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Blast from the Past - Powerful SEGA Mega Visor Display VR

kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,363 Valuable Player
While it is difficult to speak about the phases of VR innovation stretching from 1960 to 1990, here is an example of a forgotten platform that actually made a significant difference to the perception of VR headsets, and was emulated in a number of ways by at least two manufacturers in their future VR designs.



https://www.vrfocus.com/2020/07/the-virtual-arena-blast-from-the-past-the-vr-1/ 
rlwvperoke0n.jpg
** Second New Book **
"The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,422 Valuable Player
    When I look at that headset, I can't help thinking how long it will take us to get to a 8k per eye VR headset. How long do you reckon it will take for 8k per eye? I'm thinking about 10 plus years, but I hope I'm wrong.


  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,363 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    When I look at that headset, I can't help thinking how long it will take us to get to a 8k per eye VR headset. How long do you reckon it will take for 8k per eye? I'm thinking about 10 plus years, but I hope I'm wrong.

    There are two schools of thought. 
    - The first is that 8k per eye could be simulated and supported by eye-tracking and that tech is about eight years away.
    - The second is that neural-net may be the way forward, and we bypass the optic nerves and go straight for brain stimulation. 
    The day of the headband, against the headset may be coming. 
    rlwvperoke0n.jpg
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,975 Valuable Player
    edited July 28
    RedRizla said:
    When I look at that headset, I can't help thinking how long it will take us to get to a 8k per eye VR headset. How long do you reckon it will take for 8k per eye? I'm thinking about 10 plus years, but I hope I'm wrong.


    Depends really - Eye tracking is half the battle - FB also has done research into also faking the side information almost doubling the pixel created method, sort of like how DLSS work but on kool aid, meaning we could see 8k per eye over night once eye tracking proves it self to work in at least one headset. 

    With that said - there are other problems to consider such as the cable bandwidth and the fact 8k screens don't really exist in the mass market yet at a reasonable price point. Plus the more pixels you have - the more heat they generate. 5 to 10 years sounds about right. 

    Without eye tracking - we be talking at least 15 to 20 years.... so 5 or 10 doesnt sound as bad lol. Though in 2025 we should see the first cards be able to start doing a single 8k display. Rough... but it should be able to do it at 30Hzs. Then 2030 around 60Hz to 75Hz. By then I figure we're hit some hard limits because nodes will be much much harder to shrink going forward.

    Eye tracking will most likely start at around a 30% gain - with tricks and other new rendering methods I predict it will be as high as 50% -- and not just total - but 50% per eye - meaning 8k per eye would be really closer to the same performance needs as a 4k per eye display.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,637 Volunteer Moderator
    Mradr said:
    RedRizla said:
    When I look at that headset, I can't help thinking how long it will take us to get to a 8k per eye VR headset. How long do you reckon it will take for 8k per eye? I'm thinking about 10 plus years, but I hope I'm wrong.


    Depends really - Eye tracking is half the battle - FB also has done research into also faking the side information almost doubling the pixel created method, sort of like how DLSS work but on kool aid, meaning we could see 8k per eye over night once eye tracking proves it self to work in at least one headset. 

    With that said - there are other problems to consider such as the cable bandwidth and the fact 8k screens don't really exist in the mass market yet at a reasonable price point. Plus the more pixels you have - the more heat they generate. 5 to 10 years sounds about right. 

    Without eye tracking - we be talking at least 15 to 20 years.... so 5 or 10 doesnt sound as bad lol. Though in 2025 we should see the first cards be able to start doing a single 8k display. Rough... but it should be able to do it at 30Hzs. Then 2030 around 60Hz to 75Hz. By then I figure we're hit some hard limits because nodes will be much much harder to shrink going forward.

