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Why are the people who "Hate Oculus" and "Canceled their order, and getting a Vive" still here?

Rayvolution
Heroic Explorer
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, and everyone here has every right to be here. (Well, unless @cybereality banned you! :wink: ) But Ive been lurking these forums for a while, long before I actually registered and started posting, and one odd thing about this community always has be raising an eyebrow.

There seems to be a lot of people here who have totally ended their relationship with Oculus, canceled their Rifts, bought Vives and are still posting on these forums constantly complaining about how terrible/evil the company is, and how this delay has ruined all their expectations.

Now, the thing is, Oculus is only a few weeks behind (at worst, if you were a March 28th'er like myself). First of all, I don't understand why people or so deeply disgusted by a company only being a month behind. The closest launch I can compare a Rift or Vive to would be a console launch, and can you name a single console in the past 15 years that didn't have launch problems and delays? Even large companies like Sony can't keep up with demand and it never quite goes right.

Secondly, I don't understand why these people who obviously are extremely excited to get a Rift (or Vive) as fast as humanly possibly would cancel their order? All that does is hurt your chances of getting a HMD, not help it? Are these people so fickle that they lack any self control and everything they do in their lives are knee-jerk reactions?

(Warning, silly hyperbolic example below! :blush: )
It simply doesn't make sense to me. That's like going to the movie theater to watch a big release you've been waiting for, for months only to arrive to find out all the seats are taken because they accidentally overbooked, and if you want to see the movie you'll have to wait in line for 2 hours for space to clear up. So in a fit of rage, rather than seeing the movie you've been waiting for 8 months to be released all the while keeping up with all the news, trying to avoid the spoilers, trying to stalk the actors, because you have to wait 2 hours longer than expected you completely abandon the entire movie and storm off. So now that you stormed off you lost your place in line and you'll have to wait until the hype dies down and you can see the movie in 2 weeks?

Even sillier, because you were so angry that you couldn't see this movie, you decide to see another movie coming out a week later, it's very similar to the first movie but the funny thing is, rumor has it that movie may have the same booking problem. But you try anyway.

Now, I understand that example is very hyperbolic (and completely ridiculous because that's not how a movie theater works). But I feel that's how some of these people are acting, and the reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Now, to add to all this, these same people are still on the Oculus forums complaining about their canceled orders and/or gloating about their Vives arriving.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy on either end, I just decided a Rift was the best for what I wanted out of VR as I'm after the sit down or standing (but not moving) experience. Both HMDs are wonderful products. But if you decide to jump ship (even if it was a rash decision) why are you still here and not at the Vive forums? If you went to the store intending to buy an XBox One and ended up getting a PlayStation 4 would you still regular the XBO forums?

If this post comes across as cruel or crass, I apologize. That's not the intent. This wasn't meant to be a rant as much as a genuine honest debate/question about the intent of the people here who aren't Rift preorderers/owners. I'm just curious why so many anti-Oculus people are here if they're so unhappy, and already have or will have their Vives? I've never seen this type of behavior on any gaming or console forum in my life. Sure, there's blind fanboys everywhere, but those blind fanboys don't just float around in the "enemy" forums ranting about how evil they are. Usually when someone abandons a platform they abandon all aspects of it because they've moved to the other platform's community.

The main reason I bring this all up is it seems over the last few weeks these forums have been really, really tense. Everyone seems on edge and ready to snap, and a lot of it is the Rift (hah!) between the people who are angry/disgusted and the people saying "Chill out, live and let live".

Just my 2 cents, I look forward to your perspectives. :smiley: 


73 REPLIES 73

PassiveVR
Expert Protege



True Elite, but if it were just positive talk about the Vive and that's it, that would be great.

Unfortunately it is usually "Vive is great, Oculus and Palmer are sub human scum" - that's not fun.

I think it's more like:

Vive provided some much needed, and healthy for VR competition. It's a decent product. It's more open and direct in it's product details/shipping and delivers everything on day one. Vive is good.

Oculus are fair to middling at this moment, through choices only they made. People will call them out on this. And they have a right to without being insulted or ganged up on by cult-like oculus fans.

