I tested the DK2.... I'm very disappointed. - Page 4 — Oculus
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I tested the DK2.... I'm very disappointed.

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  • kogashukokogashuko Posts: 179
    I really like mine. My only complaint is that playing it makes me feel like I am going to blow chunks.
    /
    /
    KogaShuko
    DK 2 - Received = Paperweight due to failure to cooperate between Nvidia and Oculus.
    Glad my livelihood was not resting on development!
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,300
    Trinity
    edited August 2014
    I just spent 20 minutes in Radial G - playing and sitting there like a berk during replays, looking all around - yes of course I got some weird brain/eye conflicts happening (day 1 for me remember) but if it's already this decent, this early on, in a game that is probably best not suited to the 'take it easy' ethos for early VR then I have high hopes for the future.

    I haven't suffered the stuttering in MOST demos I've tried, I think in sightline the chair I did - but there's so many diff ways to start the demos It could well be my error, overall it's been smooth.

    The only thing that makes me feel proper queasy is when I don't have positional tracking and I lean around! so am VERY glad DK2 has that. In radial G, the cars aren't exactly modelled with realistic thickness of panels but they look cool anyway, It's so cool to be able to lean out through the 'window' (ok should have glass there) and look at the sides of the car/flying craft thingy. I sat sideways in the craft as it did a few replay laps , at one point forgetting I wasn't really there and did the old 'ahh I'll just lean on the window frame' thing... lol..

    how many of us now do that slow VR hand reach out of uncertainty to check we don't hit real life objects!? :mrgreen:

    Am posting in this thread again just to say that it is what it is and it works, it is VR and a lot of it clearly comes down to software and graphics design choices. I've seen scenes that look jaw dropping and others than look crap - depends on the demo, textures, colour choices. Lighting is important for sure - medium lighting with obvious light sources looks good, dark lighting with neon looks beautifully vivid on the Dk2 (OLED power!), things to avoid atm would be large view distances and highly contrasting colours/lights (unless primarily dark).

    anyway, I can't wait to get on with developing now as this is more than good enough to really convey the sense of scale, depth and weight in a scene for us to build around. The majority of these demos were built with DK1 in mind when certain choices worked better on the faded screen.

    I'm keeping 4 folders CLASS A-D for the demos I try out and will sort them appropriately. BTW Sightline had some beautiful lighting in, a lot of those pure black scenes with glowing lights looks great on this - OLED again! That and positional tracking alone (nevermind the res increase) has more than pleased me over the DK1 test I had, though I'm sure DK1 had a couple of upsides definitely but that's technology and prototypes for you. We should all be excited for CV1 instead of labouring the point on stuff Oculus must already know about.

    Some of the most recent interviews with Palmer and Nate are quite telling, both in how passionate Palmer is (that he feels, I think, Somewhat negative/hurt by a lot of the comments and clearly he's doing his best) - he's stated clearly that positional tracking and pentile screen were the best they could do for that res and tech at that price at this time, and I think they are in the best position to have tried all the options as they said.

    Nate also offered a wry smile as he said 'A bit more delay on the CV1 isn't a bad thing', in context meaning: they are going to try to do even BETTER now than they had previously planned thanks to the FB money and no doubt researching/solving problems over time.

    Armchair critics really get on my tits, sorry, but Palmer actually got off his ass to make VR work, not you guys, and now you all appear to be experts on HMD design? where's your VR company ffs? :lol: And clearly the guy is worn out, 72 hour 'days' working on the DK2 release and SDK and busting a gut to get stuff to us asap and all we get is continual frickin' whining from those that can't see the potential and instead just want to bring everyone else down with them. :roll:


    They have no comment on things like curved screen, custom screens and all the important stuff which to me reads as "yes we have much better screens coming and don't want our competition to steal it just yet". So hang in there VR fans.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,300
    Trinity
    mikejt4 wrote:
    I have to say I agree. I thought the DK1 was amazing and couldn't wait for DK2.
    The weight doesn't bother me and I like the refinements in fit.
    The colour of the new screen is amazing and overall clarity is much improved.
    I'm noticing the black borders more than with the DK1, which is interesting - I'm not sure if it's real or just a contrast to the rest of the picture which is a lot clearer.
    BUT the biggest problem I have at the moment is the massive tearing and stuttering when I turn my head. It's NOT a low framerate - I'm getting over 80fps most of the time, never dropping below 78 - but I didn't see the same affect when using the DK1. It's not the animation stuttering - if I keep my head still, the graphics is smooth as silk.
    I tried killing off multiple monitors, shutting down everything else that was running - it made no difference at all. I can only conclude that there's some time of major issue with the display drivers for the device. There was also a lot of glitchiness getting started - black screen for ages, then weird mangled screens, then finally got the demo going. I didn't have nearly as much trouble with DK1.
    Anyway, here's hoping they sort out the software fast - the hardware seems pretty good!


    Yes, we all suffer these software problems at this time but not on everything. So even if just ONE cool demo works (and many many more than one does) without problem, then the DK2 is not a disappointment, it does what it says it would do and makes the player SMILE :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D < see, that's me after my 8th hour of VR (in my first day!), even with my legs shaking a little from pushing the envelope in my Radial G replay positional tracking test lol.

    Surely anyone with an ounce of intelligence and a little imagination would know these early teething problems will be overcome, and nobody has really started in Ernest yet on DK2 specific software, taking into account all the 'flaws' and mitigating them through design, lighting, colour choices along with many other things. It's the first step on the stairs leading to VR nirvana and thankfully MOST of us can see, and feel, that!

    I have absolutely NO disdain nor regret about buying a DK2 just becase we may have some messing around here and there to get SOME software gremlins sorted. The hardware itself is great, higher resolution would be my #1 request but it's still great as it is. I was looking at HMDs 10-15 years ago that cost 4+ times more than the rift and they couldn't even do a 5th of what the rift does! Many had ridiculous low FOV and resolution (ie 45 degrees and 640x480!), if you had patiently struggled and desperately waited through those bleak years you would actually respect and appreciate just how amazing the DK2 is, even with it's flaws. We can all see lots of room for improvement, esp oculus themselves who've not hidden the fact that it'll take years to do VR REAL justice, but I still don't get how anyone can buy a DEV KIT after being told NOT TO BUY one as it's not perfect nor ready for prime time, then come here to join/start a whinge-thread. :?

    And things like the latency reduction and all the stuff that has gone on behind the scenes while you lay cosy dreaming in bed at night and they are working on problems should be appreciated not forgotten just because there's some early teething problems. Palmer, Carmack, Abrash etc are on board - VR has never stood a better chance than this and if you want good VR then SUPPORT VR it's that simple. If DK2 isn't up to your standards then sell it and wait for CV1 (this isn't directed at the person I'm quoting btw but to anyone), it is primarily a developer kit and the vast majority of developers will look at it and see opportunity and possibilities NOT the unfortunate flaws and class them as 'unworkable'.

    DK2 has made me even more excited for CV1, not because it's poor but because it's great and I want more of a great thing. :mrgreen:

    I'm gonna stop posting in/bumping this thread now - the title isn't what VR needs sitting on OVR's front page. Will focus on positive threads, not because of fingers in ears and unable to see obvious tech flaws, but because it was already known and will achieve little other than possibly demoralise Palmer. There's much more to be positive about with the rift/VR than negative so my energy will now be spent doing that.

    When it's CV1 mass consumer product and you have complaints, by all means everyone keep starting threads and get your money back. This is a dev kit, it's a tool, develop software with it or quit complaining.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
  • panmasterpanmaster Posts: 215
    Art3mis
    edited August 2014
    I really would like to know what the resolution of cv1 is going to be.It matters becouse it is a big deal changer in terms of game development( gameplay,used assets, and so on). without this information you dont know how far away you can put your game objects in scene or if the video that you make is going to be enjoyable.YES.Rift is going to be fine product but without clear statement of cv1's resoulution developers shoot in the dark wiht their work. In my opinion going with 4k would be a better option. if they hit the market with lower resolution many consumers are going to be disapointed .I would rather wait 1 year longer and get 4k than anything lower in 4 months.The pixel density is just bad in dk2 and 2560x1440 wont make a lot of diffrence unless they use somekind of diffusor.Occulus team already know what are the specifications of cv1 but they still have to sell those produced units.60 000 thats the total number of dk2....after they send them out we can hear and see cv1 announcment,Its not like they are in haste now you know.They can make magic stuff and just wait...but there is also a big BUT... they cought developers attention and if the cv1 is 1.5 year away from know many devs can lose their patient
    SO its a dilema.That's why i think that they will go for 2560x1440 even if the quality will be questionable.+right know there is no single gpu capable of 3d 4k 90 Hz so its clear what the spect of cv1 would be if we see cv1 this year
    P.S nobody seams to mention it. maybe I am the only one who hates the smell of dk2's sponge.This chemical scents really puts me off
  • blito3blito3 Posts: 85
    dk2 is a step up in improved graphics and head tracking then dk1....and the consumer version can only benefit from the feedback of the dk2, if they custom built a screen with the pixels prescrunched into the shape of modified software view(saving processing time).
  • Jedi2016Jedi2016 Posts: 114
    I imagine the main "fix" of the CV1, from a consumer perspective, is that everything should just work perfectly fine right out of the box, without having to tweak this and edit that and extend displays or all that nonsense. Everything DTR, plug-and-play. As for the rest... if they expand the FOV along with, say, 1440p, the pixels could possibly end up being the same size visually, thus resolving absolutely nothing in terms of the screen door effect. Even 4K displays would still show visible pixels if you looked for them. If you're such a stickler for perfection that you can't look beyond the screen door effect as you would looking through an actual screen door, then maybe you should wait another eight or ten years for VR to get to your level of expectation. But by then, I'm sure you'll have all new expectations that won't be met.

