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Quest Link - as good as a Rift?

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Sebastian is happy which is quite awesome:
    ......


    Agree an amazing review from Sebastian - and I agree with his sentiment stating this is Carmack's masterpiece in getting Link to be this strong - lets hope that others confirm the high praise. Poor old Lenovo!
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
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    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,313 Valuable Player
    ThrillSeeker says you should not upgrade from CV1 to Quest Link:



    Guess the only thing to do is flipping a coin, lol
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ThrillSeeker says you should not upgrade from CV1 to Quest Link:
    ......
    Guess the only thing to do is flipping a coin, lol

    I think we are in that frightful point in the VR community, where we have to wait for a mass of private and public evaluations before we get a honest report. There is obviously a situation that the Quest Link is a compromise, based on the original focus of dev - adding the PC element is a happy accident (in more ways than one, once we learned of how it was originated). A proper PC focused platform in competition with Index will not be forthcoming unless the market picks up on sales (no matter how deep FB's pockets), and with a new focus towards AR/MR the OculusVR PC community has all its going to get till 2022.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,850 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    RuneSR2 said:
    Sebastian is happy which is quite awesome:



    The only time I have seen Sebastian complain about a VR headset is when he reviewed the HTC Cosmos. Apart from that every other VR headset has being amazing according to him. 
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    edited November 2019
    RedRizla said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Sebastian is happy which is quite awesome:



    The only time I have seen Sebastian complain about a VR headset is when he reviewed the HTC Cosmos. Apart from that every other VR head has being amazing according to him. 

    Except for when HTC wouldn't RMA his Vive that died from sweat damage. Everything was better than a Vive after that.
  • xeno3dxeno3d Posts: 66
    Hiro Protagonist
    In my use it has been on par with the CV1 but not quite as good as the Rift S
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    Spuzzum said:
    .....
    Except for when HTC wouldn't RMA his Vive that died from sweat damage. Everything was better than a Vive after that.

    Did he not also go on a bender against Pimax after some bad dealings with their team?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    Carmack tweeted that he's working on increasing the Link's visuals, trying to use more of the USB 3.1 bandwidth. I thought the chipset's decoder itself was limited to only 150Mb/s, but apparently that can be improved. Link is only going to get better.



    https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-oculus-link-update/
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    kevinw729 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    .....
    Except for when HTC wouldn't RMA his Vive that died from sweat damage. Everything was better than a Vive after that.

    Did he not also go on a bender against Pimax after some bad dealings with their team?

    Really? Sebastian bad mouthed Pimax, his most favourite headset on the market? I definitely missed that one. As far as I knew, he has a partnership with them.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,850 Valuable Player
    Well if Oculus are just going to stick with Oculus Quests that link to a Pc  from now on. Then I really hope they make Quest 2 a lot more comfortable then the current Oculus Quest and I mean a lot more. Find some way to place the battery in the headband at the back, or at-least give it a Halo design if you can't achieve that. I think there's a Halo headband mod you can get for $58 but I forget who it's by now.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    RedRizla said:
    Well if Oculus are just going to stick with Oculus Quests that link to a Pc  from now on. Then I really hope they make Quest 2 a lot more comfortable then the current Oculus Quest and I mean a lot more. Find some way to place the battery in the headband at the back, or at-least give it a Halo design if you can't achieve that. I think there's a Halo headband mod you can get for $58 but I forget who it's by now.
    https://www.goquestvr.com/index.php/product/halo-strap/
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    Spuzzum said:
    .....
    Really? Sebastian bad mouthed Pimax, his most favourite headset on the market? I definitely missed that one. As far as I knew, he has a partnership with them.

    Ouch!
    Sorry if I got the wrong end of a comment (stick) from him - I am not a fanatic follower of his gushing, but if he is "in partnership" then thats a reason to move on to other sources. 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    kevinw729 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    .....
    Really? Sebastian bad mouthed Pimax, his most favourite headset on the market? I definitely missed that one. As far as I knew, he has a partnership with them.

    Ouch!
    Sorry if I got the wrong end of a comment (stick) from him - I am not a fanatic follower of his gushing, but if he is "in partnership" then thats a reason to move on to other sources. 

