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How Could Facebook Account Scores Impact You?

kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
edited September 2 in General
This is a post from a discussion that was "surprisingly" closed by a moderator, but others wanted to try out the  little activity it suggested - and rather as suggested derailing another discussion it was felt best to share it here:

I think we need to break down the "account scores" that Facebook's teams might be evaluating in account holders before they consider action against accounts:

a- Previous Activities
Looking at if the account is regularly active[1], is the user in a high or low percentage of posters[2] and do they follow promotions and adverts[3]
[Total = ?]

b- Previous Behavior
Have they been banned or received moderator sanctions[1], have they been found pretending to be something they are not (or trustworthiness) [2], have they been accused of unsuitable behavior (or inauthentic) [3]
[Total = ?]

c- Community Standing
Are they in a net-worth group targeted by promotions[1], are they in a territory that is seen as advantageous to the service[2], do their activities draw other users interests[3]
[Total = ?]

d- Access to Metrics
Has the user supplied full personal information[1], is there means to collect biometric behavior,[2] are there means to collect their buying habits, preference and decision making metrics[3]
[Total = ?]

e- Brand Loyalty [EDIT - added, thanks MJ]
Is the user an owner of supported products and services[1]. has the user purchased products / services that were advertised to them (targeted)[2], and has the user suggested to other to do the same[3]
[Total = ?]

Obviously there will be some other tracking category's that are particular and secret to the organization but its fair to say these are the type of key account scores that will be harvested. This is particular to social apps like the new Horizon and also to monitoring activities in games. 

It must be understood that removal of anonymity of the account holders is essential to achieve the needed levels of social interaction that Facebook has striven for - they feel that anonymity allows some of the most counter productive behavior on the service. To secure advertising and sponsor revenue anonymity is not allowed.

Based on your score - then there will be access to forums, and to social entertainment, your access to special offers and your ability to achieve full functionality from your experience. For the majority of us we come across this behavior when we use our smartphone, or use our internet browsers (even when we shop online) - now this will happen when we use our consumer VR platform.

For many it will come as a very painful surprise what this will mean for the VR community. 


EDIT - I changed this a little so we can all play a game, assign each value one point and evaluate your score based on you perceived value - and share what you think your score would be?

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Comments

  • falken76falken76 Posts: 3,020 Valuable Player
    Who cares?  Seriously.  They'll use this data to try and advertise to me and it will have the same effect it did on SOE when the Planetside subscriber base started to dwindle, so they brought in advertisers in an attempt to bring in revenue.  The result was a bunch of stupid ads in parts of the game where it wasn't supposed to break immersion too much.  I'm guessing that facebook wants to target advertise to us, but I subconciously block all ads automatically because I've been using WWW since the days of Mosaic when it was the only browser.  I lived through the pop ups that were so bad.  I've been bombarded with advertisments so much I don't pay attention to them at all for the most part, and I'm willing to put money on the fact that many people do this as well.

    As far as I'm concerned, Facebook is an over glorified modern day BBS.  I'd prefer to see the advertisments in the form of product placement but that's not flashy enough.  My only concern with using facebook with oculus is how they treat the oculus side of an account that has software that you spent money on, in the event of an account ban.

    If there is confirmation that a ban on facebook would brick your HMD and all your software I will never purchase an oculus product again.  The parent company is IMHO a BBS which really is a series of SIGS (Special interest groups).  The parent company is extremely liberal in its beliefs.  I'm sure they'd silence those with opposing views, god forbid you have conservative view points that you share on their "SIGS" and then you get banned for having the "wrong" opinion, now all your games are blocked and your hardware bricked.  THAT is the only thing I'd be concerned about with this.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,956 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 29
    falken76 said:
    Who cares?  Seriously.  They'll use this data to try and advertise to me and it will have the same effect it did on SOE when the Planetside subscriber base started to dwindle, so they brought in advertisers in an attempt to bring in revenue.  The result was a bunch of stupid ads in parts of the game where it wasn't supposed to break immersion too much.  I'm guessing that facebook wants to target advertise to us, but I subconciously block all ads automatically because I've been using WWW since the days of Mosaic when it was the only browser.  I lived through the pop ups that were so bad.  I've been bombarded with advertisments so much I don't pay attention to them at all for the most part, and I'm willing to put money on the fact that many people do this as well.

