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I fear vr will flop if it doesnt get sold in stores

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    I don't think retail will affect how VR will take off right now, especially since VR is still so fresh. If anything, VR will fail if a more demanding / affordable / immersive technology comes out, which I don't see any on the horizon. So right now, VR is here to stay, it might just take slower than normal tech to reach all retailers, but it will eventually be everywhere, even at your local mini mart. 
    You could say PS4/5 HMD will be the one that is cheaper and in the masses at your local mini mart. If nothing, that's only going to feed the higher end as more people see the benefits of VR and want "more" from the PC end.
  • JSMosbyJSMosby Posts: 27
    Brain Burst

    I had pre ordered a cv1 but called around when they went retail. Managed to get in line at a store in Texas was number two. Good thing too because they only got five to sell and a display model. Just checked and they are still sold out. None on the shelves and none online either. The store in Texas only got 5 and that was it and they haven't been restocked either.


    I'm not a doom and gloom guy but Oculus did seriously underestimate the demand for the cv1. They need to ask for their money back from whoever did their market research for them.


    Do you think anyone could ask 1300 for a cv1 on ebay if they were sitting on shelves in a Best
    Buy?

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,676 Valuable Player
    JSMosby said:
    Do you think anyone could ask 1300 for a cv1 on ebay if they were sitting on shelves in a Best

    Buy?

    The fact that someone is willing to pay $1,300 instead of waiting longer or buying a competitor product is a testament to how sought after the Rift is in todays market. Some folks will spend the time using their home-made magnifying glass to find a flaw in a Picasso. It's cute at best.
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  • JSMosbyJSMosby Posts: 27
    Brain Burst
    My point wasn't that they were sought after or in demand. My point was that there are none on the shelves like a previous poster had insinuated. You can't even order one online at best buy. You can only order them through Oculus.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,131
    Wintermute
    JSMosby said:
    My point wasn't that they were sought after or in demand. My point was that there are none on the shelves like a previous poster had insinuated.
    And imagine the whining if there were.

    Preorders should finish shipping in a couple of months. Then I'd expect to see plenty of Rifts appearing in stores, and an ad blitz on Facebook to promote them.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,676 Valuable Player
    edited June 2016
    JSMosby said:
    My point wasn't that they were sought after or in demand. My point was that there are none on the shelves like a previous poster had insinuated. You can't even order one online at best buy. You can only order them through Oculus.
    What you and the OP are insinuating is that Best Buy only had 5 or less Rift's available, which is complete falsehood. Bringing up E-Bay only proves that Best Buy eventually sold out both locally and online; but online inventory could have been 100 or 1,000 before they sold out.

    They are sold out everywhere because the entire free world wants them, which is the opposite of this threads assumption that "VR will flop."

    You aren't proving anything.
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  • tranceology3tranceology3 Posts: 804
    3Jane
    Mradr said:
    I don't think retail will affect how VR will take off right now, especially since VR is still so fresh. If anything, VR will fail if a more demanding / affordable / immersive technology comes out, which I don't see any on the horizon. So right now, VR is here to stay, it might just take slower than normal tech to reach all retailers, but it will eventually be everywhere, even at your local mini mart. 
    You could say PS4/5 HMD will be the one that is cheaper and in the masses at your local mini mart. If nothing, that's only going to feed the higher end as more people see the benefits of VR and want "more" from the PC end.
    Well, I am thinking more like 7 years down the road you will see android all in one cheap VR headsets, like with phones/tablets today selling in mini marts. I am still shocked I can grab a cheap little phone that runs android well enough to run most apps for around $30, or used for like $10. Got my 3 year old daughter one for $10, just to run Plex when we are in the car, and wasn't worried financially if she would break it.....well she did break it, threw it on the concrete...  :o
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited June 2016

    The affordable market will have too many hands in the pie to really make it as it is. Most sub 200$ copy the idea of just making a head mount for your phone and call it good while others try to make it a full on device but will fail to get decent devs/apps in the long run.

    Apple and Samsung are the only two big players I could see making it in this field in the long run. The head mount will just getting cheaper and cheaper (free maybe?) to the point no one will be making any money other than the software programmers and that means only the ones that have the biggest share of the market will win at the end of the day.

    It'll be closer to 10 years before a sub 100$ phone will be able to run "decent" VR (Yes it doesn't take much to run vr, but I mean a game like Lucky's Tale). I don't mean phones that org. cost a few hundred off release, but phones actually made under the sub 100$.

