New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

Did Zenbane and Atmos73 deserve the ban hammer?

OpticKingOpticKing Posts: 1,185
Wintermute
edited December 2016 in Off-Topic
Title says it all, just curious to see the communities opinion.

Did Zenbane and Atmos73 deserve the ban hammer? 110 votes

Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
46%
cyberealityAntonieBjabkevinw729Otreumtranceology3amegasdanknugzColinBlukwtwzShort_OneRonsonPLThreeDeeVisionBloodletkuraikamivinwijProtocol7deanogurSkavageDaftnDirect 51 votes
Yes, Zenbane; No, Atmos.
7%
AwacsRoasterEvileyesPablitograntalopeGreenfire32mbze430Thane_ 8 votes
Yes, Atmos; No, Zenbane.
6%
jayhawkMaxxgoldRavenVetraHanoverTadinMrKuddenHodders67 7 votes
Neither should have, most of the stuff was trivial and mildly entertaining.
12%
vannagirlzbosonelbofforTechy111Percy1983Mr.CreepyWarblokeOpticKingincrediclintApplecorpcero490A.ForceeskimobillFunkengreuven 14 votes
Noooo, closest and possibly only chance for forum master rank is gone now!
1%
pjennessZenbane 2 votes
Who cares, I have touch now!!!!!1!!!one!!!!
4%
LuciferousSyndroidArock387EliteSPAxWandererx 5 votes
Who cares, didn't need/want touch.
0%
Who got banned again?
11%
SyntheticKalec84LandrakesmogzyPete2458niebyl2002Khyber_GTneocalericfalken76Jayt0302tristancliffeAmtkhogcleetose 13 votes
Screw this poll, I'm going back to vr.
9%
blanesblyths69GenetixStudioZadnezleo1954auelrealchiquiKLOWN2Alacerdft69dgSpunkWorks 10 votes
«1345

Comments

  • OpticKingOpticKing Posts: 1,185
    Wintermute
    Neither should have, most of the stuff was trivial and mildly entertaining.
    I do, had em since the 6th. They are great, and I'm having a blast, but you also gotta take a break sometime lol.

    Arms are sore from archery in the lab and windlanding, legs are sore from dodging like a fool in dead n buried, beaten bullet train at least a dozen times by now. (already impatient for robo recall, they got me hooked)

    So I am waiting, until my muscles stop burning enough for another go. :)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,385 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2016
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.

    I was surprised at how physical games have become... I thought I was fit but I'm just not use to holding my hands above my head like that in The Climb, 30 mins and I to let things dangle for a while.

    Edit: I suppose I should vote

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.592)
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,233 Valuable Player
    Who cares, I have touch now!!!!!1!!!one!!!!
    Not that I read the arguments but it just became annoying scrolling through the endless jibes. Shame both when not arguing are good contributors to the forum.
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    wow, so it finally happened. Honestly in my humble opinion this forum, as well as r oculus and r vive needs to calm the hell down with the anti this anti that rhetoric. 

    Literally both sides are saying the same crap about the other being fanboys and spamming and anti rift anti vive this or that. its silly. 

    I joined these forums back before release and ended up getting my vive first and enjoying it, so I talked about that alot, and would defend this or that when it was attacked, particularly by people who had never experienced or tried it. Got into my own arguments with Zenbane, but overall there was still a good amount of bad will towards anyone saying literally anything about the vive or anything less then stellar about the rift. Even when it wasn't being spammed. 

    Not to say that that was everyone, I've had alot of good discussions on here as well after all that died down. But the whole castle mentality needs to lighten up here. I can understand people getting frustrated with Atmos' posts, though I don't think things would've gone that far had people not attacked him so much. 

    Zenbane was no shining pillar either. He had his own opinions like Atmos, but would troll quite a bit and made things ridiculous for anyone like atmos or myself that had other opinions. 

    In any case, I stopped posting as much cause of all that. Why bother discussing if no ones going to actually discuss with you. Hopefully things calm down and people have more good will now that Touch is out and with Revive everyone's playing the same games with very similar features. 
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,988
    3Jane
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    so was there one final blowup or something? missed all the action.
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    Bear in mind latterly posts were being deleted which you wouldn't necessarily have noticed, in order to keep threads on track... not ideal.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.592)
  • OpticKingOpticKing Posts: 1,185
    Wintermute
    edited December 2016
    Neither should have, most of the stuff was trivial and mildly entertaining.
    danknugz said:
    so was there one final blowup or something? missed all the action.
    Looking through both their comment history, it doesn't look like it. Probably a collective thing that built up over time, instead of a big bang argument. Last posts from zen were that he had gotten his shipping e-mail, atmos was talking about the climb in a climb thread.

