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Freedom of modding

RetroGame066RetroGame066 Posts: 1
NerveGear
Dear Oculus,    

I recently updated to Oculus Quest version 9 and I've stumbled upon a set of rules that highly concerns me. I am talking about the ability to enable developer mode. 

As many tech enthusiasts do, when we buy a cellphone, computer or a device like the Oculus Quest, we like to alter, mod or add pieces of software that is not originally provided by a developer or the company itself.    

When I read the privacy statement closely, it states that you will strip down people's ability to enable developer mode or even permanently ban people if they mess with pieces of software or upload software that isn't compliant with the Oculus Quest guideline making the Quest entirely useless if you don't follow the rules.    

I quote the following: "We also employ dedicated teams and develop advanced technical systems to detect misuse and violations and reserve the right to take appropriate action as per our Terms of Service, including removing content, blocking access to certain features, disabling an account, or contacting law enforcement."   

Isn't the Oculus Quest build on Android? Because android's privacy policy clearly states that it is not allowed by a company to monitor anyone's device let alone by the AVG/GDPR standards. That being said if somebody installs something locally on their device, without that software using any form of cloud based communication to Oculus Quest's servers how are you able to monitor that? That would mean your company has backdoor access to all Quest devices to see what kind of local apps are installed. This is a big violation of our privacy and I can speak for many people that they are not happy that a company is monitoring our software usage.  

Privacy should never ever be violated in order to detect pirated software or something that has been purchased and modded.  For example, if you buy an android based mobile device, you can enable: "Allow software from unknown sources" when developer mode is enabled to install your software outside the Google play environment, this is the exact same principle with the Quest. But i've never heard of a mobile company that has an entire team that will acces your cellphone if you installed something that is against the law or violates any rule based on their policy, simply because it's against privacy rules. I've also never heard of a windows gaming company that will scan your entire hard drive for pirated games so they can block you or remove you permanently from their service, because yet again, it would be against the privacy law to collect that data from their local device to detect piracy.   

I support developers and don't like to see companies getting robbed from their hard earned money, but this isn't the way to go. Oculus Quest was a device that had it all, tweaking, modding, sideloading and the yet to come Oculus link and Hand tracking. Since the Facebook privacy scandal it is way out of boundary to monitor all Quest's devices like this.

There was an entire community build around Beat Saber for example, now they have stopped, just because you threaten to disable their accounts and thus making their devices useless and removes any purchased games, this gives a company way too much power.  

I want to give an example to Valve: Half life, portal and many other games have been customized or entirely remodded by the community so people could enjoy their own way of gaming. I was really thrilled that the Oculus Quest was as free spirited as Valve itself, but from now on, it is illegal to even adjust the tiniest bit of software that you purchase and play offline in your own environment, because your company threatens with permanent bans and a complete dedicated team to make sure everybody follows every rule. The Oculus Quest as I see it was the device of the future, now it seems like oculus doesn't care about people minding their own business.  

 In the old days when you bought Tomb Raider you could download a nude pack so you could see the 3 pixels of boobs as a kid? Just like the entire remake of Black Mesa in 2012 as a dedication to Half Life made by a single modder.  Most idea's, functions, expressions and builds you have to thank to those modders, who made these in their free time so we could enjoy it. And that makes a community thriving and vibrant. But you've set the tone and made sure that everyone who dares to touch the system will be punished.   

Really, I do stand for anti-piracy, but I am more pro-privacy and fair use policy.

Comments

  • myspockmyspock Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    Good luck getting a reasonable response.  I don’t know what they’ve done, but a friend of mine applied all of the appropriate steps to achieve 2x resolution (which is absolutely essential for this device), and it didn’t work.  I am in the process of returning my Quest because of the inadequate resolution.
  • RHunterrRHunterr Posts: 66
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited October 6
    "Inadequate"? "absolutely essential"?? lol... neither of those is true.
  • BrotherO4BrotherO4 Posts: 7
    NerveGear
    kinda need to know. i need my AMD Relive streaming feature since Oculus does not want to provide that feature themselves. 
  • h.r.gargih.r.gargi Posts: 93
    Hiro Protagonist
    Jesus! Freedom of modding... Come on! Really? Since I saw the first apps like Sidequest I thought this all goes into a wrong direction. This button is called Developer Mode and not Fiddle around mode. It is made for companies making new apps or people learning how to build VR apps like I did the last months. And not for providing stuff for the masses left and right of the regulare store.
    Look here in this forum. How many posts about sideloading stuff from people who don't even know what they are doing in the background can you read day by day? Is this the way it has to be? 
    There is no freedom of modding, there is an expensive piece of hardware and a DEVELOPER mode. 
  • BrotherO4BrotherO4 Posts: 7
    NerveGear
    when oculus wants to provide a wifi streaming mode than maybe we can talk about not having the ability to sideload. this is one of the main things about quest being a bad idea..FB wants everything to be locked down. this is why i simple avoid buying any game on the oculus store. sure they let us play steam VR today...but they can blocked it tomorrow with an update.
  • h.r.gargih.r.gargi Posts: 93
    Hiro Protagonist
    Again: Sideloading was never a customer feature or offered for that way from Oculus. It is a developer's tool. Nothing more nothing less. All other things are fanmade and never intended by Oculus. They can't take something they never gave ;-)
  • BrotherO4BrotherO4 Posts: 7
    NerveGear
    edited October 7
    i dont know what world you live in but side loading does exist cause we have been doing it. so yes..they are trying to take away something for no reason at all. 
  • PartyfreakerPartyfreaker Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    h.r.gargi said:
    Again: Sideloading was never a customer feature or offered for that way from Oculus. It is a developer's tool. Nothing more nothing less. All other things are fanmade and never intended by Oculus. They can't take something they never gave ;-)
    I guess you have an iPhone? So that everything is nicely locked away? Oculus is nothing more than a android mobile device that has been stripped off their mobile functions and build into a standalone headset. When you press on the software version on a android device multiple times you'll get access to the developer mode exactly as the quest does, but the quest just build a fancy skin around it. This is not something that quest has build themselves but is a standard function provided by android. It's nothing more than installing an APK out the standard store.

