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Thoughts on roomscale (Vive opinion, so skip if not interested)

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yep, I'm back again. Anyone miss me? Nope? Thought not! Anyone remember me? Phew, I'm safe then 🙂

Anyway, if anyone does remember me, you'll know that when I first got my HMD (Vive - don't shoot me), I had a tiny space and could pretty much only play seated games. 

I now have a much larger space - just over 2 metres square, and as such, I've been able to finally sample room scale over the past few weeks. And, in a nutshell, it's awesome. I was never convinced about it before I got my Vive - always thought I'd simply play sitting down, but as soon as I got my Vive and started using it, I knew I needed more space.

The feeling of immersion is hard to put into words. I was playing Island 359 the other day. There was a packing crate standing next to me, and without thinking, I went to lean against it... and fell over.  Just being able to walk around (granted, in a limited fashion) is so liberating and adds so much to a game.  Hearing a monster/dinosaur/zombie coming up behind you, spinning round and offing it... way more satisfying than doing it to an on-screen enemy. Having a weapon fired at you and being able to dodge or duck out of the way. It's just... FUN.

I've heard a few people criticise the teleport method of moving around in a game, but for this generation of VR (and until houses are built with purpose made LARGE VR rooms), it's probably the best compromise we're going to get. And, as a bonus, it's pretty good at not causing motion sickness either 🙂

Not having a go at Rift owners here at all, but motion controllers also add a lot to the game. The sooner you guys get Touch, the better (genuine question here - I'm totally out of the loop with things Oculus - has Touch been given a release date/price yet?). Moving around and aiming with a joypad is absolutely blown out of the water by moving around and using a torch/gun/knife/bow and arrow.

Honestly, if you haven't got enough room for at least limited room scale, knock down a wall or something. You won't regret it!
19 REPLIES 19

Hanover
Rising Star
...actually, there are some people getting ill playing Onward.  Take a look at this thread.

Also, you never really run in that game.  The movement is fairly slow...which is probably how they try to keep it from getting too intense.


JED44
Rising Star

Hanover said:

...actually, there are some people getting ill playing Onward.  Take a look at this thread.

Also, you never really run in that game.  The movement is fairly slow...which is probably how they try to keep it from getting too intense.




It's not a fix all but it certainly works better for more people. the point being it uses traditional locomotion, and does not limit the player to room scale or physically walking.

Also You can sprint in the game, at a realistic pace. you aren't flying around the map like call of duty, but I would not call it slow. You aren't stuck at crawling speed. The slow pace comes more from the way people play then actual game limitations. 

EDIT - here are some threads that corroborates that 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4zyxv3/onward_worried_about_the_touchpad_locomotion/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/50z8aw/how_is_onward_not_giving_me_any_locomotion/

JakemanOculus
Heroic Explorer
No one will argue that room scale doesn't give you an amazing feeling of presence.  But there are extremely few good applications at the scale of a room.  That is why most "room scale" applications are actually "standing scale", and most of those are wave shooters which suck.  The few applications which go beyond standing scale almost always break the boundaries of the room which then requires movement hacks which are gimmicky and totally immersion-breaking which sucks.

So basically room scale is extremely immersive and all of its applications suck.

JED44
Rising Star


No one will argue that room scale doesn't give you an amazing feeling of presence.  But there are extremely few good applications at the scale of a room.  That is why most "room scale" applications are actually "standing scale", and most of those are wave shooters which suck.  The few applications which go beyond standing scale almost always break the boundaries of the room which then requires movement hacks which are gimmicky and totally immersion-breaking which sucks.

So basically room scale is extremely immersive and all of its applications suck.


That is why I find a hybrid system like onward works best, with other locomotion options for people who cant handle one (raw data is an example that uses a dash style tp instead of traditional, works very well both as a more immersive method and fits in with the world).

 The only room scale you really need to get 90% of the benefits is standing room plus about an arm size radius of space in all directions. That gives you a full 360 range of motion with motion controllers, plus a bit of space for ducking and dodging and side stepping. 

EDIT - pretty much what everyone is going to be doing with touch, just with slightly more space then a 2ft x 2ft or 3 ft by 3ft standing box. 

HiThere_
Superstar
For an adult ~3ft x 3ft is what you need to rotate 360° with your hands near your body.

Enough space to stretch out your arms 360° starts at 6.5ft x 6.5ft.

If you want to be able to both bend over and stretch your arms out, a bit more then that.

And that's without side stepping : Add ~1 ft by sidestep.

