Everyone who compares the failure of 3D tvs to Oculus Rift — Oculus
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Everyone who compares the failure of 3D tvs to Oculus Rift

TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
Nexus 6
edited February 2016 in General
I consistently see people comparing the failure of 3D tvs to the Oculus and I cant understand why?
You know why 3D tvs failed? Because everyone ALREADY had a tv! Who in their right mind would spend a couple thousand dollars plus glasses just for a tv they already HAVE!? You know why the Oculus has so much potential is because
1. Absolutely new technology
2. Adds entirely new depth to entertainment
3. Opportunities to be used for medical and business purposes
4. You don't already have one at your house!
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Comments

  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,725 Valuable Player
    Well of course you're right, if the correct message gets across to those hard core gamers like my friend who told me he can play games in 1440p and some in 4K - why would he want to puke over something that isn't as good?

    Now, i tried my best to explain that it's about the experience and i haven't felt queasy at all when using either dev kit but he wasn't listening - the only way is to get one on his head.
  • ennogsennogs Posts: 230
    Art3mis
    Trytiped wrote:
    I consistently see people comparing the failure of 3D tvs to the Oculus and I cant understand why?
    You know why 3D tvs failed? Because everyone ALREADY had a tv! Who in their right mind would spend a couple thousand dollars plus glasses just for a tv they already HAVE!? You know why the Oculus has so much potential is because
    1. Absolutely new technology
    2. Adds entirely new depth to entertainment
    3. Opportunities to be used for medical and business purposes
    4. You don't already have one at your house!

    You know why 3D tvs failed? Because everyone ALREADY had a tv

    If that is the case then HD TV, 4K HD and ultra 4k HD would have failed because people already have a TV. 3D TV didn't fail because people already owned a TV. It failed because 3D gets boring quickly and there was and still is a lack of decent content.

    If the rift doesn't get decent content and lots of it then the rift may also fail.
  • tranceology3tranceology3 Posts: 804
    3Jane
    The people who compare the Rift to a 3D TV are most likely people who have not tried VR, and don't understand it. I think they believe that what you see in the VR headset is a big screen that is 3D, similar to a TV, but much bigger. I don't think they understand that what you look at is true 3D, similar to how we view the world we live in now with the amazing features of head tracking and positional tracking.

    To me, the most obvious reason why 3D TV failed was because of the glasses, and headaches that were caused. I also hated the overdone 3D, where you had to strain your eyes to focus. VR is natural, easy on the eyes.
  • nosys70nosys70 Posts: 466
    Art3mis
    3D is not a failure, it is a technology that is here to stay.
    but it has limited use and so it is a niche.
    VR is a niche too,
    Who has said the we will all get 3D TV displaying 3D content every hour of every day.
    That is plain stupid as much as saying we will all wear a VR helmet a spend hours a day with it.
    Those dreaming of VR being something universal like smartphones or tablets are just plain wrong (or 50 years too early).

    VR helmet is an accessory to play VR content, like a 3D TV is an accessory to play 3D movies.
    the hardware will only reflect the offer of the content available.
    Like you don't expect every TV program or movie to be in 3D, you don't expect everything to turn VR, just because
    it is hot today.
    Especially if you consider the gap between the price tag and the service offered.
    3D on most TV is free, but a very few people spend the additional 100$ to get a pair of glasses or even the additional 10$ to get the 3D bluray version.

    Another point to consider is the ability to create content.
    what killed CD was the missing ability to record them. It started way too late.
    Every storage media that is released without the recording ability is doomed to fail.
    shooting 3D is also difficult , and you can count on one hand the 3d cameras avaialble.
    So 3D can be compared to a read-only media.
    Shooting 4K for a 4K TV is avaialble almost with the first 4K TVs. Almost any camera on the market can now shoot 4k.

    Creating VR content is awfully difficult (and include creating 3D content).
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player
    I think 3D TV was a bit of a failure... it was hyped by the electronics industry because they need new tech to arrive every few years to keep sales high. I remember when 'HQ' stickers started appearing on VCR's way back when, in order to sell them as new tech... so at least 3D is a real function mixed in with the sales hype.
    In reality it just isn't convenient, you can't watch 3D unless everyone in the room who wants to watch the program wears the glasses... it's either a little dim (if you have the passive) or dim & flickery (if you have the active shutter), not to mention wearing the things over prescription glasses... and did it really add that much to the experience?
    Program providers in the UK at least made up their minds and quietly dropped the service and I can understand why, and it's the industry hype of these minor technologies that can taint people's view of truly major tech like VR.