    It's one of the problems that cell phones are seeing as well. Phone are catching up to the "good enough" point that it's getting harder and harder to sell new phones for profit when you can go out and buy a "good enough" phone from Ebay for around 200-300$.

    I predict that 8k will be a show stopper for most HMD that use LCD like tech as well where sending light to the eye will start to pay more than trying to keep pushing screen tech that is already going to start costing more as demand shrinks for it. Like, the masses really don't have a need for 4k already other than video play back. 8k will already be pushing for the people that are using it for VR. Why would there be a need for 16k at this rate when it take some big hardware to run it that will result in lower battery life at the end of the day?

    So even the higher end will see some market issues past the 4rd gen of vr. Now, that's an easy 8-12 years out though sooo I'll see you guys in the future I hope :P

    The middle ground will see most of the growth when it comes to anything (being in stores and where someone might have a device to play it on). PS4/5 will have some pretty crazy improvements as time continues. 1st gen console VR is going to suck pretty badly, but I have a feeling this might finally push the masses into making the jump from consoles to PC again. They're costing just as much and can almost do the same stuff as a PC today can if that doesn't say much. Some even have gotten windows and Linux to run on the hardware.

  • smilertoosmilertoo Posts: 268
    Hiro Protagonist
    Oculus could be building future problems for itself with a lot of bad feelings from hardcore users between backtracking on DRM and having the pre order thing, then adding delay after delay so they could ship the units to stores instead.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,331 Valuable Player
    From our observations, the retail route to market seemed to have been abandoned internally from the beginning - OVR execs feeling they had a better plan to market.

    Now after closer examination, we see much of their planned market penetration depended on signing unique deals to corner market presence (such as the BestBuy agreement).

    Of the $600m invested in OVR, very little went into marketing - promotion at exhibitions, free publicity through figurehead interviews, and the obvious exhibition presence (CES, E3 and Connect), was the plan.

    Sadly this blinkered approach has bordered on complacency, and had no plan in place regarding the feud they engendered with Valve. Seeing HTC Vives in Microsoft Stores a case in point (very embarrassing). E3 and the Touch positioning announcement, will now become vital events to save the stategy!

    In not being open to the VR community, in being ignorant of Google, and HTC's aspirations in this sector - and the whole issue with Sony - OVR may now not be able to leverage their position. But for VR the momentum seems to be growing (with or without retail).
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    smilertoo said:
    Oculus could be building future problems for itself with a lot of bad feelings from hardcore users between backtracking on DRM and having the pre order thing, then adding delay after delay so they could ship the units to stores instead.

    Yes and no. Right now it seems that way, but a lot of this will be forgotten over time. The other problem is the demand is soo high right now they can't even keep up. Even if they open another planet for it, it might create other problems in that there will be soo many units out, but not enough software to really support that many users. Right now, other than a few set games and apps I use, there still a desire unfilled because of the hardware limits of gen 1. Not that I blame gen 1 or Oculus, but that it's still new tech and it'll take time to get everything right.

    In lots of ways you see it as a problem, but I can see it as a way for them to be sure they can still live on after the hardware sells. As in my example above, without some income from another source, there will be too many hands in the pie at some point and you have to make sure you have the bigger share of the pie or else you will be push out and thrown away.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,331 Valuable Player
    "> Mradr said:In lots of ways you see it as a problem, but I can see it as a way for them to be sure they can still live on after the hardware sells."

    I think we are all hearing from the 'Oculites' phrases like "...this will blow over", or "...its all going to work out". I would expect that on a OVR forum or the echo chamber that is Reddit. But there is some revisionism being added to the Koolade that is uncomfortable.

    The comment about all the DRM and walled garden approach being done to "...[en]sure they can still live after the hardware..." smacks of trying to defend the indefensible.

    OVR was proud to state they were making no money off of the hardware, and had a plan in place to ensure no walled garden approach but an open community - "...no one wants to buy a TV and not be able to watch whatever they want on it...!"

    Obviously things have changed internally, and we can expect a new positioning statement post DRM and launch problems any time soon. How OVR addresses the obvious backlash that the Touch announcement will ensure is a way we can all judge their deeds against their claims.



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MeioJoMeioJo Posts: 167
    Do we have information that tells us that the Rift will not be sold in stores?
    I assumed that by Christmas both Rift and Vive would be on store shelves...