    As far as I'm concerned, Facebook is an over glorified modern day BBS.  I'd prefer to see the advertisments in the form of product placement but that's not flashy enough.  My only concern with using facebook with oculus is how they treat the oculus side of an account that has software that you spent money on, in the event of an account ban.

    If there is confirmation that a ban on facebook would brick your HMD and all your software I will never purchase an oculus product again.  The parent company is IMHO a BBS which really is a series of SIGS (Special interest groups).  The parent company is extremely liberal in its beliefs.  I'm sure they'd silence those with opposing views, god forbid you have conservative view points that you share on their "SIGS" and then you get banned for having the "wrong" opinion, now all your games are blocked and your hardware bricked.  THAT is the only thing I'd be concerned about with this.
    No, there has been no indication that full account bans will be handed out left and right, just a lot of sky-is-falling hyperbole claiming that this will happen. Oculus does not have a history of commonly banning people and locking them out of their purchases, and Facebook’s ban policy for free accounts does not necessarily indicate how they will treat paying customers with hardware and software tied to their accounts. 

    Like you, I have a hard rule to never click on an ad (in my mind, it’s akin to clicking a link in a spam email). Even if I see something that catches my interest, I will go to the company’s page in a separate tab rather than let an ad link me through. Perhaps that makes me a “low value account” according to this score hypothesis, but frankly, I find this idea of account scores ridiculous, especially the suggestion that access to forums, features, or functionality will be gated by these scores. Does anyone actually believe this?
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  • Pixie40Pixie40 Posts: 506
    Neo
    I remember when City of Heroes decided to sell in-game advertising space. It was tastefully done, and not immersion breaking. Instead of an advertisement for a fictional restaurant called City of Gyros for example, there might be a billboard advertising McDonalds. You could opt out of these in-game ads, but they really weren't that intrusive. Many people in the forum went ape shit over it, claiming Cryptic (the developer) had betrayed the game. In truth, it made almost no difference.
    I'd like to think this is how any adverts in Horizon will be done. I'd like to, but I suspect it'll be a bit more egregious then that. But I don't think we have to worry about unclosable paid ad windows popping up in Star Trek: Bridge Crew or our other games. Maybe commercials on before a Venue event or before a movie in Big Screen, but I that's probably the extent of that. I could see them having banner ads for things other then VR apps on your Home screen though.
  • wuzpwuzp Posts: 516
    Neo
    Facefook would not be the first company to score users.  Sony is only allowing PS5 pre-orders, based on your brand loyalty.

  • Pixie40Pixie40 Posts: 506
    Neo
    ... Which is stupid. Exactly what metric are they using to decide 'brand loyalty'? When it came to getting a next gen console and upgrading from my SNES, I had options. I chose to get a Playstation. I bought a PS2 when they first came out, and to this day my PS1 and PS2 library is the bigger then my 360, XBOne, or any other game library. Still play them regularly too. I didn't buy a PS3 right away, but that was because I knew someone who had to replace his brand new PS3 three times in five months with normal usage. Besides, I didn't have the money for both a 360 and a PS3. Now I'm looking to get a PS3 in the near future. I didn't get a PSP, but I do have a Playstation Vita. Don't have too many physical games for it, but I have a decent collection of digital games. I'd have more, but the memory cards for it are expensive. I have a PS4 and a decent game library. Also have a PSVR setup with a good assortment of games. Not as many as I do now for PSVR and the Quest, but a good assortment.

