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VR rendering PC's by AMD

EarlGreyEarlGrey Posts: 886
Nexus 6
edited June 2015 in General
I find this news piece very interesting:
http://www.roadtovr.com/amd-creates-vr- ... t-quantum/

AMD creating a designed-for-VR-PC that is just a little box. I think they're on the right track, this is possibly the future direction of PC rigs. No more the ATX form factor, but you buy a cube/rig from AMD or nVidia, because after all in the future the most important aspect of any PC will be the rendering capabilities for virtual reality purposes.

I'm pretty sure AMD and nVidia would surely like to take over this market, instead of leaving it as it is now where they only make the chips on the video cards. The GPU companies are gonna get huge.

Comments

  • genetransfergenetransfer Posts: 605
    Hiro Protagonist
    it's interesting, and probably good taking the guesswork out of a pc build for new comers, but what happens the year after if vr moves upto 120hz - I'm sure retailers will milk the price way above what it would actually cost to build an equivalent. the great advantage of a standard pc is you make it's form factor look like anything you want, build it into a desk if you want, and swap out parts as needed. on pc you can't guarantee anything unless a dev build just for that pc spec - vr will iterate fast which is why a console type setup is a little questionable at this time, but just my initial reaction I could be way off.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,226 Volunteer Moderator
    It's interesting that the AMD Quantum is currently running on an intel cpu. :)
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  • EarlGreyEarlGrey Posts: 886
    Nexus 6
    Well, think of it this way...

    When you buy a PC today maybe 70-80% of the overall cost is non-GPU related. You have to buy chassis, motherboard, ram, cpu, psu, and other things.
    Imagine if you could buy a PC just as good for the same price (or lower) but where maybe 50-60% of the cost is the GPU.

    I think that's the thinking. PC's are expensive, because they're badly designed.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    kojack wrote:
    It's interesting that the AMD Quantum is currently running on an intel cpu. :)
    :o
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
    Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV
  • saviorntsaviornt Posts: 1,951
    NerveGear
    As the entire internet gets faster, the more we will be able to process / render "things" off-site rather than needing a beast of a machine to render locally. NVidia GRID technology is an example of this. It's basically just a crap ton of computers running massive amounts of GTX 980's / Titans. Once we are at that point, then computers will basically just be thin clients / terminal computers.
  • obzenobzen Posts: 713
    Nexus 6
    So basically, a SteamBox.

    Wait a minute...
    DK1 FREAK...Ntbt8Ya.gif
  • RonsonPLRonsonPL Posts: 1,115
    Trinity
    kojack wrote:
    It's interesting that the AMD Quantum is currently running on an intel cpu. :)
    :o

    Why the shocked face?
    Intel CPUs are far better in single-threaded calculations, they're better in low latency gaming. AMD is many years behind, so it's perfectly reasonable to use competitor's CPU, if the alternative is to cripple the performance of the most advanced product they have.
    They can admit they have no answer to Intel in high-performance gaming CPU segment. But they cannot afford to lower their benchmark scores for their newest and greatest HBM-equipped GPU. Reasonable step.

    OFF-TOPIC
    That Zen CPU better be really good, because otherwise... well... we already see what Intel does and what doesn't. Lower turbo clock on Skylake CPU, just a cheap thermal grease instead of soldered IHS, high prices etc.
    This is the most important segment for the VR progress in the future, and as of now it wobbles on the edge of extinction (meaning: noone gives a damn, no CPU production lines optimized for performance in gaming. It's a 180° different direction to low-power, which is more and more dominant lately.
    I hope VR takes off with a bang, and Intel and others will quickly realize there's a potential here.
    Not an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore.
    Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash.
    Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for.
  • MrMonkeybatMrMonkeybat Posts: 640
    Brain Burst
    If they can get a decent CPU of their own (fingers crossed for Zen) There might be gains to be had by putting the dual GPUs and CPU all on the same interposer die sharing the same stack of High Bandwidth Memory 16 gigs or so required. Then use that spinning Sandia heatsink to cool it coated in graphene for good measure. Graphene flakes can also be mixed into the molten aluminium or copper for improved heat conduction. Whatever happened to that Sandia heat sink is it ever going to be used on something?
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    The foot print of that thing is hardly little, Earl. It's a mid tower laying on its side with another box mounted above to house the water coolers. And the PSU is a separate box all its own housing a standard sized unit.
    Also, all the wires are still required, they're just not shown, and we all know how much you enjoy wires. :)
    Cost? I guess around 3k.