  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited June 2016

    Always a good post by kevinw729 :)

    Point stands is that as long as they don't make a big profit off the head set and sells it at cost ~ then that's like saying the product was "Free" to the market. In the long run, that means more software sells, more market shares, and that over time generates more money. Now, they limited it to their software sells to their hardware at this time, but I for see them releasing DRM just a bit so they can still make money off even Vive. I have a feeling the move was a bit rush into place, but there are a few reason you would want to go for a DRM in the long run as well.

    I'm not as good as you are Kevin when it comes to marketing:) so it's hard for me to say what I am thinking to you ^__^; but welcome to comment :P So far I been able to keep my PC business going for 4 years now :) so hopefully I am doing something right in the understanding of how a market works :P

  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    MeioJo said:
    Do we have information that tells us that the Rift will not be sold in stores?
    I assumed that by Christmas both Rift and Vive would be on store shelves...

    No, it's just that demand is going to up before Christmas. I posted a comment to lovethis over the same thought. Demand will start to [re]increase by Oct and Nov. Good luck getting it in stores as well. There will be a limited amount, but they will be pretty much all gone on Black Friday or solid out way before then.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,331 Valuable Player
    "> Mradr said:In lots of ways you see it as a problem, but I can see it as a way for them to be sure they can still live on after the hardware sells."

    I think we are all hearing from the 'Oculites' phrases like "...this will blow over", or "...its all going to work out". I would expect that on a OVR forum or the echo chamber that is Reddit. But there is some revisionism being added to the Koolade that is uncomfortable.

    The comment about all the DRM and walled garden approach being done to "...[en]sure they can still live after the hardware..." smacks of trying to defend the indefensible.

    OVR was proud to state they were making no money off of the hardware, and had a plan in place to ensure no walled garden approach but an open community - "...no one wants to buy a TV and not be able to watch whatever they want on it...!"

    Obviously things have changed internally, and we can expect a new positioning statement post DRM and launch problems any time soon. How OVR addresses the obvious backlash that the Touch announcement will ensure is a way we can all judge their deeds against their claims.



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MeioJoMeioJo Posts: 167
    edited June 2016
    Well the price is down to $800 on eBay so I'm guessing that it won't go above $900 on Black Friday and then closer to $700 just before Christmas.

    Assuming there is still production issues as production issues are the only things that I can imagine are holding this up.

    The LCD screen being the most likely culprit. However given that Apple just lowered their release cycle to 3 years it would seem that there should be a huge chunk of LCD capacity opening up as that suggests that all smartphones are declining in sales so LCD's should be freed up for VR.
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited June 2016
    GearVR is sold in tons of stores, and I'd be willing to bet DayDream will be too, and even sold in cell provider stores. And if *anybody* thinks you're talking about DK2 when you mention Oculus Rift, they definitely know about CV1. Only real enthusiasts have even heard of DK2.
    no, most famous youtubers ( example: jacksepticeye) compared the vive to the dk2, in a way that I assume meant that they didn't know about the cv1, and the gear vr is the most famous in the media because it comes with the galaxy and is actually advertised in best buy stores, gear vr is about the most popular vr headset in the media as of yet.
    I don't get what you are saying, what does it matter about GearVR being famous? You said VR will flop if it's not sold in stores, I pointed out that GearVR is already sold in tons of stores and has been for a long time, so going by your logic, VR will not flop because it is already easily accessible in stores.

    And I challenge you to provide proof of a single person anywhere in the world who utters the name "DK2" who doesn't know about the CV1's existence.
  • MeioJoMeioJo Posts: 167

    And I challenge you to provide proof of a single person anywhere in the world who utters the name "DK2" who doesn't know about the CV1's existence.
    That is an easy one:


