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There is no such thing as a killer app that will get vr to the masses

inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
It has been said from the beginning vr needs a killer app to get vr to the masses. Its said to this day by some. Some will say half life Alex is it. It will take many half life Alex games in a constant flow along with other arguable attributes physically needed on a vr headset along with price to accomplish this. My argument is vr is the killer app. 
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Comments

  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 829
    3Jane
    Who cares what the masses do, i already got my VR so i am sorted, let them eat cake.;)
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    OmegaM4N said:
    Who cares what the masses do, i already got my VR so i am sorted, let them eat cake.;)
    The reason why you should care is if vr sells to the masses and vr games make similar money for developers as pancake games do the quality of games and the number of aaa games will go through the roof.
  • zork2001zork2001 Posts: 563
    Trinity
    The only killer app is an app you can use everyday, it's an app that has broad appeal. No story based game like Half-Life will be a killer app, it's like reading 1 book; that book has a shelf life you will eventually be done with, not to mention the type of genre of book will not appeal to a lot of people in the first place.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,736 Valuable Player
    Everyone with ANY sort of sense knows full well that Nakamura's Fall is going to be the killer app for VR, you crazy fools.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,422 Valuable Player
    edited July 14
    I don't think it's about a killer app anymore because there's already some good content in VR now that should appeal to a variety of people. Here's a list > Games, desktop VR, watching media, experiences, social apps, maps, adult content, multitasking. Have I missed anything?
    This is only my opinion, but I think it's more about visuals and getting VR to look similar to a 1080P monitor now. That's if we are just talking about native PC -VR and not the standalone Oculus Quest. There are people who are impressed by the immersion VR gives you at first, but then there's a lot of people who just want VR to look as good as a 1080p monitor. When I showed VR to people they would often ask why it was so blurry, but I also found they wowed by the immersion it gave them.
    I don't think it's all about content because standalone devices like the Oculus Quest seem to be doing quite well. I think there's also less people who complain about the Oculus Quest visuals, because its just a mobile device and people don't expect games to have great visuals on a mobile device. With PC gamers it's a different kettle of fish, these people are used to playing games with great visuals. PC Gamers are playing on anything from a 1080p monitor to a 4K monitor and have far superior processing power than any mobile device can give them. So yeah, I think some of the PC crowd expect a bit more in the visual department IMHO.
    Edit: Triple AAA games also can take years to make, so VR can't just rely on games to be successful, which is why I mentioned the list of other things it also offers right now.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    edited July 14
    The last time the OP started a thread with this hyperbolic clickbait headline, it got closed and the Moderator gave some very intelligent advice:
    This could have been quite an interesting thread on comfort although the subject has been discussed several times already and maybe the slightly hyperbolic title was a clue that energetic discussion was the aim rather than the less energetic variety. I usually find that a topic like this is better served with a question rather than a statement but I guess that's me.

    Both Half-Life Alyx and Beat Saber have brought millions of users to VR by themselves. When you're in the millions, you are in the masses.





    Some Math:
    • Beat Saber is in the 2million-5million category
    • HLA is in the 1million-2million category

    VR can't be a killer anything if there's no Software to support it. VR isn't a killer App because VR isn't an App. That's just fundamentally wrong on every level.
    • VR is an Industry
    • VR is a platform
    • VR is an ecosystem

    I doubt facts will matter in this discussion though, based on the history of how this is always approached lol
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Let's stop with the insults. If a member doesn't like the heading then just pass. There is a reason why a certain member got banned twice. It's ok to disagree. I'm just saying.

    When I talk about the masses, I'm mean masses similar to what pancake gaming has. Or better said would be mainstream. When I say vr is the killer app of course it's not an app. The point is what will draw people into vr will be vr itself not a particular app. Many have said in the past we need a killer app to make vr mainstream. When vr has enough aaa games and popular software and the right physical attributes it will become mainstream not a so called killer app. (That's singular) half life alex and beat saver help move vr in the right direction but the low millions attracted, moves the needle forward slowly. Yes you need the software for vr. But at the end of the day you can use similar software on other medias. When vr becomes mainstream there will be millions of  people choosing vr as their main media choice. They will be choosing vr to use the software not the software to use vr.
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,351 Valuable Player
    You really like your "No such Thing" threads.