    VR has some similarities in that it's not the most convenient thing to wear yet, and it could be argued that it's being hyped a little in order to improve PC/console/component sales, but the difference is it does something unique by putting you in the game.
    Watching a virtual cinema in VR is something of a non-starter, for me at least, as it's just a better all-round experience sitting back and watching a large-screen TV. But for just about everything else, VR really does add a lot to the experience.
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  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    Content.... search for blue ray 3d movies.... prolly less than 10 results (hobbit and a few others)

    VR already has quite a bit of content with many 360 videos every day, I dont have enough time to keep up with all the new ones TBH. 360 cameras like the kodak, samsung and nokia are starting to make there way into stores so there will be a huge increase to content.

    Games are coming on thick and fast and many games have 100+ hours of content. so much content already in games that you have to choose between a few and that is only going to increase.

    not only that but its silly comparing a limited screen such as a flat panel 30inch LCD compared to HMDs that shutter your world and basically is surrounding you in pixels, with all sorts of tracking to fooling the consciousness into thinking you are there...
    StreetViewVR you can spend 20 min in and go to all those places you have wanted... in the future this will be a live stream also and not a static video....

    lol we will end up paying for concerts and events for the video stream to HMDs instead of actually going there IRL mark my words.

    3d TVs don't have the dynamic platform, as they ran on a TV... a win PC can code basically anything visual for them with plugins, apps and programs
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    Synthetic wrote:
    Content.... search for blue ray 3d movies.... prolly less than 10 results (hobbit and a few others)
    No. That's not true at all. There are over 600 3D Blu-Ray films.

    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/search.ph ... ion=search

    There are hundreds of currently for sale 3DTVs on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/b?node=5969289011

    In any case, I wouldn't consider 3D a failure. The hype has died down, for sure, but most of the biggest films each year continue to release in 3D. Most popular consumer hardware (like PS4, for example) support 3D Blu-Rays by default, and many TVs have a 3D option. It may be niche, but it hasn't died.
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  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    I stand corrected from cybereality.... when I searched for movies to play in Cineveo... I could only find Hobbit, Terminator Genisis, and Star Trek that I wanted In .avi/.mkv codec to play

    I do hear stories of people getting 3d TVs and then not using the stereoscopic media only 2d.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    The only time I've seen 3D TVs compared to VR is when it's used as a cautionary tale about content for new media hardware. Content (or lack thereof) can make or break VR just like it could make or break 3D TV.
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  • tranceology3tranceology3 Posts: 804
    3Jane
    Synthetic wrote:

    I do hear stories of people getting 3d TVs and then not using the stereoscopic media only 2d.

    Hear's another one to add to your list. I bought an LG 65" 3D TV in 2012. Came with tons of glasses. Probably watched 2 movies with other people in 3D, and haven't since. Played a good amount of PC games in 3D, but overtime the novelty wore off. I haven't used the 3D on my TV since 2013, it just never really pulled me in.

    I bought a theater projector and specifically did not want 3D, and likewise when buying my next 4K TV I will care less for 3D; I wan't more features that I will actually use.

    Unless 3D TVs become glasses free, I believe it will die out. Now that VR/AR is emerging, people are going to care less about doing 3D on a TV with glasses.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    Yeah, I can agree with that. I was really excited about getting a 3D projector back in 2012 (with a 115" screen, very nice). However, after the first few months, I rarely bothered with 3D movies (and I'm a huge 3D fan as well). At the beginning there wasn't a lot of content, and the content that was there was not "blow you away" amazing.

    I mean, there were some well done documentaries, and certainly some decent animated films and what not, but the majority of the content left something to be desired. Especially with the amount of poor 3D conversions, and lackluster 3D effects even in some native productions, it just didn't add a great deal of value over watching the same movie in 2D. Once you add in the darker image, flicker, ghosting/cross-talk, comfort issues, battery life, added cost, etc. there were a lot of negatives to overcome.

    VR is very different though. There are new interaction models with VR (namely head-tracking, and motion controllers when they arrive) so you can't play a VR game on a 2D monitor and have the same experience. Also, the experience itself is just better and way more compelling. For example, playing a horror game in VR is at least 2 or 3 times scarier than playing on a monitor, while a 3D horror film may be only marginally more scary if at all.