    I also fail to see how any of this affects software development. Developing for VR isn't about resolution. If you're so worried about it, just render internally at 1440/4K and downscale. That'll future-proof ya.
  • panmasterpanmaster Posts: 215
    Art3mis
    Jedi2016 wrote:
    I imagine the main "fix" of the CV1, from a consumer perspective, is that everything should just work perfectly fine right out of the box, without having to tweak this and edit that and extend displays or all that nonsense. Everything DTR, plug-and-play. As for the rest... if they expand the FOV along with, say, 1440p, the pixels could possibly end up being the same size visually, thus resolving absolutely nothing in terms of the screen door effect. Even 4K displays would still show visible pixels if you looked for them. If you're such a stickler for perfection that you can't look beyond the screen door effect as you would looking through an actual screen door, then maybe you should wait another eight or ten years for VR to get to your level of expectation. But by then, I'm sure you'll have all new expectations that won't be met.

    I also fail to see how any of this affects software development. Developing for VR isn't about resolution. If you're so worried about it, just render internally at 1440/4K and downscale. That'll future-proof ya.
    its a big thing for game developers to know the target resolution and the things you can do with this information.clearly you do not create anything for vr:)
  • jngdwejngdwe Posts: 566
    I wish we could drop this entire thread into the ocean.

    Most of the problems we have right now with the DK2 are software related, or are fixable in software.

    The FOV issue isn't even a big deal. If anything, DK2 has a bigger FOV. I kid you not, with adjustments on the side set to half-way, I feel as though the FOV is noticeably bigger than in the DK1 with them all the way in (Using C cup lenses on dk1, B on dk2).

    The screen resolution problem comes down to opinion at some point. Yes I want higher resolution, but DK2 is nearing what I want in the first consumer model. 4K is completely unrealistic in CV1 due to price, bandwidth of available interfaces, and hardware requirements. Sure, you can have a 4K 90Hz CV1, good luck building that $4000 computer to get 60fps.
  • Jedi2016Jedi2016 Posts: 114
    panmaster wrote:
    its a big thing for game developers to know the target resolution and the things you can do with this information.clearly you do not create anything for vr:)
    They haven't shipped my damn kit yet.. hehe. Everything just runs at my monitor's native.

    When it comes down to it, though, there's nothing that says everything being sent to the Rift must be at the unit's native resolution, no more so than there is that I have to output 1080p to my current monitors. Recommended (and rightly so), but not required. And I know some people have successfully tested downsampling to the Rift. It works if your system can push the higher resolutions at the necessary framerates. Even if the CV2 ships with a 4K screen, it won't actually require 4K input, it will simply upscale whatever it receives, just as any other display does today. Wouldn't surprise me in the least for the majority of content on a 4K Rift to actually be rendering at 1080p. In that case, performance wouldn't really be impacted at all, only a reduced screen-door effect. I would argue that the increased cost of a 4K screen at this point, just for the sake of the screen-door effect, is not in any way worth it.
    jngdwe wrote:
    I wish we could drop this entire thread into the ocean.
    Agreed. But it's like Hydra. Cut off one head, two more shall take its place.
  • jonathan87 wrote:
    Hi guys,

    Today I spent the whole day to test the Oculus DK2 that I received this morning... and I'm very very disappointed.
    I will summarize, in order of importance, the problems encountered:

    1) The screen door effects is absolutely TERRIBLE. I didn't bought the DK1 for the low resolution, but the DK2 is still terrible. I can see clearly each pixel, and the details of the images are very very low.
    I tryed the oculus lens on the same distance on my Iphone with retina display and the result is similar, but better. The pentile matrix is simply horrible.

