New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

If the Rift S doesn't get hand tracking I'll be monumentally pi**ed

Can't believe I'm not seeing anything about this here.
The Quest is not only getting promoted to a PC+standalone device, making the Rift S virtually obsolete but it's also getting hand tracking which the Rift S could well get too, but apparently isn't getting.
And yeah, I know the speech about the Rift S having 8 Hz better refresh, supposedly better subpixel layout, and some milliseconds less latency, but when the time comes to resell it, nobody will care.
Also, the Quest has IPD adjustment and OLED panels.

If the Rift is left so much behind the Quest, it will become garbage you can't sell unless you practically give it away.
A slap in the face of the people who paid the exact same money as those who bought a Quest.

Not happy AT ALL.
«1

Comments

  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    To play fair - what are you going to use hand tracking at all with? What will it give to you to have that it be a deal  breaker if it wasnt there? Do you understand that the hand tracking isn't that great either with in millia seconds of time sometimes for it to work at times?
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 476
    Trinity
    Mradr said:
    To play fair - what are you going to use hand tracking at all with? What will it give to you to have that it be a deal  breaker if it wasnt there? Do you understand that the hand tracking isn't that great either with in millia seconds of time sometimes for it to work at times?
    Social VR interactions. Hand tracking will be helpful in the upcoming Facebook Horizon experience.


    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus Rift S
    Oculus GO
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
  • Redlightning7777Redlightning7777 Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    There are quite a few decisions those behind these units, in my humble opinion, are making that are just so anti-consumer and reek of pure money making bull.... when the VR industry decides to tank they are going to start blaming everything but their own choices. 

    Like the decision not to sell replacement cables..  and really..  just why?  in most games I play it is in almost constant motion.   Pure gold to them..   not from me.   That breaks..  damned if I'm giving more of my money out, oh wait..  that would mean I would lose access to all my bought games in the ocu-gardania of a store... quite a conundrum over a 20-40 dollar cable..  heck it would still be a steal at 50 bucks. 

    Oh ..  the madness. 
  • uKERuKER Posts: 162
    Art3mis
    It's a true shame.
    I'd say sometimes bad reputation due to stuff like this is more relevant as to the success of a company than actually putting out good products.
    Say, if Pimax got good press among its customers, it would deserve to destroy Oculus even if its headsets weren't all that much better.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,060 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    uKER said:
    It's a true shame.
    I'd say sometimes bad reputation due to stuff like this is more relevant as to the success of a company than actually putting out good products.
    Say, if Pimax got good press among its customers, it would deserve to destroy Oculus even if its headsets weren't all that much better.

    It is apparent Oculus focus right now is on Quest and getting Link and Hand Tracking working with it. 
    They have said nothing on Rift S in regards to Hand Tracking, so that does not mean it will or won't get it, just apparently not something they are ready to address just yet.
    I think currently the Rift S is what it is, and they are focused intently on furthering capabilities of Quest.
    Oculus tends to stay pretty tight lipped anyway. I would not be surprised if when they get the kinks worked out they move in onto Rift S, seems like it would be not so difficult to implement once done for Quest.
    But who knows...
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    They've never said it wasn't coming to the Rift-S...it's still in the early stages of beta, and maybe they want to perfect it on the Quest first, before releasing to the Rift-S. As well, there's concern the Rift-S's cameras might not pick up the hands in the same area as the Quest's cameras.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    ShocksVR said:
    Mradr said:
    To play fair - what are you going to use hand tracking at all with? What will it give to you to have that it be a deal  breaker if it wasnt there? Do you understand that the hand tracking isn't that great either with in millia seconds of time sometimes for it to work at times?
    Social VR interactions. Hand tracking will be helpful in the upcoming Facebook Horizon experience.


    Sure - but controllers can do it - and better in some cases. Again - what makes it a deal breaker/black lash like that? Again - have to keep in mind that it isn't fast - breaks tracking quite easy - and takes time for it to work in some cases still. Sure it'll get better - but only by a percent here and there until another hardware release.
  • geebee666geebee666 Posts: 224
    Nexus 6
    edited September 2019
    Sitting on the couch watching videos, surfing the net, Social apps, Home,Google earth and assuming they get it right you will have a lot of control options.