    That's why I like Valve so much, even tho Oculus has banned SteamVR from their soft and hardware, Valve added native support for the oculus quest and rift controllers so you can play SteamVR on Virtual Desktop or Revive even while the product is not owned by valve. I don't like greedy companies, and I don't like it when they try to control how I use my content.

    That being said, if I buy a game like beatsaber for €40 on the quest I hope I can add a spongebob template menu whenever I damn please. Now I'm really not interested anymore in buying something on the Quest store because apparently I don't own it and risk the chance of even losing it. When I buy a VR game in the Steam store at least I own it and can mod it however I want and am guaranteed that I the own of it for the rest of my life no matter what I add to the software. Really sad that a community that was growing in such a fun experience is now changed so drastically.
  • h.r.gargih.r.gargi Posts: 93
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited October 7
    Maybe I am too old to understand you people. A highly priced game should be a reason why you are allowed to mod and hack it?
    I see ... I am on the wrong side of the moon. 
  • BrotherO4BrotherO4 Posts: 7
    NerveGear
    yes, people bought it. its no longer yours but theirs to do as they please. this is a Single player game so you cant even use "Cheating" as a defense. if people want to change their sabers into starwars themes..they can and should. they bought it and own it. good thing i still own ZERO games on the oculus store.
  • parsecnparsecn Posts: 57
    Hiro Protagonist
    It's an interesting post and I sympathize with the overall sentiment. I have purchased Beat Saber (well over a year ago) for use with my CV1 and modded it almost straight away at the request of my 10 year old son. He loves using custom sabers, the ability to mod game colours, etc. I have absolutely no issues with him doing this and can't see how modding would negatively affect a publisher or the title itself, aside from his ability to install custom songs - where you can argue, he thereby has no interest in DLCs which are effectively song-packs eg Imagine Dragons. 

    While I don't own a Quest, rest assured fb ratcheting down side-loading or removing developers options, debugging, etc. will be a cat and mouse game. If they remove dev options, someone will root the device so that as an administrator, it can be reenabled. If they completely remove anything dev releated from an update build, persons (with root) will export the o/s from an older device and make it available for download and flashing like custom roms on XDA. Mind you, no one has bothered with any of this (to my knowledge) as they haven't had to. There's not really a need for root or the like. Facebook pushing in one direction, will get a push back and it may be more than they bargain for.
  • PartyfreakerPartyfreaker Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    h.r.gargi said:
    Maybe I am too old to understand you people. A highly priced game should be a reason why you are allowed to mod and hack it?
    I see ... I am on the wrong side of the moon. 
    I'm 30 years old so my first games I played was on MS-dos. In the old days, you could buy a floppy disk or CD and that game was yours to do whatever you wanted to do with it without getting banned. Ofcourse making illegal copies of it and distributing  is illegal and for good reason. I was always a PC gamer and that's why I never had to Jailbreak, root or homebrew any gaming device to get the maximum out of my games or software. Then came Steam, they embraced modding with both hands created software called Garry's mod so you could make entire different games from the games you purchased. I grew up from that platform so yes maybe I am very open-minded, but that is because I have seen how a community like steam had grown because it was limitless, accepted all controllers natively  (x-box, ps) even tho they had their own steam controllers, the steam controllers could even be used outside the steam platform so you were never limited to one system. If Oculus is going to shut down all freedom, the chance of a big successful VR community would be lesser than it was open-minded just like Steam. And I hope oculus will realize that when you ban people because they want to improve their own gaming experience you'll get less enthusiasts that want to use the platform and thus end up buying games on steamVR when the Oculus Link comes out or just use Virtual Desktop that already can stream games from the PC.
  • RHunterrRHunterr Posts: 66
    Hiro Protagonist
    lol! Wow... just..... wow. There's alot of yahoos with pitchforks and torches here over basically... well.. nothing. lol. There's so, SO many things wrong, ignorant, or just plain fabrication with several of the comments here that I'm not even going to do anything other than shake my head and walk away. lol
  • PartyfreakerPartyfreaker Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    RHunterr said:
    lol! Wow... just..... wow. There's alot of yahoos with pitchforks and torches here over basically... well.. nothing. lol. There's so, SO many things wrong, ignorant, or just plain fabrication with several of the comments here that I'm not even going to do anything other than shake my head and walk away. lol
    Then why even bother responding? We try to evaluate an opinion. Just because you say we use pitchforks and calling us ignorant doesn't mean you're right. Where did you read that we will use force? If you really know what you're talking about you could justify your opinion just like a decent debate without calling somebody names.
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