    Eye tracking will most likely start at around a 30% gain - with tricks and other new rendering methods I predict it will be as high as 50% -- and not just total - but 50% per eye - meaning 8k per eye would be really closer to the same performance needs as a 4k per eye display.
    This where it helps to have a processor in the headset; the foundation that Oculus has laid with Link solves the bandwidth problem. With Link, they render a full image on the PC, then scale down the periphery to make a smaller image that requires less bandwidth to send to the headset. On the other end, the decoder stretches the peripheral part of the image to fill out the screen. With the addition of eye-tracking, you could heavily compress most of the image, leaving just the foveal area at high resolution. Bandwidth ceases to be an issue, but you need some smarts in the headset to put the picture back together properly.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,267 Valuable Player
    edited July 29
    I guess I must be easily please. I am not even bothered about 8k screens.
    2k per eye at 120hz (because I am told once you go 120 it's hard to go back) with an FOV around the 130 mark, with high quality inside out tracking, preferably officially in the oculus infrastructure but with controllers with proper finger tracking and that will do me for quite some time.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,363 Valuable Player
    I guess I must be easily please. I am not even bothered about 8k screens.
    2k per eye at 120hz (because I am told once you go 120 it's hard to go back) with an FOV around the 130 mark, with high quality inside out tracking, preferably officially in the oculus infrastructure but with controllers with proper finger tracking and that will do me for quite some time.

    Most people are happy till they see the next incremental improvement, and then suddenly they know what they have been missing - from Colour CRT TV too Flatscreen HiDef.
    rlwvperoke0n.jpg
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,422 Valuable Player
    edited July 30
    I guess I must be easily please. I am not even bothered about 8k screens.
    2k per eye at 120hz (because I am told once you go 120 it's hard to go back) with an FOV around the 130 mark, with high quality inside out tracking, preferably officially in the oculus infrastructure but with controllers with proper finger tracking and that will do me for quite some time.

    I'd say 2k per eye helps VR get closer to looking like a 1080p monitor in VR. So I'm thinking a 4k per eye would get it looking closer to a 2k monitor in VR and 8k per eye looking like a 4k monitor VR. I could be wrong about that though, I'm just going by what 2k per eye looks to like to me. :)
  • Pixie40Pixie40 Posts: 173
    Art3mis
    Then there are people like me who quite honestly don't see much of a difference. When I switched from CRT to flat screen, I didn't see much of a difference in image quality. The differences I did see were due to my CRT tv being 20 years old and on it's last legs. To me, image quality didn't change much. Only image size changed due to having a bigger TV. Similarly going from standard definition to high definition, I didn't see a difference. I still don't see one beyond the size of the image. Now I have a 4k screen I'm using for my computer, and I still don't see a difference beyond "Oh my god, the UI in my PC games is too damn small".
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,363 Valuable Player
    I still prefer the CRT on some visual representation. I missed my big old hi-def CRT system, while the new HiDef Flatscreens offer something, sometimes the subtleties are missed. 

    Regarding improved pixel and FOV for the coming six-gen headsets - its a bit of a mixed bag. As seen with the new Varjo XR-1 most consumers will never get to see it outside of visiting a LBE VR venue. So you dont know what you are missing. Also the PC rig to power these headsets are way out side the pocket of the most rabbid PC masterrace user. I just hope that the VR scene can continue beyond Standalone - and that 5G and 6G wireless holds some of the answres. 
    rlwvperoke0n.jpg
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,992 Valuable Player
    Pixie40 said:
    Then there are people like me who quite honestly don't see much of a difference. When I switched from CRT to flat screen, I didn't see much of a difference in image quality. The differences I did see were due to my CRT tv being 20 years old and on it's last legs. To me, image quality didn't change much. Only image size changed due to having a bigger TV. Similarly going from standard definition to high definition, I didn't see a difference. I still don't see one beyond the size of the image. Now I have a 4k screen I'm using for my computer, and I still don't see a difference beyond "Oh my god, the UI in my PC games is too damn small".

    I actually thought LCD tv's looked a lot worse when they came out. CRT had great colors, at least my CRT monitors did. But, it was nice not to have a 50lb monitor anymore that took up a huge amount of space on my desk so I did it for the flatness and convenience of LCD's.

    Resolution on the other hand is quite important to me, but it depends on the size of the monitor and how far away from it I am. IE under 27" and if I'm sitting 3 feet away, anything above 1440p isn't necessary. On 17" and below laptop 1080p is fine. On my 49" tv..anything under 4k looks terrible lol. 
  • willdeanwilldean Posts: 11
    Brain Burst
    Looks really interesting. It was nice to find this post.
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