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Who else is now worried?

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  • ThreeDeeVisionThreeDeeVision Posts: 2,087
    Wintermute
    Well said Kevin. Whoever has the proper input and content to go with it wins in my book and that is still very much up in the air. Valve has shown me that they are going in the right direction. They obviously understand the importance of hand representation in VR.
    i7 5960X @ 3.8 GHz | Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 PC2800 | GTX Titan X Pascal | Win 10 64 bit | Asus ROG PG348Q | EVGA X99 Classified
  • CalanarCalanar Posts: 706
    Hiro Protagonist
    For those that seem up in arms because of Oculus partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. It was just announced at E3 that Valve is also partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. Surprise!
    Michael Tenery, Software, RPG and Game Developer.
    Imagine Role Playing:
    http://www.role-playing.com
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    Valve wont drop Linux like a hot turd just because MS is in the room.
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • CalanarCalanar Posts: 706
    Hiro Protagonist
    VizionVR wrote:
    Valve wont drop Linux like a hot turd just because MS is in the room.

    I laughed way too hard at that, tip 'o the hat.
    Michael Tenery, Software, RPG and Game Developer.
    Imagine Role Playing:
    http://www.role-playing.com
  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    Calanar wrote:
    For those that seem up in arms because of Oculus partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. It was just announced at E3 that Valve is also partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. Surprise!

    :mrgreen:
  • ThreeDeeVisionThreeDeeVision Posts: 2,087
    Wintermute
    Calanar wrote:
    For those that seem up in arms because of Oculus partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. It was just announced at E3 that Valve is also partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. Surprise!

    I wonder if they will provide the Vive consumer version with a Xbox One controller or try and sell the Virtual Cinema Xbox One experience through Valve...

    :lol:
    i7 5960X @ 3.8 GHz | Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 PC2800 | GTX Titan X Pascal | Win 10 64 bit | Asus ROG PG348Q | EVGA X99 Classified
  • Tim74UKTim74UK Posts: 1,369
    Nexus 6
    Calanar wrote:
    For those that seem up in arms because of Oculus partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. It was just announced at E3 that Valve is also partnering with Microsoft on VR for Windows 10. Surprise!

    I wonder if they will provide the Vive consumer version with a Xbox One controller or try and sell the Virtual Cinema Xbox One experience through Valve...

    :lol:

    Putting it like that just makes you realise how ridiculous the whole xbox one controller bundle is...
    My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10
  • regionfiveregionfive Posts: 1
    NerveGear
    Well. I am. I read to the point where someone said " no pixels at all." Well i own the s6 with gear vr. There are definitely pixels and the Phone has aresolution of 2560x1440. That makes 1280 x 1440 per eye... a lot mored than the rift specs. And it is still not satisfactory. How can they say that. .*no pixels* :oops:
  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok :roll: .
  • Tim74UKTim74UK Posts: 1,369
    Nexus 6
    schmeltzer wrote:
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok :roll: .

    The difference... Valve already have an input solution that is rock solid....
    My Rig: - Gigabyte Z97 X5 MB / Core i7 4790K @ 4.4Ghz - Water Cooled Coolmaster AIO Loop (Push - Pull Config)/ 16GB Corsair Dominator ram at 2400Mhz / Palit Jetsteam GTX 980 OC edition / 250GB SSD OS / Program Drive + 2 TB hard drive storage / Win 10
  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    Tim74UK wrote:
    schmeltzer wrote:
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok :roll: .

    The difference... Valve already have an input solution that is rock solid....

    Yeah, but is still the The Dark Lords, right?

    About Valve's input, I will know if they are rock solid when I have have them. They sure look crappy.
  • RonsonPLRonsonPL Posts: 1,115
    Trinity
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok

    There are two options:

    1. That's just co-operation. Not really any "deal". Just support (like drivers downloaded through WU, no requirement of connected monitor, or VR-friendly environment in general).

    2. They really made some "nasty deal" and that would support my "don't count too much on Valve to be the savior of great quality PC VR in 2016", although that doesn't make any criticism of Oculus any less valid.
    Not an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore.
    Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash.
    Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for.
  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    RonsonPL wrote:
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok

    There are two options:

    1. That's just co-operation. Not really any "deal". Just support (like drivers downloaded through WU, no requirement of connected monitor, or VR-friendly environment in general).