    I find Sebastian incredibly biased as it is.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,175 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ThrillSeeker says you should not upgrade from CV1 to Quest Link:
    ......
    Guess the only thing to do is flipping a coin, lol

    I think we are in that frightful point in the VR community, where we have to wait for a mass of private and public evaluations before we get a honest report. There is obviously a situation that the Quest Link is a compromise, based on the original focus of dev - adding the PC element is a happy accident (in more ways than one, once we learned of how it was originated). A proper PC focused platform in competition with Index will not be forthcoming unless the market picks up on sales (no matter how deep FB's pockets), and with a new focus towards AR/MR the OculusVR PC community has all its going to get till 2022.
    I just saw thrillseaker and agreed in most of what he said. But advising not to upgrade to rift s fron cv1, well he must of been smoking the funny stuff.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    edited November 2019
    inovator said:
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ThrillSeeker says you should not upgrade from CV1 to Quest Link:
    ......
    Guess the only thing to do is flipping a coin, lol

    I think we are in that frightful point in the VR community, where we have to wait for a mass of private and public evaluations before we get a honest report. There is obviously a situation that the Quest Link is a compromise, based on the original focus of dev - adding the PC element is a happy accident (in more ways than one, once we learned of how it was originated). A proper PC focused platform in competition with Index will not be forthcoming unless the market picks up on sales (no matter how deep FB's pockets), and with a new focus towards AR/MR the OculusVR PC community has all its going to get till 2022.
    I just saw thrillseaker and agreed in most of what he said. But advising not to upgrade to rift s fron cv1, well he must of been smoking the funny stuff.

    Personally, I find Thrillseeker jumps to conclusions far too early. Link's been out all of 7 days, still in beta, and he's already claiming it's inferior to Rift-S, before waiting until it's at least out of beta, being a fully finished product. He says Rift-S is better, yet doesn't take into account that it's IPD range only covers a certain percentage of users, meaning everyone else is either slightly blurry, or can't even wear it to begin with. It may be better for 'him', but that doesn't equal better for everyone else.

    I also had to laugh when he put out a video of how he had 'insider information' about Oculus Link. The community already knew 'something' was in the works, and he puts out a video, stating all these different scenarios that the pc connection could have been made, or even the possibility that it wouldn't happen with this Quest, but a whole new headset down the road. He basically threw out every possible scenario, to try and sell his 'insider information'. If he had insider information, they would have told him if it was wired, wireless, or planned for the next headset, and not this one. He also complains way too much, usually the only one complaining about certain things. I don't put much stock into what Thrillseeker says.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    Spuzzum said:
    ......
    If he had insider information, they would have told him if it was wired, wireless, or planned for the next headset, and not this one. He also complains way too much, usually the only one complaining about certain things. I don't put much stock into what Thrillseeker says.

    Insider information can be a two edged blade. Trying to appease and keep a source means sometimes being seen as having Emotional Investment in a particular direction - and sometimes you can be played as a safe source to tow the corporate line. I notice a lot of "insiders" are still pushing the "Rift-S is best" line in order to keep in with the message.

    The Quest Link has come out of no where - it shook up those internally and could have thrown the apple cart over regarding encouraging developers to port games to Quest. Why invest when they can just play the game on Link! Not to mention the fall out from the Lenovo reaction to the Link.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    kevinw729 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    ......
    If he had insider information, they would have told him if it was wired, wireless, or planned for the next headset, and not this one. He also complains way too much, usually the only one complaining about certain things. I don't put much stock into what Thrillseeker says.

    Insider information can be a two edged blade. Trying to appease and keep a source means sometimes being seen as having Emotional Investment in a particular direction - and sometimes you can be played as a safe source to tow the corporate line. I notice a lot of "insiders" are still pushing the "Rift-S is best" line in order to keep in with the message.

    The Quest Link has come out of no where - it shook up those internally and could have thrown the apple cart over regarding encouraging developers to port games to Quest. Why invest when they can just play the game on Link! Not to mention the fall out from the Lenovo reaction to the Link.

