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Would an 8.4" screen be too big? Samsung unveils new tablet

Dreamwriter
Rising Star
We know Oculus is getting a next-gen screen from Samsung for CV1 (thanks to a tech-exchange deal they made). We know it's gonna be higher res than DK2's 1080p and will have a larger FOV. Well, Samsung recently announced the Galaxy S tablet with an 8.4" AMOLED screen, resolution 2560x1600, and it's being billed as the thinnest/lightest tablet Samsung has made. Would that screen be too big for a Rift? Or could this possibly be the screen we're gonna be getting in CV1?
22 REPLIES 22

ThreeEyes
Explorer
"Dreamwriter" wrote:
As for Facebook, they also said that wasn't going to change one thing about CV1 - CV1 was too far along when the Facebook purchase was made for it to do much more than speed up the release and affect the final price. And Facebook said they weren't going to alter anything about the Oculus Rift at all, at least for now.

CV2 is where to look for alterations due to the infinite finances of Facebook.


Totally agree. I wasn't talking about CV1 and I had assumed that you weren't either. At E3, Palmer and I believe Nate both said the CV1 design was pretty well locked in.

I was talking about the future where the Facebook influence would come more into play. Down the road is where I see a divergence between fully immersive and AR type experiences and the AR approach seems much more appropriate for a metaverse kind of application.
But... but... but... I just NEED to know about the Baba! The Baba has me hypmotized! :shock:

nicorose
Honored Guest
2560x1600


Guys.. Just think of the majority! The majority dosnt have a PC to render a Game in that resolution (in 3D) with a constant high framerate. Mabe in 3-4 Years. But not now!

When the rift only runs on high end PCs for 3000 $ or Graphics Cards for 700 bucks nobody (but Nerds) will buy it. And that will be a Problem.

Maybe they should consider to make 2 Versions. One for the masses with a normal HD Display like the DK2. And one for VR Freaks with a big budget.

Dreamwriter
Rising Star
"nicorose" wrote:
2560x1600


Guys.. Just think of the majority! The majority dosnt have a PC to render a Game in that resolution (in 3D) with a constant high framerate. Mabe in 3-4 Years. But not now!

When the rift only runs on high end PCs for 3000 $ or Graphics Cards for 700 bucks nobody (but Nerds) will buy it. And that will be a Problem.

Maybe they should consider to make 2 Versions. One for the masses with a normal HD Display like the DK2. And one for VR Freaks with a big budget.

Doesn't matter what we think, Oculus has said a few times that the screen is gonna be a next-gen Samsung display with a higher resolution than 1080p. I agree with you that the first one probably shouldn't be higher res, and just use one of the other many ways to solve SDE than resolution, but I don't work with Oculus 🙂

Calibos
Heroic Explorer
Is there some technical reason that I am unaware of that means this 'anti 4k Rift till we have the GPU's to run it' meme just won't die?

4K+ ASAP to remove SDE from the getgo.
Play content at Lower RES till GPU's catch UP.
GPU's catch UP, play content at native 4K res.
Didn't have to buy a new 4K rift, already owned one, enjoyed no SDE from the beginning. Enjoyed native 4K content a few years latter with my new GTX 980ti

???????

MrMonkeybat
Explorer
As the "wants low res" meem has come up again I will quote myself from another thread.
"mrmonkeybat" wrote:
"willste" wrote:
Stop worrying about having too much resolution, thats a stupid problem to have :). Less demanding game engines will run at 4k easily. New ones will just have to up sample *shrugs*. Then hopefully in 2016-2017 we get some major hardware leaps that have the bandwidth to handle 4k and beyond properly.

Indeed I groan whenever I see someone bring this up. As someone who has for a long time been OCD about getting the native resolution of my screens I can kind of see where they are coming from but with the rift using barrel distortion and chromatic correction there really isn't one. If you go to the the "maintaining frame rate" section of this lecture he talks about using a different render resolution for every frame before applying the distortion at the native resolution. Apparently you can use render resolutions all over the place and people don't notice artifacts except for persistently very low resolutions being fuzzy of course.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020714

In that lecture you may also notice that the barrel distortion takes very little GPU time and this will scale up to higher resolutions linearly. So until it is announced that "100% distortion free optics confirmed" even mentions of exact half or third resolutions are nonsense, unless you are raytracing there is no native resolution of a pincushion distorted screen with chromatic aberation. There are also alot of great old and low end games like HL2 and Lucky's Tale that will run in a very high res on mid range cards. A high res screen will also allow virtual theater better than allot of big expensive TVs and projectors.

Anonymous
Not applicable
"nicorose" wrote:
2560x1600


Guys.. Just think of the majority! The majority dosnt have a PC to render a Game in that resolution (in 3D) with a constant high framerate. Mabe in 3-4 Years. But not now!

When the rift only runs on high end PCs for 3000 $ or Graphics Cards for 700 bucks nobody (but Nerds) will buy it. And that will be a Problem.

Maybe they should consider to make 2 Versions. One for the masses with a normal HD Display like the DK2. And one for VR Freaks with a big budget.


Well commits like these make me think why do you even have a voice at all? They could make these things 4k and it wouldn't effect you. All you would've had to do is lower the res in game until your system is ready for 4k. It's no different than how other monitors work right now. One version can do both things you just ask for... so I guess I don't see points like these at all. I don't think we'll see 2560x1600 screens tho xD

Na, there is really no reason they can't do it other than cost. Higher res screen do cost more, so I understand why some right now are saying it's pointless to give 4k screen atm, but the argument to say that you need a stronger computer to run these at 4k is just a stupid point by itself. Computers will get faster and faster... they already double my GPU performance and they will only double the performance of what they have now.

