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Touch Controller Concerns



  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,617 Valuable Player

    Yea every sale doesn't mean you lose - just means you play smart. I know I can fix 99% of all computer problems, but I look at the customer first before fixing them. Can that mean I lose a sell? Yup, but at the end of the day - it's better to turn away "Download A Lot" then to have them come back the next day wondering why their pc are full of virus again:)

    Idk, price and everything else with Touch seems ok with me. They will soon bundle the product up with Touch or the optional HMD only. They're waiting both on software/games, OC, and manufacturing. We also seen Touch go through at least 2 revisions already. Even if Touch release today- there wouldn't be that many titles you could play with it. Yea you can name off a hand few - but once you play them - then what? That's the problem Vive is facing at this time. Not enough content ready to keep everyone playing.

  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,899 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    falken76 said:
    I'm sure the reason for the delay is getting developers ready early enough to launch a bunch of "touch" games when it is released.
    Yep, on top of which there is no single business that makes it their concern to get "every single sale." That would involve a monopoly which is illegal anyway. Even if Oculus shipped with perfect room-scale and touch controllers a month before HTC ever released the Vive... there are still consumers who would pick a different product just out of principal. In a free market we like our options. But @lovethis thinks it wise for a business to make every decision on something impractical. Chasing ones own tail is not an effective cycle for success.

    The market is healthy at the moment, it encourages competition and that is what drives progress and lowers costs.  The vive's earlier release of their controllers encouraged Oculus to refine what they had designed because they're responding to the market.  Vive will in turn do something similar once Oculus releases the touch.  I say welcome it in all it's glory, Costs need to be driven down for this to be attractive to consumers.  Then we might actually see populated game rooms for multiplayer  ;)  Right now it's everyone has a Gear VR and a couple people here and there have Rift or Vive.  I want to see more people outside of chat or social programs, but they don't have the hardware to play the games I want to play.  Competition is good. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,008 Valuable Player
    edited September 2016
    I would also add that "sales" are quarterly/yearly, they are not a one-time thing. If Oculus tries to get every single sale with the CV1, all HTC has to do is analyze the CV1 themselves, and then release something better next year. Then consumers will ditch their CV1 in favor of the HTC upgrade. HTC would love it if Oculus was foolish enough to focus all their talent and resources on getting "every sale" with the CV1. They would be so bogged down trying to perfect something... that HTC would be able to sit back, relax, and plan their next move.

    That is why some people can run a business successfully, and others just talk about it online lol

    Apple, Microsoft, and Linux have been sharing the consumer PC market for many long years. The market fluctuates, and each passing year is an opportunity to improve upon the previous. You win some, you lose some. A smart businessman knows how to manage that which cannot be fully controlled.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,617 Valuable Player
    edited September 2016
    The only concerns I would have would be if they are really manufacturing a head of time and stocking up or if they're planing to release just like they always have. I know the controllers are 100x faster to build, but I rather not see a release get bloch with another delay :)

    I wonder if they're going to release software along with the controllers + camera? For example, I don't mean a game, but a see though mode so you can at least tell where you are kind of are in the room. 
  • kernowkernow Posts: 733
    edited September 2016
    Zenbane said:

    There is no history of early access or pre-order in the Info Tech world that ever turned out good for the consumer.
    (Note, I'm not arguing with the rest of your comment, just nit-picking this one statement).
    The problem with this statement is that he is not talking about the Dev kits at this point, he is referring to the ordering and the pre-ordering of the consumer product, now open to the wide commercial market state of the CV1 v. Vive. It is no longer early access, it is the ordering and the pre-ordering of the widely commercially available product. It would be equivalent to ordering or pre-ordering XB or PS, and he made a judgement on one having a component that the other did not have which he considered to be a necessary component for both to be usable.
    (Again, was only just nitpicking the one statement... don't really have any problem with the rest. I get twitchy sometimes when a statement in an argument seems faulty [regardless if I am on the same side of the argument, or the opposite side of the argument].)
  • pjennesspjenness Posts: 691
    Also.. a tonne of rift users have Leap Motion. I guess that was the closest alternative controls (although many like myself may have had them since DK2)
    In Altspace, the vive and gear owners wish they had leap motion, just as gear and CV1 owners wish they had vive wands. There were a few leap motion vive users, where the vive controls were dangling at their side, as they are kinda pointless there.
    Everyone wanted the perception suit.

    They all work. have different functionalities. Touch not here hasnt incapacitated anyone. Just means some titles have more time to Dev and prob be here around christmas.

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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Zenbane said:

    "My reason for cancelling Rift and going the Vive route was mostly down to Oculus messing their customers around so much."