    I do still use my projector, but mostly for playing PS4 and watching 2D video content. However, I do have a 3D monitor at home, and that does get some usage. Unlike 3D movies, 3D games on the PC *are* actually still compelling and much more immersive than playing in 2D. Of course, I'd prefer VR titles (if possible) but for older or non-VR supported games, stereo 3D is still a nice win for me.
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  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    thanx cyber, for not having batteries with the Rift!!

    rift is easy just launch game/video and pick it up from desk onto head... it works and the wow factor is 50 times that of 3D
    a few things still need sorting like auto-centering or "use steamVR's/oculus runtimes centering" and away you go

    its easy enough to leave connected and just put it on for the experience, once it is set up.

    I did go "off" the HMD for about a week to play other games... but as a peripheral that you can use for certain tasks its just highly valuable to be able to go into VR and use it rather than a flat screen.
  • TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
    Nexus 6
    Truth be told I cant recall anyone I know withen my lifetime that ever intentionally went out of their way to buy a tv just for 3D, 4K wasnt a failure but it def didnt catch on nearly as quick as 1080p. There are still many who consider 1080p the standard. :?
    Point is Oculus= new technology = entirely new market
    3D tv= tv with 3D
    giphy.gif
  • zork2001zork2001 Posts: 538
    Trinity
    edited February 2016
    3d can add alot when done right watching on the right screen. In fact I have been shooting a lot of my own 3d lately and playing it on the rift with success. I think we will see 3d have a new revival once HMDs are high enough resulation.

    Even on the DK2 with it’s crap resolution if you watch any of the scenes form Oculus Real Porn; they did such a good job with the 3d it literally feels like you are standing in the same room with no eye strain what so ever. I defiantly would like to see full movies shot that way.
  • BloodletBloodlet Posts: 733
    3Jane
    Here in the UK alot of tv's are 3D ready but not advertised as 3D tv's. Seems it actually puts people off buying them because of the bad press.

    I know one person who intentionally bought a 3D tv but now rarely uses the 3D feature.

    I've been interested in 3D since I first looked through a victorian sterioscopic photo viewer in a museum over 30 years ago. I toyed with the idea of buying a 3D tv myself but couldn't afford it at the time. After my friend bought his and I watched a few movies on it I couldn't justify the expense for the interesting yet gimmicky experiance.

    Since owning a DK2 and watching 3D movies in a 3D theatre. This is the only way to watch 3D movies at home now.
  • crim3crim3 Posts: 385
    Nexus 6
    I do still use my projector, but mostly for playing PS4 and watching 2D video content. However, I do have a 3D monitor at home, and that does get some usage. Unlike 3D movies, 3D games on the PC *are* actually still compelling and much more immersive than playing in 2D. Of course, I'd prefer VR titles (if possible) but for older or non-VR supported games, stereo 3D is still a nice win for me.
    I also wanted to mention 3D gaming. I LOVE it. I can't barely stand the idea of gaming in 2D anymore.
    The big difference with 3D TV content is that you can adjust stereo to look as close as possible to how you would see it in real life, just like VR.
    It's also a problem because it takes time to understand how stereo separation, convergence and FOV work to tune it right, and only works correctly from a fixed position relative to the screen. Not very user friendly, specially with convergence hidden as an advanced option in 3d vision and the FOV setting dependent of each game.

    And I like very much to watch 3D blurays in my projector, but I don't have many occasions for that, so it may be a reason to not to be bored of that already.
  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    "I consistently see people comparing the failure of 3D tvs to the Oculus and I cant understand why? "

    Well, I am sure it comes up in discussions, but I don't feel it's really an issue.

    The biggest problem for VR is that in order to understand it you need to put a headset on,
    and for the average Joe that's gonna be a challenge.


    (for the record: I think 3D gaming on PC is amazing, you should try it if you can).
  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    For my own experience I own a 3D LG TV and its amazing to see movies there, its pasive 3d. Who says there is no content for 3D TV? My last movie was "Pixels" in 3D, there are a lot sites offering 3D movies and content.... ;)

    Cant wait.... this is the longest months of my life waiting for something....
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  • whoa182whoa182 Posts: 381
    Trinity
    I've seen that comment a lot on youtube videos... people saying that VR will go the way 3DTV did. Isn't 3D standard on many high end TV's these days? We have 3D on my Sony Bravia 4K LED tv, and we use it occasionally...

    One of the best uses of 3D for me was in the movie Gravity. I saw that at the cinema and it truly added to the experience in my opinion. Did anyone else think the same?

    People who even bring up 3DTV in the same sentence as VR, probably have never used good VR. It's completely different! VR actually adds a lot to the experience and is actually useful and creates a whole load of new experiences and feelings.

