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So... is VR Mainstream yet??

ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,759 Valuable Player
edited December 2019 in General
For those who have been around since the CV1 release (and even those around for the DK1 days), you've probably noticed that the question of VR being mainstream has been asked every single year. Even now as we approach the year 2020, the question is still posed across various VR discussion groups.

From my perspective, this forum has always reflected the current state of VR as a whole (not just the state of Oculus and Facebook VR).

There's no denying that with the release of Quest and the Link, now more than ever on this forum's history has so much daily high-traffic discussion transpired. For me personally, I am enjoying going from a daily contributor to a passive lurker of the ongoing discussions.

With that in mind, I figured now might be another fun time to ask the question: Is VR finally mainstream? Or is there more to go?

This is meant to be posed as a light-hearted question/discussion. Not fuel any sort of negative rhetoric or debate.
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So... is VR Mainstream yet?? 65 votes

Yes, VR is officially mainstream.
4%
vannagirlRosgilliesAmerican.DJ1985disco 3 votes
No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
35%
logotomieProtocol7jayhawkRorschachPhoenixShadowmask72LitespeedsnowdoginovatorPrzemo-cfalken76DanniegodburnePhoenixSpyderRichooalPic0oJake_DragonTomCgcmfcmorsifysteue79Kentobi 23 votes
Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
55%
Nekto2Hiro_Protag0nistRedRizlabigmike20vtBro3epnalex66DaftnDirectpjennessLuluViBritanniaCobreeanTechy111SkScotcheggTadinZenbaneMachendillohgrantDTHShocksVROrodreth16pyroth309 36 votes
I dunno.
4%
BeastyBaiterRimethLumilukko 3 votes
«1

Comments

  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 1,681
    Project 2501
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Total PCVR user numbers don’t appear to me to be increasing fast enough right now.  Probably mainly due to the continued high cost of entry.  Also, it seems to me that the pace of development has slowed down quite a bit.  None of this fairs well for mainstream status in the near future (1-3 years) imho.

    Custom built gaming desktop; i9 9900k (water cooled) oc to 5ghz, gtx 1080 ti (from my old AGA), 32 gb 3000hz ram, 1 tb ssd, 4 tb hdd.  Asus  ROG Maximus xi hero wifi mb, StarTech 4 port/4 controller sata powered usb3.0 pcie card, Asus VG248QE 1080p 144hz gaming monitor, Oculus Rift cv1 w/2x sensors, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, Vive Wireless.

  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    Personally I think we are close. It's not hard to read about VR on a daily basis. There are new headsets in the works. Hardcore PCVR users may think differently but untethered is taking off no end. DK1 and 2 days were fun and looking back on all the days weeks and months we had on here waiting for the CV1 to drop in our laps was awesome lol Nearly all the big sims support VR and MS2020 has been given a wake up call regarding VR and now that is planned. The word is spreading and it's not slowing IMO I am still hyped for VR and damned excited for the future, just hope I don't get too old for it ;) (never)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,396 Volunteer Moderator
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    I was hovering between far from it and almost, but I've plumped for almost, that may be my optimistic side, but the truth is maybe half way between those two.

    Not sure what else Oculus can do to push take-up and I'd really like to know Quest sales figures cos that's probably where mainstream is going to happen. Getting indications from future Steam surveys (via Link) I think will be problematic with the Quest as it's probably much less likely to remain permanently plugged into a PC compared with any other headset (assuming it's identified as a Quest, not a Rift).

    Facebook Horizon looks interesting and I wonder if increased shared social experiences with more varied and imaginative things to do together in VR are what's going to provide the next push. I use my brother as an example of the average non-VR adopter and wonder what extra would be needed to get him to get a headset... and tbh I don't think it's going to take much more. Perhaps if Horizon were to allow access via phone or tablet to give non-headset owners a taste of what we're enjoying. You could share your Spaces with phone users so maybe that will be a thing.

