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So this new update makes the Rift a closed platform?

TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
Nexus 6
edited May 2016 in General
So I'm just a little confused here. I know this update prevents the HTC Vive from playing games that were intentionally exclusive, but does it also prevent a Vive user from accessing the store and content overall?

Mind you I own a rift just wanted this clarified cause I find that to be a bit unfair if so, as that also seems totally against Luckeys regime. Then again who says Oculus is running off his regime anymore regardless.
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Comments

  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    Basically if your a Rift owner your in luck and can play both Home and steam, if you own a Vive your screwed as you can no longer access Home games.
  • TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
    Nexus 6
    edited May 2016
    I just think this is a very big move for Oculus and even more incentive for developers to develop for steam VR only, if that became a reality then say one day steam decided to close their platform we'd be screwed.

    This just leaves the opportuninty for this move to back fire for Oculus. (Although steam being more of the middle man in all of this seams a bit unlikely) Oculus has got to remember that developers were their main kickstarters and are also part of their audience and can be heavely influenced by moves like this.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,526 Valuable Player
    If Steam closed their platform then I would gladly continue to buy games from places other than Steam. The entire PC gaming industry has flourished with PC titles that had nothing to do with Steam developers. And it will continue to be as such for a long time to come.

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  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    I'm no expert on DRM locks but this seems to go against everything Palmer and Oculus stood for, so seems like Facebook have forced Oculus to toe the company line and over rode oculus.

    Remember steam don't own Vive, they were paid to do the software side, Steam make money on Software and if this pushes more people to buy on Steam well they make more money and Oculus miss out.

    Time will tell if it is a good thing for them or not.

  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    In saying all that, it's only a matter of days/weeks till someone makes a mod/hack/fix to get around all this.

    This is the way of the Internet.
  • TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
    Nexus 6
    @Zandil funny you mention that cause if this article I just read is true then they've already found a workaround http://kotaku.com/oculus-rift-piracy-crackdown-actually-makes-piracy-easi-1778108355
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  • blue-steelblue-steel Posts: 115
    Art3mis
    Oculus is in a hard spot to be in . They want to be apple and have the hardware + software sales to themselves.



    Valve doesn't actually care about hardware  but they want to continue to grow and expand their software platform.


    The problem for oculus that apple didn't have is that there is a huge player in this space already making a killing and offering a better service.  So they need some reason for you to buy their hardware and go through their software store and so  locked content will be their play right now.


    I am keeping my spending on the oculus store to a minimum as I don't see oculus being a player in the next 2 years. I think  with Sony , Google , Apple , Valve , NVidia , AMD and MS all getting into this space they will get crushed
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player
    Here's my 2 cents.

    Oculus wants Vive owners to be able to use their hardware with an officially supported method.  This would mean Vive could use the Oculus SDK, and would allow Vive owners to buy and use programs directly from Oculus Home.  Everyone wins right?  So why hasn't it happened?

    Either Valve/HTC or Oculus is not happy with this arrangement and is blocking it.  So who stands to profit if Vive owners can buy OH games.  On the flip side, who stands to lose software sales if Vive owners can buy from both marketplaces?  Follow the money.

    ReVive let Vive owners circumvent the way Oculus wants Vive supported.  Of course they want sales, but more importantly they want Vive owners to be able to use things like ATW if they're using Oculus "exclusive" titles.  They don't want a hack that may or may not work and that will make games look worse than they are.  Look at how Elite Dangerous runs on Oculus versus Vive, and you'll see how performance can be affected.

    I think this jives with Palmer Luckey's twitter and reddit posts about software and hardware exclusivity.  Blocking Vive just to be dicks doesn't make business sense for Oculus.  I suppose they could be trying to force people to buy a Rift to play Rift exclusives, but their business model is based on selling software, not hardware.
    It doesn't really wash.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    Only Exclusive I think I would miss is Chronos, the rest I would never buy anyway. 
  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    Dear Vive owners

  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    edited May 2016
    Trytiped said:
    @Zandil funny you mention that cause if this article I just read is true then they've already found a workaround http://kotaku.com/oculus-rift-piracy-crackdown-actually-makes-piracy-easi-1778108355
    knew you were going to post that

    you wouldnt hack a bank would you and give out money
    LibreVR is going to have to watch his back, as hes going to get summonsed 


  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited May 2016
    Trytiped said:
    I just think this is a very big move for Oculus and even more incentive for developers to develop for steam VR only, if that became a reality then say one day steam decided to close their platform we'd be screwed.