    Edit: Hadn't thought of that (the above post) and didn't see posts of the like before deletion, so I hadn't taken those into consideration.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    edited December 2016
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    No, there is was no single "death blow" but a few particularly heated  arguments over the last few days (most of which had been deleted by the volunteer mods, so they won't show in the post history). It was more of a death by 100 paper-cuts kind of thing. 
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
    Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV
  • AndyW1384AndyW1384 Posts: 307
    Trinity
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    Yes. Deliberate trolling by anyone on a forum is unacceptable; it makes a forum a hostile and unwelcoming place. Why Oculus let this go on so long, considering the impression it would have given to new or potential customers looking for information, puzzles me greatly.

    I'd damn near given up on the forum completely. I still might. I just hope Oculus have actually started upholding their own rules consistently.
  • kevink808kevink808 Posts: 803
    3Jane
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    No, there is was no single "death blow" but a few particularly heated  arguments over the last few days (most of which had been deleted by the volunteer mods, so they won't show in the post history). It was more of a death by 100 paper-cuts kind of thing. 
    No need to justify your actions. I'm pretty new here and I was already getting sick of it.  I think the majority interested in a rational and mature forum community will be fully supportive of your actions.  If you do allow them back in later, hopefully it's probation.
    Rift-S, Quest 128GB, GO 64GB.
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    I'm surprised this even warrants a poll?

    Those two guys couldn't leave each other alone and made it into a sport to antagonize each other. 

    it had nothing to do with Oculus or any of their products or with VR as a whole anymore.
    It was neither informative nor entertaining anymore so maybe a little chill out is what is required.

    There's always a way to respectfully disagree.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,385 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2016
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    @AndyW1384, I've been to several forms and had always been impressed with the above average levels of freedom and discretion given to members here, that's before volunteering to mod. After taking this position I've been keen to carry on the process in the same vain. People tend to behave mors like adults if you treat them as such.

    I can't speak for the other mods but I'm not planning on changing my style, and I sincerely hope cyber doesn't change his. if this means we lose you as a member that would be a shame, we'd have to live with it.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.592)
  • kevink808kevink808 Posts: 803
    3Jane
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    Anyone who isn't new to the internet knows damn well "no holds barred", "self-policing", etc., forums do not work. Anonymity brings out the asshole in a lot of sociopathic people who don't feel constrained by social norms because they are shielded from the consequences of their actions.  Sometimes you have to sacrifice some personal liberties for more security, or in this case community standards.  If we had to use our real identities then sure, I'd support self-policing.
    Rift-S, Quest 128GB, GO 64GB.
  • jabjab Posts: 211
    Nexus 6
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    Looks like I might consider participating in this forum again..
  • ApplecorpApplecorp Posts: 741
    3Jane
    edited December 2016
    Neither should have, most of the stuff was trivial and mildly entertaining.
    Bring them back I say. It's not like they're actually hurting anyone.

    If you don't like it ignore them, it's easy, you instinctively skim past there posts if you really need to. Personally it didn't bother me at all, in fact I thought it was amusing in a school playground kind of way.
  • brantlewbrantlew Posts: 540 Oculus Staff
    HoIIywood said:

    Man, internet forums are like college campuses, a bunch of softies hiding in safe spaces.
    No wonder this generation cannot function socially, they cower and run away from any sign of resistance.

    Old school conversation : 

    Hi,
    Hello,
    You're ugly,
    You're fat,
    Cool want to be friends?
    Yes!



    ?

    That is not at all how complete strangers meet in the real world.  Physical meetings are very restrained until people know each other well.  (only close friends comfortably insult each other like that).  It's just too dangerous in the real world to talk smack all the time - especially to known enemies because guys get into physical fights.  My guess is that Zenbane and Atmos would be quite different if you met them in person or they met each other in person.

    But the Internet is a strange place because all of the social conventions and checks and balances that you need for protection in the real world just don't apply.  So people (men in particular) immediately launch into insults with strangers without any repercussions.  Ironically, the world is somehow more civilized when people can get their ass beat on a moments notice.
  • HoIIywoodHoIIywood Posts: 325
    Trinity
    edited December 2016
    brantlew said:
    HoIIywood said:

    Man, internet forums are like college campuses, a bunch of softies hiding in safe spaces.
    No wonder this generation cannot function socially, they cower and run away from any sign of resistance.

    Old school conversation : 

    Hi,
    Hello,
    You're ugly,
    You're fat,
    Cool want to be friends?
    Yes!



    ?

    That is not at all how complete strangers meet in the real world.  Physical meetings are very restrained until people know each other well.  (only close friends comfortably insult each other like that).  It's just too dangerous in the real world to talk smack all the time - especially to known enemies because guys get into physical fights.  My guess is that Zenbane and Atmos would be quite different if you met them in person or they met each other in person.