    If he hasn't bought one by the end of next year I'll damn well buy him one!
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  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,887 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    I wouldn't say it's mainstream yet, Quest might help it get there.  Right now it feels like the 3d printer market.  Everyone knows they're out there, but most people don't know anyone that owns them.  Some of the newbs that get ahold of them have issues with motion sickness like a 3d printer user would have issues with plate adhesion for the filament.  The frustration insues and the unit either gets returned or relegated to the garage or closet until it is sold on an online venue or a yard sale.  That's where I think VR is right now.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,005 Valuable Player
    Yes, VR is officially mainstream.
    Youtube is now full of adverts for VR. So my stream atleast, says yes.
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,174 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Its definitely heading in the right direction. I'm seeing more commercials  and tv shows  showing vr
     I loved when a popular 30 minute network tv comedy  had at least three times with the oculus quest shown.
  • RichooalRichooal Posts: 1,340
    Project 2501
    edited December 2019
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    noun: mainstream
    the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are shared by most people and regarded as normal or conventional.

    Going by the above description of mainstream, VR is nowhere near being mainstream. Even among gamers (and games are what sell VR units), uptake is still only sitting below 2%.

    VR is fun, interesting and worth following (for me) but I can't see it being mainstream for a looong time to come.
    The major problem with it for me is that it attempts to remove me from reality, and give me something I can't normally have. That's all well and good, but it leaves me isolated from others in the same house. It reminds me of people sitting at a table using their phones to be "social" with everyone except the people they're sitting with.

    I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that we shouldn't expect everything to become mainstream just because we think it should. Maybe VR will just always be a popular thing but not for everyone.

    i5 6600k - GTX1060 - 8GB RAM - Rift CV1 + 3 Senors - 0 PROBLEMS
    Dear Oculus, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", please.

  • Pic0oPic0o Posts: 33
    Brain Burst
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    I'd say it's getting a little more pop culture, but certainly not mainstream.  As noted, cost of entry, major sellers for other people to dive in, and currently small (in scale) user base.  I jumped in around July 2017 and while I really enjoy it, I am pretty rare in many circles as a VR user.

    I certainly feel like there will need to be a few more, huge VR titles that push this into the public spectrum, well gaming space and content review.  After a few more hardware generations and some strides in software, I can totally see it pushing into mainstream.  Particularly as a platform for communication, tele-presence or something along those lines.

    Scope of reference, look at that new Facebook Horizon app.  Notice how the video demo (not in-game footage) is like super reactive avatars, but the in-game content is low poly rendered non-responsive avatars?  Actual presence as the not-in-game footage shows, would be something to bump the mainstream folks into VR.

    I love VR but it is still extremely niche at this point.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,106 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    Somewhere half way between almost and far from it..... So went the optimistic choice.

    Oculus with the quest have pretty much checked every box for lowering the bar so anyone who is interested have an affordable avenue into reasonable quality VR. IF VR fails now, I dont think anyone can say Oculus didnt give it their best shot.

    (For PC VR - mobile as well i suppose but oculus are so far ahead on that front that its easy to forget other platforms) one of the biggest hurdles to get past now imo is fragmentation, So long as it remains unofficial hacks to get some software to work imo some people will be reticent to jump in.  Hopefully that will get resolved over the next few years
    (no one wants to be owning the betamax or HDDVD** system)
    Giving the quest a Rift mode is a huge win for everyone however.
    That said PCVR isnt where the mass market is going to go, quest and PSVR are going to be the big sellers, although I think PCVR will be a big enough niche to do well - if they can unify compatibility of software.

    edit.. it does depend on your view of mainstream.... if it means like TV almost ubiquitous in every home then we are a long way off... but if it means like a steering wheel or HOTAS system then that is much closer - again I chose the more optimistic choice between the 2 fairly large extremes.. 

    **I still have my 2 devices.


    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,876 Valuable Player
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    I'm just looking at friends, family and kids of friends.  Many have bought a Quest.  I think Quest sales will continue and if Playstation does well I think VR will continue to grow.

