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Dont worry rift s is not dead yet!

inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
The quest will not be as good on PC because  of latency and will not look as good because of compression due to the USB connection. It will be interesting to hear the reviews of how big of a difference. A 90 refresh rate was considered but was not done because the FCC would have to recertify it.  I have both the rift and the quest so I guess I'll stick with using both for a bit. Wi fi wirless connection was considered but it was felt quality could not be a given. I was a bit disappointed about the PC quality spoken of but over time maybe it will go 100% the other way. Oculus always strives to improve.
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  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 484
    Trinity
    edited September 2019
    Rift S still has it's place.  I think Oculus may need to rethink their pricing strategy, as by comparison Quest looks like the much better deal.
    But Oculus has been very open about the limitations of the Oculus Link. I think the best course of action is to wait for Link to drop before going all in on Quest.

    Even one of the Link devs agree, Quest will not be replacing the Rift S:

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    I saw a link in these forums to an interview that said Oculus Quest hooked up to the PC looked really close to a Rift -S. Now you have to ask yourself this question. If it is very close to looking like a Rift S and is also going to get a lot more features. Then would you still pay £399 for a Rift S or £399 for an Oculus Quest? My choice by far would be to purchase the Oculus Quest if the article I read was correct.
    I predicted they wouldn't have a lot to say about PC -VR and it would be more about Oculus Quest, but given Oculus Quest can now connect to PC, it means they did talk about PC -VR when talking about Oculus Quest :D
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,190 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    inovator said:
    The quest will not be as good on PC because  of latency and will not look as good because of compression due to the USB connection. It will be interesting to hear the reviews of how big of a difference. A 90 refresh rate was considered but was not done because the FCC would have to recertify it.  I have both the rift and the quest so I guess I'll stick with using both for a bit. Wi fi wirless connection was considered but it was felt quality could not be a given. I was a bit disappointed about the PC quality spoken of but over time maybe it will go 100% the other way. Oculus always strives to improve.
    I think this first iteration by using Link and being able to hook up to PC will be a good first start, albeit will certainly have some rough around the edges. Along with the way cool hand/finger tracking that will be coming.  I have no doubt Rift S will still have better experience - for now. Likely why Oculus decided to team up with Lenovo to produce it for a while, whilst continuing development on their vision for a Quest like overall device.

    I have a feeling the next iteration of Quest though, whenever it comes,  might be a very big deal. 
    Don

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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    I saw a link in these forums to an interview that said Oculus Quest hooked up to the PC looked really close to a Rift -S. Now you have to ask yourself this question. If it is very close to looking like a Rift S and is also going to get a lot more features. Then would you still pay £399 for a Rift S or £399 for an Oculus Quest? My choice by far would be to purchase the Oculus Quest if the article I saw was correct.
    I predicted they wouldn't have a lot to say about PC -VR and it would be more about Oculus Quest, but given Oculus Quest can now connect to PC-VR, they were taliking about PC -VR when talking about Oculus Quest :D
    If it is really close than over time you may not see a difference. Then we can say final words on the rift s behalf. Quest and s tracking greatly improved as an example. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,012 Valuable Player

    Facebook has made a public statement to help address all the premature hyperbole.

    We started with the Quest platform first – and we’re going to listen to the feedback from Quest and will look at tackling the technical challenges of bringing it to other devices.
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,235 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:

    Facebook has made a public statement to help address all the premature hyperbole.

    We started with the Quest platform first – and we’re going to listen to the feedback from Quest and will look at tackling the technical challenges of bringing it to other devices.
    Interesting. I would believe more in their 2nd possible reason as the quest is a potentially a bigger market so it makes more sense to focus on that 1st.
  • Kapt-KrunchKapt-Krunch Posts: 21
    Brain Burst
    edited September 2019
    Edited : reading article now, thanks! 

    Yep, we got Zucked! I say that in jest, im still thoroughly enjoying my Rift S and plan on doing the same for a good while. 
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,147 Valuable Player
    I agree it definitely looks like riftS will still be the premium oculus PCVR experience.... But for quest users this is amazing, also for those who are pondering which device to buy now have decent options depending on use case.