    But the Internet is a strange place because all of the social conventions and checks and balances that you need for protection in the real world just don't apply.  So people (men in particular) immediately launch into insults with strangers without any repercussions.  Ironically, the world is somehow more civilized when people can get their ass beat on a moments notice.
    Maybe you misunderstood. The point was that you didn't always have to have some metaphysical special-K experience to get on with someone; in fact sometimes get along was a necessity towards reaching a goal, so you learned to work with not against. Remember there was no social media to run to to explain to your friends how dreadful it was to be around someone for four hours at work or whatever your daily issue is.

    You make a good comment about only friends behaving in such a jostling way, yes, if you take my word literally I would suspect that's more accurate. Though there was a time where people DID NOT PUNCH YOU FOR SAYING THINGS THEY DID NOT LIKE TO HEAR. The difference is, people had tolerance, restraint, discipline and sometimes compassion for another's disposition which may have lead them to be angry or aggressive. Remember 'taking the high road?' 'walking away from a fight?' 'being the better man?'

    I am sorry younger people now live in a more violent world despite all the efforts we made in the past to create a safe and violent-less future for them. 
    kevink808 said:
    Anyone who isn't new to the internet knows damn well "no holds barred", "self-policing", etc., forums do not work. Anonymity brings out the asshole in a lot of sociopathic people who don't feel constrained by social norms because they are shielded from the consequences of their actions.  Sometimes you have to sacrifice some personal liberties for more security, or in this case community standards.  If we had to use our real identities then sure, I'd support self-policing.

    @AndyW1384, I've been to several forms and had always been impressed with the above average levels of freedom and discretion given to members here, that's before volunteering to mod. After taking this position I've been keen to carry on the process in the same vain. People tend to behave mors like adults if you treat them as such.

    I can't speak for the other mods but I'm not planning on changing my style, and I sincerely hope cyber doesn't change his. if this means we lose you as a member that would be a shame, we'd have to live with it.

    Effectively you are a cyber Sheriff and beholden to no one(except the narrative).

    And no, you won't be losing any sleep over people leaving for that reason. Because you'll continue to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that your narrative is more important than what people want. You'll see it as a 'necessity.'

    Kevin, 
    You are 100% correct that the internet's anonymity mask 'allows' extrovert negative behavior. It goes hand hand with people not knowing how to function socially. Therefore it's a two part problem. We see it with kids that 'cyber bully' each other, because they A) as you said, can hide and B ) they do not have to deal with the consequences of their action in real time. Even as a simple example, seeing the hurt on someone else's face or their slumped body language.

    However I 100% disagree with the notion you 'have to sacrifice some personal liberties for more security.' Wrong, not in America, that's the entire point of how we are to run society. As Franklin said, Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. (and the subtext there was that in the end, you will get neither as doing so gives power to government and government will take them away by force). And this model is not some sort of jingoistic American only view. A lot of individuals around the world support it and have long before America was a concept or a dream.The problem was they lived under oppressive regimes which would tell people almost literally word for word things such as "Sometimes you have to sacrifice some personal liberties for more security."
    Go figure..

    Maybe what you were trying to say is that sometimes we shouldn't enable and condone extreme individualism over the common good. Which I can support. This generation has taken power to the individual and turned it into 'power to me every five seconds as I tell the world [whom I just assume cares about me and everything I do] what I am going to be doing in one hour, ten minutes, five minutes, right now -- how I am feeling, new pictures of my dog, pictures of my new hair - check my status on Facebook,follow me on Instagram, give me a Like if you enjoyed this video, thanks I love you all my kittens!'  infinite ad nauseam.

    It's about attention - they seek adoration and adulation. As I think we've all agreed here, that is why these individuals in question used an unrelated medium to engage in this correspondence, and furthermore let it bleed into others' discussions with little consideration.

    Though just because they couldn't behave themselves, doesn't mean we should change how we as adults can manage things.

    Doing so is called 'corporate ransom.' It's what you often find in office environments in the modern day, where one individual does something wrong and instead of simply pulling them aside and telling them to knock it off or else, the company has a meeting between H.R. and management to discuss a new policy or procedure that will 'address' the situation. What that means is, they couldn't fire you so they've decided to deploy this new policy which in effect makes everyone have to work harder by continuously watching their Ps and Qs, crossing Ts and dotting Is out of fear that they'll lose a finger or worse. That one person's mistake has now doubly affected everyone. You can hear the collective groan by the staff as they are informed during the next 'mandatory' company update meeting about changes to x y z policies. Some guy in the corner going 'man who screwed up this time?' and the other persons saying 'ugh, not again!! I swear I'll kill them'


    It's ransom because the company holds someone elses mistake against you. And people do not like that as they are facing a destiny that was not of their making. They did not cause this.

    Between you and I, I would much rather someone do something wrong, and if I take issue with it personally, then that's up for me to decide how I want to handle it - as a free man, and a free thinker.

    It's not up to someone else to decide for me how I should feel, think or respond to it. And that's exactly what this age of overt zealous moderation brings about. Someone else playing overlord hiding behind the guise of protecting 'my' interests and well being.

    No, the real reason it's done is because they are working to a mandate given by someone above them. It's about ensuring the 'environment' is a safe space for people so they won't whine and complain to a corporation whom then fears bad publicity and ultimately a loss of share holders - Palmer Luckey incident anyone?

    As always, it's really about money.

    And with that, Zenbane and Atmos are irrelevant and insignificant pawns in these corporatists chess game for power. Let them back in. If they behave like children, they will get treated like such and maybe, they'll learn that they don't like it and change their attitude.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    HoIIywood said:
     
    Effectively you are a cyber Sheriff and beholden to no one(except the narrative).

    And no, you won't be losing any sleep over people leaving for that reason. Because you'll continue to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that your narrative is more important than what people want. You'll see it as a 'necessity.'


    You seem to have made some conclusions about me without knowing me... I guess that's another problem with the internet and forums in general but that's ok, I like you anyway.

    I've never patted myself on the back about anything in life... but I do tend to pat others on the back as encouragement when I see they do good. It generally works.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.592)
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,872 Valuable Player
    edited December 2016
    Atmos deserved to because he was a smelly Vive user.

    Zenbane deserved to because he's a non-Touch man (at the moment)   :D   

    edit: oh damn i've just read they're coming back sometime - I love you both really!
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    Neither should have, most of the stuff was trivial and mildly entertaining.
    Don't get it ? it was all a discussion and never really landed bloody blows. If you can't air your opinions here in all things vr, the rough and the smooth, then where ? Unban them I say and give them a good telling off lol or let us do it !!!!
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    edited December 2016
    Who cares, I have touch now!!!!!1!!!one!!!!
    I think it would have been enough with a simple warning
    i7 6700K @ 4.2 GHz | Corsair 16GB DDR4 PC2300 | GTX 1080 Ti | Asus z170-Pro | Corsair RGB Strafe Keyboard | Logitech G27 | Oculus CV1 + Touch + 4 Sensors | Win 10 64 bit | Acer Predator x34 @ 100Hz
  • kevink808kevink808 Posts: 803
    3Jane
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    HoIIywood said:
     
    Kevin, 
    You are 100% correct that the internet's anonymity mask 'allows' extrovert negative behavior. It goes hand hand with people not knowing how to function socially. Therefore it's a two part problem. We see it with kids that 'cyber bully' each other, because they A) as you said, can hide and B ) they do not have to deal with the consequences of their action in real time. Even as a simple example, seeing the hurt on someone else's face or their slumped body language.

    However I 100% disagree with the notion you 'have to sacrifice some personal liberties for more security.' Wrong, not in America, that's the entire point of how we are to run society. As Franklin said, Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. (and the subtext there was that in the end, you will get neither as doing so gives power to government and government will take them away by force). And this model is not some sort of jingoistic American only view. 

    blah blah blah  /snip
    Here's some valuable advice. Don't be so long-winded on a VR forum - nobody is going to waste their time reading a small novel from someone who has no verifiable credentials.  Please get to the point if you're going to state your opinion.

    Disagree all you want, the public has spoken many times since 9/11 and the majority of the country believes that you must sacrifice some liberty for security.  Like much in life, it's a compromise.
    Rift-S, Quest 128GB, GO 64GB.
  • kevink808kevink808 Posts: 803
    3Jane
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    cybereality, if the forums would allow us to IGNORE certain users' posts, problem solved.  Lots of forums have those.  If you don't want to see someone's posts, you just add them to your ignore list.  Now that's self-policing while maintaining maximum freedoms for all.
    Rift-S, Quest 128GB, GO 64GB.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,385 Volunteer Moderator
    Yes, the argue spam and thread derailment needed to stop.
    That's a not a bad idea although believe it or not it can be used a a tool to agrivate with ignored users increasing their aggression because they quickly realise they're being ignored while others enjoying the sport relay the comments to the people who are doing the ignoring, I've been in forums where that's common... it doesn't always have the effect you think it will.

    What anyone can do is message any mod at any time they see a post that breaks the rules... or @ any of us in the thread to bring our attention to it. I'm only on the forum at random times and don't see much of what gets posted, no doubt the same for the others.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.592)
This discussion has been closed.