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Too many signs that Oculus is dead...

2

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  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    davidjc wrote:
    These posts are going to be funny in 6 weeks.

    I hope you are right, but right now is there is no way to believe that Oculus has anything to show us at all.

    "It’s 6 weeks until E3 2015, and we can’t wait to share what we’ve been working on."

    https://www.oculus.com/blog/render-the- ... -commerce/

    It may not be referring to CV1, but it's a good sign that Oculus isn't "dead".
  • GSSGSS Posts: 69
    Hiro Protagonist
    "It’s 6 weeks until E3 2015, and we can’t wait to share what we’ve been working on."

    https://www.oculus.com/blog/render-the- ... -commerce/

    It may not be referring to CV1, but it's a good sign that Oculus isn't "dead".

    Though that article seemed like it was mostly talking about mobile vr. Would be cool if there was a major announcement though. I'd love to see if they have anything that can take on the vive.
  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    GSS wrote:
    "It’s 6 weeks until E3 2015, and we can’t wait to share what we’ve been working on."

    https://www.oculus.com/blog/render-the- ... -commerce/

    It may not be referring to CV1, but it's a good sign that Oculus isn't "dead".

    Though that article seemed like it was mostly talking about mobile vr. Would be cool if there was a major announcement though. I'd love to see if they have anything that can take on the vive.

    Not to nitpick your point, but it's a company newsletter of which only 2 of the 5 entries are about mobile. I really don't think they're referring specifically to mobile with that last line. Surely there will be some mobile stuff at E3, but I think that's what GDC was mainly for, and with the GVR 2 coming out this week I don' t think there's much more they can reveal in that department.
  • GSSGSS Posts: 69
    Hiro Protagonist
    Not to nitpick your point, but it's a company newsletter of which only 2 of the 5 entries are about mobile. I really don't think they're referring specifically to mobile with that last line. Surely there will be some mobile stuff at E3, but I think that's what GDC was mainly for, and with the GVR 2 coming out this week I don' t think there's much more they can reveal in that department.

    Oh I thought the render the metaverse was gear vr. I could have sworn someone said that contest was gear. So two general announcements with render the metaverse and new staffing, gear vr stuff, then the comment at the end. It just seemed a bit weird to have the two previous paragraphs be about gear vr and then hop into oh yeah we have some cool stuff at E3 if it wasn't at least somewhat gear vr related. you may be right that there is some mobile and then also some pc based stuff.
  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    GSS wrote:
    Not to nitpick your point, but it's a company newsletter of which only 2 of the 5 entries are about mobile. I really don't think they're referring specifically to mobile with that last line. Surely there will be some mobile stuff at E3, but I think that's what GDC was mainly for, and with the GVR 2 coming out this week I don' t think there's much more they can reveal in that department.

    Oh I thought the render the metaverse was gear vr. I could have sworn someone said that contest was gear. So two general announcements with render the metaverse and new staffing, gear vr stuff, then the comment at the end. It just seemed a bit weird to have the two previous paragraphs be about gear vr and then hop into oh yeah we have some cool stuff at E3 if it wasn't at least somewhat gear vr related. you may be right that there is some mobile and then also some pc based stuff.

    It's just a general newsletter, probably the last before E3. I don't think there's any connection to be drawn between the random updates about staff or GVR. They're just saying, hey here's the latest news and we'll see you at E3 where we plan to show you what we've been working on.
  • wheatgrinderwheatgrinder Posts: 116 Oculus Start Member
    All current PC based VR is really just DEV KITS for 3rd Gen Mobile. There will continue to be small market for PC devices for enthusiasts but the focus will always be on eco system expansion. No huge PC VR market will ever mature. It doesn't have to be a huge market to be successful, because PC VR is NOT the end game.

    3rd Gen mobile AR\VR will be superior in every marketable way. Portable, un-tethered, connected and with huge consumer base.

    Sure AAA PC games look like big hits and get all the hype, but the real money is in the FREE\Cheap TO PLAY (PAY TO WIN) games on mobile phones. EVERYONE wants a piece of that pie and they are reaching for it via PC VR dev kits.

    The PC VR market though small is VITAL to mobile success because it develops the eco system. Its also a lot cheaper to fail with a peripheral like an HMD. Spend a 100 million on PC VR HMD and see if it really works like you think it will in mobile, if your right you can justify spending BILLIONS on making a mobile AR\VR device... if not, your only out the millions..

    We enthusiasts are being USED to test and prep the market for Mobile AR\VR.. and I LIKE IT!

    And yes, if you are wondering, I am an expert on EVERY TOPIC UNDER THE SUN :mrgreen:
  • ChivasChivas Posts: 206
    Nexus 6
    If Oculus is dead, they don't know about it, as they are still hiring. Unless of course the thing they can't wait to announce at E3 is their decision to drop VR and to start building ski goggles. The only sign I've seen is the community suddenly going brain dead, after seeing a decent HMD from Valve. :roll: Or it could be some the Facebook haters survived the jump off the cliff.
  • snappaheadsnappahead Posts: 2,302
    Trinity
    Chivas wrote:
    If Oculus is dead, they don't know about it, as they are still hiring. Unless of course the thing they can't wait to announce at E3 is their decision to drop VR and to start building ski goggles. The only sign I've seen is the community suddenly going brain dead, after seeing a decent HMD from Valve. :roll: Or it could be some the Facebook haters survived the jump off the cliff.
    QFT, mate. All this doom and gloom started the moment a competitor showed up..as if a competitor wasn't inevitable.
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  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,297
    3Jane
    I have three words to say about mobile VR : No Position Tracking (which requires a fixed point).

    I have three words to say about 120 FPS on a PS4 : Deceitful Marketing Trick (Google "Soap Opera Effect").

    I have three delightfully sounding words to repeat about Desktop VR : Going Horribly Right (which hopefully includes reaching a sufficient combination of body/voice/eye tracking).

    Because VR isn't about how good you are at ticking any one box (such as achieving the best mobility, the best FPS announcement, or even the best release date...), but about how good you are at ticking every last box.
  • wheatgrinderwheatgrinder Posts: 116 Oculus Start Member
    There are two types of people;
    those that can extrapolate from incomplete data


    Use seem to think no positional tracking is somehow impossible to solve on mobile?

    That said, I too love desktop VR, and I KNOW that its going to be happy land for a long time, but it will go away. Exponential rate of change man.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,297
    3Jane
    You seem to think positional tracking is somehow impossible to solve on mobile?
    No, I think you can solve it just fine right now through an external reference point. A fixed external reference point.

    So you can just carry your fixed external reference point with you, and when you want your mobile positional tracking you just drop it somewhere around you and stay next to it... specially if your mobile VR application supports positional tracking.

    Thing is, if that fixed external reference point you're carrying around with you could be a laptop, you could then offset a bunch of your smartphone drawbacks to it : The battery weight, the battery life, the fingerprints, the last-gen smartphone APU cost, heat production and power consumption... So you can end up with a cheap cool pair of VR sunglasses instead of trying to stick a fully weighted, fully featured smartphone to your face.

    Using a single fully fledged smartphone in a huge and ugly looking DK was only a proof of concept for Oculus VR to begin with : How small, light and cool looking can the CV1 get, once you've got rid of the clumsy looking single smartphone screen requirement from it ? First Sunglass shaped VR headset coming to Desktop GPUs within a year ? ^^

    Instead of the future of VR being smartphones, it could be that AR sunglasses are the future of smartphones.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,226 Volunteer Moderator
    yazze wrote:
    Except that there's no platform, no new SDK, tool or platform, there as been no upgrade or news for 10 months,
    No new sdk in 10 months? 0.4.3 came out 7 months ago, 0.4.4 was 6 months ago, 0.5.0.1 came out 2 months ago, a new one is in testing right now and the audio sdk has had two releases in the last 2 months.
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  • VRisingVRising Posts: 31
    Brain Burst
    If reviews are anything to go by, the lack of positional tracking in mobile VR doesn't mean people aren't having a positive VR experience. People are coming from either Cardboard VR or no VR. They don't miss what they don't know. Yes they may think it would be better to move around too but the same thing goes for seeing our hands, haptics, jumping around, smelling tasting, and everything else that makes it closer to real life. The mobile VR experience now is good enough with the right apps and will only get better. Mobile VR will be huge and will be much more adopted than its tethered counterpart.
  • VegasGh0stVegasGh0st Posts: 50
    Hiro Protagonist
    As time goes on i will have to agree, first bad move was making a mobile device before they even finished there first project, its not even like they needed the money to fund the consumer oculus. Now with each broken release of the SDK - Runtime (5.0.1 is a completely rushed unfinished mess, and they even took out duplicate displays, cmon now)
    Lastly the final nail in the coffin is the retard move by Sixsence to pull the razor hydra from shelves, leaving us with wonky and highly varied control schemes. kinect and leap have come to the rescue sorta, but again that leaves us with varied control schemes and additional purchases.
    Valve seems to have been doing everything right so far, as far as control and such but knowing valve Oculus Consumer may be on the market 3 years before they release.

    Rant aside, FIX Runtime 5.0.1 - add duplicate displays back in, and fix the detection issues, i cant stay on 4.4 forever.
    it makes playing new titles impossible.
    Nothing is impossible, just time consuming.
  • yazzeyazze Posts: 57
    Hiro Protagonist
    nosys70 wrote:
    that's exactly the point. convergence. It is about taking the best of everything you need to reach your goal.
    if a piece is missing, the you will not be able to reach it.
    Oculus was too early. now we got better screen, faster chips, device designed for VR (sensor, lens ?), cheaper prices, so somebody who would
    developp a new VR helmet today would probably start with different concept than oculus 2 years ago.
    and that is what probably stopped oculus. their design is obsolete, even if their learning are valuables. Unfortunately, convergence must also be followed by adoption.
    We have seen that with 3D on TV, convergence was ok, tons of screens are avaialble, glasses goes affordable, content avaialble. But adoption did not reach the required level.
    The best clue about that is when content (usually demo or beta provided by developpers) start to fade (and this is the case actually).
    there would be no shame from oculus to provide a DK3, with better screen, added feature (where is the nimble Vr project ?, why do we need a camera on pc when samsung can live without ?).
    if developpers have to go their own way by supporting other product (leap motion, vive) , all the learning will go elsewhere than oculus.

    I don't really care about getting a perfect screen (the DK2 is passable, and a slighlty better one would be fine. I know this can only get better). what i need is a way to get really VR, not locked in front of a camera, 360deg freedom, to be able to use my hands, a reliable direct to screen feature, i need Nvidia supporting their dual card render...

    there is no reason why oculus could not deliver that, even if we know it is not perfect. they could even provide that as an upgrade to DK2 (new lens ? add-on Nimble camera, dual usb cam light house ? or better wireless 9dof sensor ?).
    there are probably several thousand of developpers that would be happy to throw 100$ on an upgrade of their DK2 to explore new features.

    Fucking thanks for understanding, not being hypocrite and being smart.
  • yazzeyazze Posts: 57
    Hiro Protagonist
    Welby wrote:
    yazze wrote:
    Welby wrote:
    The Gear VR will never has the same power that a PC could has right now..

    To smoothly play and experience the CV1 you will probably need at least a GTX 980 that's both a bad and a good thing.

    A bad thing cause despite of Mobile VR like WearVR-GearVr etc you need to buy a powerful pc.. (but probably still cheaper then GearVR+Samsung S6) but the good and best thing is that you'll be able to play games REALLY.. REALLY different to what a Gear VR or even a WearVR could achieve.

    We're talking about playing games like Assetto Corsa,Black Desert,entire mmporg worlds that it will never possible to experience in a mobile VR experience.

    Right now,and that's pretty already clear,you could has an overall good experience on mobile VR,but yet it's FAR MILES AWAY from the optimal experience like you could have on PC..

    That means,MUCH worse graphic,much worse Fps( <60fps) versus the (>90fps) of PC, worste latency,for now(at least) no positional tracking.. and so on.