Than again, I don't see us getting 4k. It'll be nice, but I don't think we'll see 4k HMDs. At best we might get flexible screens at the 2k res, but I don't see us getting 4k. Remember, they said that these things will be at cost and they said it'll cost somewhere between $300-400. If you're hoping for a $250 or lower version... then you will just have to be behind one gen like everything else I fear. Who knows tho? They might have a lower version that doesn't have all the bells and whistles as this continues.

nicorose
Honored Guest
"They could make these things 4k and it wouldn't effect you. All you would've had to do is lower the res in game until your system is ready for 4k."

Yup sure you can, but the interpolation will look bad as hell. Imagine you have a 4K screen and only can play 1080p on it. The Picture will be just a muddyblur mess. Couse the Pixels will be scaled up to fit into, and that sucks. Its the same Problem with a monitor. Try to Play a Game in 720p On a HD Screen it will look messy and blury. See PS3 and Xbox 360 Games on a full HD TV. From the Sofa it will be okay but that right before your Eyes?... Nope.

And you forget one BIG thing. Its not only the resolution its also the fact that we need a stereorendering so 2 different Frames at that "high resolution" at the same Time. Thats increases GPU Power alot, if you want to play a Game in realtime in 75 Frames on a PC in 4K and Stereo! You PC must be able to render 150 FPS! to get 75 real Stereo Frames. And that in 4K. Thats intense! :mrgreen:
Sure, one day it will be no problem. But at the moment it will only work with GFX Cards for 800 Bucks.

MrMonkeybat
Explorer
Gaa, the fallacies, the fallacies! :roll:

"nicorose" wrote:

snip
Yup sure you can, but the interpolation will look bad as hell. Imagine you have a 4K screen and only can play 1080p on it. The Picture will be just a muddyblur mess. Couse the Pixels will be scaled up to fit into, and that sucks. Its the same Problem with a monitor. Try to Play a Game in 720p On a HD Screen it will look messy and blury. See PS3 and Xbox 360 Games on a full HD TV. From the Sofa it will be okay but that right before your Eyes?... Nope.
snip

If you go but a UHD tv and play a blu ray on it or a PC set to 1080 I promise you it will look... GREAT! Even if you press your nose against the screen compared to a 1080 screen the same size, contrast ratio etc, the UHD TV will look better with less RGB striping and aliasing. The example you use is even a strait 2:1 ratio so you can turn off all scaling interpolation if you like aliasing so much.

And guess what with the Rift after an image has been rendered it goes through barrel distortion and chromatic correction so you are going to get scaling no matter what you do! :roll: Ray cast games will still be rare tech demos! :cry: Unless you have one of those expensive future GPUs you complain about. So as there are no native barrel distorted screens there is no native resolution or 1:1 scaling to be had. But the higher the resolution the screen the BETTER it will be at uneven scaling of barrel distortions.

Did you bother reading the previous posts before writing that, I posted a good source:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020714
Go to the "Maintaining Frame Rate" section on the side menu. Because frame goes through the barrel distortion they where able to use a slightly different resolution for every frame and NO ONE NOTICED!

Anonymous
Not applicable
"nicorose" wrote:
"They could make these things 4k and it wouldn't effect you. All you would've had to do is lower the res in game until your system is ready for 4k."

Yup sure you can, but the interpolation will look bad as hell. Imagine you have a 4K screen and only can play 1080p on it. The Picture will be just a muddyblur mess. Couse the Pixels will be scaled up to fit into, and that sucks. Its the same Problem with a monitor. Try to Play a Game in 720p On a HD Screen it will look messy and blury. See PS3 and Xbox 360 Games on a full HD TV. From the Sofa it will be okay but that right before your Eyes?... Nope.

And you forget one BIG thing. Its not only the resolution its also the fact that we need a stereorendering so 2 different Frames at that "high resolution" at the same Time. Thats increases GPU Power alot, if you want to play a Game in realtime in 75 Frames on a PC in 4K and Stereo! You PC must be able to render 150 FPS! to get 75 real Stereo Frames. And that in 4K. Thats intense! :mrgreen:
Sure, one day it will be no problem. But at the moment it will only work with GFX Cards for 800 Bucks.


O.o what are you smoking? Can I have some? I been in the tech field for a while now and not once have I notice what you are talking about. Tech has come a long way from your CRT moniters you know. Most of the issue I have ever seen when going from a smaller image to a larger one has been incorrect settings on the computer it self. What's nice is that 1080p is 16:9 while 4k is also 16:9 making it really easy to scale both ways.

Those 800 buck gpus will come down to 600 this year... and 200 the year after that all while double performance (well 30%) They don't hold value like cars do simply because there are always better model is out there. This means everyone will have 4k access really soon, so why would you even worry about it now? Remember, OC doesn't come out till late 2014 or early 2015.

I have a feeling that stereorendering will also see a performance boost as the current way of doing is a bit ... well.. burt force? Drivers will also come about to allow 2 gpus to also help with cutting the work load per eye as well.

nicorose
Honored Guest
O.o what are you smoking? Can I have some? I been in the tech field for a while now and not once have I notice what you are talking about.


So you gonna tell me, that you NEVER noticed a bad scaled blurry picture (compared to HD) when you view an upscaled content on your normal 1080p HD Screen?

Scaling up 1080p to 4k is the same level as blowing up SD to HD. I seen HD Footage on an 4K TV. Yo got 4 times the pixels on the screen. And when you stand right in front of a 4K TV you also can see that because 1pixel will turn into 4 Pixels on the 4K Screen. So you will get "bigger" Pixels x4. That only simple math.

Dont get me wrong....
I want 4K also. But i have to bring up these concerns. Because Oculus sould be made for the masses like Grandma Erna and Uncle Rufus. Not only gaming nerds.


And now... Peace brothers... :mrgreen: