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Can't use Touch with a single camera

DimaDima Posts: 95
Hiro Protagonist
edited October 2016 in Support
Hi,

Is it possible to use Touch with a single camera? When I try to use them (btw, what app or game would you recommend to test them with?) with SteamVR and apps that support Touch (Big screen, for example) the controllers lose tracking and fly away each half a second or so.
Dmitry Kurilchenko

[VR Jam 2015] Wendy

Comments

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,173 Valuable Player
    So you have touch controller already? You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
  • DimaDima Posts: 95
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited October 2016
    lovethis said:
    So you have touch controller already? You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
    Yes, not a consumer version, though. I know that it would be much less convenient to use Toch with a single camera even if it works but I have only one at the moment.
    Dmitry Kurilchenko

    [VR Jam 2015] Wendy
  • DimaDima Posts: 95
    Hiro Protagonist
    lovethis said:
    You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
    I missed that it absolutely requires having 2 cameras. Have you seen that written in some docs or was it communicated by someone from Oculus?
    Dmitry Kurilchenko

    [VR Jam 2015] Wendy
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    With just one camera on your desk, it's easy to move your hand outside of the tracking area - the camera sensors weren't really designed to track objects that can be moved an arm's length away from the center from nearby. You will probably have a better experience if you move your sensor camera further away (and recalibrate the sensor), so you are in a larger part of its viewing cone.
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    Dima said:
    lovethis said:
    You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
    I missed that it absolutely requires having 2 cameras. Have you seen that written in some docs or was it communicated by someone from Oculus?
    Touch comes with a second camera.  That's the whole point, so you'll have the required number of cameras to use touch.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,173 Valuable Player
    edited October 2016
    Dima said:
    lovethis said:
    You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
    I missed that it absolutely requires having 2 cameras. Have you seen that written in some docs or was it communicated by someone from Oculus?
    If you are facing the sensor then it will track the touch controllers. But as soon as you turn 180 degrees you are no longer facing the camera and will lose tracking due to the controllers been masked. You need 2 sensors so that the controllers can be constantly tracked. There is even talk of 3 sensors been the best setup.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    Dima said:
    Hi,

    Is it possible to use Touch with a single camera? When I try to use them (btw, what app or game would you recommend to test them with?) with SteamVR and apps that support Touch (Big screen, for example) the controllers lose tracking and fly away each half a second or so.
    It's supposed to be a minimum of 2 cameras.  The one that came with your rift, and there's one that comes with touch.  A 3rd camera will be available later on.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    Dima said:
    lovethis said:
    You will need at least 2 sensors because you will lose tracking if you use just one.
    I missed that it absolutely requires having 2 cameras. Have you seen that written in some docs or was it communicated by someone from Oculus?
    Take a look at what is packed in with the Touch controllers, it comes with an additional camera.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    With just one camera on your desk, it's easy to move your hand outside of the tracking area 
    I don't know what you've done wrong but I have something like 12 feetx 12 feet with one sensor. Huge tracking area. If your hand would be outside tracking area you've done something wrong. One sensor will track both controllers in a front facing position just fine. The reason for two sensors is for occlusion angles. 
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    With just one camera on your desk, it's easy to move your hand outside of the tracking area 
    I don't know what you've done wrong but I have something like 12 feetx 12 feet with one sensor. Huge tracking area. If your hand would be outside tracking area you've done something wrong. One sensor will track both controllers in a front facing position just fine. The reason for two sensors is for occlusion angles. 
    That's impossible. If you are sitting at your desk with a camera on that desk, it won't have a 12 foot viewing area, and will be very easy for you to move your hands out of its view. The camera view is conical - the further you are away from it, the larger its view. Thus my recommendation that the OP move their camera further away.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    With just one camera on your desk, it's easy to move your hand outside of the tracking area 
    I don't know what you've done wrong but I have something like 12 feetx 12 feet with one sensor. Huge tracking area. If your hand would be outside tracking area you've done something wrong. One sensor will track both controllers in a front facing position just fine. The reason for two sensors is for occlusion angles. 
    That's impossible. If you are sitting at your desk with a camera on that desk, it won't have a 12 foot viewing area, and will be very easy for you to move your hands out of its view. The camera view is conical - the further you are away from it, the larger its view. Thus my recommendation that the OP move their camera further away.
    It's not impossible, And no I don't have my camera " on my desk" I have it at eye level on the wall with a mount. it's a fact. Maybe it's more like 9 or 10 feet but you get the point.  Check out Deskscene: https://www.wearvr.com/apps/desk-scene-check-your-camera-bounds

    What are you even talking about? Do you mean if you put your hands behind you? Of course it cant see your hands. My camera tracks my arms width easily. 

    You make it sound like you can't move, or your hand is lost if you extend your arm.  Again, the reason for more sensors is for angles that will occlude the controllers. 
    If you mean your hand behind you, then you're arguing the obvious and I have no idea why you're arguing with me. I quoted you because your wording is very poor.
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    Daddoofly78 said:
    It's not impossible, And no I don't have my camera " on my desk" I have it at eye level on the wall with a mount. it's a fact.
    Huh? That was my exact point. If you had it on your desk and you were sitting at your desk then it would have been impossible for you to hold your arms out to the sides and have both Touches be tracked. Thus my recommendation to the OP that if that is what he did, then he should move the camera sensor further back.

    I don't see how what I said was worded poorly, it states clearly that with just one camera on your desk (as Oculus tells people to do in the current non-Touch setup), it's easy to move your hand outside of the tracking area. The OP is having tracking problems with just one camera, so I was giving advice on what may be the problem.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    I didn't realize the key to what you were saying was "on your desk" hehe.

    Ya...having the sensor on a speaker stand or on a camera mount, on the wall is better. Five feet to seven feet or so up is best. On your desk is complete poop. I learned that pretty quick.
  • goldenegggoldenegg Posts: 552
    Trinity
    edited October 2016
    I didn't realize the key to what you were saying was "on your desk" hehe.

    Ya...having the sensor on a speaker stand or on a camera mount, on the wall is better. Five feet to seven feet or so up is best. On your desk is complete poop. I learned that pretty quick.
    Oculus only supports the sensor at a distance of 3ft from the HMD.  At 9 - 10 feet, you're going to have some pretty significant tracking wobble.

    Adding additional sensors increases this range, but Oculus isn't ready to talk about specifics for that yet.  Support has suggested to watch the blog, as they will be making announcements about this soon.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    goldenegg said:
    Oculus only supports the sensor at a distance of 3ft from the HMD. 
    You got your facts mixed up. They recommend you set it up  3-4 feet away. As opposed to closer than that. We all know when wobble happens.Not really relevant here.  Putting your sensor higher up    vastly increases tracking space. I'm sorry but you're kind of arguing common knowledge. Anyone serious about their set up has their sensor/s not on their desk, but on a book shelf,  the wall or even ceiling upside down.

    Can you think before you post? 3 feet? Ya...right lol That's some serious room scale thar.
  • goldenegggoldenegg Posts: 552
    Trinity
    edited October 2016
    You try contacting support with an tracking issue and tell them you have your sensor at 9ft.  They won't support you until you bring it to the supported 3ft distance.

    Note that the official instructions state "Place the sensor on your desk, 3 ft. (1 meter) in front of where you will be wearing the headset".  It doesn't say "at least 3ft" or "a minimum of 3ft".  It specifically says to place the sensor 3ft in front of you.

    https://support.oculus.com/help/oculus/562824827213445

    Here's a quote from support for a case I had, where my sensor was at 4 ft.
    The sensor is best placed 3 feet away from you, not 4. When it's placed further away, the signal isn't as strong, and it won't be able to track you as well as it should.
    They would not investigate the issue with the sensor at 4ft away.  Moving it to 3ft resolved the issue.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    edited October 2016
    I never said I have it at 9 feet. Wow this guy haha. You REALLY think everyone is  playing 3 feet away from their sensor? haha. That's how far mine is, if I stand right at my desk, which is the correct set up. This gives me some 6 feet space behind me free of wobble/before wobble happens.

