and features. This is what the Rift S should have been, in terms of resolution, audio, and features (IPD adjustment and flip-up visor). Price is a little steep compared to Rift S though. I’m not generally a fan of subscription services, but I guess a free year of Viveport would be a way to try some stuff without buying it. 

    Anyway, I’m not rushing to move away from the Oculus ecosystem, but hopefully this will put some pressure on Oculus to up their game a bit.
    Fully agree - Cosmos simply looks nice, there's really nothing to point at and criticize. Build-quality - from the looks - seems great. I got the same feeling that this is exactly how the Rift-S should have been - and then no one would mind a better name like Rift 2. It might even have stopped me from getting Index - due to all the exclusive Oculus software content and ASW2.  

    But I don't think Oculus wants to release anything costing more than about $400, they may have burnt their fingers somewhat badly on the Rift, especially wanting to get 1 billion people in VR. I guess neither HTC nor Valve want 1 billion in VR, but they want to secure that those getting into VR have a really great trip ;) 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,879 Volunteer Moderator
    At least for those in the market (and not excited about the compromises of the Rift S or WMR), this looks like a solid all-around choice without going to the extreme of Index. In Canadian dollars, it’s $550 for Rift S, $900-$1000 for Cosmos, or somewhere in the order of $1500 for the Index (if they ever get around to selling it in Canada).

    If I was looking to buy something today, I might lean towards Cosmos over Rift S, despite wanting to stay with Oculus. 
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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,369
    Project 2501
    It will be very interesting to see the Oculus counter punch to the Cosmos.  Maybe some nice surprises coming around OC6?

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,035 Valuable Player
    Own the VR market AGAIN? They've owned it since it started and haven't stopped.

    Whoever came up with the idea of the controllers not working with the headset when using Lighthouse tracking needs to be sacked tomorrow.

    Unless you only play sims motion controls are a key part of VR gaming.

    Now I perfectly understand that there'll be issues with the lights on the things but it can't be complicated to have both lights for the inside out tracking AND light sensors on the controllers. Switch off the lights when using Lighthouse base stations. Boom. Job done.

    So it's too expensive (compared to the Rift S) and you can't track controllers when using Lighthouse base stations.

    If they had this selling for $600 max then it might give the Rift S some competition but I can't see it selling anywhere near as well as the Rift S.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 554
    Neo

    Very promising. I'm with you OmegaM4N , will need a good few trusted reviews before jumping to any conclusions but on paper the specs look reasonable for the price which is something I didn't expect to be saying for a device from HTC.

    Having said that, I'm not in the market to upgrade just yet.

    Well i was happy with the CV1 and was quite happy to keep it for the next few year or two before i looked at the Rift S, but after cablegate for the CV1, and with still no confirmation from Oculus either way, i am now seriously looking into replacing my beloved CV1 and just not take the chance of it becoming a £400 paperweight over the next year due to unforseen cable issues arising, i just feel like i don't want to take the chance at this stage.....plus the Cosmos might even lead to a drop in the Vive bundle, and we have OC6 in a few weeks, so i have a bit of breathing room to see what pans out....but from what i have seen, it does look impressive....this was not even on my radar until now, i thought it was a Quest clone. lol
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 12
    OmegaM4N said:

    Very promising. I'm with you OmegaM4N , will need a good few trusted reviews before jumping to any conclusions but on paper the specs look reasonable for the price which is something I didn't expect to be saying for a device from HTC.

    Having said that, I'm not in the market to upgrade just yet.

    Well i was happy with the CV1 and was quite happy to keep it for the next few year or two before i looked at the Rift S, but after cablegate for the CV1, and with still no confirmation from Oculus either way, i am now seriously looking into replacing my beloved CV1 and just not take the chance of it becoming a £400 paperweight over the next year due to unforseen cable issues arising, i just feel like i don't want to take the chance at this stage.....plus the Cosmos might even lead to a drop in the Vive bundle, and we have OC6 in a few weeks, so i have a bit of breathing room to see what pans out....but from what i have seen, it does look impressive....this was not even on my radar until now, i thought it was a Quest clone. lol

    Cablegate certainly has a lot of people excited in a bad way and I'm not going to get into that... only because it's covered very extensibly elsewhere on the forum.

    I'm glad I upgraded to the S but it's taken a while to come to that conclusion. I was never really worried about inside-out tracking but the lack of headphones was a mistake and I've come to love my 5.1 speakers for VR... all over again. The screen and lenses were a joy from day one and I find the halo super comfortable, especially with my glasses. I feel for anyone with IPDs outside the optimal range though, so Oculus need to sort that out with the next headset.

    Bottom line for me is performance, it's just fps's are great with all my games and apps with the S and my PC, so I'll probably only upgrade to a higher res headset when I upgrade my PC. I think, for me, GPS prices need to drop a tad before that happens.

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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 554
    Neo
    ^^You got a Titan X so i would have thought you would not need to upgrade until say the next millennium. lol

  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,879 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 12
    snowdog said:
    Whoever came up with the idea of the controllers not working with the headset when using Lighthouse tracking needs to be sacked tomorrow.