Palmer is just a kid who's done some great things, and said some stupid things, I can't hate Palmer, I have no reason to. Anything that has happened to Oculus that made me view them with suspicion or stop being an unconditional supporter, has clearly come from Facebook/Management (possibly B.I the CEO also but clearly they took a turn for the worse after the Facebook buyout and now the fears we all had back then have started to manifest, well, not started to but HAVE manifested, with more to follow I'm sure). Even so, Oculus and Palmer are just providing a product, and if we don't like it we are free to go elsewhere (Valve/HTC/Sony and in future I'm sure many others). So no major problem there.

No, what is the worst of all this is the blind fanboys of Oculus, rampant on r/oculus and there's a few around here also, who seem to live to ridicule ( pillory ), chastise, witch hunt and generally pat each other on the back for ganging up on those with dissenting voices. Whether they are pro Vive, Anti oculus, both or not particularly any of those. These "fans" scan posts looking for anything, even slightly positive about vive vs rift or anti-rift, and their immediate reaction is to jump to Oculus's defence, not with well thought out (or even valid) arguments, but with personal attacks.

If you want to look for the 'scum' in the above choices, my vote would firmly lie with the latter. Those people so on the edge of self worth that they are not happy until they hound posters out of the forum (or get them banned on r/oculus) because they can't bear to read what they say.

If you look at the whole 'us vs them' thing that came out of this, the majority of people interested in Vive (and now owners such as myself) were just general VR fans, weighing up the pros and cons of each, but were dealt blow after blow from Facebook (bundled gamepad, higher price, hiding specs, blatant u-turns on what they said they would do vs what they did do, for the good of VR), decided that Vive would have to do for generation 1 because VR was more important than brand loyalty. Some people can not let emotional attachment to oculus go, well it's a bit less obvious now as even the most die-hard fan has had to concede Oculus have royally fucked up in some important ways, but they are still around, their shit-pots and troll-posts remain without punishment, their continual references to past members who were either banned from here (after being baited by idiots), or simply chased away by the pitch fork wielding mob are casually tossed around as if the one doing it is a saint. This kind of thing is what caused the "VR wars of 2016" and in turn a massive amount of ill-will towards Oculus/Facebook for basically encouraging fanboys to do it, via misinformation (or no information), vague promises and by targeting the most easily led, least outspoken and most 'brand loyal' to be their PR for them.

That those people harmed oculus in the long run is quite amusing, as due to their head-in-sand, mocking-of-the-competition ways, they have created a "by association" problem with Oculus now, as a segment of the VR population who don't really understand VR, don't even care about what's good for VR, so long as they don't have to feel bad about turning their back on Palmer/Oculus because of unfathomable loyalty.

You may laugh now, but for all your hard work in defending the un-defendable, and for mocking those who could take a more objective view and see how badly things were going at oculus, and in fact how inferior the product was in all but a couple of minor cases, and how bad exclusives were for PCVR this early, has pretty much helped oculus (and their most vocal fanboys such as the "insufferable" Heany555 on reddit ) dig their own graves. General VR fans just wanted a fair outcome, oculus fans didn't care about anything but shutting out information, calling people liars, accusing them (me) of working for HTC because of posts I made trying to inform potential Vive buyers of it's strengths, and to balance up the mis-conception of oculus being the defacto best at everything.

So my point is, you can't complain about those people who keep posting "cancelled my rift, gone to Vive" when it was pretty much the people doing the complaining that created these people in the first place. Stop the witch hunts and you'd see things setttle down, stop berating posters for having a strong/different opinion, and stop accusing people who prefer Vive of being all the ridiculous things they have been accused of (all called liars who haven't cancelled anything but just want to stamp their feet). Many of these witch hunt posts/posters can't see the irony in their words.

do what you like with this post, you can't dislike it anymore so by all means flag it as spam or whatever gets you off. What you reap now is what you (collectively the super-core Oculus fanbase) sowed, be it repetitive "cancelled my rift" posts, long winded essays by people like me who has been on the end of your contempt and attacks and accusations, or even the way oculus continue to take advantage of the apple-like cult that has sprung up around them.