    It just sounded like he was throwing out every possibility, hoping something would stick. It didn't sound genuine. It sounded like a story.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    btw...it turns out Link works with Oculus Tray Tool for Super Sampling. In case anybody thought that was a deal breaker. Haven't tested it myself yet, but have been told it makes a huge difference.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,313 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    Thrillseeker also didn't provide any info about testing conditions, like the levels of ss used, fps (did he get smooth 72/80/90 fps) and much more. Same goes for Sebastian. I don't consider these YouTubers on the same level as for example Anandtech at all - but lacking better reviews and opinions their reviews may be better than short posts from users. - Although I liked @nalex66's opinion a lot, because he did make a comparison to CV1 using high levels of ss. 

    I'm used to extremely high levels of image quality using Index ss 2.0 (SteamVR res 200% = 17 mill pixels per image) in several games like Pistol Whip, Curious Tale of Stolen Pets, SteamVR Home, Lucky's Tale and much more (where I get solid 90 fps) - and although CV1 ss 2.0 isn't at all the same, I really like - and enjoy - using CV1 ss 2.0. In games like Stormland I don't think the image quality is much worse than the Index ss 1.4 (SteamVR res 100%), in fact I often consider CV1 better (it fools my brain better due to SDE making low-res textures look much more high-res - like in for example Kobold). Yesterday I compared Pistol Whip and Curious Tale of Stolen Pets, Index res 200% vs. CV1 ss 2.0, and of course Index is better, but CV1 still looks and plays great - and in those games I don't notice SDE a lot, it's more the fov and the res. 
    For Quest Link to be considered an upgrade to my CV1, it has to greatly impress compared to CV1 ss 2.0, and I don't see that happening right now - but Oculus Link is still in beta.
    To me Oculus Link - for now - primarily gives me hope of being able to get a great oled experience in dark games in case my CV1 should fail and need to be replaced. I only use CV1 for  special games, of course that's a different situation than having to use CV1 for everything.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,995 Valuable Player
    Quest with Link works surprisingly well. Once one gets it working, can be tricky getting a USB 3 Port to work well with it - best to use one that has no other devices on it's hub.
    I find the quality of the image in between CV1 and Rift S. Performance I was also surprised by, was very decent even in a couple of demanding combat flight sims.
    Comfort, for me certainly not as good as my Rift S. Little more SDE than my Rift S.

     Whilst I have enjoyed playing some games the last couple of days on my Quest with Link, for PC-VR games I will be using my Rift S, to me just a better overall experience. Games with a lot of dark scenes though like Vader Immortal I will probably use the Quest with Link.

    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,244 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    Well I think it is obvious from all the comments and reviews that it really isn't worth upgrading from the CV1 for me to anything at the moment (even the Index) unless you are desperate for mobile VR gaming. 

    I don't doubt there are improvements in certain areas but I'll just sit and wait for a model to appear that is a worthy upgrade.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 4,313 Valuable Player
    edited November 2019
    Well I think it is obvious from all the comments and reviews that it really isn't worth upgrading from the CV1 for me to anything at the moment (even the Index) unless you are desperate for mobile VR gaming. 

    I don't doubt there are improvements in certain areas but I'll just sit and wait for a model to appear that is a worthy upgrade.
    The CV1 is art, it carries a massive legacy, it should be worn with pride!  ;)

    The more I use the Index the more it shows what a fantastic product the CV1 is when it comes to tracking, sound, image quality, weight and comfort! Also everything works after more than 2 years of intensive use, Touch controllers are like new.

    Just read some Reddit dude complaining about CV1 being blurry, sounds like another ss 1.0 user, I've never considered CV1 blurry, but prone to SDE and limited res - then again I've used ss 2.0 since Lone Echo arrived in 2017.

    Guess I might be slightly biased, and CV1 nearly feels like an integrated part of my body, lol. Index is the sports car you use for special occasions, CV1 is the transport for everyday driving, because CV1 works with everything - may even be my favorite for Borderlands 2, the SDE is a great friend to low-res textures  B)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,681
    Project 2501
    On the X Plane 11 VR forum more and more guys are finding that the Quest w/Link is giving much poorer results than with their Rift  cv1.  Main reasons, poor resolution (even with SS, which does not seem to do much) and lower FPS.