    2. They really made some "nasty deal" and that would support my "don't count too much on Valve to be the savior of great quality PC VR in 2016", although that doesn't make any criticism of Oculus any less valid.

    I have no idea what that nasty deal would be. But then again, I am indifferent towards Microsoft, or any big company for that matter. Well, maybe Valve is the exception, I like them.
  • RonsonPLRonsonPL Posts: 1,115
    Trinity
    I have no idea what that nasty deal would be.

    Me too, but you never know.
    I could think of some very stupid moves Valve could do. I don't think they'll do it, but I was unpleasantly surprised many times before, so decided to not to exclude any possibility just on the basis of "nah... they wouldn't be that stupid/bad". ;)
    I'd like to like Valve again, but I am one of those still waiting for HL3, so... ;)
    I'll return to liking them if they prooved to be the ones who drive the PC VR ahead in good direction.
    Not an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore.
    Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash.
    Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for.
  • ScythariusScytharius Posts: 9
    edited August 2015
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  • snappaheadsnappahead Posts: 2,302
    Trinity
    Scytharius wrote:
    The Xbox controller is uncomfortable to use. I don't know how people came up to the thought of it being one of the best.

    I dislike Microsoft.

    Looks like I am buying a Vive.

    Nothing Oculus showed was impressive. Oculus Touch was the only cool thing to see.

    Everyone is going to be split up choosing what suits them: Vive/Oculus/Morph/Other headsets.

    Oh, and the whole 3rd person VR crap is really starting to piss me off. Where are all the 1st person games that everyone is expecting? Third person VR is just like playing on the 3DS. I don't want to buy a VR headset to play 3rd person VR games when I can just do that on my 3DS.
    It's hard to say why they call it one of the best ,but if I had to guess I'd say it's because it is.

    Valve is also partnering with Microsoft. I guess there's always the Morpheus. It's unlikely that Sony will be doing much with MS.

    Have you played any good third person games in VR? They can be awesome when they're well made. It's NOTHING like a 3DS game.
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  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    RonsonPL wrote:
    I'll return to liking them if they prooved to be the ones who drive the PC VR ahead in good direction.

    They sure have the best cards a.t.m. Competition is good.

    (And HL3 FTW 8-) )
  • ScythariusScytharius Posts: 9
    edited August 2015
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,907 Valuable Player
    schmeltzer wrote:
    Well, Microsoft ("The Dark Side", not my words) teamed up with Valve, and all of a sudden, that is ok :roll: .

    "misery loves company"!
  • ebone260ebone260 Posts: 148
    "I have never tried a VR HMD or a VR 3rd person game. I just speculate it is like the 3DS with the whole 3D aspect but having it in your face and not able to see anything but the game.

    It is definitely not anything like the 3DS. It is better than you'd think it would be but it still pales in comparison to good first person VR. And I don't think it's nearly enough to get someone to buy a headset.
  • kongkingkongking Posts: 93
    Hiro Protagonist
    Partnership with MS is a stupid thing to announce. MS is going to have to work with all the VR companies if they want to keep on going with the pc business. No reason to pick the one and only Oculus.

    Oculus's only news was the controllers and that's available with Vive and Morpheus for a good long while.

    I remember hazily how Carmack said "30k should be good, eventually eye tracking", (he made face of daydreaming when saying that) from some stage lecture event - that just shows they are lazy and forgot about it being available for years. Now it will be soon a real VR feature (both interaction and gpu load reducing thing)- another company is researching it and got it almost working.

    The real controllers (body&hands) are being researched in one another company, no hint of Oculus doing that.

    Wide fov and 4k screens are done yet by another group.

    Oculus did nothing but covered the Rift with nice fabric. And this 3d sound....... omg. Please let the real professionals develop that. I have absolutely no faith in some temporary gathered audio-engineers tinkering for easy money.

    They have fallen behind big time. Oculus is not the first choice anymore. At all.
  • CalanarCalanar Posts: 706
    Hiro Protagonist
    I guess I am wondering when the complaining stops and people "actually" vote with their feet and move on. I know I am crazy to think that people will finally decide, "The rift isn't for me," and be into the Vive. I guess there still is a fun aspect of sticking it to the man and telling them how much they suck and what fools they all are.