    So they're just two different kind of experience.. probably if we'll never has the same power of a current GPU inside a mobile phone (and we're not so far away :lol: but still i think we'll need to wait a bit before see a Titan X inside a smartphone :D ) and like that it's cristal clear that it's right to have two different kind of product:

    PC VR Headset to have THE BEST,SMOOTH,LOW-LATENCY,LOW-MOTION SICKNESS,BETTER GRAPHICS experience.. vs
    MOBILE VR Headset to have the BEST PORTABILITY,UNTHETHERED experience..

    However,i would leave this message here from the latest Oculus news release on their official page:

    You got it all wrong, this is typical "pc master race" rubbish ie. people who don't actually know anything about PCs, graphics and experience.

    Mobile VR, because it has a store/ecosystem ready, apps calibrated an optimized for these smartphone models, with highly efficient screen, gyroscope, and other things such as an internal integrated processor matching the built-in screen refresh-rate, or a back camera that can be use as a VSlam tracker and a front camera that can be used as an eye-tracker, makes for a WAY BETTER experience than a computer HMD.

    Also it's easier to market since everybody has a smartphone, so easier to manufacture and sell at a lower prices, and it's untethered.

    What you are referring to as nothing to do with the HMD itself, the graphic cards of your PC which varies from user to user, is not clocked on the same refresh-rate as the HMD screen making frame-rate and stuttering more common, it has higher latency due to the feedback time necessary between head movements, the motion sensor, the usb dongle, the processor, then the graphic cards, which in turn has to output with the specific HMD drivers which might have compatibility problem, images to the HMD. It is a mess of incompatibility, un-optimization, drivers, with no actual unified ecosystem.

    The same as mobile VR goes for PS4 and Project Morpheus: the reason why this HMD is said to have the best image and performance with up to 120fps, is because unlike PC this is a tight ecosystem that is way more stable, forward and optimized than the PC ecosystem. Console are programmed "close to the metal" to be optimized to play games that will work the same on all millions of units which all have the same hardware, and the Project Morpheus HMD is synced with the internal card refresh-rate like G-Sync, and has an ecosystem with a store that make distribution easy.

    So no PC HMD are not better because of the Graphic Card you may have.
    andyring wrote:
    EDIT: just noticed it's his first post, looks like i've been had!

    See above

    Well.. thanks to tell me that i do not know anything about PCs.. i'm sure you know them really well to say to someone else that doesn't know them..

    But please..

    I'm not talking about any Pc master race.. and i don't know why i should do that..

    I'm just saying.. if the smartphone are so WELL optimized.. and so good as much as PS4 could do 120fps (that pheraps are not even truly 120fps since they're using some sort of software technique to achieve that..),however there is a reason why we haven't games like Alien isolation on the GearVR isn't it?

    Well i don't need to speak more then..

    I'm just saying that MobileVR and so unthethered headset that use smartphone that has the same graphic quality and horsepower of a PC are just still away.. and that's not something that has told by Nostradamus (like you're saying with your fatal words "Oculus is dead.. :lol: ") but it's something that is so RIGHT NOW..

    John Carmack said that you should have not more then 60k triangles on the Gear VR.. and even with the S6 it will not change so much.. so i'm not saying we're not going to see awesome graphic and awesome games on mobile headset.. but still that (and it seems pretty obvius to me) we're gonna see even much "big" games on PC.. and that's why a "thetered" headset like Oculus will survive.

    And stop speaking useless about this "community already there" when speaking about mobile VR.. If so we shouldn't even using our PC right now but we all has a Mac in our home or a PS4 to play instead of a personal computer.. that's something absolutely not true..

    Oculus could has success as much as PCs in general have done since now.

    And please.. a bit of humilty speaking about something that you couldn't already know..and maybe let's start to stop this "Oculus dead" posts and just wait until E3.. i'm sure we'll be all surprised.

    I get what you say, of course we expect a VR Headset to be able to play PC games since that's how we've been introduced to VR.