BTW I'm not a vive fanboy (i'm only 75% happy with it - prob gonna sell it and wait for gen 2 in fact), as Zoomie once accused me of, in a shit-post thread designed to silence any oculus nay-sayers, that guy is toxic, sorry, he's the most manipulative and sly poster around here and has single handedly converted many a fence sitter, or Vive curious poster into an oculus fanboy hater with his "Butter wouldn't melt" act, sucking up to Cyber, creating troll posts, trying to moderate the forum to fit his own ideals (based on insecurity of not wanting to hear anything bad about his chosen system). So while posters like him continue to exist (wouldn't surprise me if he was heany555 actually), then posters like me will also pop up, being told what we are, what our motives are, by nothing but a loud mouthed anon with a superiority complex.

You want rid of disgruntled oculus fans, vive fans and general VR fans that like to call things how they are (like me) then get rid of people like him. And he's not alone but he's definitely the 'ringleader'. Emphasis on ring. 😉

as said, do what you like or say what you like, I won't be back. Facebook are not in my VR future, no matter how good their CV2 is. Talking of CV2, maybe try and clear out the obnoxious over bearing sycophants on this forum for the next round (2018)? I think it'll do more to retain customers and good will than anything Palmer could say right now.

Choronzon
Adventurer
The reason for the anger is that people are passionate about VR, especially those who have followed Oculus from DK1 onwards - and for Rift fanbois to start calling them 'trolls' simply because they are critical of company decisions doesn't do the forum any good at all.

SpyderSi
Protege
How do people have time to write posts as long as that?? And does anybody bother to read them?

VizionVR
Rising Star
I'm here to discuss VR in general.
I don't "hate" Oculus. I'm concerned for their actions and how they might affect the VR industry. I own a Vive and will purchase a Rift when it is a complete VR package (IE: includes Touch).

In the meantime, I prefer to discuss VR content and where the industry is heading. This USED to be an excellent forum for that type of discussion and will be again once more members receive their Rifts.


Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.

Zoomie
Expert Trustee
Glad to see I'm still your target of choice passiveVR. 
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C Clarke

DrOculus
Adventurer
@VizionVR yep i remember when the forum started and there was none of what these young folk call "fanboys" but it was just great discussion about VR as a whole (people like geekmaster..think that was his name, used to contribute here with great technical discussions about all VR devices which we don't appear to have as much of now)

I have gone Vive after following Palmer from the beginning, for a few reasons (lack of touch etc) but i still like to read/discuss everything about VR here. Why?...because i love VR

Hanover
Rising Star
To be honest with you, if I knew things were going to be this political with VR on the PC, I would have just skipped it all together and waited for the PSVR.

I just wanted to play games in VR.  I wasn't making a statement, and I certainly don't care if Facebook owns Oculus (and 90% of those who hate Facebook most likely have a Facebook account).   I really just don't care.  VR politics means nothing in the grand scheme of things.  You don't see it come up on the 6 o'clock news.  I see people regurgitating the same points over and over.  Talking about a failed launch when 99% of the orders are being delievered within the delivery date windows that were provided on April 12th.  It's only been approximately one month since March 28th for heaven sakes.

I've just canceled my Reddit account.  Yes, it is a bunch of insufferable fanboys.  This forum is paradise compared to /oculus.  I don't see why anyone would want to invest in VR if they found /oculus before they purchased one.  I asked a simple question about Asynchronous Time Warp and was down-voted all to hell.  Jeeze, sorry I wanted to learn.

Choronzon
Adventurer

Hanover said:

 and I certainly don't care if Facebook owns Oculus


I don't care either. But the danger is that Facebook, Twitter, Reddit obsessives will infect Oculus with the same inbred, navel-gazing, self-satisfied rhetoric that we're beginning to see in smug-wanker posts.

VizionVR
Rising Star
 



Hanover said:

 and I certainly don't care if Facebook owns Oculus


I don't care either. But the danger is that Facebook, Twitter, Reddit obsessives will infect Oculus with the same inbred, navel-gazing, self-satisfied rhetoric that we're beginning to see in smug-wanker posts.


That's already happened. The floodgates have opened and the VR version of Eternal September is upon us. Wait till PSVR gets in on the mix this Fall and the PC/Console wars heat up all over again.
Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.

Sarlin
Adventurer
It's been a LONG time since a good PC/Console war explode!