    2) The focus. Is impossible to have the correct focus on the entire image. If I can read perfectly the text (for example the oculus warning text) on the top and in the middle I can't read perfectly the text at the bottom. And viceversa.

    3) The lenses touch the eyebrow. And the lenses get dirty if I sweat.

    4) The DK2 is heavy if you wear it for more of 30 minutes... and the weight for the nose is too much (and there isn't rubber or something for it!), especially when you look often UP.

    5) if you try to clean the lenses they are easily scratched

    6) due to the screen door effect and the focus issue I have nausea after 20 minutes (I never had nausea in my entire life... and I tested a lot 3D TV, VPR etc).

    I know that this oculus DK2 is only a "DEV KIT"... and I bought it just for this reason.
    But with the screen door effects and the focus issue is really hard to use.
    However... there are also some good points:

    - The colours are good. The display has also good shadows and good black level.
    - The position tracking work really good
    - The SDK software is good.
    - THe persistance is really low
    - The various demo are great. This is the technology of the future.

    In summary I expected much more from this DK2 (and my pretensions were still quite low).
    The software is good, but the object itself is bad. The consumer version should be at least 4K, smaller, more light and with better lenses.

    These are just my 2 cents.

    I will give you $350AUD for it :mrgreen:

    Ok, you got a real laugh out of me for this! :lol:

    After reading about the plight of all you Aussies, I'm impressed with your great sense of humor!

    Good job!

    (Visited Australia back in 2000... great bunch of people!)

    Here's hoping your issues with customs or whatever powers that be that are keeping things tied up, gets worked out asap. :)
  • pewziepewzie Posts: 70
    Sharpfish wrote:
    Well I'm 'in' (finally) and I love it. I'm not disappointed in the slightest. It's exactly what I expected from the technical specs and a realistic expectation, furthermore the upsides are 'wow' to me. I simply can not dwell on a work in progress technical flaws when it's so clearly a stepping stone to the future. From the second I put the rift on and got a demo running (which all went very easily after I'd figured out the screen flipping/modes etc) my mind was fired up with possibilities and I was in for 3-4 hours with barely any motion sickness, only towards the end by pushing it in HL2 by moving super fast around the place on purpose to test myself, and that was also cos I hadn't slept for 24 hours (not due to the rift). Generally I'm very good with stuff like that, no motion sickness in reality, almost dead on average IPD (64-65).

    So, seriously, it IS a dev kit meant to provide enough of an experience to work on and finish your software and it does that just fine. If I was just a consumer and had dreamed of 'perfect' VR then maybe this wouldn't be what I wanted exactly, and I'm not just being a 'fanboy', but it's amazing. Consider the pittance we paid for these things, the quality generally of the build, packaging etc (which is extremely good imo for a 'dev kit') I'm just amazed we got something like this, at last, for that price with POSITIONAL TRACKING that actually fricking works, decent FOV, decent (though obv far from perfect) resolution.

    Screen door is seriously not an issue for a dev kit, I zone it out same with the FOV 'problem', same with the black smear - what little I saw, some people really over-stated that being an immersion breaker! It just looks like dancing shadows, no it's not perfect but it's easily over-lookable for the status the DK2 is and ALL THE POSITIVES IT PROVIDES!

    Aside from a brief go in a DK1 last year I'm essentially a VRgin, maybe that helps.. I dunno, but I was definitely more pleased than disappointed and I've only scratched the surface. No tech has made my mind race with possibilities like this has since I got my first computer (A spectrum) way back in the mid 80s!! Well done Palmer and Co and thanks a million for getting this tech to us this good with this many WORKING features and at this price, before we died!!!

    Any flaw that can realistically be levelled at the DK2, to me, is just an exciting chance/possibility to be improved and fixed in the future! No it's not really ready for prime time as a consumer device but that's mostly due to ergonomics and the fuss of the strap/eye relief adjustment for multi users, a simpler cleaner universal system would be great so you could pass it more easily to your buddy/wife etc without loads of adjustments - but the actual screen tech, fov , tracking etc is pretty much still a very very cool and acceptable experience for the masses imo, if it was packaged more slickly, and more readily worked without fiddling around with display modes, runtimes etc... Oculus are definitely on the right path here.

    I will give a more in-depth 'review' in a week or so when I've had a lot more time with it, but lowering my expectations via seeing threads like these may have helped because I was laughing like a kid at Xmas on the first couple of demos I tried (one of them was Lava inc coaster - very simple and nothing amazing graphically and still it felt awesome). After the laughing stopped I didn't grow bored or disappointed, I would sit there looking around for ages just imagining the posibilities, I did NOT focus on SDE, screen borders, Chromatic Aberration, black smear nor any light leak into the HMD, or the wire on the top of my head etc... none of it mattered, NONE of it. THIS is the dawn of true VR and that is what mattered - how could anyone think otherwise?