    But let me guess, because I didn't buy any of my Sony consoles directly from them, they aren't counted as 'brand loyalty? And I'm guessing the fact I got an X-Box One first due to that being what my friends and family having, and playing co-op games with them is going to hurt my 'brand loyalty' score? Or is it the fact that I don't feel the need to rebuy every X-Box One or PC game I have bought so I can play it on my PS4?
  • wuzpwuzp Posts: 516
    Neo
    edited August 29
    Pixie40 said:
    I'd like to think this is how any adverts in Horizon will be done. I'd like to, but I suspect it'll be a bit more egregious then that. But I don't think we have to worry about unclosable paid ad windows popping up in Star Trek: Bridge Crew or our other games. Maybe commercials on before a Venue event or before a movie in Big Screen, but I that's probably the extent of that. I could see them having banner ads for things other then VR apps on your Home screen though.
    Nah, think "product placement" and in-app purchases.  Have you seen a few episodes of "Upload?"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    edited August 29
    So this whole entire concept is based on a false narrative. There is zero evidence to ever suggest that Facebook uses such a scoring system. There was a Trust Score facebook introduced a few years ago:

    But for those familiar with online activities, a Trust Score is no different than:
    • Getting a bunch of Likes on a Social Media comment (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook)
    • Getting a bunch of Upvotes on reddit
    • Getting upvotes on this forum

    As I said in the original thread, I've been using Facebook for over a decade, and there is no such application of this type of scoring system. To be blunt: Facebook isn't that archaic.

    This scoring system is more of a personalized list of how to discipline children in school. lmao

    I still have no idea why people are going to such hyperbolic lengths. The reality is that this Facebook news was a long-time coming. Most of us in this community saw the writing on the wall years ago. And I've been asking for the Account Linking since like 2017.

    Places like this forum and reddit are far more strict on how it "scores users" for warnings and bans than Facebook has ever been.

    Did we really need a new thread just for a false narrative on an existing topic?
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
    Interesting article on the realities of the FB advertising algorithms and how the User Scoring and Advertising targeting is employed and the inherent issues with this:

  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 940
    3Jane
    ^^^Ad rev runs and controls FB, always been that way, that is why FB were having a tizzy over on Apples platform, hell the irony of Zuckerberg complaining about Apples "stanglehold" over their iphone brand gave me a right old chuckle. lol

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,198 Volunteer Moderator
    nalex66 said:
    No, there has been no indication that full account bans will be handed out left and right, just a lot of sky-is-falling hyperbole claiming that this will happen.
    I have it on authority that the below (very simple) metric is in fact the one used by Facebook for its VR users:

    The amount of time an individual uses an Oculus headset (in minutes per day) divided by the number of words expressing doom on the forum...

    Greater than 1:
    Someone enjoying VR and likely to continue doing so, less vocal than most on the forum.
    Unity:
    Very rare individual, seldom seen, may only exist in theory.
    Less than 1:
    Commonly found on the forum and can range from the professional non-consumer doom monger, to the part-time hobbyist monger.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,777 Valuable Player
    edited August 30
    @kevinw729 -I've watched the YouTube video. But what I find interesting is that most of the comments are all against Facebook doing this. I see comments by people saying they are going to jump ship to another device or they are selling their devices. So, if Facebook is so popular, why aren't there lots of comments defending this decision?

    Can I anyone answer this question? When you create a Facebook account does this mean you are creating a webpage that allows anyone to see it? I know you can set privacy settings, but does creating a Facebook account allow anyone to see that webpage? Does this then allow people to try to contact you when they see this webpage?

    I ask this because people talk about Valve, etc. But Valve doesn't create a webpage for people to visit with my real name on it. With Valve you set a username of your choice (not a real name) and then you can set privacy settings and choose if you want someone to see your profile. So, is this how Facebook works or does Facebook create a webpage with your real name attached to it for people to look at?


  • synchromesh62synchromesh62 Posts: 200
    Nexus 6
    edited August 30
    Great vid and ye im kind of on that side of the fence now im sorted and kind of agree this time next year it wont be such a big deal. Still a little confused though in a sense if there is more oculus account, Phone app or control over installations and purchases. In fact how will you purchase items if you cannot access the store via your oculus account which has all your Payment details ? 
    Or will you still need some kind of Oculus account.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,198 Volunteer Moderator
    wuzp said:
    Happy to be undefined :)
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,912 Valuable Player
    Everything that @Zenbane said
  • wuzpwuzp Posts: 516
    Neo
    snowdog said:
    Everything that @Zenbane said
    I think, what stokes the issue, is that everything people "fear/hate/loathe" about FB is personified by one individual; Mark Zuckerberg.  Once Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the original Google guys left; all the conspiracy talk about their companies "more or less" subsided or went away.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Everything that @Zenbane said

    Yes, we know.  B)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,198 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 30
    wuzp said:
    snowdog said:
    Everything that @Zenbane said
    I think, what stokes the issue, is that everything people "fear/hate/loathe" about FB is personified by one individual; Mark Zuckerberg.  Once Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the original Google guys left; all the conspiracy talk about their companies "more or less" subsided or went away.

