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Leak Reveals New OculusVR Standalone Prototype!

kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
edited March 2020 in General

Facebook Leaks Codename For ‘Del Mar’ Standalone Headset With ‘Jedi Controller’


https://uploadvr.com/oculus-del-mar-quest-2/



Will there be a CV2 for the Rift also in the works? Or is Link the solution?
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Comments

  • dburnedburne Posts: 4,424 Valuable Player
    Interesting.
    Personally I don't think we will see a CV2.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,195 Volunteer Moderator
    If we think about "jedi", how do they relate to input devices?
    - Jedi perform force powers using a wave of their hand, which could indicate this is a hand tracking device.
    - Jedi use a light saber, so it could be a physical controller.

    Facebook bought Ctrl-labs, a company that developed a wristband that turns impulses in your arm's nerves into input, which sounds like the former option.

    Then again, Facebook also own Beat Games. So... maybe the Del Mar is a headset made for Beat Saber with a light saber shaped controller. :):)
    I mean it's not that crazy, considering this exists: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/jedichallenges



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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    ....
    - Jedi use a light saber, so it could be a physical controller.
    .....


    Yes was wondering about this, could this be OculusVR's answer to the Lenovo SW system [image]?


  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,195 Volunteer Moderator
    Yeah, I was mostly joking but also a little serious. Beat Saber is such a massive hit for VR and Facebook owns it, having a controller called Jedi seems a little too coincidental.
    They did make that Rock Band VR adapter as part of the Touch bundle, a custom addon for a single game.

    Urgh, I hope they aren't going to make something like a Vive wand!

    Others have suggested that maybe the name Del Mar is hinting at AR. But that seems like a stretch.

    Hmm, another wild guess: maybe the controller is called Jedi because it's using a different tracking system. This might be electro-magnetic, so tracking would be like feeling a disturbance in the force.

    Or it might end up just being the Go 2 and Jedi is the name for the new remote. :)

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    ......
    Others have suggested that maybe the name Del Mar is hinting at AR. But that seems like a stretch.
    .......

    I have heard the AR suggestions - or should that be MR?
    I would not be surprised to see the combination of the Quest and the Facebook AR headset in a single package. It has been rumored for some time that FB was ready to launch their platform.

    To see some one mention RockBandVR on this forum is amazing after so long and all the problems. Well done. Regarding this being a Go 2... nah.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,195 Volunteer Moderator
    At work we keep the touch controllers in the original box. That damn adapter always gets in the way every time I try to close the lid (it's little cardboard holder is torn and it doesn't stay in it) so I can never forget the useless thing! :)

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,408 Valuable Player
    edited March 2020
    kevinw729 said:
    kojack said:
    ....
    - Jedi use a light saber, so it could be a physical controller.
    .....


    Yes was wondering about this, could this be OculusVR's answer to the Lenovo SW system [image]?


    Probably more like  :D

    Image result for vr playstation controllers

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 961 Evo M.2 SSD 128GB (for OS) + Samsung EVO 860 4TB SSD (for games) + Toshiba P300 High-Performance HDD 3TB (for games); Win10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1, the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0.

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 5,008 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    If we think about "jedi", how do they relate to input devices?
    - Jedi perform force powers using a wave of their hand, which could indicate this is a hand tracking device.
    - Jedi use a light saber, so it could be a physical controller.

    Facebook bought Ctrl-labs, a company that developed a wristband that turns impulses in your arm's nerves into input, which sounds like the former option.

    Then again, Facebook also own Beat Games. So... maybe the Del Mar is a headset made for Beat Saber with a light saber shaped controller. :):)
    I mean it's not that crazy, considering this exists: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/jedichallenges




    100% - why would they not have hand tracking in future HMDs?  


