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I HATE my Rift and I'm both confused and disappointed

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  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    Maybe when 1080 are released the story changes, what about supersampling?
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  • Map63VetteMap63Vette Posts: 141
    Art3mis
    I think some of the issue comes down to whether people are expecting to be in another completely realistic location through VR or in an imaginary world.  I like games that aren't realistic (like a JRPG for instance), because the worlds have their own different flavor and style.  I'm not expecting a tree to look exactly like one in real life, though I can recognize it as a tree.  I am looking forward to trying out some racing games in VR, mainly because I hope the depth will help with some realism and sense of speed, but I'm not necessarily expecting it to replace driving a real car.
  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    The problem is people look to youtube videos and what they see is the image on the monitor and no inside the rift, lot of people get confused and feel cheated but we knew it was low res early adopters HMD so thats what we get in 2016.
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  • ThugThug Posts: 435
    Trinity
    I let a friend of mine play Assetto Corsa in VR when it was supported.
    He went as fast as he could around a track the drove straight on at a right hander right into a wall at full speed.
    It was funny watching him braise himself for impact, ripping the DK2 off his head when he hit the wall.
    It genuinely scared him.
    You could never get that with monitors.
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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    @Zoomie yeah, I know. I did point that out to be fair. Just mentioned it as a possible alternative, especially as the OP said he really wished he could see stuff without taking off the headset :)
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    1. You are not a douche.
    2. it is you
    3. some people have issues seeing "through" the SDE in the DK2, perhaps you have the same issue in the CV1 so that you cannot see beyond the limitations. 
    4. Graphics fanatics should probably skip VR gen 1 and 2 alltogether. VR is not about resolution (yet)
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    wickfut said:

    This is VR and until P.C.s get fast enough that is what we are stuck with. The P.C. is the limiting factor. Upping the resolution isn't a massive problem. Getting a p.c. to be able to run that resolution is the problem.
    My PC is able to run higher res, it's other peoples which are lowering the standard. 

    So you want them to make VR for you?
    Although I very much doubt you could go much higher without a framerate hit. I've a high end system and that is about on it's limit in Project cars. Even at the resolution we have now.
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  • Ricktor_BlackRicktor_Black Posts: 198
    Art3mis
    I think you are just expecting too much.  The Oculus and the Vive are basically the stand-alone home version of Pong of VR.  This is ground level consumer VR product.  This is basically the first time that screen technology, technical latency, processing power, graphics technology and optics have all gotten to the point where a consumer grade VR is possible.  That's it.  Before this time it just wasn't really possible.  But this is the basement level and every year from now on things are only getting better.

    I too have been around games since they were invented.  My favorite game of all time is Ultima V on the Apple IIe (and that was cutting edge compared to everything I'd played up to that point).  If you are an image quality nazi then this just isn't the time for you to get into VR.  You are not a candidate to be an early adopter of this technology.  People buying Rifts and Vives right now are just happy to have working VR at home for less than $2,000, there is a certain amount of "this display is good enough for now" that we all have live with.  Looking at a 1080p display and expecting something equivalent to 3x 4K screens is kind of ridiculous.  Knowing how long you've been around this stuff and the experience you have, I'm kind of surprised that YOU are surprised by the image quality on these devices.
  • wickfutwickfut Posts: 202
    Art3mis
    So you want them to make VR for you?
    Although I very much doubt you could go much higher without a framerate hit. I've a high end system and that is about on it's limit in Project cars. Even at the resolution we have now.
    Yes. I'd rather be held back by GPU power, which can shift in 6 months rather than be held back by the physical amount of dots on a display which I'll have to wait maybe years until newer HMD's come out. 

