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Thoughts about Room Scale VR

HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,277
3Jane
You need roughly 1m x 1m to stand still holding a gamepad, while being able to rotate 360°

You need an extra ~0.5m clearance on all sides to stretch your arms out if you're going to use 6D hand controllers, so that's 2m x 2m for a standing up experience with 6D hand controllers.

If you want to be able to walk 1m in each direction, then you need a 3m x 3m room (unless you want to keep your controllers stuck to your body).

But 1m is nothing so you really want at least 2m in each direction, which requires a 4m x 4m room.

And most users don't even have a 3m x 3m empty space to dedicate to VR, and probably ten times less then that have a 4m x 4m empty space.

You may think requiring 2m x 2m (from floor to ceiling) for just a 360° standing up experience is stretching it, but truth is my own space is roughly a 1.8m x 1.8 space and before I knew it I found myself both bending forward a bit on top of stretching my arm out as far as I could, which resulted in me banging my hand controller into furniture, so that's an extra 0.1 m missing on each side and 2m x 2m is in fact just barely enough for and adult.

Assuming most users will have to clear up just to achieve a full 2m x 2m empty space right next to their PC just to pull off that kind of standing up VR, then financially speaking that just doesn't leave much room for... room scale VR.

Meaning that outside of an impressive but misleading 4m x 4m demonstration booth, what makes more sense is developing motion sickness free hardware and software mechanics for creating unlimited movement within a 2m x 2m space.

Comments

  • brantlewbrantlew Posts: 540 Oculus Staff
    Cyril said:

    Meaning that outside of an impressive but misleading 4m x 4m demonstration booth, what makes more sense is developing motion sickness free hardware and software mechanics for creating unlimited movement within a 2m x 2m space.
    Outside of some very specific content, you need all that stuff for 4x4 as well.  You can make an argument that everything from 2x2m and greater is all of the same category until you reach sizes that facilitate redirected walking.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,156
    Wintermute
    edited August 2016
    And, don't forget that most game developers go for the biggest market, so the majority of 'room scale' games are designed to be playable standing in one spot. Hence the huge list of 'stand here while zombies run at you' games on Steam.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,277
    3Jane
    edited August 2016
    Well yes, my point is that if room scale requires 4x4 rooms to take off the market isn't small as much as it is insignificant.

    At 4x4 (which is 3x3 walking space and an extra + 0.5m for arm movement only on every side), I believe you do start having enough space to move your body around, such as playing dodge ball, moving behind cover, boxing, fencing, walking around a virtual table game... Which is specific content, but at least there can be a lot of it made.

    But one of the reasons Kinect failed is because it required too much space, and even limited room scale VR requires at least twice as much space...

    And another reason Kinect failed might be that most people didn't want to be moving around too much to begin with, and even redirected walking isn't going to solve that.

    I found an interesting picture about this topic I'll share here :


    I keep spotting articles about the CV1 webcam having an undisclosed width of only 1.5m (5 feet) , which is less then my arm span, but I feel my own CV1 webcam can track more width then that.
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    "Room scale,"... the gimmick that wont make it to next Christmas.  The reason... "Virtuix Omni."

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    I guess we get to bump this thread next Christmas. What happens if roomscale makes it beyond that date? We making a wager, or is this pretend time?
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    How bout this, if anyone cares at all by then, you win.  Fair enough?
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    Even now, I seen huge decrease of chatter on this forum about room scale.  But the big indicator is You Tube- nearly no new videos showing off any significant room scale use.  Sometimes a vid of someone taking a step or two in either direction.  Zenbane, I AM a gambling man and I win far more than I lose.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    edited August 2016
    People who win more than they lose don't actually have to tell people on the Internet that they win more than they lose. A wager in this discussion doesn't involve luck, it involves insight and perception. Dice and cards are a safer bet.

    If you look at my post history from over a month ago, you will find me all over this forum proclaiming that roomscale is a gimmick. So I do agree with you there.

    This is the image I use to illustrate roomscale,




    That's what I see in my mind every time a Vive users comes trolling.