    The only customers who feel this way are those who allowed themselves to become emotionally invested in a situation where they should have just been a competent spectator. There is no history of early access or pre-order in the Info Tech world that ever turned out good for the consumer. And there is no reason that after the year 2000 anyone should still act like they "believed everything a company said only to get hurt by their later actions."

    To this day there are still automobile recalls for safety. Hell in recent years even Almonds were recalled for safety. And the restaurant Chioptle is predicted to implode due to its own E. Coli outbreak, which has caused their profits to drop by over 80%

    There are real problems organizations are having to deal with, that impact peoples lives in a truly detrimental way. Yet these early VR adopters turn vive drones act like they were screwed over by something that is primarily used for video games lol...

    "For this generation at least, Touch is always going to be seen as a peripheral rather than an integral part of Rift"

    A viewpoint that starts and stops with those whom are afflicted with that problem of needlessly attaching the source of their happiness on to an external entity. Just because you set yourself up to get hurt doesn't mean that other more sensible and emotionally secure individuals won't be able to enjoy their product choice.
    I'd have been happy being a spectator. and I'd have happily waited for my Rift if Oculus had just been a bit more open about the delays. I ordered my Rift the day pre-orders opened. I ordered my Vive about 6 weeks later as a backup option, and said at the time I'd go with whichever system shipped first. That was Vive. No fuss. No broken promises or missed dates. It simply arrived on time.

    I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you. I don't think I've ever once said Rift is a lesser system than Vive. It's simply not as complete a system at the moment.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,617 Valuable Player
    I think you both have a point, but are kind of the other side of the camp if you get what I mean?

    Zenbane, that delay was kind of a broken promise for some and that has put the meme into their product line now. You can't simple ignore that they did have a part shortage or the fact they were not building stock up before hand. I almost jump ship myself and cancel my order after it was delay. That does put a scare into even the most sensible of people, lol. The only thing that kept me with my order was that I knew delays happen and just waited my turn. I did order a Vive at around a month later just in case it wasn't going to happen, but I did put a limit too how long I was going to wait for the Oculus if it was going to come in. They were on their last week, so they did get lucky in that time frame.

    On the other hand Nostram, there were a lot of people that did set themselves up for a fault of a broken dream as well. I remember a TON of people expecting dates and times that were not really realistic nor understanding on what was going on at the time. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,008 Valuable Player
    edited September 2016
    kernow said:

    The problem with this statement is that he is not talking about the Dev kits at this point, he is referring to the ordering and the pre-ordering of the consumer product, now open to the wide commercial market state of the CV1 v. Vive. It is no longer early access
    I very much disagree, and several folks have stated as much on this forum recently: going from a "demo kit" to a "consumer version 1" is literally the act of moving from "early access" to "early adoption." Let's reference 2 video games as an example: Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls Online.

    Both of these MMORPG's had a closed and open beta. Then they allowed pre-orders with special rewards for Collectors Edition. And when both were released they were terrible flops (at first), and the bonuses for pre-orders and collectors edition were a joke at best. Most gaming articles make fun of all the bonuses people hope to receive from being 'first.' You get a magic ring, a special cape, and a pink mount... all of which become obsolete after the first 2 hours of gameplay lol

    The demo kits were "first before the public." The CV1 is "first public release." The point in my original post is that being "first" at anything in Info Tech is a terrible idea unless you enjoy the journey that products take... from a painful beginning to a (hopefully) glorious middle and end. Going back to the MMORPG examples... it is always best to wait at least 6 months after release to give developers time to make the game they were hoping for at release.

    More on the gaming examples:

    1) Dark Age of Camelot
    This game sucked the first year, but became legendary afterwards.

    2) Shadowbane, Warhammer Online
    Both games were cancelled after about 1 years time, since they never recovered.

    3) Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls Online
    Age of Conan took about 2 years to become a solid product. Elder Scrolls Online took almost a year before anyone would bother recommending it.

    Case in point... if you wanna experience something great in Info Tech, don't be first. At the very least go for second season. Thus: get the CV2 and avoid the CV1 if you're wanting things to be stellar at the start.
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  • EbonyknightEbonyknight Posts: 111
    lovethis said:
    I'm going to Big screen and Alt Space now.  Come join me and we can all see who's using what device.
    Maybe I am missing something, but isn't Big Screen just a VR view of your browser in a virtual house setting?  I tried it and it didn't seem to be all that. 

    What am I missing?
  • kernowkernow Posts: 733
    Zenbane said:

    [... clarification ...]
    No disagreement with that, then. :)
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