    And yes, I'd rather they set the bar at the current highest GPU at the time of release. Think about it, in 2 weeks time a 970 is going to be classed as a lower midrange card. 
  • blanesblanes Posts: 1,096
    3Jane
    edited May 2016
    hey exigeous, I agree 99% with Thug - 1% is I don't mind seeing cats, dogs or goldfish do the biz down under as I find it soothing, but I digress ! :#  Sim-racing is only reason to have a pc for me and once I raced vr 2 yrs back on the dk2 I was sold - triples became obsolete - but everyone differs and you obviously need the gauges and other fluff to be immersed and have grown accustomed to 4k triples which sounds like you should just stick with it and you have an awesome setup so nothing wrong at all with that for sure.

    Only thing I would say, it is possible you know, that if you persisted and gave the cv1 a chance by using it with some degree of commitment for awhile, you may actually find your perception & appreciation of it changes. Your brain will actually forget the resolution to certain degree if you become immersed in the racing, same goes for SDE though I have never heard someone proclaim so vigorously as you have of how bad it now is. Maybe you have super sensitive vision ?  

    Anyway going back to Thug's theory - cat gazing as described may desensitize your vision enough to enjoy current gen VR - just a thought !  ;)
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    wickfut said:
    So you want them to make VR for you?
    Although I very much doubt you could go much higher without a framerate hit. I've a high end system and that is about on it's limit in Project cars. Even at the resolution we have now.
    Yes. I'd rather be held back by GPU power, which can shift in 6 months rather than be held back by the physical amount of dots on a display which I'll have to wait maybe years until newer HMD's come out. 

    And yes, I'd rather they set the bar at the current highest GPU at the time of release. Think about it, in 2 weeks time a 970 is going to be classed as a lower midrange card. 

    I guess you have zero experience in production or sales then. The bar is already set VERY high.
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  • wickfutwickfut Posts: 202
    Art3mis
    edited May 2016

    I guess you have zero experience in production or sales then. The bar is already set VERY high.
    Why would I give a shit about the production or sales, or care about what height the bar is? Myself and many others have spent a large chunk of money on VR to try and get the best experience. If the cost of entry is priced a little higher but generally gives everyone a better experience than I'm all for it. As people keep saying , this a new tech, either invest and be an early adopter or wait it out until the price lowers.

    If companies actually took advantage of SLI and the lowest you could get away with was SLI 970s or a 980Ti then we'd be  in a completely different ball game right now in VR. 
  • r00xr00x Posts: 389
    Nexus 6
    @Exigeous I agree with the consensus here - you've been led astray by reviews it seems! Sorry about that! Real VR has plenty of issues that need solving, and I'm sure will be solved in the years ahead.

    That said, for me, the Rift completely blows away monitors for sim experiences. I couldn't disagree more on the immersion factor comparing multi-monitor setups to the current-gen VR headsets! I let my mother try VR when she came to visit, and you should have seen her play Project Cars. There was this one moment when she totally misjudged a corner and went hurtling off the track towards the barrier and she screamed like she genuinely thought was going to die. Not unlike this woman losing her shit playing the Brookhaven Experiment, actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6urJejluX44

    However, I am not so bothered by the SDE, which kind of explains my position, as if you discount the res/SDE you are essentially comparing a device which projects a 3D stereoscopic environment around you in real-time versus a few flat monitor images (and the winner in that case is obviously the headset, by far!!).

    THAT said... resolution and SDE are top of my list of things I want improved for the next-gen HMDs. I hope they stick to their current strategy of demanding top of the range hardware to drive them and really push the screen res for the second gen. I feel like 4K would be the beginning of truly compelling VR, even though it's still far below what we need to get razor-sharp visuals (which the industry seems to agree would be 16K or thereabouts).


  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    wickfut said:

    I guess you have zero experience in production or sales then. The bar is already set VERY high.
    Why would I give a shit about the production or sales, or care about what height the bar is? Myself and many others have spent a large chunk of money on VR to try and get the best experience. If the cost of entry is priced a little higher but generally gives everyone a better experience than I'm all for it. As people keep saying , this a new tech, either invest and be an early adopter or wait it out until the price lowers.

    If companies actually took advantage of SLI and the lowest you could get away with was SLI 970s or a 980Ti then we'd be  in a completely different ball game right now in VR. 