    Not to mention people with hand injuries / conditions maybe better able to use a hand rather than a controller, I have a current condition that it would make using VR a lot less painful.

    The latest Tested has a great chat with an Oculus tech about options  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2zLneGGbk8&t=1768s
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 2019
    I'm with you @uKER I'll be a bit passed too. I don't see a reason not to have it on the S though and like @Spuzzum says, I have a sneaky feeling it hasn't been confirmed, either because it's later down the development pipeline or because Quest is just the headline headset atm. They'll make more announcements about hand tracking before too long.

    Also, if I remember right, the Quest is doing the hand tracking computing (rather than a feature that's limited to Link mode and done from the PC), whereas the PC would do it for the Rift-S so that in itself needs separate development, meaning change to PC software. So maybe that would explain different release dates.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    One thing mentioned was that it works best with the Qualcomm chip in the Quest, as it's specifically designed for VR and AR, as well as having the camera tech already in phones, that's already being used to track the controllers. Doing it on the pc 'should' be possible, but would take a different code than what's being used for the Quest. I mean they have Leap Motion, which is pc based, so it's definitely possible.

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/29/17405186/qualcomm-xr1-virtual-reality-ar-chip-announced
    https://www.cnet.com/news/qualcomm-new-phone-powered-eye-tracking-vr-and-ar-headsets-are-coming-in-2020/
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,327
    Project 2501
    I bought Rift S and I am more concerned with the fact that Oculus has not released an add on for sound yet?

    They need to release an addon for built in earphones or a whole new deluxe audio strap of some kind. I don't know what's taking so long.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    I bought Rift S and I am more concerned with the fact that Oculus has not released an add on for sound yet?

    They need to release an addon for built in earphones or a whole new deluxe audio strap of some kind. I don't know what's taking so long.

    agreed
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 2019
    Spuzzum said:
    One thing mentioned was that it works best with the Qualcomm chip in the Quest, as it's specifically designed for VR and AR, as well as having the camera tech already in phones, that's already being used to track the controllers. Doing it on the pc 'should' be possible, but would take a different code than what's being used for the Quest. I mean they have Leap Motion, which is pc based, so it's definitely possible.

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/29/17405186/qualcomm-xr1-virtual-reality-ar-chip-announced
    https://www.cnet.com/news/qualcomm-new-phone-powered-eye-tracking-vr-and-ar-headsets-are-coming-in-2020/


    Yeah, I assume its just a question of which they focused on first. Maybe Quest is seen is the priority for getting it working as that may have needed more work so as not to impact on the limited processing power, so makes for a more impressive feature.

    I like to do the difficult tasks first and leave the easy things until that's done! Donno really, I'm rambling.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator
    Another thing to consider; when the Rift S was announced, they said that it would in no way make CV1 obsolete, and that there wouldn’t be anything on Rift S that couldn’t be played on CV1. They may be reluctant to start introducing new features that divide the PCVR base, and if they did release it on the Rift S, they might want to keep its use limited to non-essential functions that can also be achieved with controllers. 

    Now that's an interesting comment, I hadn't thought of that. It's logical I guess but would be a hell of a shame if it turns out that's the deciding factor.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,201 Volunteer Moderator
    Another thing to consider; when the Rift S was announced, they said that it would in no way make CV1 obsolete, and that there wouldn’t be anything on Rift S that couldn’t be played on CV1. They may be reluctant to start introducing new features that divide the PCVR base, and if they did release it on the Rift S, they might want to keep its use limited to non-essential functions that can also be achieved with controllers. 

    Now that's an interesting comment, I hadn't thought of that. It's logical I guess but would be a hell of a shame if it turns out that's the deciding factor.

    On the other side of that coin, it would be a shame for CV1 users if we suddenly saw a lot of Rift S games that made use of passthrough camera views and/or hand tracking features that the CV1 couldn't do.