    It is the future which excited me however. If they get the software nailed now using the quest. Quest 2 is bound to be usb3.1 (double the bandwidth) or maybe even USB4  8x the bandwidth) which will solve any data transfer issues.
    USB 4 is out I believe end of this year. That would mean an expansion card for a lot of folks I guess but price depending may not be a big deal esp if it has 3.1 compatibility mode
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  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    The biggest reason to get a Quest over a Rift-S...Beat Saber 360 mode...it's going to be a Quest exclusive. That's going to sell a lot more Quests because of it.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,890 Valuable Player
    Spuzzum said:
    The biggest reason to get a Quest over a Rift-S...Beat Saber 360 mode...it's going to be a Quest exclusive. That's going to sell a lot more Quests because of it.
    Not sure whacking more boxes will increase my IQ in any way, but each to his or her own, lol. Beat Saber has close to no value for me. But Asgard's Wrath and Stormland, now that might still be good reasons for some to get Rift-S over Quest ;) 
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,041 Valuable Player
    Seems to be a lot of backpedaling on actually how good the Quest Link is in comparison to the Rift-S. That TESTED comment about latency got a lot of tongues wagging.

    One source at OC6 heard the term "mothballed" a number of times - while even OculusVR seems to be down playing the significance of Rift-S future. 

    I wonder if they could artificially keep interest in Rift-S if they charged say $299 for the cable?

    I dont think this was the optic they were looking to come away from OC6 - seems the event was not really all what they needed. May be pushing the High-end VR community into the arms of HTC and the Cosmos (with its own tethered cable issues)!
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,041 Valuable Player
    Spuzzum said:
    The biggest reason to get a Quest over a Rift-S...Beat Saber 360 mode...it's going to be a Quest exclusive. That's going to sell a lot more Quests because of it.

    Yes, making that a exclusive will mint Beat Games a lot - wonder how they will be able to compete with the other Beat-Style games coming out, or if brand loyalty is enough.

    The main issue for me is if you have a high-end PC do you look at Quest as a casual VR immersion tool, or if you look at a Valve Index to complete the set - or a half way house of a HTC Cosmos. But for OculusVR the big question is did OC6 just create for Rift-S, the shortest ever product launch in Facebook history?
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,890 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    kevinw729 said:
    I dont think this was the optic they were looking to come away from OC6 - seems the event was not really all what they needed. May be pushing the High-end VR community into the arms of HTC and the Cosmos (with its own tethered cable issues)!
    I think that's spot on. When the smoke rises we're left with worse optics than Rift-S due to lack of lcd subpixels, same or lower res than Rift-S due to video feed limitations (maybe also some latencies), potentially worse tracking - and for those who thought that 80 Hz was bad, think again ;-) Can't help thinking that the race to the bottom is still on.
    I don't see any highend users going for Oculus Link alone, but Oculus Link (Quest) could be a fun second and mobile hmd for those who already have an Index, Cosmos or Reverb.

    Call me oldfashioned, but I like my VR display signal to come from a HDMI or a DisplayPort, like I like my red wine to be in a bottle sealed with a cork, lol.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    kevinw729 said:
    Seems to be a lot of backpedaling on actually how good the Quest Link is in comparison to the Rift-S. That TESTED comment about latency got a lot of tongues wagging.

    One source at OC6 heard the term "mothballed" a number of times - while even OculusVR seems to be down playing the significance of Rift-S future. 

    I wonder if they could artificially keep interest in Rift-S if they charged say $299 for the cable?

    I dont think this was the optic they were looking to come away from OC6 - seems the event was not really all what they needed. May be pushing the High-end VR community into the arms of HTC and the Cosmos (with its own tethered cable issues)!
    HTC Cosmos will have options to be tethered and used wireless if you purchase the device for it.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,617 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Bear with me - but I don't see how hard it be for Quest 2, for example, to support link+ in that - it detect if the in coming single is from USB or from Display-port and change how it deals with that. This way you could have full on data link while offering power still over one cable but still flexible enough to support different type of data input/links. With USB4 also coming around next year - it wouldn't surprise me to know we would have enough bandwidth to support it nativity at 90Hz.

    So while Quest 1 wont be that much of a threat to Rift S now - it can/will be in the next release?
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,041 Valuable Player
    There are two sides to this story - the calm and professional, and the knee-jerk.
    For those in the high-end PC VR community, this news just underlines a concern about Rift-S and how it was a compromise design, and that fundamentally, they will be looking at a Valve or a Cosmos solution when they feel the time is right to enter the water again. For the more "edgy" VR community with tighter wallets, they dont care and paint things "black&white" - and so for them Rift-S is done..."stick a fork in it!" 

    And as OculusVR has found to its cost in the past - not controlling the optics, and steering the message has proven their downfall on a number of occasions - and the danger is that people will see all the info-bombing from OC6 and jump to a simple conclusion, "Rift-S was a mistake and will be killed by a USB-C cable costing some $300!"
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    ** New Book **
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,041 Valuable Player
    Had to share!