    I never got that excited for 3D TV. I mean, it was cool... but VR makes me excited like the first time I got my first consoles when I was a kid. I'm super excited for VR.. more than any tech that has come out in years. It feels like it will be a game changer, unlike 3DTV. Most people can't even imagine what VR is like... which is why they probably think 3DTV that is up close to your face.
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  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    Love my 3d t.v. and I didn't even buy it for the fact it was 3d, or that it's curved which IMHO looks great too. I bought it because it was OLED. OLED, 3d Curved T.V. couldn't be more out there if it tried. Best looking T.V. I've seen to date.


    Rift should do fine as long as they are in it for the long haul. It needs people like me to show the oblivious how game changing it is. I don't know anyone else that is buying it. Be interesting to see how many have it in say 12 months.
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  • shadowfroggershadowfrogger Posts: 502
    Trinity
    Love my 3d t.v. and I didn't even buy it for the fact it was 3d, or that it's curved which IMHO looks great too. I bought it because it was OLED. OLED, 3d Curved T.V. couldn't be more out there if it tried. Best looking T.V. I've seen to date.


    Rift should do fine as long as they are in it for the long haul. It needs people like me to show the oblivious how game changing it is. I don't know anyone else that is buying it. Be interesting to see how many have it in say 12 months.

    My friend won a OLED tv, my god they are amazing. That to me is what the next generation of TV's are(not LED 4k). Colours are amazing and absolutely no motion blur, I feel sad when I look at my TV haha. Curved was good as well as it reduces the glare immensely. My next TV will be 4k OLED curved when they come down in price(a lot), I just hope that it doesn't die off like plasma because of the expensive price.
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  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    zork2001 wrote:
    Even on the DK2 with it’s crap resolution if you watch any of the scenes form Oculus Real Porn; they did such a good job with the 3d it literally feels like you are standing in the same room with no eye strain what so ever. I defiantly would like to see full movies shot that way.

    Yeah, they make great quality 3D content. But I think you meant Virtual Real Porn (Or I wasn't aware that Oculus was active in the adult industry too :lol: )
  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    Love my 3d t.v. and I didn't even buy it for the fact it was 3d, or that it's curved which IMHO looks great too. I bought it because it was OLED. OLED, 3d Curved T.V. couldn't be more out there if it tried. Best looking T.V. I've seen to date.


    Rift should do fine as long as they are in it for the long haul. It needs people like me to show the oblivious how game changing it is. I don't know anyone else that is buying it. Be interesting to see how many have it in say 12 months.

    My friend won a OLED tv, my god they are amazing. That to me is what the next generation of TV's are(not LED 4k). Colours are amazing and absolutely no motion blur, I feel sad when I look at my TV haha. Curved was good as well as it reduces the glare immensely. My next TV will be 4k OLED curved when they come down in price(a lot), I just hope that it doesn't die off like plasma because of the expensive price.

    I have a four year old Panasonic 3D plasma, and the picture quality is stunning. No real reason to buy a 4K set as yet - there's virtually nothing out there.

    As for 3D, it's not a failure. It just didn't take off the way people were expecting. A pretty large minority of new release films are in 3D, so the format is far from dead. The main problem is that there are so many movies out there which use 3D poorly, but watch Avatar or Gravity on a good 3D tv and I'd defy anyone to say that the 3D doesn't add to the enjoyment.

    Another problem is that, in the UK, Sky have all but dropped 3D. Allegedly due to lack of interest, but IMO more likely that it showed up how hugely they compress film images. Watch a 3D blu-ray and then watch the same film on Sky 3D and there is no comparison. The 3D is nowhere near as impressive.
  • helifrekhelifrek Posts: 114
    Hiro Protagonist
    I bought an Epson 2030 1080p 3D capable projector, built a 152" screen in my bonus room and got a pretty kicka$$ surround sound 3D blu-ray combo. I have to say, the first 3D experience was very disappointing, until I went deep into the menus of both the Blu-ray player and projector and actually set them up correctly. Found a good youtube video of this kid with a machete playing around with his 3D camera that blew my wife and I away! We were pulling our heads back to try and get away, she was screaming! It was awesome. Everything else has been mediocre......

    The Rift though...... I don't have much to compare it to, some giant vr arcade game from 18+ years ago, a Google cardboard and a Gear Vr with the Gear Vr giving me the biggest "wow" factor. I have been aware of the rift since the Kickstarter campaign and have been patiently waiting ever since.