    But due to the many problems of non-compatibility, latency, non-optimization inherent to PC fragmentation, it's unlikely that the next road for VR is on PC.

    Let me put it this way: like 3D TVs, which has been following the same cycles every 15 years for about 60 years now, VR could fail and the market not take-off until we get another chance 15 years from now. That's how paradigm shift work: VR is nothing new, what is new is Palmer Luckey breakthrough approach in the today's situation.

    Starting from there because of how manufacturing on large-scale is limited, until you have a ready product, that you can only send to that many developers/testers, who are the trendsetting community pushing it forward and creating content for it, you DON'T HAVE all your time. There's an approximate time-span of 5 to 8 years max before your products has completely lost following, interest and disappears if it has not successfully become a consumer product with mass adoption.

    Right now the clock is ticking bad. And the reason is because, as I said, PC which were the first platform targeted by Oculus present so many challenges that make it hard to created a "perfect" ie. consumer-ready product. HOWEVER Mobile and Console VR, because they are optimized, locked-framerate, unique configuration ecosystem might be the solution to bring such a product.

    So, my bet is Oculus will maybe release a DK3 but the first consumer version it will release will be a new Mobile HMD. Because this is the step needed in the road to bring VR and then achieve consumer-ready PC VR a few years down the road.
  • yazzeyazze Posts: 57
    Hiro Protagonist
    Cyril wrote:
    I have three words to say about mobile VR : No Position Tracking (which requires a fixed point).

    I have three words to say about 120 FPS on a PS4 : Deceitful Marketing Trick (Google "Soap Opera Effect").

    I have three delightfully sounding words to repeat about Desktop VR : Going Horribly Right (which hopefully includes reaching a sufficient combination of body/voice/eye tracking).

    Because VR isn't about how good you are at ticking any one box (such as achieving the best mobility, the best FPS announcement, or even the best release date...), but about how good you are at ticking every last box.

    Like many other people, you're pulling words out of your butt with actually bringing any substantial argument.

    Maybe that's why you're absolutely wrong: how is Desktop VR going horribly right when the market and content offer is LITERALLY stalling?

    It's not argument about whether or not one is better than the other, of course PC game/softwares are more powerful, look better. But VR/AR is simply 2x better on Mobile right now, not only from a technic point-of-view but also commercially.

    Put simply: PCs, while powerful, have the inherent problem of being awfully fragmented, un-optimized and un-compatible. There are literally hundreds of millions of different PC configurations and builds out there, every components whether inside (CPU, memory, GPU...) and outside (Screen, HMD, controllers, cam/sensor...) presents compatibility and sync issue since they're not built together, for example until G-Sync (and nobody has such a screen) the GPU refresh-rate is not clocked on the screen refresh-rate, drivers for one component to another as well as software are a chaos, and so until the appearance of Mantle/DX12/Vulkan these games and software were not optimized like mobile and consoles.

    However each iteration of smartphone is the same build, is optimized the same way, every components are the same, clocked the same, directly integrated into the device. In fact, you mention position tracking but guess what? On every smartphone there's a back camera, which means point-tracking (with VSlam) and AR. Might I add there's also a front-camera that can be easily used as an eye-tracker, as well as integrated mics and speakers.

    But the most important factor to consider is commercial (because again it's not a debate about which platform is better in term of power): an external HMD and all it's components are expensive, tethered and take lots of room...but almost everyone already has a smartphone.

    End point is that Mobile VR is the safest and best road to go right now to bring VR to mass adoption AND it is a necessary step to not only buy time but also pave the way for a consumer ready PC HMD.
  • Tim74UKTim74UK Posts: 1,369
    Nexus 6
    Cyril wrote:
    I have three words to say about mobile VR : No Position Tracking (which requires a fixed point).

    I have three words to say about 120 FPS on a PS4 : Deceitful Marketing Trick (Google "Soap Opera Effect").