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RuneSR2 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    The biggest reason to get a Quest over a Rift-S...Beat Saber 360 mode...it's going to be a Quest exclusive. That's going to sell a lot more Quests because of it.
    Not sure whacking more boxes will increase my IQ in any way, but each to his or her own, lol. Beat Saber has close to no value for me. But Asgard's Wrath and Stormland, now that might still be good reasons for some to get Rift-S over Quest ;) 
    lol...it's a fun game to burn off steam. It also has the highest rating of any game on Steam. It may not be for you, but it's huge with a pretty big portion of the people out there.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    @Kevinw729 - You can purchase 5m Usb C cable to usb for £11.99 from amazon? Or does it have to be an active cable or something?
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RedRizla said:
    @Kevinw729 - You can purchase 5m Usb C cable to usb for £11.99 from amazon? Or does it have to be an active cable or something?
    Apparently it's an optical cable, though I can't see how fiber optics works through usb. I always thought that was using light(?).
  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 322
    Trinity
    I think there is a converter that changes the USB signals into light signals that pass along the fiber optics then at the other end it is converted back to USB. This enables reliable signal transmission over long distances.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    That makes sense.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    Protocol7 said:
    I think there is a converter that changes the USB signals into light signals that pass along the fiber optics then at the other end it is converted back to USB. This enables reliable signal transmission over long distances.
    But they said you can use your own cable and not their if you want? So which cable is this on amazon right now? Link to cable on Amazon if anyone's got one.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    edited September 2019
    RedRizla said:
    Protocol7 said:
    I think there is a converter that changes the USB signals into light signals that pass along the fiber optics then at the other end it is converted back to USB. This enables reliable signal transmission over long distances.
    But they said you can use your own cable and not their if you want? So which cable is this on amazon right now? Link to cable on Amazon if anyone's got one.

    According to Facebook, most of high-quality USB Type-C cables will work with the Quest, so it looks like the device relies on a VirtualLink USB-C AltMode interface that needs 6 lanes of high speed data: 4 DisplayPort HBR 3 channels for video, a single USB 3.1 Gen 2 channel (2 lanes) for data, and a mandatory 15W of power. The manufacturer says that its own optical fiber cable for Oculus Quest will be available later this year and will provide enough bandwidth and plenty of length to move around the room when playing.
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/14907/oculus-link-connects-oculus-quest-to-a-gaming-pc

    The shortest usb optical cable I can find, is 10 meters, and it's $210 CAD. The Oculus Link cable's supposed to be 5 meters, and $79 USD.
    https://www.amazon.ca/Optical-Cables-Corning-Cable-Meter/dp/B00JOJRF6K
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,041 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @Kevinw729 - .... Or does it have to be an active cable or something?

    Yes it does, its much more than just a cable... they would have you understand, for your $200*!

    (*=I am speculating on the price.) 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    kevinw729 said:
    RedRizla said:
    @Kevinw729 - .... Or does it have to be an active cable or something?

    Yes it does, its much more than just a cable... they would have you understand, for your $200*!

    (*=I am speculating on the price.) 
    It was listed at $79 USD earlier.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Haha - $200 you're shitting me right?
    @Spuzzum - That cable you linked just changed to $210. Also it has 1 star from 1 review so far.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RedRizla said:
    Haha - $200 you're shitting me right?
    @Spuzzum - That cable you linked just changed to $210. Also it has 1 star from 1 review so far.
    That was the only cable I could find without searching to hard. You just asked for a link to an optical usb cable. :P
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,563 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 2019

    There's always been quite a gap between people's opinion of the Rift-S split between those who've used it and those who haven't.

    That gap in opinion is going to get much bigger now that people are presented with a choice of a headset that seemingly does both mobile and PC and a headset that does PC only. I think most people won't look into the specs as closely as we're doing in this forum.. perhaps the user experience compares well and for most people, questioning the specs is not as productive as it is for us.

    At the moment I'm pretty sure dedicated mobile and dedicated PC headsets are going to yield the best experiences for me and the more details I hear, the less I'm questioning my own decision to get an S and a Quest.

    It's going to be really interesting how this plays out though with new adopters. I'm guessing Quest is going to sell big, really big, probably at the expense of the S. Which could make my opinion of the S redundant if the end result of all this is that software developers shift their targets towards the biggest selling device.

    Hopefully the alternative is that PC games for Oculus headsets have an added option with their settings to play in Rift mode.. or Quest link mode, without reducing quality for those of us with Rifts.

    What do you guys think is going to be the affect on software developers of the Oculus Link... if any?

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    Funny enough software is exactly what I was thinking about when they announced that Oculus Quest can be tethered to a PC. What happens if they create games like Lone Echo and someone who purchases an Oculus Quest doesn't have a PC? This makes me wonder if there is going to be a separate library for Oculus Quest PC -VR games?
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