    I know that for the people that do get (or try) a rift (or vive, psvr whatever) will instantly change their minds if they have previously compared Vr to a 3D tv. I got rid of my Gear vr shortly after I bought it ( lack of content, before the actual store had opened) but it was an amazing experience for me at the time an is not even slightly comparable to the best 3D experience with my projector!
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  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    3Jane
    I would not say that 3D tv's failed, in fact I would say that they were actually a success considering what you had to wear for it. If it failed, it was because people had to wear glasses to watch it and nothing else really.

    When actual 3D becomes available(it is already but very very very expensive) for actual consumers at normal prices, I suspect 3D to pick up a whole lot more then it has done now.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,131
    Wintermute
    Syrellaris wrote:
    I would not say that 3D tv's failed, in fact I would say that they were actually a success considering what you had to wear for it. If it failed, it was because people had to wear glasses to watch it and nothing else really.

    We bought a new TV recently. Pretty much all the mid-range models we looked at had 3D built in as a 'free' feature, including the one we bought.

    The reason we don't use it much is because there's not much 3D content worth watching. Even when a movie is available on 3D Bluray, it can cost twice as much as the 2D version, and I have to check before buying in case it's a crappy 2D->3D conversion rather than a real 3D movie shot in 3D.

    Also, frankly, most movies don't really benefit that much from 3D. If all the interesting stuff in the shot is in the middle distance, there's not much of a 3D effect. You need action widely separated between foreground and background to emphasize the effect.
  • Captain-i0Captain-i0 Posts: 51
    Brain Burst
    VR is very different though. There are new interaction models with VR (namely head-tracking, and motion controllers when they arrive) so you can't play a VR game on a 2D monitor and have the same experience. Also, the experience itself is just better and way more compelling. For example, playing a horror game in VR is at least 2 or 3 times scarier than playing on a monitor, while a 3D horror film may be only marginally more scary if at all.

    Your math is off by a factor of about 100
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,629 Valuable Player
    notsram wrote:
    Another problem is that, in the UK, Sky have all but dropped 3D. Allegedly due to lack of interest, but IMO more likely that it showed up how hugely they compress film images. Watch a 3D blu-ray and then watch the same film on Sky 3D and there is no comparison. The 3D is nowhere near as impressive.
    There was certainly a loss of picture quality with Sky TV but it was more down to resolution than compression in my opinion... I think Sky was transmitting side-by-side over 1080i which would have been affectively 960x540... not much better than watching a DVD on an HD tv! Bluray is definitely better with full resolution but limited to 24p to keep within the bitrate capabilities of existing cables etc. good for film but not so great for sports events which Sky was at least providing.

    It's difficult to find any info on 3D bluray disc sales but if the shelf space devoted to them in my local HMV is anything to go by it must be less than 10% of the (dwindling) bluray disc sales, and that's with just about every TV and bluray player sold today being 3D capable... so this has to be down to be a lack of interest, or at least not enough interest to warrant the few pounds extra the discs cost.

    The other problem is everything is moving to on-demand... sadly too many people today prefer convenience over quality, so it won't be too long before we lose the choice to buy the good quality discs over the poor quality delivery systems. I have a 4k TV but I have a feeling 4k blurays won't be popular enough to halt the switch to on-demand and I won't ever get the full value out of the TV.
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  • rlabellerlabelle Posts: 215
    Art3mis
    I don't think 3d TV's were a failure at all. The push for 3d led to an abundance of movies and games to be written in a 3d format, paving the way for Vr. It is so much easier to convert media to VR when all you have to do is warp the image and add head tracking. Adding stereoscopic 3d after the fact is extremely difficult as many effects such as shadows and reflections are nearly impossible to post render in 3d effectively. If not for 3d TV's we probably could not see VR HMD's until 2020.
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  • AntDX3162AntDX3162 Posts: 839
    Trinity
    Trytiped wrote:
    I consistently see people comparing the failure of 3D tvs to the Oculus and I cant understand why?
    You know why 3D tvs failed? Because everyone ALREADY had a tv! Who in their right mind would spend a couple thousand dollars plus glasses just for a tv they already HAVE!? You know why the Oculus has so much potential is because
    1. Absolutely new technology
    2. Adds entirely new depth to entertainment
    3. Opportunities to be used for medical and business purposes
    4. You don't already have one at your house!

    Because the hassle of putting the glasses on. Because it's wearing Shades in a room that is dark.

    VR will speak for themselves once people start freaking out about how real it is. People will not want to go back to 2D. It will spread on it's own like algae w/ sunlight and high nitrates but in a good way.
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