    On a new platform like Quest, or a true Rift 2, that would be another thing, because there would be no promise of compatibility for older systems, but Rift S was specifically not supposed to upset the apple cart for the Rift ecosystem.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32GB | Corsair HX 750W
    SSDs: Intel 660p M.2 2TB, Samsung 860 Evo 1TB, 850 Evo 1TB, 840 Evo 1TB | Startech 4 controller PCIe USB 3.0
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    Another thing to consider; when the Rift S was announced, they said that it would in no way make CV1 obsolete, and that there wouldn’t be anything on Rift S that couldn’t be played on CV1. They may be reluctant to start introducing new features that divide the PCVR base, and if they did release it on the Rift S, they might want to keep its use limited to non-essential functions that can also be achieved with controllers. 

    Now that's an interesting comment, I hadn't thought of that. It's logical I guess but would be a hell of a shame if it turns out that's the deciding factor.

    On the other side of that coin, it would be a shame for CV1 users if we suddenly saw a lot of Rift S games that made use of passthrough camera views and/or hand tracking features that the CV1 couldn't do.

    On a new platform like Quest, or a true Rift 2, that would be another thing, because there would be no promise of compatibility for older systems, but Rift S was specifically not supposed to upset the apple cart for the Rift ecosystem.
    I think the idea of a new headset not surpassing the old is just a falis of an idea to keep a hold of. It never work in the past as a new feature will be added either way over all to get users to upgrade in the first place most of the time or a new way to do something comes out.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,457 Volunteer Moderator

    Yep, I'm with Mradr on that one... don't let old tech hold up the new.

    The problem is that if it proves useful, and it's not implemented on PC for Rift-S, it's the kind of feature that could attract more people to Quest instead of PCVR which would have a detrimental effect on PCVR development overall, and that wouldn't' be great for CV1 owners either, who must want to upgrade at some point, presumably to a headset that has a feature like this.

    The best solution I think is for software developers to allow for both Touch and hand tracking options within games.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.657)
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,201 Volunteer Moderator
    When Rift S released, the message to current Rift owners was: "This is not a required upgrade, you can happily keep using your CV1 and everything will continue to work on it." Now, they could always decide to throw that by the wayside, but Rift S is not Rift 2--it's a refresh, not an upgrade or next generation. As Rubin said, a true Rift 2 would be expected to break compatibility and introduce new things that couldn't be done on a CV1, but that's not what Rift S is.

    That said, they could still implement the feature and stipulate to developers that it must not be a necessary feature for any aspect of their software--as long as everything can be done with controllers as an alternate input, then it's fine. They could also just let developers forget about CV1 users and go all-in on features that only Rift S can use, but that would be kind of shitty for those who haven't rushed to replace their headset.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32GB | Corsair HX 750W
    SSDs: Intel 660p M.2 2TB, Samsung 860 Evo 1TB, 850 Evo 1TB, 840 Evo 1TB | Startech 4 controller PCIe USB 3.0
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,585 Valuable Player
    edited September 2019
    Well I mean - CV1 should still use it no problem. It just wont have access to that feature. Even still and I think most ppl are really over hyping it - hand tracking isn't that good - yet - for massively different game play. More or less they would still have to allow controllers for anything that can be done with them. I feel right now it's more of a demo/starting to get the idea that we could with AR later down the road than it is useful right now other than for UI of course.

    I wouldn't worry about it - just yet - I am sure it's coming it just takes longer to create because of the fact the hardware is different built for different needs at the time as well. It is - after all - possible to do almost anything software even if it is a bit slower in some cases.
  • FangzhouFangzhou Posts: 45
    Brain Burst
    So after OC6 you still believe that Oculus care about Rift S users? lol
    They only care about money 
  • lensmandavelensmandave Posts: 304
    Trinity
    Fangzhou said:
    So after OC6 you still believe that Oculus care about Rift S users? lol
    They only care about money 
    Well, that's the whole point of a business, no?
    Intel Core i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz. Asus-Z170-PRO MB
    CORSAIR H105 HYDRO CPU COOLER.
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX1080ti. 16GB DDR4 2666MHZ HYPERX SAVAGE.
    SAMSUNG M.2 SSD 128GB SM951 Boot Drive. SAMSUNG SSD 500GB EVO Working Drive.
    Windows 10  64bit Professional
  • EvogaEvoga Posts: 22
    Brain Burst
    I sold my Rift and just purchased a Quest due to the announcement of the cable.  