    So if you plan to upgrade your cv1 for a a Quest w/ Link and use X Plane 11, you may want to think twice about doing so.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, Vive Wireless.

  • geebee666geebee666 Posts: 224
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2019
    Spuzzum said:
    Carmack tweeted that he's working on increasing the Link's visuals, trying to use more of the USB 3.1 bandwidth. I thought the chipset's decoder itself was limited to only 150Mb/s, but apparently that can be improved. Link is only going to get better.



    https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-oculus-link-update/
    Note "I am hoping to add" that is no guarantee and it is less positive wording than the Go's USB drive that never eventuated. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,175 Valuable Player
    Well I think it is obvious from all the comments and reviews that it really isn't worth upgrading from the CV1 for me to anything at the moment (even the Index) unless you are desperate for mobile VR gaming. 

    I don't doubt there are minor improvements but I'll just sit and wait for a model to appear that is a worthy upgrade.
    It goes to show that all that matters is what is important to the individual. For me I cant even imagine going back to the rift after using my rift s for months. If I didn't use the rift s I wouldn't miss it and would have no problem sticking with rift. But you have a good point that to go to the cv1 to the quest, I wouldn't do either. In that case the improvement for me wouldn't be enough.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,906 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    On the X Plane 11 VR forum more and more guys are finding that the Quest w/Link is giving much poorer results than with their Rift  cv1.  Main reasons, poor resolution (even with SS, which does not seem to do much) and lower FPS.

    So if you plan to upgrade your cv1 for a a Quest w/ Link and use X Plane 11, you may want to think twice about doing so.

    Yes, have been following this and other forums response - as  in the original post, the failure to properly manage expectations and a hands-off approach to support is exacerbating this situation. We are seeing a similar concern on how the Oculus Go was promoted during the Black Friday sales, and that complaints being seen from people thinking they were buying a Quest-Like system, are growing (buyer be ware). The lack of communication and a stand-off nature to managing expectations can be a dangerous cocktail.

    I hope that Carmack in his final days can come up with more of his magic, but I do wonder if there is only so much that can be done, and that the reality is that the 835 has had its day and is not powerful enough to support the backbone.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 843
    3Jane
    edited December 2019
    geebee666 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    Carmack tweeted that he's working on increasing the Link's visuals, trying to use more of the USB 3.1 bandwidth. I thought the chipset's decoder itself was limited to only 150Mb/s, but apparently that can be improved. Link is only going to get better.



    https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-oculus-link-update/
    Note "I am hoping to add" that is no guarantee and it is less positive wording than the Go's USB drive that never eventuated. 

    I have more faith than that. Yes, we'd love the usb storage feature on the Go, but being able to decode at a higher bitrate is far more important, and useful, and most likely will happen if he can get it done.

    edit: It could also be that Carmack stated a usb stick uses 1W of power. That might have been an issue.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,244 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Quest 2 second half of next year????

    "In Q1 2020, Qualcomm plans to introduce the latest version of their XR reference headset based on XR2, which the company offers up as a blueprint for headset makers through its HMD Accelerator Program. Qualcomm expects that the first commercial headsets to launch with XR2 will come in the second half of 2020."

    https://www.roadtovr.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-xr2-5g-announcement/?fbclid=IwAR1xuLAtQwb_3Qh1_RcUpEo0pY1ytOVKXcpWPwMRrpTdRq4gtkC3qDrANqw

  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 633
    Neo
    ^^500 quatloos on the Q2 having a dedicated HDMI and USB port. ;)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,850 Valuable Player
    Quest 2 second half of next year????

    "In Q1 2020, Qualcomm plans to introduce the latest version of their XR reference headset based on XR2, which the company offers up as a blueprint for headset makers through its HMD Accelerator Program. Qualcomm expects that the first commercial headsets to launch with XR2 will come in the second half of 2020."

    https://www.roadtovr.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-xr2-5g-announcement/?fbclid=IwAR1xuLAtQwb_3Qh1_RcUpEo0pY1ytOVKXcpWPwMRrpTdRq4gtkC3qDrANqw


    VR will definitely tackoff if this happens. 3K x 3K per eye is what VR needs, if I'm reading correctly. Hopefully Oculus won't screw it up by making an uncomfortable VR headset though.
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