    The main thing and pretty much the only thing that is a strong negative for me is resolution and aliasing (some of that is software dependent as some things looked far smoother than others) and we know that's only gonna get better and better so I'm very pleased.

    Honestly I don't know how you guys are on the forum talking so much about what a let down it is instead of just jumping into your projects and getting on with creating worlds with this great new tech. It's all gonna get better and this was worth every penny. I'd have paid twice as much for this and been happy. You can quote me on that.

    BTW my positional tracking and ability to turn fully around to look behind me is working great, one of the best/most natural aspects and I think too many people are taking that for granted. I honestly could NOT be happy with DK1 with lack of positional tracking. I tried a demo without positional tracking and HL2 also didn't have it working I think? and both of those made me feel nowhere near as 'at home'. I have my camera set up dead on 5 feet and it didn't drop a beat.


    Sorry I rambled on but this device has me excited not disappointed. Any developer who can see the potential should be smiling from ear to ear not labouring the negatives of technical restrictions that OVR are working hard to sort out.

    To me pretty much the only big points are Resolution and FOV, but even the FOV is 'fine' for what it is right now, afterall you DO have a 'ski mask' of sorts on your face so it kinda ties in with reality lol. I'm not just playing it down either, the lack of super large FOV did NOT stop me feeling I was 'in' there...! Resolution is low but not so low things are not enjoyable, I guess everyone is so spoiled these days with their retina tablets etc... I happily make a concession to lower res for TRUE FREAKING VR PEOPLE!! COME ON!!!! :)

    Stop bringing VR down before it even starts, get to work on creating great experiences for it and let Oculus continue to improve it their side.

    :mrgreen:

    p.s Bring on CV1, I'll be there day one pre-order! Can't wait! 8-) (Cyber we need a HMD wearing smiley/emoticon!)

    Good read. Not tried mine yet as still waiting for my graphics card to arrive. I had an email teaser from Amazon that it would be delivered today, but whatever. :D

    I have to say its certainly easier for me to appreciate tech in development stages after being around for most of the growth in home computers and consoles over the last 30 years. When you have sat and enjoyed a spectrum you can certainly enjoy kit like this. I can also still appreciate spectrum games even now.

    P.S Love the avatar, ahhh memories !
  • ramonramon Posts: 60
    Hiro Protagonist
    erick wrote:
    jonathan87 wrote:
    The consumer version should be at least 4K, smaller, more light and with better lenses.
    As previously said, Oculus has stated for some time now that CV1 will be a superior product that addresses many of the items you've listed. I also wanted to add that 4K mobile screens are not currently available. More importantly, there are cost considerations.

    As with anything, there are trade offs. It's easy to demand every feature to be better. Oculus can't do magic and few people want to spend thousands of dollars to buy a HMD.




    4K screens are available!
    http://news.oled-display.net/auo-developed-5-7-inch-wqhd-amoled/
  • uvflyeruvflyer Posts: 134
    How can you be disappointed?! I found it way better than expected with all people talking about the very bad SDE and resolution. It's way clearer than I thought it would be.
  • saviorntsaviornt Posts: 1,951
    NerveGear
    Kids these days, sheesh.

    I remember when I thought Wolfenstein 3D and Doom looked realistic :lol: Ah, the good ole days.
    Current WIPs using Unreal Engine 4:
    Agrona - Tales of an Era: Medieval Fantasy MORPG
  • mrgreen72mrgreen72 Posts: 683
    Art3mis
    6i40g3.jpg
  • erickerick Posts: 125
    Brain Burst
    ramon wrote:
    AUO is ready to showcase the world highes resolution AMOLED with WQHD 2560×1440 Pixel or 513 ppi for smartphones.

    Ready to showcase is not "available". 4K will be available soon enough. It's not available now, it wasn't available when DK2 was designed and production started. It will likely still be too expensive by the time CV1 is available, but we'll see.

    The grammar and spelling on that site is terrible, by the way.
  • mrgreen72mrgreen72 Posts: 683
    Art3mis
    And this isn't 4K.
  • erickerick Posts: 125
    Brain Burst
    mrgreen72 wrote:
    And this isn't 4K.

    :lol: Yes, that too.
  • klasodethklasodeth Posts: 128
    Hiro Protagonist
    mrgreen72 wrote:
    And this isn't 4K.
    Maybe he meant that four thousand of them are available. :P
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