But basically, at 6.5ft x 6.5ft you have what you need to get rid of teleportation, lean sideways, jump and crouch, without worrying about stretching your arms out as long as you don't also bend over in the same direction.

Less space then that and you'll be banging your hand controllers into things, and have to learn not to fully stretch your arms out. More space then that and you can bend over more and/or start moving your feet (instead of only being able to duck and lean sideways) : That's for someone ~6 ft tall.

Where does room scale and teleportation fit in : Nowhere really, unless the game is designed to fit entirely in the size of your room (like Hover Junkers), or is designed around the concept of only teleporting instead of walking (like Jeeboman). Using teleportation for room scale in a room that's too small, or for walking, is what doesn't work, room scale should fit in a room and teleportation should be used for teleporting (not as an alternative method for walking).

Anonymous
Not applicable
@Shpinxis
I thought roomscale was a gimmick too. Until I got my grubby hands on my Vive and experienced (very limited, due to space) standing games. Having now been lucky enough to try it, I would say that it's no less gimmicky than motion controllers or even the whole concept of a VR headset. Like it or not, it's a big plus point for VR gaming (IMO of course).  Yes, locomotion is an issue, but that's not the fault of the technology, more that most of us simply don't have a large enough roomspace to be able to freely move around. Sorry, but (again, IMO) motion controls add a hell of a lot to most VR games. Being able to aim, grab, throw etc add a new dimension of reality that a joypad simply doesn't come close providing.

@Shadowmask72
Nope, not tried Raw Data yet, but have heard good things so am eager to give it a try! Unfortunately, I have someone staying with me for a few weeks, so my VR space is temporarily occupied by a bed, but I'll definitely be trying that one 🙂

@Viswar
You can never have enough space. My current space is just over 2 metres square and I'd say that's adequate. However, much more than a pace in any direction (I'm 6'4 so have long legs!) and chaperone rears its ugly (but hugely necessary) head. For walking around, nope, not really enough space, but once you get used to the limits of chaperone and your area, it's not much of an issue, to me at least.

@Cyril
Your rug idea is a good one. Of course, I have chaperone to keep me from ramming into things (never yet come close to damaging anything, although I suspect that's more luck than anything else!). A rug might help a little, even with chaperone.

@maxpare79
Onward is another game I'm very keen to try. However, I am quite prone to motion sickness, so I'm a little wary. Plus, my roomspace is a bit small to 'rush around' in. I'll have to look into this one a bit more 🙂 I'm not sure teleportation should go. At least not until there's a viable alternative for everyone, not just those lucky enough to have the space to move freely around in.

Warbloke
Superstar

notsram said:

I was playing Island 359 the other day. There was a packing crate standing next to me, and without thinking, I went to lean against it... and fell over.  


I wonder if you injured yourself you could call one of those heavily advertised injury lawyers and make a case against STEAM - after all they sold you something which tricked you into believing the crate was there when it wasn't really - resulting in you becoming injured.
"You can't believe everything you read on the Internet " :- Abraham Lincoln 

JakemanOculus
Heroic Explorer

notsram said:

@Shpinxis
I thought roomscale was a gimmick too. Until I got my grubby hands on my Vive and experienced (very limited, due to space) standing games. Having now been lucky enough to try it, I would say that it's no less gimmicky than motion controllers or even the whole concept of a VR headset. Like it or not, it's a big plus point for VR gaming (IMO of course).  Yes, locomotion is an issue, but that's not the fault of the technology, more that most of us simply don't have a large enough roomspace to be able to freely move around. Sorry, but (again, IMO) motion controls add a hell of a lot to most VR games. Being able to aim, grab, throw etc add a new dimension of reality that a joypad simply doesn't come close providing.



Roomscale = gimmick
VR inputs = awesome
Roomscale != VR inputs
Roomscale != awesome

fixed

Anonymous
Not applicable

Atmos73 said:

@notsram Onward is the best muliplayer game on Vive right now and you really don't need a large room to play it. Every Vive owner should own this game. Its the only game where my controllers battery runs out while playing because its so addictive and you have such a laugh while playing. Plenty of updates on the way and the Dev is second to none.


Did a bit of reading up on this last night. Very very tempted. Looks like a lot of fun! may make this my next purchase once my visitor finally leaves and I have my VR room back!

Anonymous
Not applicable
Finally got to try Raw Data last night. Installed it about 6pm UK time, thought "I'll just play this for 15 minutes before I go make some food" and next thing I knew it was almost 10pm 😛