    You seem to be interpreting this as you set it up 3 feet from you, then....don't move. 
    It says to set it up 3-4 feet from you AS OPPOSED TO CLOSER THAN THAT. You don't set it up at 1-2 feet.


  • goldenegggoldenegg Posts: 552
    Trinity
    Daddoofly78 said:

    And no I don't have my camera " on my desk" I have it at eye level on the wall with a mount. it's a fact. Maybe it's more like 9 or 10 feet but you get the point.  
    Calm down.  This is the quote I read.  Reading it again I see that it can be read to also refer to your tracking range.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    edited October 2016

    When I said 9-10 feet I meant total tracking distance. Obviously. Really didn't think anyone could possibly misinterpret that any other way. 
  • goldenegggoldenegg Posts: 552
    Trinity
    It's like talking to a two year old. What, now it's clear for ya?

    @cybereality is this honestly what you accept around this forum as a way for people to talk to each other?  

    I'm done with this forum until it's properly moderated.
  • Comic_Book_GuyComic_Book_Guy Posts: 1,212
    3Jane
    Dude, you argued facts with me and had the audacity to maintain we're supposed to set it up no more than 3 feet away from the HMD. You're hilarious. Stop : /
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,483 Volunteer Moderator
    The camera is 100 degrees by 70 degrees.
    At 5 feet from the camera the frustum would be roughly 12 feet by 7 feet.

    My camera is sitting on my desk on top of my tower case (which is sideways behind my monitors). It's about 4.3 feet from my head when sitting at the desk. That gives me an area of 10.24 x 6 feet.

    (urgh, it feels bad doing trig in feet)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,822 Volunteer Moderator
    edited October 2016
    my feet are 1.8 metres away
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.330)
  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,483 Volunteer Moderator
    my feet are 1.8 metres away
    From the camera or the hmd? :)

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,822 Volunteer Moderator

    good thing we're not using sticks, shaftments, rods or poles to measure... way too many smutty joke opportunities

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v2004 (19041.330)
  • daSmirnovdaSmirnov Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    edited October 2016
    Dima said:
    Hi,

    Is it possible to use Touch with a single camera? When I try to use them (btw, what app or game would you recommend to test them with?) with SteamVR and apps that support Touch (Big screen, for example) the controllers lose tracking and fly away each half a second or so.

    You can definitely use the developer touch controllers with a single camera.  Obviously if you block visibility with the camera you do lose tracking and you might need to re-arrange yourself in places.  But I went through and played pretty much all the Vive games on Steam with them.

    When I get the final ones on the 6th of December, I will be using that second camera, probably behind me.
  • XlordBXlordB Posts: 289
    Nexus 6
    Ive seen a vid of a guy with one sensor placed atop of ladders in a room at the corner getting full roomscale tracking the only area he lost tracking was practically underneath the sensor... the sensors are able to track quite a distance away. If you get the angle perfect.. same idea as the vives up high about 45deg you get a really good roomscale experience.. couple this with one more sensor and you wouldnt likely need a 3rd sensor for full roomscale.. please bear in mind this all depends on the size of your room if you live in a shoebox then two sensors or one will not be effective roomscale due to you being to close to either sensor.. So if you live in a house with a decent sized roomspace then imo two sensors should do the job more than enough provided you have them at opposite room corners up high facing 45 deg. all area within the middle of the roomspace will be tracked fine. Id also like to point out that although roomscale is great tech and all that it really isnt all that necessary mainly because the movement options within games etc give you more than enough fun you dont have to run around your room like a nutcase. Majority of content can be played by moving literally 4 feet each direction. So until we have true roomscale which is a wireless headset that keeps a charge for 24 hours without having to recharge i dont get what people are arguing about.. the third sensor option is OPTIONAL!!! and its optional for the reason i just stated depending on your houseroom size. 
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