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Beat Saber Quest Leaderboard Cheating

Crazy_SaneCrazy_Sane Posts: 6
NerveGear
After months of exhausting practice, I've come to realise that some people are cheating the Beat Saber leaderboards on the Quest. Now before you make the assumption that I'm just salty because I'm not that good at Beat Saber, I have some of the top scores on the Quest. But I must admit, none of them are on Expert+. I'm not a god!
The reason I know people are cheating is because their scores are far above the maximum possible score achievable for a given song/ difficulty. The formula to calculate the approximate max score is as follows:

Number of blocks x max swing score x max combo x max modifier bonus = max score

Written another way: number of blocks x 115 x 8 x 1.19 = max score.

This is approximate because it doesn't take into account the time it takes to build up to the max combo, so the actual figure would be a little less.

But there are leaderboard scores that far exceed this maximum, which ruins it for all of the honest players that have put in so much time and effort to get where they are on the leaderboards. I've contacted Oculus Support and tried to contact the Beat Saber devs, but my words have fallen on deaf ears.

OK, it may be difficult to weed out the cheats, but when it's that obvious, why are they allowed to remain #1. I don't think the cheats should be banned from playing BS, but they should at least be banned from the leaderboards.

If you'd like to see examples of what I'm talking about, check out "$100 Bills", "Crab Rave" or "Epic" on normal difficulty and do the maths yourself.

I'd love to hear from the Quest community about this topic. Am I the only one that cares?

Comments

  • Coconut3451Coconut3451 Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    I've noticed the scores too, and ran the calculations myself. I mentioned it on beat saber discord, and only one person acknowledged my complaint. I went onto beat saber the following morning and the scores were gone. By the end of the day, those scores returned. Now there are even more of those scores posted. I'm sure the devs are aware that this is going on. As the cheating continues, it seems to be getting worse. It kind of proves to me that it does not matter to them that much. If it did matter they would remove those scores permanently from the leaderboard, AND prevent it from happening again. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening again
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,530 Volunteer Moderator
    The game Mirror's Edge had a leaderboard for finishing maps, but it had a cool feature: you could watch a replay of every leaderboard entry. All the top scores had the player just flying through the air or going through walls. So at least it was obvious which were cheats (although nothing was done about them).

    I generally don't trust leaderboards for the general public. Friends and myself, yes, but not random people. There's always a bunch of cheats.
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,010 Valuable Player
    edited October 9
    I hate it when big companies advertise their short game as score focused, and that it's replayability comes from competing on the leaderboards, but then give fuck all about cleaning them from obvious cheats.

    Yeah, I'm looking at you Epic :angry:
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    What are people's thoughts on having a name and shame list for cheats on this forum?
    We would have to be 100% sure that the score is a cheat though and not the result of some bug...how is the cheating being done?

    Well, it's just a thought.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.418)
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,010 Valuable Player
    edited October 10
    DaftnDirect said:
    how is the cheating being done?
    In the case of Robo Recall it was someone who coded a "trainer" hack, which among other stuff let you increase your score multiplier. I talked to the guy who made it.

    We informed Epic and they gave fuck all.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • Crazy_SaneCrazy_Sane Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    A name and shame might be a good deterrent, but I have no idea how it's being done. So you could only name people with impossibly high scores. Anyone cunning enough to keep their scores believable would get away with it.

    I couldn't find any info on the subject, but if there is a bug in the game, exploiting it is still cheating IMO.

    We could also start a thread of confirmed highscores with links to Youtube videos. I can't see how you could cheat if the whole thing was recorded. It would be a little tedious, but it would keep it fair for competitive players. Maybe just the top 10 scores for each song/ difficulty.

    Thoughts?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah it's a tricky one. Confirmed via a recorded vid would be good but puts quite a bit of a burden on the innocent to jump through the hoops of gameplay recording... may be the only safe way to do it. I agree about only shaming the impossible scores.

    I guess a confirmed vid leader board isn't accusing anyone, it's just a separate board that can't be argued with. I'm kind of liking it more!


    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.418)
  • JohSm67JohSm67 Posts: 161
    Art3mis
    There will always be those taking a fast patch and also cheat to get fame :-(
    People that are cheating should be banned for 3 months after scores been removed, no online score upload access.

  • Crazy_SaneCrazy_Sane Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    edited October 11
    It may take me a little time, but I'm willing to put some effort into a leaderboard thread.