    Excited, I am    B)
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,721 Valuable Player
    edited March 2020
    What if Jedi is not linked to Star Wars and Disney but is an acronym? OK points for the most imaginative acronym theory :)

    Johnson
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    Input

    I am even more excited now :)
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 374
    Trinity
    edited March 2020
    @kevinw729 said:
    I would not be surprised to see the combination of the Quest and the Facebook AR headset in a single package. It has been rumored for some time that FB was ready to launch their platform.
    :) Would be great to have both VR+AR with standalong.
    But it should include high resolution color camera (even single one like in smartphones).
    That will help to make high detiled 3D scans of surrounding place or object.
    Just imagine you are in VR/AR and could switch from real room to 3D scan of that same room. But you could walk around and come close to 3D glitches so HD  camera will take more real world photos from that place and fix 3D scan realtime.
    So you will actually "paint" a 3D world copy.
    That could be some historical place or nice natural cave.
    Just imagine lot's of people taking their travel "3D worlds" and posting them on the internet! :D
    Same way they do now with smartphones and built in photo camera.
    People will see how useful HMD actually is!  (same with smartphones now)

    And if they include 2,3...5 HD cameras same way as they do for current smatphone..... with 10,20,30...Mpx that will make them profit next 20 years (just upgrading each year to new X Mpx and Z cameras).
    :D
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,111 Valuable Player
    We're YEARS away from seeing a VR/AR combo headset at an affordable price. The AR tech is still way too expensive and it will cost a fortune.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    We're YEARS away from seeing a VR/AR combo headset at an affordable price. The AR tech is still way too expensive and it will cost a fortune.

    I would have said at the beginning of the year that we were a lot closer than you may think, but currently, gauging home much of a backlog we will be suffering for the next few months if not years, its harder to say. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,111 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    We're YEARS away from seeing a VR/AR combo headset at an affordable price. The AR tech is still way too expensive and it will cost a fortune.

    I would have said at the beginning of the year that we were a lot closer than you may think, but currently, gauging home much of a backlog we will be suffering for the next few months if not years, its harder to say. 

    We're really not that close. AR headset production is probably in the same state that VR headset production was 2 years before the DK1 was released.

    The technology is there, but it's nowhere near cheap enough to produce a decent commercial headset at a reasonable price. Just take a look at the retail prices of the HoloLens and HoloLens 2 as a prime example. Other AR headsets are in a similar boat.

    We're probably 2 years away from having a decent commercially viable AR headset, and another 2 years after that for a VR and AR combination headset.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    That is my point @snowdog - "the technology is there"!
    I was lucky enough to have a technical demo of a MR system using most of these basic principles last year, on a project that had planned to launch this year, but that has now been scuppered. I think we are close to having a system that can achieve the full VR full AR hybrid - and was impressed what it means to my sector. Sadly the price is prohibitive so I do not expect a consumer system for some two years, so possibly this meets your observation.  
  • jabjab Posts: 314
    Trinity
    Judging from Quest and Rift-S, I would say Oculus is much more interested in keeping the cost low then pushing new high end features.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    edited March 2020
    jab said:
    Judging from Quest and Rift-S, I would say Oculus is much more interested in keeping the cost low then pushing new high end features.

    Agree jab, I think it was difficult for the PCVR community to come to terms with the fact that after the management restructuring Facebook were now directing Oculus down a "cost-reduced" "feature rich" direction for their hardware. The Quest fundamentally is were Facebook sees future business, the Lenovo relationship was to keep some skin in the PCVR game. And as we have learned from Lenovo's move to support Varjo this may have been a short lived partnership. 

    The consumer VR scene may not be the place anymore for expensive innovation, with the restoring of the natural and usual reality of as trickle-down from Enterprise tech into consumer, will resume.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,195 Volunteer Moderator
    More info.

    Oculus has accidentally shipped a driver for Jedi in the Quest firmware. UploadVR has reverse engineered it a bit.
    Here's what they found:
    - same controls as Touch (buttons, etc)
    - IR tracking running at double the rate of the Quest/Rift-S
    - Higher quality IMU with less noise
    - A new haptics system
    - Analog capacitive finger sensing

    So it currently seems like Jedi is an improved Touch. It's possible Del Mar may therefore be an upgraded Quest.