  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Digikid1 said:
    You really like your "No such Thing" threads.


    I do.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    edited July 14
    inovator said:
    Let's stop with the insults. If a member doesn't like the heading then just pass. There is a reason why a certain member got banned twice. It's ok to disagree. I'm just saying.
    There's no insults, this is just looking at the approach that is continuously used to initiate negative dialogue, "there's no such thing."
    You say this as and absolute, and you put it in your Headline. This only serves to elicit negative feedback by those who clearly understand that there "is such a thing."
    And as I said, you were advised by a Moderator on a better way to approach topic presentation to the community. I am merely echoing that advise as a reminder, since we see the exact same scenario with the exact same intent appearing.
    As for insults, you've dished out your share; and you don't seem too worried about getting banned ;)


    When I talk about the masses, I'm mean masses similar to what pancake gaming has.

    And what are those numbers? You have presented zero data. How many users are involved in Pancake gaming? How many users are involved in VR? Show some data before you draw a conclusion.

    It sounds like you meant to say, "VR needs as many killer apps as pancake gaming has, so that it can reach the same level of mainstream success."

    That would be far more accurate than whatever you've said so far.


    I say vr is the killer app of course it's not an app.

    If you say vr is the killer app then of course you mean VR is an app. It can't be a killer app if it's not an app.


    The point is what will draw people into vr will be vr itself not a particular app.
    Agreed, not a "particular app" but a "killer app" is what will draw people in. Just like Word Processors drew people in to using PC's at home and the workplace. While it won't be a single killer app, it will be a series of killer apps.
    Pancake gaming, which you are using in your comparison, has multiple killer apps.


    When vr has enough aaa games and popular software and the right physical attributes it will become mainstream not a so called killer app.

    AAA games and Popular Software are what help define killers apps! lmao

    This is what you just said,

    "When Vr has enough killer apps and the right physical attributes, it will become mainstream not a so called killer app."

    VR already has the right physical attributes. The VR ecosystem just needs more killer apps, since right now they measure in the low dozens compared to pancake gaming which has killer apps in the thousands. Simple.


    When vr becomes mainstream there will be millions of  people choosing vr as their main media choice. They will be choosing vr to use the software not the software to use vr.

    VR is not a media device, it is a platform that expands to media and beyond. People can use VR for software today, since VR does allow people to use all of our software right now, with Virtual Desktop capabilities. So your statement here makes no sense.

    People will continue to choose VR based on the software (killer apps) available, just as people do when choosing a Console or a PC or a Smart Device.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Your  entitled to your opinions. I disagree with most of them.  I stand by what i said. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    edited July 14
    inovator said:
    Your  entitled to your opinions. I disagree with most of them.  I stand by what i said. 

    I provide data with my opinions, you do not. Data stands by what I say. Data is absent from what you say.
    It is perfectly fine to disagree, but when someone offers zero evidence or data, and only offers absolutes, then the motives become a bit suspect.

    You do disagree with me a lot, but it is starting to seem like it is more out of principal. Like the time you disagreed with me on a simple sentence Kojack typed. It took him to start a new thread to correct you before you stopped changing his words:
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/91267/is-the-quest-a-hybrid-cleaning-up-the-reverb-g2-thread/p1
    "Oh, and for inovator, I absolutely did not say the quest was or wasn't a hybrid. I said the argument was pointless because neither side was going to change their mind."

    That situation only happened because you disagree with me on anything and everything, regardless of what's true or not. You should consider approaching conversations with a bit more of an open mind and willingness to learn from others; instead of posting absolutes with zero evidence and zero data.
    <3
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,736 Valuable Player
    He doesn't disagree with you on anything and everything!!! 😝😂😂😂
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Kojak said drop it. You should listen. Unless you want to go for ban number 3. I have actually agreed on many things through the years. I stand by what I said. There is plenty of data that members have seen. I don't have to prove anything in this case. Sometimes a member will cherry pick thing. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
     I stand by what I said.