    Why should you give a shit? Well maybe because with out sales there is NO VR. So no one has it. Developers already have a very big decision to make as to whether or not to make a VR game. Clueless comes to mind.
      
    I do have a 980 Ti for me I'd say that was minimum spec for games like Project cars.


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  • ExigeousExigeous Posts: 43
    Brain Burst
    Those that have said I should have known better and not had the expectations I had, especially when comparing 3 4k vs. 1080p up close are basically right.  Let me be clear that I definitely had misgivings about the tech which is why I skipped DK2.  Everything I read kept referring to the fairly bad SDE so I knew I'd be unhappy.  The bulk of the "reviews" you read (I say it that way as many have rightly pointed out some dude's opinion isn't really a review) talked about how SDE was no longer an issue and that it was basically gone.  I suppose to that I was thinking of the incredibly high DPI that displays are reaching and when I read it was basically 1080p I was a bit surprised that would be good enough.  I am sorta surprised they didn't go with 4k OLED displays as those exist at these sizes.  I know the answer is they would be far too expensive so I'll just wait until that isn't the case.

    I think the comment that now is the convergence, everything is finally at the place where good-enough consumer level VR is possible.  The analogy to the original Pong machines is pretty spot on (although I'd say more Atari 2400).  I recall when I was really little that PacMan was finally released for the 2400.  Then too my expectations were too high as I expected, well, PacMan.  If any of you had/remember it was FAR from PacMan.  It looked nothing like it, was primarily a yellow color (vs. blue/black) and was just awful.  A friend spent the night before at my house so we could go get it first thing in the morning and play it all day.  After about 15 minutes we went to the lake instead (which was probably the better call anyway!).  If that cartridge got more than 15 more minutes of play I'd be shocked!

    As for learning to love it while I get the comment that's just not me.  I do actually get very little time to game and as such I try to maximize that time with what I enjoy the most.  While I enjoy screwing around and setting things up I'm not going to spend 2 hours racing in Rift when I can use my 3 displays.  That said I haven't yet raced online with my Sim league yet so I'll do that (tomorrow night) before a final decision.

    I will say that running through the training in Eve:Valkerie was really fun and the best thing I've tried yet.  As I *HATE* Xbox controllers with a firey passion (another preference, no need for a war) I'd like to get it working with my Thrustmaster HOTAS (which so far seems *very* hard).  If I can make that work it's about the only thing right now that would make me consider keeping the Rift.  I'd hoped that would be sim racing but for me it just isn't, for those that are enjoying it I say great for you, that's fantastic.  I love it when friends enjoy their toys....
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,219 Valuable Player
    Exigeous said:

    I will say that running through the training in Eve:Valkerie was really fun and the best thing I've tried yet.  As I *HATE* Xbox controllers with a firey passion (another preference, no need for a war) I'd like to get it working with my Thrustmaster HOTAS (which so far seems *very* hard).  If I can make that work it's about the only thing right now that would make me consider keeping the Rift. 
    An update is due today that should natively incorporate joystick settings
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    If the hardware bar is set too high, there will be few people buying the headsets. And if the headsets don't sell, then not many game companies will bother producing software. Yes, if they'd said min spec is a 980Ti, the games might look a bit better. But I for one don't have a 980Ti and don't plan on buying one. So I wouldn't have bought a Vive/Rift. VR needs to sell a lot of headsets to make the truly great software start arriving. So, for now, I'm happy with the tradeoff.
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    Exigeous , I think when they say there is little to no SDE they are comparing it to the DK2 not a 4k set up.
    I'd not tried ANY VR until the CV1, I certainly wasn't disappointed, Maybe I just had more realistic expectations as to how good 1080p was going to look so close up.

    keep with it a little longer and you may come around to the experience rather than the image quality is like.
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  • wickfutwickfut Posts: 202
    Art3mis
    edited May 2016

    Why should you give a shit? Well maybe because with out sales there is NO VR. So no one has it. Developers already have a very big decision to make as to whether or not to make a VR game. Clueless comes to mind.
      