    I do wish Microsoft gave it a push with a headset for the new Xbox too though.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,106 Valuable Player
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    Microsoft's decision to ignore vr on console is strange because
    1) they already have the hardware
    2) they have the software
    but the big one
    3) There are imo very few reasons to actually buy an xbox over a playstation as it is......in terms of games in general the exclusive titles to playstation are far bigger hitters than on xbox (this is even more so the case if you have a PC as xbox console barely has any full exclusives).

    supporting VR on the xbox"two" from launch could have been a nice hook for the console..... Windows MR devices may be a bit hit and miss compared to PCVR.... but compared to PSVR it is head and shoulders better. It would have been 1 area where - at least until Sony bring out a PSVR2 which isnt happening at launch - that the xbox console would have a clear advantage over playstation.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,876 Valuable Player
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    Totally agree bigmike.  If Microsoft do not come up with something, then Playstation have that extra something for another 6 years.  Doesn't really make sense.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,174 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Somewhere half way between almost and far from it..... So went the optimistic choice.

    Oculus with the quest have pretty much checked every box for lowering the bar so anyone who is interested have an affordable avenue into reasonable quality VR. IF VR fails now, I dont think anyone can say Oculus didnt give it their best shot.

    (For PC VR - mobile as well i suppose but oculus are so far ahead on that front that its easy to forget other platforms) one of the biggest hurdles to get past now imo is fragmentation, So long as it remains unofficial hacks to get some software to work imo some people will be reticent to jump in.  Hopefully that will get resolved over the next few years
    (no one wants to be owning the betamax or HDDVD** system)
    Giving the quest a Rift mode is a huge win for everyone however.
    That said PCVR isnt where the mass market is going to go, quest and PSVR are going to be the big sellers, although I think PCVR will be a big enough niche to do well - if they can unify compatibility of software.

    edit.. it does depend on your view of mainstream.... if it means like TV almost ubiquitous in every home then we are a long way off... but if it means like a steering wheel or HOTAS system then that is much closer - again I chose the more optimistic choice between the 2 fairly large extremes.. 

    **I still have my 2 devices.


    Great points.i have said very early on PC vr isnt the big picture and almost got burnt to the steak..the index with its outside tracking is the betamax. I strongly believe quest 2 will also be rift 2 but the stand alone part will be used much more. I think that pcvr wireless capabilities being built in the headset in the future will help pcvr.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,106 Valuable Player
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    inovator said:

    Great points.i have said very early on PC vr isnt the big picture and almost got burnt to the steak..the index with its outside tracking is the betamax. I strongly believe quest 2 will also be rift 2 but the stand alone part will be used much more. I think that pcvr wireless capabilities being built in the headset in the future will help pcvr.
    My hope is eventually all store fronts will support multiple headsets, which will mean there will be no betamax devices in VR.  (its often as not the superior hardware which fails to gain traction as well....... Betamax was arguably a superior system to VHS)

    I certainly hope the Index does not become a dead end.  Whilst I totally get that affordable VR is necessary for VR to take off, I am myself more interested in high end devices. It may be that I end up having to get an Index or equivalent myself. Either way I really dont want to be the owner of another dead end tech (To go with my HDDVD units and my Amiga CD32 and videologic PVR game accelerator)

    But my hopes are irrelevant, just the fear from some of the potential to end up with a dead end device - or a games collection full of software they cant use down the line which will stop some from getting on the VR hype train.

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,148 Volunteer Moderator
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    I think VR is on the cusp of being mainstream... not in the sense that it's in every household, but in the sense of being common in the public consciousness. Between interest in Half-Life:Alyx and vigorous Quest sales, I think a lot of new people are taking the plunge into VR now, and many more are seriously considering it. It feels like we're reaching critical mass.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,234 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Nope. Not yet. We're only at the end of the first stage of mainstream VR adoption, the Enthusiast Gamer stage. The Mainstream Gamer stage started when Sony released PSVR.

    For the Mainstream Gamer stage to start to gain any sort of traction we need Microsoft to jump into VR with their NextBox. We're partway there thanks to Sony bringing VR to the PlayStation and investing loads of money into game development but big name publishers and their developers need numbers to start bringing the likes of GTA, Assassin's Creed, CoD etc to VR.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,972 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Those in the yellow corner are living in la la land. No matter how well they can theorise the current state-of-play. VR might be more visible in the public domain (yes lots of pushing from Team Oculus only unfortunately in Youtube ads) but so is Donald Trump & Boris Johnson. A shame there's been no VR ads for HL:Alyx and the Index. VR can only be regarded as mainstream (in my expert opinion :p ) when everyone or most people have a VR headset that they use above anything else for X number of use cases (such as gaming). Just like how most people now have mobile phones they use instead of the landline or phone booth.