    The data does not stand by what you say. Which is probably why you continue to post without showing any data. I showed the Steam numbers for HLA and Beat Saber, which measures in the millions. You've shown zero data.
    The data stands by what I say.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    I stand but what I say. The members are smart enough to have seen the data. (Most members)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    I stand but what I say. The members are smart enough to have seen the data. (Most members)
    What members? The members can speak for themselves. You have no data, which is what all members can see.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    The members are smarter than you believe. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,964 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
     I stand by what I said.

    The data does not stand by what you say. Which is probably why you continue to post without showing any data. I showed the Steam numbers for HLA and Beat Saber, which measures in the millions. You've shown zero data.
    The data stands by what I say.

    Fully agree, content is key - exactly like Beat Saber and Alyx.

    I get the feeling that the OP is just trying to get some reactions by provoking readers - this evening I'll spend some time in VR instead of spending time on a thread that probably never should have been made. 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
     I stand by what I said.

    The data does not stand by what you say. Which is probably why you continue to post without showing any data. I showed the Steam numbers for HLA and Beat Saber, which measures in the millions. You've shown zero data.
    The data stands by what I say.

    Fully agree, content is key - exactly like Beat Saber and Alyx.

    I get the feeling that the OP is just trying to get some reactions by provoking readers - this evening I'll spend some time in VR instead of spending time on a thread that probably never should have been made. 
    It should have been made. No provocation intended. Vr is the key then the content. Without vr tech you would have content with other sources but not vr.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,736 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
     I stand by what I said.

    The data does not stand by what you say. Which is probably why you continue to post without showing any data. I showed the Steam numbers for HLA and Beat Saber, which measures in the millions. You've shown zero data.
    The data stands by what I say.

    Fully agree, content is key - exactly like Beat Saber and Alyx.

    I get the feeling that the OP is just trying to get some reactions by provoking readers - this evening I'll spend some time in VR instead of spending time on a thread that probably never should have been made. 
    It should have been made. No provocation intended. Vr is the key then the content. Without vr tech you would have content with other sources but not vr.

    Well it isn't a chicken or the egg situation obviously. You can't have VR games without VR headsets, unless I've misunderstood this post?

    But like with any sort of games hardware, whether it's a PC, console or VR headset, content is ALWAYS King. At the moment the vast majority of headsets in homes have been bought by gamers for playing VR games, so you need AAA quality games to attract gamers. Thankfully we've seen PLENTY of these AAA quality games since the Rift and Vive first launched. and the majority of those AAA quality games have been released by Oculus. But there are others (Sony, Valve and HTC) that have added to this top quality content.

    But the MAJOR thing that needs to happen is for Microsoft to bring VR to their console, once that happens we'll start to see a shift by publishers and developers from flat development and releases to VR development and releases, and some time between 5 and 10 years after that you'll find only a small minority of developers working on flat games.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,742 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    The members are smarter than you believe. 
    Most members are smarter than what threads like this impose.  As seen by Rune's reply, who is one of the most credible and knowledgeable VR enthusiasts in the community.
    You are literally suggesting that people would put on a VR HMD without regard for the software that they would use; it's rather absurd to suggest. Especially since you compared it to pancake gaming which only thrives because of the existence of "killer apps."

    Regardless, you are typing everything you can to avoid doing the hard work and backing up your claims with data. Likely because you know that if you would stop typing auto-replies and actually did some research, the data just might not align with what you're saying. Just like the way your version of kojack's views on Quest were 100% off target.

    RuneSR2 said:
    Fully agree, content is key - exactly like Beat Saber and Alyx.

    I get the feeling that the OP is just trying to get some reactions by provoking readers - this evening I'll spend some time in VR instead of spending time on a thread that probably never should have been made. 

    Quality advice!


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Zenbane: You are literally suggesting that people would put on a VR HMD without regard for the software that they would use; it's rather absurd to suggest. Especially since you compared it to pancake gaming which only thrives because of the existence of "killer apps."

    Not true. To get the vr experience you 1st need the vr tech then the software to attract people to use it along with the physical attributes to get even more people to use vr. Pancake gaming thrives because 100s of millions of  people use it so developers have the money to make many more aaa games and experiences. Vr has in the low millions of users and has a long way to go to before it will be able to thrive at the pancake gaming capacity.
    To snowdog:
      This is a chicken and egg situation. The tech had to come 1st. 
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,422 Valuable Player
    edited July 15
    When a Video recorder was produced years ago, it obviously needed to do something good before anyone would buy it. The Video recorder would eventually end up doing two things, which was to recorded television and you were then able to rent  films and other content for it. So it basically ended up doing what billions of people wanted it to do and so eventually people bought into it.
    Now lets talk about VR. The one thing that VR has going for it right now is that it immerses you in games to some degree. But the thing I keep hearing from some gamers is that the visuals just aren't there yet. When the visuals do become acceptable and hopefully a lot of gamers swap their monitor for a VR headset, will these visuals be good enough for the other things that have also been talked about? Things like going ring side and watching a boxing match, or taking a front seat at a concert or a show.
    When VR can achieve all this, that is when it will sell to billions of people. I can't see how it will sell to billions of people any other way until it achieves all this. I'd like to say this is only my opinion, but having seen a fair few gamers criticizing the visuals in VR, I can't really say this is only my opinion :p
    Content might be King, but visuals play a big part in all of this :)
     

  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    When a Video recorder was produced years ago, it needed to do something good before anyone would actually buy it. The Video recorder would eventually end up doing two things, which was to recorded television and you were then able to rent  films and other content for it. So it basically ended up doing what billions of people wanted it to do and so eventually people bought into it.
    Now lets talk about VR. The one thing that VR has going for it right now is that it immerses you in games to some degree. But the thing I keep hearing from some gamers is that the visuals just aren't there yet. When the visuals do become acceptable and hopefully a lot of gamers swap their monitor for a VR headset, will these visuals be good enough for the other things that have also been talked about? Things like going ring side and watching a boxing match, or taking a front seat at a concert or a show.
    When VR can achieve all this, that is when it will sell to billions of people. I can't see how it will sell to billions of people any other way until it achieves all this. I'd like to say this is only my opinion, but having seen a fair few gamers criticizing the visuals in VR, I can't really say this is only my opinion :p
    Content might be King, but visuals play a big part in all of this :)
     

    Good point. Visuals are in the category of physical attributes  I mentioned.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,736 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    Zenbane: You are literally suggesting that people would put on a VR HMD without regard for the software that they would use; it's rather absurd to suggest. Especially since you compared it to pancake gaming which only thrives because of the existence of "killer apps."

    Not true. To get the vr experience you 1st need the vr tech then the software to attract people to use it along with the physical attributes to get even more people to use vr. Pancake gaming thrives because 100s of millions of  people use it so developers have the money to make many more aaa games and experiences. Vr has in the low millions of users and has a long way to go to before it will be able to thrive at the pancake gaming capacity.
    To snowdog:
      This is a chicken and egg situation. The tech had to come 1st. 

    It ISN'T a chicken or the egg situation because there's no debate - the VR tech had to come first.

    But this is true for ANY gaming hardware, whether it's a GPU or game console. The hardware has to exist before developers can write code that uses it.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Snowdog: the VR tech had to come first.
    Agreed
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 2,351 Valuable Player
    Well I know what I have to do...


    and here is enough for everyone....


  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,591 Valuable Player
    Digikid1 said:
    Well I know what I have to do...


    and here is enough for everyone....


    Put your headset in that bag and it will pop with added high tech.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,973 Volunteer Moderator
    @Digikid1 is that the 2nd or 3rd bag we're on now?
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.388)
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