  • ebadevilebadevil Posts: 49
    GearVR is sold in tons of stores, and I'd be willing to bet DayDream will be too, and even sold in cell provider stores. And if *anybody* thinks you're talking about DK2 when you mention Oculus Rift, they definitely know about CV1. Only real enthusiasts have even heard of DK2.
    no, most famous youtubers ( example: jacksepticeye) compared the vive to the dk2, in a way that I assume meant that they didn't know about the cv1, and the gear vr is the most famous in the media because it comes with the galaxy and is actually advertised in best buy stores, gear vr is about the most popular vr headset in the media as of yet.
    so cause an idiot on youtube is an idiot, Rift will fail??? I've been a little critical of Oculus myself but bro... seriously... anyone that brings up that &*%^&$%#* as a justification for anything deserves a shift ban back to wherever they crawled out from...also... I love how you came up with Ouya as an example of retail success lol...
  • Greenfire32Greenfire32 Posts: 364
    Trinity
    we can start worrying about brick-and-mortar stores when the pre-orders are done being delivered.
  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    what stores? like all the brick and mortar stores are closing or dont have much in them

    everybody orders off the net these days its not the 90s
  • in6secondsin6seconds Posts: 405
    Nexus 6
    ebadevil said:
    GearVR is sold in tons of stores, and I'd be willing to bet DayDream will be too, and even sold in cell provider stores. And if *anybody* thinks you're talking about DK2 when you mention Oculus Rift, they definitely know about CV1. Only real enthusiasts have even heard of DK2.
    no, most famous youtubers ( example: jacksepticeye) compared the vive to the dk2, in a way that I assume meant that they didn't know about the cv1, and the gear vr is the most famous in the media because it comes with the galaxy and is actually advertised in best buy stores, gear vr is about the most popular vr headset in the media as of yet.
    so cause an idiot on youtube is an idiot, Rift will fail??? I've been a little critical of Oculus myself but bro... seriously... anyone that brings up that &*%^&$%#* as a justification for anything deserves a shift ban back to wherever they crawled out from...also... I love how you came up with Ouya as an example of retail success lol...
    literally none of the people know about the dk2 or the cv1, only a few might know of the gear vr, but since its not that special, they don't care for it.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,676 Valuable Player
    edited June 2016
    I'm sure all the fictitious folks that have voiced their imagined lack of caring will impact the millions causing shipment delays.

    My favorite way to observe all this "VR fail" is with with my Rift.
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  • greeneblitzgreeneblitz Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    Once there are sub 200$ VR capable AMD cards widely available, the single biggest stumbling block to VR will have been overcome, right now both VR companies can barely keep up with orders, moving too fast and miscalculating is worse than moving too slow for now.
  • tranceology3tranceology3 Posts: 804
    3Jane
    Once there are sub 200$ VR capable AMD cards widely available, the single biggest stumbling block to VR will have been overcome, right now both VR companies can barely keep up with orders, moving too fast and miscalculating is worse than moving too slow for now.
    Yea, I tend to agree with that. It's smarter to produce low than try to over produce the expected demand. I highly doubt that since it's difficult to get a VR HMD (like not being sold in stores) is going to kill this phase of VR; if anything it only stirs up more demand psychologically. But there is still competition, and whoever manages better with their VR product will take the lead. 

    But in a way, I am happy there is at least some great VR content right now and I am at the very beginning of it. Once VR does become mainstream there is gonna be so much crap in there, especially the new generation of kids who claim they "own" it, sorta like how they claim they own social media - when they don't even know how to socialize in real life! Just imagine in the future when all these kids laugh at us for not knowing all the VR lingo, tricks , styles; basically we are gonna be old VR folks!
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,381 Valuable Player
    I don't think retail is really very relevant to the success of Oculus. This is high-end, niche market PC hardware--not the sort of thing most people would go to retail for in the first place. Their online sales are sold out for the next few months. If they've already sold everything they can manufacture for the foreseeable future, why exactly do they need retail again?

    Retail does have some value, in that it can demo the product to people who aren't sold without trying it. It'll get there when they have some stock that isn't already spoken for, and I'm sure they'll pick up some additional sales at that point. In the meantime, sales are going gangbusters, so I doubt that Oculus is too worried about VR flopping.
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  • CLParkerCLParker Posts: 80
    Hiro Protagonist
    no matter how much of a potential it has, vr will flop, because most people are NOT willing to spend such a high price to wait a few months for it to arrive.
    Well, not necessarily, now that the hardware exists, and the SDKs are mature, and commercial games are being made AND sold, the genie is out of the bottle. VR will obviously remain a niche market for the next few years, but flop? no. No freaking way. Look at all the R&D money being thrown into the industry post Oculus and Vive launch. Just like the first CD-ROMs and 3D Accelerator cards, they're going to start off in enthusiast builds until they go mainstream, come pre-packaged with consoles, and they'll be everywhere.

    Just relax, "Big Box Retailing" is going the way of the Dodo anyway.
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