    On the other side, developers need to see the platform as viable, not a money pit. We're miles away from that. Look at how 2D games have game announcements years before they release. The same cannot be said for any VR games.

    All these factors need to be in place before VR can achieve mainstream status when everyone wants or has a headset/glasses/brain implant.


    Lower cost of entry
    wireless
    as good if not better quality than TV
    Social
    Lightweight form-factor like wearing sunglasses or specs
    Comfortable for prolonged use.
    Lots of ENTICING software and apps to choose from

    I am being light-hearted and not intentionally fuelling any sort of negative rhetoric or debate.

    Blue corner wins here yellow and purple opinions suck! But we're all part of the little mans VR club right now.

     :cold_sweat:




    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,845 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    I was hovering between far from it and almost, but I've plumped for almost, that may be my optimistic side, but the truth is maybe half way between those two.


    I agree with this. I don't think it is very close or too far away from becoming main stream. I think the next round of headsets like Oculus Quest 2, will push it to being mainstream. I see it becoming very popular within 5 years, especially after seeing the new Mobile VR chip that is being made for VR. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,174 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    inovator said:

    Great points.i have said very early on PC vr isnt the big picture and almost got burnt to the steak..the index with its outside tracking is the betamax. I strongly believe quest 2 will also be rift 2 but the stand alone part will be used much more. I think that pcvr wireless capabilities being built in the headset in the future will help pcvr.
    My hope is eventually all store fronts will support multiple headsets, which will mean there will be no betamax devices in VR.  (its often as not the superior hardware which fails to gain traction as well....... Betamax was arguably a superior system to VHS)

    I certainly hope the Index does not become a dead end.  Whilst I totally get that affordable VR is necessary for VR to take off, I am myself more interested in high end devices. It may be that I end up having to get an Index or equivalent myself. Either way I really dont want to be the owner of another dead end tech (To go with my HDDVD units and my Amiga CD32 and videologic PVR game accelerator)

    But my hopes are irrelevant, just the fear from some of the potential to end up with a dead end device - or a games collection full of software they cant use down the line which will stop some from getting on the VR hype train.

    I dont know if you remember why betamax failed. Its interesting. I chose the VCR because the recording time on betamax was only 2 hours. I loved the 6 hours that vcr allowed. If index had inside out tracking that would be a buy for me. 
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,148 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2019
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    ...VR can only be regarded as mainstream (in my expert opinion :p ) when everyone or most people have a VR headset that they use above anything else for X number of use cases (such as gaming). Just like how most people now have mobile phones they use instead of the landline or phone booth.
    So I guess game consoles are not mainstream then? I don't have the statistics at hand, but I don't think every household has an Xbox or PS4 in it.
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  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,972 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    You are taking one part of my sentence rather than the whole part.  You are correct not every home has a games console or a PC. But every gaming household has either a console, PC or other device to play games. Gaming is now considered a mainstream activity.  You ignored the part about X number of use cases. Lots of gaming households in fact, most don't own a VR headset.


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,759 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
     But every gaming household has either a console, PC or other device to play games.

    You just changed your original premise, my friend. Based on your new argument, we could then state the following:
    But every VR household has either a mobileVR, consoleVR, or PCVR device to engage in VR.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,148 Volunteer Moderator
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    So then VR IS mainstream... among VR households!
    i7 5820K @ 4.25GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,972 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    Both your comments are 100% correct. My point was not many households that "game" have a VR headset.My argument is then, although gaming is mainstream, VR within gaming is not.