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  • uKERuKER Posts: 176
    Art3mis
    edited April 2020
    Am I the only one that when reading "Jedi" thinks more about mind control than lightsabers?
    Both Elon Musk and Gabe Newell are working on it. Would Facebook let itself fall behind?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    My ex was better than Elon Musk and Gabe Newell will ever be... just the slightest look was enough to control my movements/appetite/libido.
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  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 973
    Neo
    My ex was better than Elon Musk and Gabe Newell will ever be... just the slightest look was enough to control my movements/appetite/libido.
    she controlled your mind, i see. a woman who controls minds loses her mind and she lost you 
  • RichooalRichooal Posts: 2,061 Valuable Player
    edited April 2020
    kevinw729 said:

    Will there be a CV2 for the Rift also in the works? Or is Link the solution?

    Given that Rift S was handed over to Lenovo, and pretty much all software development has gone to Quest, Link and social stuff, and all the original Oculus PCVR champions have left Oculus.................. I reckon Rift has been cut adRift.

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    Richooal said:
    ....
    Given that Rift S was handed over to Lenovo, and pretty much all software development has gone to Quest, Link and social stuff, and all the original Oculus PCVR champions have left Oculus.................. I reckon Rift has been cut adRift.



    That seems to have been the opinion by all the smart money @Richooal (saw what you did there)!

    To put some more context on it - Oculus has not given up on PCVR, but has allowed the development team leads for Rift2 and on Half Dome and Half Dome 3 to move on to other jobs, cut PC based development investment, and handed over the majority of PCVR support (for the now only platform the Rift-S). What little PCVR support is focused on the work needed on Quest and Quest2 Link cable compliance, and the issues of performance and acceptance. 

    While it would seem that the lip service remaining is to ensure that the exodus from the original PCVR loyalists, and Rift (CV1) owners remains, so avoiding image assassination if they left them high and dry.  The ability to roll out a Half Dome 4 demonstration at OC7 will be also a good publicity point-score.

    For the Oculus-loyalist remaining - the realization of the lack of a true CV2 in the medium term sunk in back in 2019, with the exodus of many of the usual suspects to other platforms, or just content to continue using their CV1 hardware, or attempt to extol the Rift-S, ignoring its issues. The surprisingly quiet nature of forums like this and the Oculus closed developers forum on FB, are example of the eventual acceptance of the situation by the once vocal aspects of the scene - as they just enjoy using their VR tech in lockdown, rather than talking about it!
  • dburnedburne Posts: 4,424 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    Richooal said:
    ....
    Given that Rift S was handed over to Lenovo, and pretty much all software development has gone to Quest, Link and social stuff, and all the original Oculus PCVR champions have left Oculus.................. I reckon Rift has been cut adRift.



    That seems to have been the opinion by all the smart money @Richooal (saw what you did there)!

    To put some more context on it - Oculus has not given up on PCVR, but has allowed the development team leads for Rift2 and on Half Dome and Half Dome 3 to move on to other jobs, cut PC based development investment, and handed over the majority of PCVR support (for the now only platform the Rift-S). What little PCVR support is focused on the work needed on Quest and Quest2 Link cable compliance, and the issues of performance and acceptance. 

    While it would seem that the lip service remaining is to ensure that the exodus from the original PCVR loyalists, and Rift (CV1) owners remains, so avoiding image assassination if they left them high and dry.  The ability to roll out a Half Dome 4 demonstration at OC7 will be also a good publicity point-score.

    For the Oculus-loyalist remaining - the realization of the lack of a true CV2 in the medium term sunk in back in 2019, with the exodus of many of the usual suspects to other platforms, or just content to continue using their CV1 hardware, or attempt to extol the Rift-S, ignoring its issues. The surprisingly quiet nature of forums like this and the Oculus closed developers forum on FB, are example of the eventual acceptance of the situation by the once vocal aspects of the scene - as they just enjoy using their VR tech in lockdown, rather than talking about it!
    All the Half Dome talk/publicity is just lip service. All sounds good but until they actually start to use the technology they like to showcase  that is all it is. 