    That comment was definitely not directed at Kevin or those giving constructive criticism. It was targeted for the folks that say they aren't going to order a rift now because Oculus did x, and they have time to tell us 8-12 times a day why they aren't, even as the smallest bit of news comes out. At some point I just nod my head and think, uh uh, some valid points, you have an informed decision good luck with the alternative. Oh wait you are still here. Why? I prefer androids over iPhones but I don't go to Apple forums telling them why and why I will never buy another Apple branded, slick marketing, toll-gated money sucker again. If you like Mac, or iPhones. Good luck to you. It isn't for me. It's your money and your choice though. Vive la différence, get a Vive!

    It reminds me of the joke. How do you know someone is a Vegan?

    Because they can't stop themselves from telling you!

    Anyway, carry on, be worried, whatever gets you through the day. At some point though do realize the whole thing comes off as kinda silly. Good VR is coming to a face (or a facebook) :lol:;):mrgreen: near you, soon.
    Michael Tenery, Software, RPG and Game Developer.
    Imagine Role Playing:
    http://www.role-playing.com
  • MrMonkeybatMrMonkeybat Posts: 640
    Brain Burst
    The 3d sound is good one of there aquisitions, not something quickly build by quickly by a temporary gather. The 3d sound is also an open SDK free to use for any use.
  • Malkmus1979Malkmus1979 Posts: 763
    Brain Burst
    Calanar wrote:
    I guess I am wondering when the complaining stops and people "actually" vote with their feet and move on. I know I am crazy to think that people will finally decide, "The rift isn't for me," and be into the Vive. I guess there still is a fun aspect of sticking it to the man and telling them how much they suck and what fools they all are.

    That comment was definitely not directed at Kevin or those giving constructive criticism. It was targeted for the folks that say they aren't going to order a rift now because Oculus did x, and they have time to tell us 8-12 times a day why they aren't, even as the smallest bit of news comes out. At some point I just nod my head and think, uh uh, some valid points, you have an informed decision good luck with the alternative. Oh wait you are still here. Why? I prefer androids over iPhones but I don't go to Apple forums telling them why and why I will never buy another Apple branded, slick marketing, toll-gated money sucker again. If you like Mac, or iPhones. Good luck to you. It isn't for me. It's your money and your choice though. Vive la différence, get a Vive!

    It reminds me of the joke. How do you know someone is a Vegan?

    Because they can't stop themselves from telling you!

    Anyway, carry on, be worried, whatever gets you through the day. At some point though do realize the whole thing comes off as kinda silly. Good VR is coming to a face (or a facebook) :lol:;):mrgreen: near you, soon.

    You know, I was wondering the same exact thing earlier today, Calanar. Well said.
  • Warren989Warren989 Posts: 52
    edited June 2015
    The 3d sound is good one of there aquisitions, not something quickly build by quickly by a temporary gather. The 3d sound is also an open SDK free to use for any use.

    "3D sound"? No thanks! Some of us have high end sound procs/receivers with 11.2 surround sound and do NOT want some crummy headphones giving "3D sound" out of 2 drivers.

    I really don't get why this is even included. I thought they said long ago they would not focus on added costs such as this?

    Even a cheap 20$ pair of wired Sony's would beat the included HP's hands down, forgetting Sennheiser or Shure are even a thing...

    Having HP's included only ensures more dev's will not include options for full positional (5.1 and up) sound, and *only* use emulated tracking via stereo sound which is already a thing in many variations.

    Just seeing a virtual world is only half the senses, what about actual full 3D sound? You cannot come close with just a 2 way (stereo) system, not even close.
  • andrewtekandrewtek Posts: 976
    Art3mis
    Warren989 wrote:
    The 3d sound is good one of there aquisitions, not something quickly build by quickly by a temporary gather. The 3d sound is also an open SDK free to use for any use.

    "3D sound"? No thanks! Some of us have high end sound procs/receivers with 11.2 surround sound and do NOT want some crummy headphones giving "3D sound" out of 2 drivers.