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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,234 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    inovator said:
    inovator said:

    Great points.i have said very early on PC vr isnt the big picture and almost got burnt to the steak..the index with its outside tracking is the betamax. I strongly believe quest 2 will also be rift 2 but the stand alone part will be used much more. I think that pcvr wireless capabilities being built in the headset in the future will help pcvr.
    My hope is eventually all store fronts will support multiple headsets, which will mean there will be no betamax devices in VR.  (its often as not the superior hardware which fails to gain traction as well....... Betamax was arguably a superior system to VHS)

    I certainly hope the Index does not become a dead end.  Whilst I totally get that affordable VR is necessary for VR to take off, I am myself more interested in high end devices. It may be that I end up having to get an Index or equivalent myself. Either way I really dont want to be the owner of another dead end tech (To go with my HDDVD units and my Amiga CD32 and videologic PVR game accelerator)

    But my hopes are irrelevant, just the fear from some of the potential to end up with a dead end device - or a games collection full of software they cant use down the line which will stop some from getting on the VR hype train.

    I dont know if you remember why betamax failed. Its interesting. I chose the VCR because the recording time on betamax was only 2 hours. I loved the 6 hours that vcr allowed. If index had inside out tracking that would be a buy for me. 

    Betamax failed for two main reasons. Firstly because it was more expensive. And secondly, and more importantly, the porn industry adopted VHS as the standard.

    Betamax systems were still selling to TV stations until they went entirely digital because it was a FAR superior system, particularly when it came to sound.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,759 Valuable Player
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    although gaming is mainstream, VR within gaming is not.

    I'm okay with that. VR needs to be used for more than just gaming.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • PluckeyOnePluckeyOne Posts: 27
    Brain Burst
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    I would say for VR to be mainstream it would have to be the primary way for gamers to game. In other words it can't be mainstream if pancake gamers are out numbering VR gamers more than 2:1. As VR is still at 1% I don't see it going mainstream for another 6 years or two more generations of HMD design. But VR seriously needs to ramp up sales if its going to be successful in 6 years. If VR carries on at its current rate of growth it could well take another 20 years to go mainstream if lack of interest hasn't killed it before then.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,759 Valuable Player
    edited December 2019
    Almost! VR's mainstream status is getting very close.
    I would say for VR to be mainstream it would have to be the primary way for gamers to game. In other words it can't be mainstream if pancake gamers are out numbering VR gamers more than 2:1.

    I've always disagreed with the notion than VR needs to dominate as a gaming platform, since VR offers so much more than gaming. It benefits other sectors/industries: Real-Estate, Healthcare, Military, Enterprise.

    It's entirely possible for pancake gaming to outpace VR gaming and still have VR as a mainstream technology. Just look at the disparity between console, PC, and mobile gaming. These are all mainstream gaming technologies, yet Mobile gaming has sold more than both console and PC combined. That doesn't mean that consoles and PCs are no longer mainstream since they are both outpaced by mobile devices 2:1.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,174 Valuable Player
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    It's just simple numbers. If enough people by the tech consistantly than its mainstream.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 258
    Nexus 6
    No, VR is not mainstream. Far from it.
    -From a gaming perspective...to state just a few givens, VR would need to be better than any high frame rate monitor and do things visually better than anything that can be done on a monitor - currently 'a no go'...and a long way away from it. Even though VR does bring new experiences that can't be done on a monitor, many people just don't want to put something on their head or experience the vomit inducing experiences that are currently present with the tech. There are a lot of biased people who just don't want to try it or see it a gimic or a passing fad. That's a lot of hurtles to overcome!!!

    -from an industry perspective, there is a lot potential here and much is happening but the tech is either to expensive presently or there is not enough interest as of yet. There is already parts of movies where VR is used to create what is to be seen. There is already other technology being created in VR due to the hands on experience, but this type of VR is very expensive. Real Estate, Porn industry are a few others where VR will make the experience for each that much better but still only a small amount of users compared to other types.

    -as a developer, Vr has a long way to go before overtaking pancake, even though dev'ing in VR is a blast. I'm thinking...maybe...5 years away from becoming mainstream (but still not overtaking pancake), probably more though.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 32 GB Corsair Veng DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, 1TB M.2 SSD, Adata Su800 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, BarraCuda 2TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1909
    "Presently developing a VR project (outside of my profession) due to the lack of availability of what I would like to experience" Details in a year or two...
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