    I do have a 980 Ti for me I'd say that was minimum spec for games like Project cars.


    So you think that all these early adopter enthusiasts who have just bought a £500-750 headset are suddenly not going to buy it because they need to throw a bit extra towards their GPU fund? Please

    Even if it were too much for them, in 2 weeks time the 1070 will be out and give you the 980Ti speed for 970 money. It wouldn't have made much difference really. "clueless comes to mind" get over yourself. 
    notsram said:
    If the hardware bar is set too high, there will be few people buying the headsets. And if the headsets don't sell, then not many game companies will bother producing software. Yes, if they'd said min spec is a 980Ti, the games might look a bit better. But I for one don't have a 980Ti and don't plan on buying one. So I wouldn't have bought a Vive/Rift. VR needs to sell a lot of headsets to make the truly great software start arriving. So, for now, I'm happy with the tradeoff.




    Yes you would and you know it. Even if it wasn't right now, it would have been in a month or two. 
  • govnygovny Posts: 105
    Hiro Protagonist
    Exigeous said:
    Is it me???

    Yes

    Exigeous said:
    If so please help me fix me??
    we can't
  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    Exigeous said:

    I think the comment that now is the convergence, everything is finally at the place where good-enough consumer level VR is possible.  The analogy to the original Pong machines is pretty spot on (although I'd say more Atari 2400).  I recall when I was really little that PacMan was finally released for the 2400.  Then too my expectations were too high as I expected, well, PacMan.  If any of you had/remember it was FAR from PacMan.  It looked nothing like it, was primarily a yellow color (vs. blue/black) and was just awful.  A friend spent the night before at my house so we could go get it first thing in the morning and play it all day.  After about 15 minutes we went to the lake instead (which was probably the better call anyway!).  If that cartridge got more than 15 more minutes of play I'd be shocked!

    .
    I well remember the Atari Pacman. Loved the game in the arcades, and was overjoyed when I heard it was coming to the Atari VCS (UK name for the system). Saved for ages to buy it (I was only about 12 I think), rushed home, fired it up and was instantly disappointed. Gameplay was rubbish, felt completely unlike the arcade game, and IIRC, Pacman didn't even rotate when he went up or down.

    Wonder if any copies of that went into the famed E.T. landfill? :p
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    wickfut said:

    Why should you give a shit? Well maybe because with out sales there is NO VR. So no one has it. Developers already have a very big decision to make as to whether or not to make a VR game. Clueless comes to mind.
      
    I do have a 980 Ti for me I'd say that was minimum spec for games like Project cars.


    So you think that all these early adopter enthusiasts who have just bought a £500-750 headset are suddenly not going to buy it because they need to throw a bit extra towards their GPU fund? Please

    Even if it were too much for them, in 2 weeks time the 1070 will be out and give you the 980Ti speed for 970 money. It wouldn't have made much difference really. "clueless comes to mind" get over yourself. 
    notsram said:
    If the hardware bar is set too high, there will be few people buying the headsets. And if the headsets don't sell, then not many game companies will bother producing software. Yes, if they'd said min spec is a 980Ti, the games might look a bit better. But I for one don't have a 980Ti and don't plan on buying one. So I wouldn't have bought a Vive/Rift. VR needs to sell a lot of headsets to make the truly great software start arriving. So, for now, I'm happy with the tradeoff.




    Yes you would and you know it. Even if it wasn't right now, it would have been in a month or two. 

    Um, The GPU I have is about as good as it gets. The CPU I have is about as good as it gets. When the head sets where released there was no and there still isn't any 1080 gpu's  So would people have just got a £500-£750 door stop until they are released?
     If you tried to look at the bigger picture and the attempt to make this a viable consumer product then maybe I wouldn't have to use the word clueless. Until that happens that is exactly what you are.
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  • wickfutwickfut Posts: 202
    Art3mis
    edited May 2016
    Um, The GPU I have is about as good as it gets. The CPU I have is about as good as it gets. When the head sets where released there was no and there still isn't any 1080 gpu's So would people have just got a £500-£750 door stop until they are released? If you tried to look at the bigger picture and the attempt to make this a viable consumer product then maybe I wouldn't have to use the word clueless. Until that happens that is exactly what you are.