    You have 2 ears, not 11+2. Positional audio allows your eyes and ears to agree on where a sound originates. For listening to music or watching a movie, your 11.2 surround sound might be great. But for VR, accurate positional audio is better.

    Please consider reading this article:
    http://blog.codinghorror.com/3d-positio ... and-hrtfs/
  • Warren989Warren989 Posts: 52
    andrewtek wrote:
    Warren989 wrote:
    The 3d sound is good one of there aquisitions, not something quickly build by quickly by a temporary gather. The 3d sound is also an open SDK free to use for any use.

    "3D sound"? No thanks! Some of us have high end sound procs/receivers with 11.2 surround sound and do NOT want some crummy headphones giving "3D sound" out of 2 drivers.

    You have 2 ears, not 11+2. Positional audio allows your eyes and ears to agree on where a sound originates. For listening to music or watching a movie, your 11.2 surround sound might be great. But for VR, accurate positional audio is better.

    You may only have 2 ears, but you're ears notice the difference between something that's actually in-front of you, off to the right, behind you etc. With only left/right, all that sound/positional info will have to be emulated, which sounds incredibly fake compared to actually having speakers in-front of you etc.

    Having actually made games with full 11.2 surround sound, there's little doubt there's a night and day difference.

    Maybe you're just confused about what I'm saying. You need positional tracking in games, I never said you didn't, but you need a full set of actual speakers to take full advantage of that. My point was including cheap HP's ensures that this variation of positional tracking is more biased towards stereo tracking vs multi channel tracking.
  • jetpicjetpic Posts: 7
    You need only 2 speakers - one for each ear and a software solution to "spatialize" sound. If you wanted to achieve same with hardware solution you would need infinite number of speakers. 11.2 simply isn't good enough. With good software solution 2 is better than 11.
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmI9-l3a6FM

    Warren 989, I found this just for you so you can see what real positional 3d audio sounds like, it has beaten any amount of speakers ive ever heard with just the 2 in a pair of headphones, please listen to this, and let it show you why this is better for the use than 11.2 surround or however many speakers you think is "better"
  • Warren989Warren989 Posts: 52
    jetpic wrote:
    You need only 2 speakers - one for each ear and a software solution to "spatialize" sound. If you wanted to achieve same with hardware solution you would need infinite number of speakers. 11.2 simply isn't good enough. With good software solution 2 is better than 11.

    I still don't think some people are getting what I'm saying. Of course you need some sorta 3D positional algorithms to triangulate where a sound is coming from within a game, then relay that back to wherever the player may be standing in-game. I never said otherwise.

    With a 2 way software solution however, the perceived sound locations are limited. If sounds are being produced outside of the immediate left/right in-game, it will be emulated to try and spatialize the sound. There's only one problem, It's coming out of 2 speakers glued to your head! Your ears will know that the sound is not coming from a fixed point based in the real world, only 2 fixed points giving emulated distance/spatial awareness, which is not nearly as convincing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmI9-l3a6FM

    Warren 989, I found this just for you so you can see what real positional 3d audio sounds like, it has beaten any amount of speakers ive ever heard with just the 2 in a pair of headphones, please listen to this, and let it show you why this is better for the use than 11.2 surround or however many speakers you think is "better"

    As impressive as that may be, the problem that I have with HP based positional 3D audio is that it feels like the 3D is flat. Like the 3D is limited to a circular 2D arc going vertically around my head. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but I was never convinced the sound was actually coming from in-front of me or directly behind me. When I hooked it up to my 22.4 surround sound system it sounded better, but not by much. Which makes sense since even if the original recording was multi-channel, youtube is 2.0; so yea, in that case a multi channel system would sound weird, unless you post process the mix in real time into something like Audyssey DSX or DD IIz, which I did. Once that was done, it sounded phenomenal. I could actually hear a full soundstage!

    The best example I can give is like comparing a RedBook audio CD with a 5.1 SACD, no comparison. Thing's just sound more real, like you can pinpoint exactly where things are coming from.

    At any rate, I can see bringing this up was a mistake. It's like explaining color to a blind man. Unless you've actually heard a true audiophile grade setup in such a configuration, it's impossible to explain, since people have no reference point. It's just a shame that us niche audiophiles never get our way :p
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