    Unless you only play sims motion controls are a key part of VR gaming.

    Now I perfectly understand that there'll be issues with the lights on the things but it can't be complicated to have both lights for the inside out tracking AND light sensors on the controllers. Switch off the lights when using Lighthouse base stations. Boom. Job done.
    From looking at their web site, if you install the lighthouse mod, you're giving up on inside-out tracking completely--you replace the faceplate with a Vive face and lose the front* cameras, so you then have to switch to Vive wands or buy Index controllers.

    *Edit: you lose the front top and bottom cameras. Probably passthrough view is retained with the Lighthouse face plate, but it's confirmed that you can't use the Cosmos controllers if you switch.

    I think the whole "convert it to lighthouse" mod idea is a bit flaky--it's like they're saying "We don't have full confidence in our own tracking solution, so we're keeping the option to backpedal." If you're going with inside-out, commit to it and make it work well.

    I'm sure it would be too expensive to build both tracking solutions into the controllers, so the whole lighthouse thing just doesn't make sense. The Touch-style controllers and the inside-out tracking are the features that set Cosmos apart from Vive.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    OmegaM4N said:
    ^^You got a Titan X so i would have thought you would not need to upgrade until say the next millennium. lol


    It's an old Titan mate I'm afraid, Maxwell generation, served me very well but I think it's equivalent to something between a 1070 and 1080 (definitely not ti). It's great for everything I through at it now but I know it would be pushing the limits with a higher res headset. Especially if the headset doesn't have the benefit of Oculus' ASW 2.
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  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 583
    Trinity
    edited September 12


    "
    With the original Vive headset, for example, the blue whale in the well-known Wevr: TheBlu demo looked huge and lifelike. With the Cosmos, however, it was much more so, making the whole experience even more immersive. It really did feel like the whale was right there next to me. I could see details I didn't see before, like wrinkles around its eyes and warts and imperfections on its skin. The colors also looked richer and more saturated; the blue was deeper and the shadows were darker and more nuanced.
    "

    "
    When you flip the goggles up, the whole headset feels off-balance and front-heavy, as if it was about to slip off. The HTC representative said this was likely due to the slickness of my hair; the rear did not have as much grip on my head. I hardly think people with straight, long hair is a rarity, however, so I found this answer to be less than satisfactory.
    "

    sounds fancy, i want one... owo




  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 345
    Trinity
    edited September 12


    "
    With the original Vive headset, for example, the blue whale in the well-known Wevr: TheBlu demo looked huge and lifelike. With the Cosmos, however, it was much more so, making the whole experience even more immersive. It really did feel like the whale was right there next to me. I could see details I didn't see before, like wrinkles around its eyes and warts and imperfections on its skin. The colors also looked richer and more saturated; the blue was deeper and the shadows were darker and more nuanced.
    "

    "
    When you flip the goggles up, the whole headset feels off-balance and front-heavy, as if it was about to slip off. The HTC representative said this was likely due to the slickness of my hair; the rear did not have as much grip on my head. I hardly think people with straight, long hair is a rarity, however, so I found this answer to be less than satisfactory.
    "

    sounds fancy, i want one... owo




    That little tidbit might have sold me. I wish I didnt read it.


  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player
    "
    With the original Vive headset, for example, the blue whale in the well-known Wevr: TheBlu demo looked huge and lifelike. With the Cosmos, however, it was much more so, making the whole experience even more immersive. It really did feel like the whale was right there next to me. I could see details I didn't see before, like wrinkles around its eyes and warts and imperfections on its skin. The colors also looked richer and more saturated; the blue was deeper and the shadows were darker and more nuanced.
    "





    Hmm, sounds like the Index, but Cosmos will still be 90 hz scuba gear with the old fov - fun thing, a search for the word Index in current Cosmos hands-on reviews gave me nothing, so HTC said to the first reviewers "don't compare it to the Index"? Lol. 
    Looking forward to some proper reviews, hopefully HTC won't have similar tracking problems like Rift-S in the beginning... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,879 Volunteer Moderator
    RoadtoVR and UploadVR both mentioned minor tracking issues with the controllers in their hands-on articles. I don't find that surprising--Oculus has been working on it for years and they still released with significant issues (that have thankfully been fixed since). I would be amazed if HTC had more reliable inside-out tracking than Oculus right out of the gate.
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,879 Volunteer Moderator
    Just saw on UploadVR that HTC has announced they're discontinuing the original Vive with the release of Cosmos.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,436 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    Just saw on UploadVR that HTC has announced they're discontinuing the original Vive with the release of Cosmos.
    Kinda reminded me of a quote from a movie  :'( 

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,691 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    Just saw on UploadVR that HTC has announced they're discontinuing the original Vive with the release of Cosmos.

    Well this is slightly different to the CV1 > Rift-S situation - the sector still has the more expensive Vive Pro and Vive Pro Eye - or they can just migrate to the equally more expensive Valve Index - really feels like they are pricing out the prosumers for Enterprise in high-end. 
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