    Yeah, no thanks! I'll build my own VR PC.
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    Yes, I will always probably build my own rigs as well.

    Excited for AMD to come out with some new CPUs (hopefully more competitive this time).
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
    Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV
  • willstewillste Posts: 675
    Brain Burst
    Yes, I will always probably build my own rigs as well.

    Excited for AMD to come out with some new CPUs (hopefully more competitive this time).

    The world of CPU's is in dire need of competition. Its been years since Intels chips have had to make significant performance leaps. 10% every couple of years in uninspiring.
  • kernowkernow Posts: 733
    Trinity
    saviornt wrote:
    As the entire internet gets faster, the more we will be able to process / render "things" off-site rather than needing a beast of a machine to render locally.

    I think that will be yet a long way away for it to be generally practical since it isn't just the bandwidth, but also latency (1 millisecond per 64 miles of fiber distance [roundtrip], not counting router latency), and a company willing to get enough high-end hardware to be sufficient to cover its customers throughout the day in many several dedicated locations all over the country (remember the fiber distance latency issue... they would need a sufficiently rigged server farm with no more than 120 miles radius around them to stay under 2 ms latency under great conditions), and the cost of all this being low enough that customers will be willing to pay monthly to counterbalance the cost of buying the rig themselves (not to mention willing to update their client side hardware occasionally despite having offloaded it to a service), and cable companies to consistently have policies that would make the whole thing not pointless (re, traffic shaping/throttling, bandwidth caps, etc).

    And... holy crap the mess that will happen if a server farm went down, or there is a fiber outage (business rely on them will come to a complete halt, none of the general customers will be able to do squat).
  • EarlGreyEarlGrey Posts: 886
    Nexus 6
    Latency is a huge issue for VR. They're alright fighting to save a few ms here and there. Adding 20-50 ms. (in best circumstances) would be like going back to the square 1. Network latency is also very unpredictable. You need smooth experience in VR.
    I don't think remote rendering will be a thing in the next 10 years. Even firewire/hdmi cables don't have enough bandwidth for for 4K at 90hz, let alone dual 4K at 90hz.

    Local rendering units with a direct line to your VR headset is what we need.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,297
    3Jane
    willste wrote:
    Yes, I will always probably build my own rigs as well.

    Excited for AMD to come out with some new CPUs (hopefully more competitive this time).
    The world of CPU's is in dire need of competition. Its been years since Intels chips have had to make significant performance leaps. 10% every couple of years in uninspiring.
    AMD was stuck in a 5 year CPU architecture cycle with it's Bulldozer blunder, during which Intel stopped upgrading it's CPU performance (+20% more instructions per cycle combined with -20% overcloking ability = hardly any performance gain since 2011) without even been caught up.

    2016 is the year AMD finally breaks out of it's Bulldozer cycle, having survived through it's console deals, and demonstrates what happens after it's learned it's lesson and throws 5 years of delayed desktop improvements in a single CPU.

    Which also means there should be TONS of cheap second hand Intel quad-cores from 2011-2015 for sale, as PC enthusiast get their first chance in 5 years to perform a worthwhile CPU upgrade.

    Although the post-Bulldozer AMD CPUs might be just a few short months too late for the CV1 launch date, unfortunately.