    What are you on about? I don't work for Valve/HTC/Oculus/Facebook. I really don't give a toss about any big picture in making something a viable product.
    The question was asked about what level the entry GPU should be and I replied. Marketing it for people with a higher GPU is their job not mine.
     Why would people have a £500-750 doorstop? Why would anyone who can't run the device buy one?
     A lot of people still have not received their HMDs, there's a back order just incase you haven't noticed. Quite a few people will be getting theirs after the new cards are released. Your whole point seems to be that people are [A] Unable to save up another £200 to put towards a GPU or [B] Unable to wait a few weeks until new cards come out before buying a VR headset. And here you are calling me clueless like you're some fucking authority on the subject.
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    Jesus, just stop thinking about you, you, you. If these head set don't sell in enough numbers. They die. So while you don't give a toss about the big picture, Maybe you would if oculus went out of business due to lack of sales because they spec'ed it too high. Then you too would have a doorstop. This is first generation, live with it.

    Your very naive if you think they could have expected a higher p.c. spec than they have already asked for.
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  • KizbotKizbot Posts: 8
    NerveGear
    Exigeous said:
    Again I really appreciate everyone's input - even to those that have been a bit negative I think you're all completely right, I had completely unrealistic expectations.  In fairness many of those were set not by my personal setup or experience but from the reviews I've read/seen that use terms like "amazing" "fully immersive" "SDE is completely gone", etc.  You're all right that those reviews are coming from a completely different perspective than I am and yes, I feel extremely lucky to be able to play on the setup I have now.  I'm in my 40s and single so this isn't something mommy and daddy bought me, it's something I worked for and got for myself.  I do keep it in a small room in my basement so when I do have a date over the door can stay very CLOSED!  HA!

    Again thanks for all the input, it's all been very valuable.  I certainly won't give up on VR long term as I really do think it's a hugely revolutionary tech and will change many things in the future.  When gen 2 comes out with 4k OLED displays for each eye it'll be much closer to being what I'm hoping for.  I suppose I just had too much "it's the Matrix" in my head and while I am disappointed it's still a great thing to be disappointed by and I'm still very excited for the future.

    I'll also say I'm somewhat surprised at how many responses this has garnered so quickly - and I appreciate all of them.  I definitely was expecting some attacks, which I haven't really gotten, as whenever I've searched for negative reviews of the Rift or Vive I just can't find them.  So thanks again everyone, keep the fun chat coming!
    Just to readjust your expectations on GEN 2 so that you don't set yourself up for another round of massive disappointment, will not have 4k OLED per eye.  

    1k per eye is more realistic, but not 4k. Reason is that computer power will still not have caught up.  4k + 4k at 90 hz possibly 120hz is a huge leap in demand in terms of GPU and CPU. Secondly to make money companies make things a bit better each time, going from just over 1k combined to 4k each eye is a massive jump that just wouldn't make good business sense.

    4k each eye @ 90hz is somewhere like GEN 4 (maybe 5-6 years away), even then it will be bleeding edge tech and not mainstream.  Get those expectations in check.  Enjoy it for what it is though!
  • wickfutwickfut Posts: 202
    Art3mis
    edited May 2016
    Jesus, just stop thinking about you, you, you. If these head set don't sell in enough numbers. They die. So while you don't give a toss about the big picture, Maybe you would if oculus went out of business due to lack of sales because they spec'ed it too high. Then you too would have a doorstop. This is first generation, live with it.

    Your very naive if you think they could have expected a higher p.c. spec than they have already asked for.
    fucking diddums. I mention in a one lined off hand comment that they should have raised the bar in the lowest GPU specs so that they could put (much needed) higher resolution screens in. You've took this one lined comment as some personal attack on your new shiny toy, pulled a huge argument out of your arse and now you start throwing tantrums?