    I've just recorded the number of blocks and calculated the exact maximum scores for OST 1.

    To get the exact maximum possible score was a little tricky, but to simplify:

    ((Total number of blocks - 14) x 1094.8) + 5747.7 = Exact possible maximum

    The first 2 notes are at 1x combo
    The next 4 are at 2x combo
    The next 8 are at 4x combo
    The remaining notes are at 8x

    OST 1 Song List:
    $100 Bills
    Easy: 156 notes, max 161,209
    Normal: 196 notes, max 205,001
    Hard: 264 notes, max 279,448
    Exp: 437 notes, max 484,175
    Exp+: 734 notes, max 794,004

    Balearic Pumping
    Easy:170 notes, max 176,537
    Normal: 239 notes, max 252,078
    Hard: 341 notes, max 363,747
    Exp: 459 notes, max 492,934
    Exp+: 608 notes, max 656,059

    Beat Saber
    Easy: 94 notes, max 93,332
    Normal: 116 notes, max 117,417
    Hard: 202 notes, max 211,570
    Exp: 267 notes, max 282,732
    Exp+: 632 notes, max 682,334

    Breezer
    Easy: 106 notes, max 106,469
    Normal: 173 notes, max 179,821
    Hard: 272 notes, max 288,206
    Exp: 356 notes, max 380,169
    Exp+: 566 notes, max 610,077

    Commercial Pumping
    Easy: 136 notes, max 139,313
    Normal: 213 notes, max 223,613
    Hard: 329 notes, max 350,610
    Exp: 447 notes, max 479,796
    Exp+: 848 notes, max 918,811

    Country Roads
    Easy: 151 notes, max 155,735
    Normal: 208 notes, max 218,139
    Hard: 295 notes, max 313,387
    Exp: 544 notes, max 585,992
    Exp+: 773 notes, max 836,701

    Escape
    Easy: 157 notes, max 162,304
    Normal: 195 notes, max 203,907
    Hard: 287 notes, max 304,628
    Exp: 399 notes, max 427,246
    Exp+: 600 notes, max 647,301

    Legend
    Easy: 150 notes, max 154,641
    Normal: 184 notes, max 191,864
    Hard: 216 notes, max 226,897
    Exp: 289 notes, max 306,818
    Exp+: 638 notes, max 688,903

    Lvl Insane
    Easy: 102 notes, max 102,090
    Normal: 139 notes, max 142,598
    Hard: 198 notes, max 207,191
    Exp: 330 notes, max 351,705
    Exp+: 587 notes, max 633,068

    Turn Me On
    Easy: 121 notes, max 122,891
    Normal: 156 notes, max 161,209
    Hard: 244 notes, max 257,552
    Exp: 341 notes, max 363,747
    Exp+: 663 notes, max 716,273

    I'll do this for every song, except the DLC (because I don't own it). Would be great if someone with the DLC could compile that. Once it's all done I'll try to think of a format for this, but of course I would welcome all the help I can get 😊
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    If you're willing to do a Beat Saber thread @Crazy_Sane with what you think would be useful in it, that would be really good. Hopefully it would get plenty of gameplay vid submissions, then maybe we could get volunteers to do the same for other games. An all-game thread with a summary of confirmed high scores kept up to date in the opening post would be worth making a sticky I think but it's starting to sound like a big task!
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.418)
  • Crazy_SaneCrazy_Sane Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    Yeah, that would be cool. I'll have my work cut out for me, but hopefully it's all worth it. I'm a bit worn out at the moment, but I'll get to work on it this weekend.

    I was thinking maybe a thread for each OST/ music pack that has the info in my last post as well as the leaderboard top ten for each song/ difficulty. Then people could reply with their username and a link to a video. After scrutiny by willing mods and/ or myself, the link could be added to the main leaderboard with a confirmation.

    It would be awesome if the developers were onboard, so it doesn't all have to be done manually. Who knows, if this turns out to be popular, maybe they will get involved.
  • Geef01Geef01 Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    It would be nice to have a checkbox that says if you think you'll be in the top 10 bracket check this box to record or you won't be listed.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,519 Valuable Player
    edited October 14
    I would like to add my vote as well. I think if you want on the public leader board you should have to agree to a data tracking log. For personal use/high score - it's whatever. For public leader board - I think a double check wouldn't be a bad thing. Something even a computer could over over and see if it is humanly possible to even do type thing.
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