    I'm not so sure, this move makes it so developers who wanted to only support the Rift in their release get to have control, whereas before people were playing their games on more devices than they wanted (which can cost the developer money/problems, since they may have assets not licensed for more than one platform). I mean heck, the developers of Lucky's Tale were probably pissed, because every Vive owner was able to download their game for free, where Oculus probably gives them a fee for every Rift sold.

    Don't forget that what developers want is very often not what consumers want. Region Protection in consoles was created because developers in Japan didn't want their games to ship outside of Japan without their say-so.
  • Chewie71Chewie71 Posts: 142
    edited May 2016
    Facebook deliberately blocking an influx of Vive $$ just seems insane. They cut off their nose to spite their face. Using DRM for hardware exclusivity will not bode well with PCMR. Bravo Facebook, Oculus!
  • obzenobzen Posts: 713
    Nexus 6
    Zoomie said:
    Here's my 2 cents.

    Oculus wants Vive owners to be able to use their hardware with an officially supported method. 

    Oculus better work on their communication. Well, since forever but anyways... Makes them look bad, whether they have a hand in that or not.

    And if they do, and went out of their way to lock out Vive users, well then, shame on you.

    I though 'hacking' was cool, right? Well, apparently not any more, once lawyers get involved. 
    DK1 FREAK...Ntbt8Ya.gif
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo

    It's funny to read that everybody thinks they know all the ins and outs of what's happening behind the scenes.

    While some scenarios are more likely than others, nobody here knows for sure.

    For all we know Valve said they'd be happy to provide official support for Vive's running Oculus Home games, provided Oculus forks over a percentage of the sale.

    It's going to take some time for the landscape to sort itself out, and it will be what it will be.


    From my end all I can say is that all games i bought on OC home and run on my Rift run perfectly, and without any messing around or config needed.

    With Steam games (both on the Rift and the Vive) it's been a bit more hit and miss.


  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    People forget this isn't to make hardware exclusives its to make store exclusives which work well.

    We can already start to see the 'rift' between home and stream where oculus will make sure things work well on both a software and hardware point where steam just chucks it out and see what sticks.

    In short as I see it Oculus want home to be the best VR marketplace with controls on quality of both software and hardware (oculus approved hardware, not just Oculus stuff). The Vive is no doubt up to it but until valve agrees to let Vive owners buy from a competing store its not going to happen.
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  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player
    edited May 2016
    If I understand you correctly Percy, you see this as similar to Apple's iTunes with strict controls versus the Andriod marketplace, where there are less restrictions but also more junk apps?
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • TrytipedTrytiped Posts: 267
    Nexus 6
    edited May 2016
    @Dreamwriter I think you pointed out one of the biggest issues people are having with VR, where VR is viewed as an added peripheral to enhance depth to games and has now became its own seperate platform. The question is where do we draw the line for what is acceptable on restrictions to VR.

    I whole heartedly love my rift and still believe that Oculus will come out on top. The issue is DRM hasnt always been successful and has only proven to make things worse in most cases like of which isnt a perfect example, but Spore for instance even went as far as to limit how many times you could redownload the game you rightfully own to up to 3 times and had some apparentely unhackable security tell soon after it was cracked and became the most torrented game of all time.

    Truth be told though apple has had a lot of success with DRM but didnt face the competion that the Rift faces now. Not to mention were discussing pc's and peripherals.
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  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6
    Synthetic said:
    Trytiped said:
    @Zandil funny you mention that cause if this article I just read is true then they've already found a workaround http://kotaku.com/oculus-rift-piracy-crackdown-actually-makes-piracy-easi-1778108355
    knew you were going to post that

    you wouldnt hack a bank would you and give out money
    LibreVR is going to have to watch his back, as hes going to get summonsed 



    It's unfortunate, really...

    The best case for LibreVR after publicly acknowledging deliberately circumventing DRM is that s/he's located somewhere Oculus won't have the ability to pursue with a cease and desist letter or criminal charges.  The worse case scenario is, of course, jail time.

    Here's hoping it falls somewhere in between.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,149
    Wintermute
    edited May 2016
    Chewie71 said:
    Facebook deliberately blocking an influx of Vive $$ just seems insane.
    But it's not Vive $$$$. It's mostly Vive owners playing games for free that were only intended to be free for Rift owners.

    Besides, from the number of Vive ads I see on Facebook, they're making plenty of money from HTC.

    And, yeah, breaking the DRM was about the worst thing the Revive guy could do, because he's now opened himself up to legal action and possible jail time (depending on where he lives and/or whether he ever visits the US).
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    Zoomie said:
    If I understand you correctly Percy, you see this as similar to Apple's iTunes with strict controls versus the Andriod marketplace, where there are less restrictions but also more junk apps?
    You're not wrong there. This is what they aim to do (at least is my guess) 
    How successful they will be remains to be seen. 