    However, even a gimmick has a place in the free market. The HTC Vive is built around roomscale, and there is no indication that the HTC fanbase is going to abandon their product anytime soon. So your prediction isn't based on any known or observable information. Not to mention that Oculus is working on roomscale as well (Lighthouse vs Constellation). The reason you don't see much roomscale conversation here is because this is the Oculus Forum not the HTC Vive forum. If you wanna see lots of roomscale discussion then head on over to Steam or Reddit.

    If you end up being right then I would probably be a little happy, since I don't really care about roomscale. However, I'm not the kinda person to let my bias lead me to making a bad wager, na' mean?
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    Zenbane. you commented about something I said on a post by a person names Cyril.  Are you stalking me?  I'll have you know I'm heterosexual!  Save it for Craigs List!!  -too funny!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    You posted your thoughts publicly, and you're getting responses. You are very quick to fall in to an unhealthy psychosis.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    Ok, I just read your full post after I wrote my most recent response.  Listen, when I was 12 years old, thebig deal was Atari(and a few others).  I got duped into every game fad up to nearly the age of 15.  I've just seen these patterns.  Gimmicks ultimately rob the consumer.  You're in your forty's, you know what I mean.  Besides, don't you see the Virtux as a far more practical route than room scale?  You gotta think that others will sure connect the dots as well.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    Well there are two different things being said here:

    1) Roomscale is a gimmick
    2) Roomscale won't be around in 2 years or less

    I completely agree with you on the first point. But I can't agree on the second point since even Oculus will be coming out with Roomscale in the future.

    Fad's are terrible, but there's a reason that they are still around long after you were 12 years old. They make money, as unfortunate as that may be. Also, I have to say that I don't care about robbing the consumer. The word "consumer" is another name for the "general public." I can't stand the general public :o
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    edited August 2016
    Where's the "2 years or less" jab coming from?  I don't remember writing that just now. Ok, new issue here... I just tried to boot up Oculus home, and my sensor does not connect!  I was hoping this day would not come, but here it is!  Oculus is NOT functioning properly now.  TIME TO CRY!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    I summarized by saying "2 years or less," but what you actually said was,

    "Room scale,"... the gimmick that wont make it to next Christmas.  The reason... "Virtuix Omni."


    I added a year since next Christmas is 4 months away and that just can't be serious.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    Dude, My Oculus just pooped!  "Sensor is not plugged in," like  so many others!  I gotta figure this out now!  What is this!? 
  • PablitoPablito Posts: 361
    Trinity
    By the way, that picture of the guy on the stepping mat-  very funny.  Accurate depiction of lame room scale!
  • greeneblitzgreeneblitz Posts: 126
    Art3mis
    Roomscale is cool but the equivalent of the early 90s attempts to use those huge arcade inspired gaming controllers, its cool but just doesn't make any sense for a mass market, as far as I can see its a dead end tech for the home.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,909 Valuable Player

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,782 Valuable Player
    Nice pic, kevin. Roomscale definitely has a place amongst indoor family picnics.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,277
    3Jane
    edited August 2016
    Pablito said:
    Even now, I seen huge decrease of chatter on this forum about room scale.  But the big indicator is You Tube- nearly no new videos showing off any significant room scale use.  Sometimes a vid of someone taking a step or two in either direction.
    Well in this forum thread I basically explained why : It's because being able to take just ~2 steps in every direction doesn't require a 2mx2m space but rather a 3m x 3m (to provide the extra 0.5m of room clearance on all four sides to allow for arm movement beyond the smaller walking space), which ~80% of VR users simply don't have.

    With that 2m x 2m space being just barely enough for a standing/sitting experience without bumping your 6D hand controllers into your furniture when stretching your arms out (assuming a ~2m arm span, and assuming you're not bending over to overstretch your reach beyond a 1m radius).

    I see a great future for Touch like 6D hand controllers, as the price of VR drops. But no amount of price drop, not even handing out HTC Vives for free, will allow Room Scale VR to take off in the general public, because for that to happen you'd need to be handing out empty 4mx4m rooms instead.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,909 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Nice pic, kevin. Roomscale definitely has a place amongst indoor family picnics.
    :D
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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