    Oculus have just raised the price of the headset by £250+ and everyone just took it on the chin without questioning it. If Oculus also said you need a 980Ti minimum spec but the screens are 4k, most of the enthusiasts would have took it on the chin without questioning it and rushed to buy 980Ti.

    Then, once all the new pascal 1080/1070 GPUs have come out (like in 2 weeks) and the GPU price of entry gets lowered(because a 980ti = 1070) , all the little whiny cunts like you can run out with your piggy banks and buy one, and then further on down the line when other companies make headsets and competition heats up, the price gets lowered and everyone else can buy one too. 

    Everyone is happy. We all have 4k VR with 980Ti or 1070+ GPUs and all people had to do was to wait a month or two after launch.


    >>This is first generation, live with it.

    So nobody is allowed an opinion on something just incase it offends some whiny bitch on a forum?

    >>Your very naive 

    "You're" :smiley: 



  • Murklan74Murklan74 Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    I would be quite surprised if there would not be any eye and gaze based tracking in GEN2 HMD's.
    This gives several benefits but the most important IMO is the possibility of foveated rendering.
    Based on how the eye work there is a tremendous amount of unnecessary work being done rendering high image quality in the parts of the image the eye is not focusing. It is only a very small part of the image where the eye need high quality. This will in turn allow higher resolution and/or refresh rates on the same CPU/GPU.

  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    wickfut said:
    Jesus, just stop thinking about you, you, you. If these head set don't sell in enough numbers. They die. So while you don't give a toss about the big picture, Maybe you would if oculus went out of business due to lack of sales because they spec'ed it too high. Then you too would have a doorstop. This is first generation, live with it.

    Your very naive if you think they could have expected a higher p.c. spec than they have already asked for.
    fucking diddums. I mention in a one lined off hand comment that they should have raised the bar in the lowest GPU specs so that they could put (much needed) higher resolution screens in. You've took this one lined comment as some personal attack on your new shiny toy, pulled a huge argument out of your arse and now you start throwing tantrums?

    Oculus have just raised the price of the headset by £250+ and everyone just took it on the chin without questioning it. If Oculus also said you need a 980Ti minimum spec but the screens are 4k, most of the enthusiasts would have took it on the chin without questioning it and rushed to buy 980Ti.

    Then, once all the new pascal 1080/1070 GPUs have come out (like in 2 weeks) and the GPU price of entry gets lowered(because a 980ti = 1070) , all the little whiny cunts like you can run out with your piggy banks and buy one, and then further on down the line when other companies make headsets and competition heats up, the price gets lowered and everyone else can buy one too. 

    Everyone is happy. We all have 4k VR with 980Ti or 1070+ GPUs and all people had to do was to wait a month or two after launch.


    >>This is first generation, live with it.

    So nobody is allowed an opinion on something just incase it offends some whiny bitch on a forum?

    >>Your very naive 

    "You're" :smiley: 




    Not taking it as a personal attack at all, or throwing tantrums.  Just being realistic.
    You're the one swearing in each and every post, not me.



    " Oculus have just raised the price of the headset by £250+ and everyone just took it on the chin without questioning it."

    Did they really?... Maybe you should go back a few months on this very forum. Then add on the extra cost of 2 4k screens.


    "most of the enthusiasts would have took it on the chin without questioning it and rushed to buy 980Ti."

    Already had one, I did upgrade my cpu to an i7 6700k though. You know what, the gpu IMHO is only just good enough for what we have now. 4K would kill it.


    " So nobody is allowed an opinion on something just incase it offends some whiny bitch on a forum? "

    Yes every one is entitled to an opinion, and I'm giving mine. 
    Modded Coolermaster RC-1000 Cosmos/1000W Corsair HX Series
    i7 6700k o/c to 4.7ghz Corsair H100i water cooler.
    Zotac 1080Ti
    16 gb DDR4 o/c to 3000mhz
    Predator XB271HU 27" 2560x1440 IPS G-Sync 165Hz
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