    So far all my Oculus home purchases have worked well and all things considered have been decent products (although a bit on the shallow side in some cases) 

    As for the 20 steam games I tried while I head the Vive, most of those were the kind of stuff Steam Greenlight and Early Access used to get berated over. 

    There's some really bad shovelware in there, and a few gems. 

    But even in a week's time the amount of issues I've had with SteamVR and random software crashes is remarkable.
    All on a brand spanking new system that runs all Oculus Home content without a single hiccup. 

    It doesn't justify everything, but it sure is nice. 

    Right now, for me, the software on Home matches the physical headset.
    Comfortable, easy, does what it says on the tin. 

    Where the software on Steam matches the physical headset (Vive) too.
    bit rough around the edges, tries to run before it can walk, and not afraid to experiment.

    It would all come down to taste really, if it weren't for the fact that Oculus Touch isn't out yet, which I think should be sorted ASAP. 

  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,534 Volunteer Moderator

    It's funny to read that everybody thinks they know all the ins and outs of what's happening behind the scenes.

    While some scenarios are more likely than others, nobody here knows for sure.

    Exactly.
    I have no idea what's really going on behind the scenes, but I've read the 1.4 release notes and the oculus and platform sdk docs.

    1.4 introduced protected content support for HDCP displays. This is DRM related requirements pushed by the movie industry. If you want to play a movie from a bluray, you need to go through at least two layers of DRM: AACS (the encryption of the data on the disc) and HDCP (the encrypted pipeline from the PC to the display). The Oculus SDK needs to verify if a display meets HDCP. Obviously an external program that makes other HMDs masquerade as a rift is going to be affected by these kind of changes.

    So it seems far more likely that Revive wasn't the intended target of these changes, it's so that Oculus can play movies from more sources.

  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    Zoomie said:
    If I understand you correctly Percy, you see this as similar to Apple's iTunes with strict controls versus the Andriod marketplace, where there are less restrictions but also more junk apps?
    I would say so with one major difference, it would be like if apple where happy for users to install iOS on other devices which are up to spec.

    I suppose they want Oculus to be a great VR experience with great software and hardware which works, they have already stated the Vive is up to it.
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  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    jon said:

    It's unfortunate, really...

    The best case for LibreVR after publicly acknowledging deliberately circumventing DRM is that s/he's located somewhere Oculus won't have the ability to pursue with a cease and desist letter or criminal charges.  The worse case scenario is, of course, jail time.

    Here's hoping it falls somewhere in between.


    someone pointed out on another site... may just be able to do a DMCA takedown order .... may be better and quiet
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    This is really free advertising for Oculus games and shows everyone how bored Vive users are getting.

    I do agree that I wish Oculus would respond with something. Also, the ReVive author admitting to Motherboard that he circumvented the DRM makes him automatically guilty. Very stupid.

    What I wish Oculus would do is open their store for Vive users and serve the author of ReVive on the same day. I also think they should reverse engineer the Vive and develop their own driver for it. Let Valve try to sue them...that would only make Valve look bad in the end.
  • GeraldGerald Posts: 1,068
    Nexus 6
    Hanover said:
    I do agree that I wish Oculus would respond with something. Also, the ReVive author admitting to Motherboard that he circumvented the DRM makes him automatically guilty. Very stupid.
    I suspect he is making sure he is not traceable ;)
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  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    If you're on the internet, you can be found. Especially if you're uploading to Git Hub.
  • GeraldGerald Posts: 1,068
    Nexus 6
    Mate I lived in Austria - anyone can buy a phone card with super fast internet for 15€ per month there. And those are pretty much untraceable if you take sensible precautions. You can even buy the loading codes with cash.

    Can they find the point of origin? Sure ... but good luck pinpointing the exact location without having a team of specialists making one hell of an effort.  His biggest weakness would be the Vive and them tracing some ID there back to an order (which would require Valve/HTC to share that info in the first place). But if he bought it cash used ...

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,670 Valuable Player
    Zandil said:
    In saying all that, it's only a matter of days/weeks till someone makes a mod/hack/fix to get around all this.

    This is the way of the Internet.
    Soon we will be using a PINsentry, if this carries on.
  • JakemanOculusJakemanOculus Posts: 514
    Neo
    This is not a "closed platform."  A closed platform would be if Oculus didn't allow non-Home apps to run on the Rift.  The iPhone is a good example of a closed platform.  But Oculus doesn't do this.  I can run non-Home apps on my Rift just fine if it was made for the Rift.
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