    Don

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  • Heaney-555Heaney-555 Posts: 139
    Art3mis
    Half-Dome is a research project. It was shown off publicly to attract more researchers.

    If "Del Mar" is what we think it is (a Quest successor fixing Quest's flaws), I'd expect it to also be a capable PC VR headset to replace Rift S. Perhaps even with a Wireless Link Dongle.

    Facebook isn't ending its PC VR offering. But PC VR may simply become a mode for standalone headsets (as Link is), not a dedicated headset.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 4,179 Valuable Player
    edited April 2020
    Half-Dome is a research project. It was shown off publicly to attract more researchers.

    If "Del Mar" is what we think it is (a Quest successor fixing Quest's flaws), I'd expect it to also be a capable PC VR headset to replace Rift S. Perhaps even with a Wireless Link Dongle.

    Facebook isn't ending its PC VR offering. But PC VR may simply become a mode for standalone headsets (as Link is), not a dedicated headset.
    Yes, they will keep face for PCVR - so there will be a "successor" it just wont be the leap forward. For example, the leap forward would be that of the StarOne with eye tracking, high res screens, more FOV, etc etc. But that isn't what we will be getting with another slow upgrade path in the price point that want to keep at. Thus we will get another Rift S 2 with improve numbers here and there - just not new features. Did you know they could sell the Rift S cheaper than they are? Yea - not really that impressive... They even had the nerv to talk about the Rift S and how it didn't have the room or money to add more - then they release Quest that had dual higher res screens (2x screens!) that cost almost half what the headset sells for and still has the money for everything + mobile hardware. Total BS.

    As for wireless - Link still is bandwidth starve even over a cable - so I dont think you will see  it with USB 3. Maybe with USB 4 that is coming out next year. The problem with wireless is that is is slow and costly - so having the ability to do it wireless would add noticeable cost to the headset/production. It would take up an "update" slot for sure. I predict if they do add it to GO and HOME/Quest they will limit the pixel increases they will get going forward so they can stay with in the limits of wireless and USB.

    Question is - if that happens really. What I predict is that they will move away from that even more and go to Quest-2-Go, Quest-2-Home, and Quest-2-PC. All with different specs - but all supporting mobile hardware and using Link for Go-Home and another connector for PC that would have the highest specs - more than Rift S - but still the "new" technology upgrade part would be the ability across all lines to support mobile and pc.

    The controller technology upgrades seems awesome though. Any improvement there will go a long ways for all three headset line ups. I wonder though - if its double the polling rate - what they will do the battery life?

    Del Mar sounds just like I was predicting :3 Good luck everyone.

    * IF Oculus wants to make right - they need to drop the idea that PCVR has to stay in the sub 400$ range - and rely on their other models GO and Quest/Home to take that up instead with Link (or another input method) going forward and allow PCVR to have a higher price point. As for now, I dont 'see that happening and if they do raise the price for PCVR - it'll only because they will aline their hardware down the product stack to match while customers will pay for something they didn't want with it.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,408 Valuable Player
    The section of Oculus Store with Rift Experiences does seem to be neglected these days. Sure new releases are still posted - but recently Oculus forgot to post the currently highest rated Rift(-S) game with more than 40 ratings (or 100 ratings) in the New Releases section - namely The Room VR: A Dark Matter, which currently has an average rating of 98 % based on 114 ratings. I doubt such a mistake would have happened 1-2 years ago. 
    Seems like Oculus doesn't care much for the Rift right now, even if they might enjoy increased hmd sales due to Alyx just as much as Valve... In fact Alyx may be the biggest ever PCVR platform push for Oculus...  