    I think Microsoft took a bit of a dive when Steve Ballmer took over. I don't think a marketing man in charge of a tech company is a good idea. Much better when it's someone with a tech background. I think their current CEO has an electrical engineering background... what more could you want.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
    I think Microsoft took a bit of a dive when Steve Ballmer took over. I don't think a marketing man in charge of a tech company is a good idea. Much better when it's someone with a tech background. I think their current CEO has an electrical engineering background... what more could you want.

    Oh wow, we can now have separate discussions about non-topic elements, as I thought that this was about what the OP started. But hey I am cool with that, if things have now changed.

    Well not to derail the point of the post, yes Microsoft also collects a lot of data on the players from their user account program. I am not show in their current CEO inherited this more than directed this, but as was reported at the time of the XBone launch concerns were voiced when MS added all that tracking and voice data collection. But at least the users were able to avoid having to use that ID system.

    Hey like MS, do you think Oculus should make this mandatory @DaftnDirect ?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    edited August 30
    wuzp said:
    snowdog said:
    Everything that @Zenbane said
    I think, what stokes the issue, is that everything people "fear/hate/loathe" about FB is personified by one individual; Mark Zuckerberg.  Once Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the original Google guys left; all the conspiracy talk about their companies "more or less" subsided or went away.

    Hmm, possibly, but only amongst the chatter of the average consumer. I've been in the Tech industry for over 20 years now, and it never matters "who" is in charge for those of us always working on the back-end technology. For us, the conspiracy theories are 100% active 24/7 for all companies. I know people personally who work at most of the big tech companies, and you and I could jump on a Zoom call right now with some of them and get the latest tin foil hat news.


    RedRizla said:
    So, if Facebook is so popular, why aren't there lots of comments defending this decision?

    Did you really just ask that? First of all, the people that defend Facebook are actually on Facebook. You're reading YouTube comments and asking why Facebook users aren't on YouTube defending Facebook?

    How many times has someone insulted reddit on this forum? Of those times, how many times has the whole of reddit come here to defend it? lol

    Well... this is what you are literally asking, "Why didn't a bunch of Facebook users log in to YouTube to find all the bad videos about Facebook and defend it!"

    So you're asking why a bunch of Facebook users are running around taking the bait dropped by online trolls? lol

  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,956 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 30
    RedRizla said:

    Can I anyone answer this question? When you create a Facebook account does this mean you are creating a webpage that allows anyone to see it? I know you can set privacy settings, but does creating a Facebook account allow anyone to see that webpage? Does this then allow people to try to contact you when they see this webpage?
    This is what my Facebook profile page looks like (with my real name edited out). If someone searches Facebook for my name, they will find a list of people who share my name (and I get a ton of results when I search for my name). If they click on mine, they will see this page. You can choose whether you allow friend requests to reach you from anyone, or friends of friends (which means nobody if you haven’t added any friends). You can also choose whether anyone can see your friends list.

    Now, I’ve created a bit of a connection between my VR identity and my real Facebook identity by using the same avatar image for both—if I want to be more private, I should probably use a different image. The Photos and Friends links don’t go anywhere, because I have nothing to show on my page, and have set those categories as private anyway.

    So in answer to your question, yes, having a Facebook account means that there is a page with your name and profile picture that people can search for. I think you’ll find that, given the number of people on Facebook that share any given name, people will have a hard time connecting that page to you, if you don’t fill out a bunch of extra information (and make it publicly-viewable) to help them narrow it down.


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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,198 Volunteer Moderator
    you mean that avatar isn't really you?
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  • wuzpwuzp Posts: 516
    Neo
    (Un)fortunately, Google Reverse Search and TinEye can't scrape FB.  That, or you changed your profile picture already.