    But motion interpolation actually works.... frames are rendered in-between sampled frames and pixels moved to account for the in-between movement... It actually works....
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  • Tim74UKTim74UK Posts: 1,369
    Nexus 6
    There are two types of people;
    those that can extrapolate from incomplete data


    There are three kinds of people in this world... those that can count and those that can't :lol:
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  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    Looks like I was wayyyyyyyy off! These posts only took two days to get funny, not 6 weeks! HA!
  • nightbane30nightbane30 Posts: 68
    Brain Burst
    I'm laughing so hard right now. A day after this is posted, Oculus announces CV1 and its release schedule. Too funny.
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  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,226 Volunteer Moderator
    I'm laughing so hard right now. A day after this is posted, Oculus announces CV1 and its release schedule. Too funny.
    No, he might be right and Oculus is still dead even though it's moving forward, which means... IT'S A ZOMBIE!
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  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    I'm laughing so hard right now. A day after this is posted, Oculus announces CV1 and its release schedule. Too funny.

    To be honest, I think the naysayers will mostly shift the goalposts now and say that because it's releasing after the Vive they were still right.

    But I think the influx of announcements fro Oculus will make that very difficult. This is why i kept saying to hold off on the doom and gloom predictions until at least after E3. But apparently it only takes two months of nothing new for people to lose all rationality.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    It's a g-g-g-g-ghost! :lol:
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • yazzeyazze Posts: 57
    Hiro Protagonist
    Don't thank me...
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    yazze wrote:
    Don't thank me...
    OK
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • raidxraidx Posts: 367
    yazze wrote:
    Don't thank me...

    Yeah of course... they announced it because you started this post... You are soo special
  • nosys70nosys70 Posts: 466
    Art3mis
    edited May 2015
    well , oculus could perfectly pursue a strategy for a product that goes nowhere (marketing wise).
    It is not because they made an annoucement that they win some hidden battle.
    Yes it is possible that oculus his dead, they just don't know it yet...
    Or worse, oculus could be dead... for us. Yes they will still sell to US Army , or some specialized business, but it would disappear as a PC product, and oculus will just rely on selling consultancy and license to samsung, sony etc...
    1Q2016 is far and it is totally possible that 80% of the market loose interest in VR or switched to another brand by this time.
    for me the annoucement of oculus look more like a desperate move. They announce now a product that will deliver only in 9 month. so the product specs are frozen (since how long ? dk2 is already pretty old, are they selling us crescent bay ? in that case why wait 9 months more ?) and at time of release, it could be totally obsolete.
    (especially if first review say: ok then we waited so long to finally get a slightly better DK2 ?).
    and where is the developper kit (DK3 ?) for this model ? do they expect developpers to start developping 1Q2016 ?
    So the CV1 will start with no content ? or is it so totally the same as DK2 that we will just need to flip a switch a recompile DK2 project for CV1, or even backward compatible ?
    what about the "new" features ?
    After the 3D hype, samsung is still selling TV with 3D feature, i doubt a lot of people still buy these TV because the 3D feature.
    They just buy a TV. the 3D comes for free (most of the time they don't even bother to purchase the glasses). Today people buy a TV for 4K feature, even if there is no content ready yet.
    But you do not buy a VR helmet to watch TV, while thinking, it's cool i can use it as VR goggle too ...
    and 1Q2016, you would probably not buy a VR helmet with 1080 screen or even 1440 with 100deg FOV and fuzzy picture, because you already tried that in early 2015 and you know it sucks...
    the next month will tell, especially when they will reveal the specs of CV1. then perhaps we will laugh....or cry

    and what about if mid 2016 they annouce a new helmet with high end specs, dual screen, 120deg FOV etc... ?
    I think they better should release crystal cove as DK3, and say the CV1 is for end 2016
  • CalanarCalanar Posts: 706
    Hiro Protagonist
    nosys70 wrote:
    ...for me the annoucement of oculus look more like a desperate move.

    I am floored. No matter what they say there seems to be a naysay.

    No announcement = the are dead because they haven't announced.
    Announcement = desperate move.

    Seriously? What could they possibly do except release a product literally today (in stores) that had input, eye-tracking and 4K with an included computer for 350$ that was powerful enough to run it that would please people? I am shaking my head wondering what they could do to make people happy.
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