    Quest now has a "Daily Deal" and "Stay Home/Stay Active" deals. There are no similar promotions for Rift Experiences, although there still is a section for experiences "on sale now". 

    Seems a bit dead-ish in the Rift section to me. Again fully understandable, Rift Experiences probably aren't going to sell 1 billion hmds, but to me that's kinda a silly goal - let's start with 10 mill and then maybe 25 mill... 

    I get the feeling that many people simply don't like to wear a HMD, or just don't have enough room space, not sure developing the most amazing high-res hmd with super-tracking will change that. I think current hmds are fine and I doubt that new high-end PCVR hmds will be like a second coming of Christ that the masses will bow to - we don't need more hmds for now, we got more than enough - but we need more Alyx-class content. And let's have those Ampere gpus launched too ;)
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    Half-Dome is a research project. It was shown off publicly to attract more researchers.

    If "Del Mar" is what we think it is (a Quest successor fixing Quest's flaws), I'd expect it to also be a capable PC VR headset to replace Rift S. Perhaps even with a Wireless Link Dongle.

    Facebook isn't ending its PC VR offering. But PC VR may simply become a mode for standalone headsets (as Link is), not a dedicated headset.
    Yeah, I'd go along with this.

    I wasn't too keen on the Quest as a PCVR replacement for the Rift and I'm still not totally ok with it, mainly because I'm really happy with the comfort of the S and I have reservations about the slightly lower refresh rate and early performance and reliability of Link during its beta stage. I also have questions over the cost and design considerations necessary for a combined PCVR capable - standalone headset if the vast majority of what you want to do is just PCVR.

    I'm gradually changing my mind though and having more fun with the untethered Quest. Plus if Oculus are continuing to give Link reasonably high levels of development resources, and if the next Quest has good performance improvements, I'm losing my doubts about it becoming a good Rift replacement as well as stand-alone. I think it could be difficult to argue that the next Quest isn't a Rift with stand-alone capabilities built-in.

    In any event, I see no reason why Oculus/Facebook would drop PCVR at all. I think it's increasingly coming down to whether people define Rift as PCVR capable headset or define it as a PCVR-only headset.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,111 Valuable Player
    Half-Dome is a research project. It was shown off publicly to attract more researchers.

    If "Del Mar" is what we think it is (a Quest successor fixing Quest's flaws), I'd expect it to also be a capable PC VR headset to replace Rift S. Perhaps even with a Wireless Link Dongle.

    Facebook isn't ending its PC VR offering. But PC VR may simply become a mode for standalone headsets (as Link is), not a dedicated headset.

    Oculus will release the Half Dome prototype as a PC VR headset in 2022 because they can't use the tech inside the Half Dome prototype for a standalone headset.

    There simply isn't room inside a standalone headset for the smartphone tech, heatsink and fans and the Half Dome prototype tech, plus with all that tech inside it the headset will be too expensive. You'll be looking at the thing costing $600+ even if they could squeeze everything in there.

    We'll see the Quest 2 and Rift 2 releasing in 2022. The Rift 2 will have 4K BOE fast-switch LCDs, eye tracking, foveated rendering and MAYBE the varifocal feature and sell it for $399-$499.

    And any changes made to the controllers will appear on both the Quest 2 and Rift 2.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,111 Valuable Player
    Forgot to add my most important point above. You don't spend millions of dollars showcasing tech the way they have done these last few years and not bring it to market.

    They're planning on bringing this to the Rift line of products and when manufacturing costs come down and cooling for smartphone hardware improves they'll bring it to the Quest line of products.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Forgot to add my most important point above. You don't spend millions of dollars showcasing tech the way they have done these last few years and not bring it to market.

    Yes you do, its a publicity vehicle for OC events!
    We see the automotive industry spend higher sums creating "concept cars" that they wheel out at every show claiming that this tech will be applied in their next model!

    I look forward to 2022 to see the new CV2 or will this be the Half-Dome5 or RiftS++?
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