  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,956 Volunteer Moderator
    wuzp said:
    (Un)fortunately, Google Reverse Search and TinEye can't scrape FB.  That, or you changed your profile picture already.

    I’ve set my profile to not be searchable by external search engines, in the Facebook privacy settings.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
    Its interesting [but inevitable] that FB is now looking to force on the general public, what was forced on us Social Influencers back in 2012. At the time if you wanted to connect your FB, Linkedin and other media promotions you had to use real names and or prefixes of to ensure parity of information sharing.

    I remember coming on this forum with the previous (and long lamented) permanent moderator, and having a discussion with some posters about anonymity - and how some had purposefully obscured their details. Feeling it was better to be in the shadows, rather than posting openly, using claims of avoiding cyber bulling and attacks for their views.

    Now we are at the position that all posters will be "encouraged" into removing that anonymity, having their past and current behavior define their access/functionality to purchases and hardware. I look forward to seeing if this in fact becomes self censorship, and makes the current unpaid moderators positions easier?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,375 Valuable Player
    edited August 30
    nalex66 said:
    wuzp said:
    (Un)fortunately, Google Reverse Search and TinEye can't scrape FB.  That, or you changed your profile picture already.

    I’ve set my profile to not be searchable by external search engines, in the Facebook privacy settings.

    You can also set your profile to not be Searchable within Facebook as well. So that the only people that can find you are "Friends." You can also set your profile to where nobody can send you a Friend Request.

  • Pixie40Pixie40 Posts: 506
    Neo
    kevinw729 said:

    Now we are at the position that all posters will be "encouraged" into removing that anonymity, having their past and current behavior define their access/functionality to purchases and hardware. I look forward to seeing if this in fact becomes self censorship, and makes the current unpaid moderators positions easier?
    Fun fact, "self censorship" doesn't work as an overall community. And Facebook really couldn't care less about any bullying or hate mongering if they tried, so long as they get their sweet sweet user data and it's not against Zuckerberg's current politics.

    I say "current" politics because I've become fairly convinced his political views are identical to whoever is giving him the most money.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,708 Valuable Player
    Pixie40 said:
    kevinw729 said:

    Now we are at the position that all posters will be "encouraged" into removing that anonymity, having their past and current behavior define their access/functionality to purchases and hardware. I look forward to seeing if this in fact becomes self censorship, and makes the current unpaid moderators positions easier?
    Fun fact, "self censorship" doesn't work as an overall community. And Facebook really couldn't care less about any bullying or hate mongering if they tried, so long as they get their sweet sweet user data and it's not against Zuckerberg's current politics.

    I say "current" politics because I've become fairly convinced his political views are identical to whoever is giving him the most money.


    I think you are not telling us anything we have not already deduced from over 20 years of social media usage. Part of the reason why some have reverted to anonymity is for the very good reason that if they were known they would be hounded for their views. The reason why we still have moderators across all the forums is because of the inability for some to police themselves and need greater or lesser sanctioning (a reason why this is one of the user score elements). 

    I have to correct you towards if FB cares or not. I would have said back in the 2010's they really did not care - but as social media has become ubiquitous and judicial, federal and governmental cases against criminality that has been caused by activities on their service they have seen their liability increase, and so are seriously looking at this. There is also the obvious point you have missed @Pixie40 - that along with the reforming FB - the sponsors and advertisers do not like to be associated with certain actives and vote with their money and support.  

    Changeable political views are as inevitable as social media and advertising - and all are steered by money. A factor that some VR owners are going to find out very soon!
  • Pixie40Pixie40 Posts: 506
    Neo
    Ah, but it's not Facebook enforcing it's own policies because they are policies. It's government regulations stepping in and saying "if you don't enforce these policies and stop misusing the data you collect we will do it for you." And that would affect the bottom line, according to Zuckerberg. Then again, he firmly believes that nobody deserves any privacy except himself. He's been publicly saying that privacy is an outdated concept, but the recent senate hearings show that he only applies that view to people other then Zuckerberg himself. Here, see for yourself.

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