    Basically 2016 is the year for massive (unprecedented ? ) desktop CPU performance gains, huge GPU performance increase (high bandwidth memory...), the availability of Windows 10 and it's direct X12 (a good reason for even casual users to buy a new PC that year), huge promotions on pre-2016 PCs (both first hand and second hand), not to mention the availability of 802.11ad Wigig which possibly tops all of that good news put together by itself : Making 2016 the perfect year for a CV1 launch (although 2016Q2 might have been a better choice in some aspects).

    And VR enthusiasts have had 3 years to save up for that upgrade (if not 5 years, due to a lack of a worthwhile CPU upgrade path).

    One thing missing for VR that I haven't heard of : Dual-GPU VR video cards specialized in low latency, for the high-end VR enthusiasts.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,297
    3Jane
    EarlGrey wrote:
    I find this news piece very interesting:
    http://www.roadtovr.com/amd-creates-vr- ... t-quantum/
    Imagine AMD and Oculus VR partnering to put them for sale on the CV1 order page : User friendly , 100% Rift compatibility guaranteed, affordable (assuming AMD doesn't price it 1500$), increased mobility and more suitable for a lounge, all combining into an instant win for VR.

    Not to mention PS4 and XboxOne are both powered by AMD : Portability !
  • willstewillste Posts: 675
    Brain Burst
    Cyril wrote:
    EarlGrey wrote:
    I find this news piece very interesting:
    http://www.roadtovr.com/amd-creates-vr- ... t-quantum/
    Imagine AMD and Oculus VR partnering to put them for sale on the CV1 order page : User friendly , 100% Rift compatibility guaranteed, affordable (assuming AMD doesn't price it 1500$), increased mobility and more suitable for a lounge, all combining into an instant win for VR.

    Not to mention PS4 and XboxOne are both powered by AMD : Portability !

    AMD cant afford to sell its stuff at cost or a loss which is possibly the only way that would work out. It is in the red... Sadly they need profitable ventures.
  • EarlGreyEarlGrey Posts: 886
    Nexus 6
    Cyril wrote:
    EarlGrey wrote:
    I find this news piece very interesting:
    http://www.roadtovr.com/amd-creates-vr- ... t-quantum/
    Imagine AMD and Oculus VR partnering to put them for sale on the CV1 order page : User friendly , 100% Rift compatibility guaranteed, affordable (assuming AMD doesn't price it 1500$), increased mobility and more suitable for a lounge, all combining into an instant win for VR.

    Not to mention PS4 and XboxOne are both powered by AMD : Portability !

    Well, the thing is, let's imagine AMD or NVidia deciding to make their own "rendering pc", where they focus on making everything as cheap as possible, barebone costs, PSU, motherboard, memory, etc. only what is required, but overload the unit on the GPU side, like 3-4x more GPU performance than you'd normally get in a high end PC rig. And the costs overall would be the same.

    I'm sure this can be done, because motherboard makers, cpu makers, ram makers, psu makers, are all trying to sell their "premium" products at as much high price as possible. So we buy overloaded motherboards, overpowered PSU's, branded RAMs, and mismatch CPU's. When has anyone stopped and asked what motherboard drives their mobile phones? What ram is inside their mobile phones? It simply is irrelevant.

    The same should apply to VR rendering units, we should not care about the hard drive, fans, memory, cpu, motherboard or anything. The how many millions of pixels it renders per second should matter the most.

    The problem with having the average Joe putting together his PC rig is that he picks the wrong components. He's creates a mismatch combo from hell, unoptimized, overbloated in some aspects and bottlenecked in others. He might get the best CPU, the best GPU, the best memory, but the worst motherboard.

    Having experts from AMD and nVidia put this thing together isn't such a stupid idea.

    There's a reason why PS4/Xbox machines are so cheap and last so long, they're put together to last and Microsoft and Sony can get a better deal buying hardware components, plus they know what they're doing, they're not gonna overspend on some components and skimp on others, the machines are balanced for peak performance in all aspects. The problem with PS4/Xbox is that they're not good enough for the VR of the future.

    If you want to render realtime hyper-realistic worlds in 2x4K panels at 90hz then we'll need to leave the PC behind and move onto something more like a GPU box.
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