    With hand tracking also there is no reason to bother with the Rift. 

    Just sell it and move on as the Quest is lots of fun. 
  • Fri13Fri13 Posts: 51
    Hiro Protagonist

    Rift S really needs the hand tracking. Give us a mouse cursor on the point of either hands tip of index finger (priority on right hand when pointed) so flight and driving simulator gamers can operate the cockpits while flying with HOTAS. 

    Think as well a VR chess game where you could really pick up a piece with virtual hand. A RTS game that allows you to use hand gestures and moves to command the units etc. 

    This is why the 25€ gadget did amazing things years ago! 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlCGw-0R8g

    Now think that in games like Lone Echo or the Climb.... Crazy!

    I still would use Oculus Touch Controllers for every shooter game, or Darth Vader etc... 
  • sfinneysfinney Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    edited December 2019
    I bought Rift S and I am more concerned with the fact that Oculus has not released an add on for sound yet?

    They need to release an addon for built in earphones or a whole new deluxe audio strap of some kind. I don't know what's taking so long.
    This 1000 times. I'm holding on to my Rift CV1 while dealing with the Quest vs. Rift S analysis paralysis... The one thing I continue to think is that I'd be fart happier with the weird 1+1 headphone arrangement on the Quest. 

    I am neither too concerned with hand tracking or being portable. I'd rather have the LCD sub-pixel arrangement and if I *really* want portable VR I'd pick up a laptop or build a very small PC. The Rift S though, seems to be getting the cold shoulder and a lot of the opinion about it being a "developer device" seems to be holding true, which means the Quest (where the consumers are) is going to get a lot more love. 
  • JoeManji08JoeManji08 Posts: 160
    Art3mis
    Fri13 said:

    Rift S really needs the hand tracking. Give us a mouse cursor on the point of either hands tip of index finger (priority on right hand when pointed) so flight and driving simulator gamers can operate the cockpits while flying with HOTAS. 
    This would be amazing for us gamers -- and it also would make VR a much more viable medium for flight training!  Taking it a step further to virtual switches that are actuated with virtual hands (rather than simulating mouse clicks) would be a game changer.  We already have something similar using touch controllers on some sim programs, but those aren't really compatible with HOTAS throttles and sticks -- you have to choose one or the other.  And touch controls are terrible compared to physical controls for the stick and throttle.

    Tens of thousands are spent on cockpits with functioning switches, but if one $400 VR headset could help train the muscle memory of actuating those switches, it would be a no-brainer.  

    I, for one, could stop mapping random stuff to random switches on my HOTAS for the P-51 start sequence lol.
  • Soulless512Soulless512 Posts: 107
    Art3mis
    What gets me is it feels like they are taking a massive dump on those that do have the cv1 and the rift s. They should understand that PC market does a lot of VR gaming, yeah being able to move around is nice but still having a powerful pc to run it is nice. I for one do not want to feel like i pissed money into the wind with buying the rift s
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,990 Volunteer Moderator
    Taking it a step further to virtual switches that are actuated with virtual hands (rather than simulating mouse clicks) would be a game changer. 
    Fly Inside lets you use a Leap Motion for finger tracked control of a plane.

    Warning: don't google for "fly inside hands" to get a hand tracking demo video, you'll end up instead with videos of bot fly lavae being surgically removed from people's hands. URGH.



  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    We use leap, wmr controllers, Rift controllers including Rift S and pimax index and Vive controllers also.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

Sign In or Register to comment.