Onwarrd proves locomotion is okay! — Oculus
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Onwarrd proves locomotion is okay!

Arock387Arock387 Posts: 724
Trinity
So there is a military sim where you use the analog on the touch to move.   No teleportation necessary.  And yah you feel a little weird at first but it goes away rather quickly especially when bullets start flying and your mind begins worrying about other things.  Other devs need to check this game out and learn a bit from it so we can finally move away form the teleportation stuff. 
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Comments

  • Mr.CreepyMr.Creepy Posts: 792
    Neo
    edited December 2016
    Teleportation is here to stay. There is nothing to learn, people still get sick playing it, and I'm not taking any chances.
  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    edited December 2016
    True, locomotion is the way to go, same goes for Serious Sam.
    i7 6700K @ 4.2 GHz | Corsair 16GB DDR4 PC2300 | GTX 1080 Ti | Asus z170-Pro | Corsair RGB Strafe Keyboard | Logitech G27 | Oculus CV1 + Touch + 4 Sensors | Win 10 64 bit | Acer Predator x34 @ 100Hz
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,988
    3Jane
    edited December 2016

    makes no sense

    Arock387 said:
    So there is a military sim where you use the analog on the touch to move.   No teleportation necessary.  And yah you feel a little weird at first but it goes away rather quickly especially when bullets start flying and your mind begins worrying about other things.  Other devs need to check this game out and learn a bit from it so we can finally move away form the teleportation stuff. 
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?
  • Greenfire32Greenfire32 Posts: 367
    Trinity
    i have to run in place when i move in Onward or I get crazy crazy sick.
  • StreetPreacherStreetPreacher Posts: 224
    Nexus 6
    i have to run in place when i move in Onward or I get crazy crazy sick.
    Just try to pretend that you're riding on a hoverboard, works for me! ;)
  • Arock387Arock387 Posts: 724
    Trinity
    I feel like onwards acceleration is just right where you don't quite feel that though. It's not too fast and it doesn't start too fast either 
  • Arock387Arock387 Posts: 724
    Trinity
    like learning to balance on a bike basically
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    maxpare79 said:
    People get sick because they don't want to work on it...I used to get sick on my DK2, did short sessions here and there, and now, nothing, absolutely nothing makes me sick. If people avoid free locomotion because they think they wil get sick, well they will get sick for the rest of their lives...People have to get use to it. 
    Exactly! .. Everyone who still gets Sick are too lazy or scared to work on adapting. It's not that hard! You just have to have a solid understanding of your orientation. Just conciously think "which way am I facing right now", "which way am I turning right now?". Move your head/body in a way that you would if you were turning in that direction.
  • Arock387Arock387 Posts: 724
    Trinity
    Its an odd feeling at first but it subsides easily.  For the first while what I would do is turn my head up and peak through the nose gap for orientation checks and after a while the only reason why I would peak is because all of a sudden tracking sucked and it was because somehow I turned around haha.. cant wait for that third sensor
  • harryinthesoupharryinthesoup Posts: 97
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited December 2016
    Hate Teleports unless its a teleport to a remote location. I am reaching the point where I am not going buy VR games that do not have a "natural locomotion" option. I also cannot stand the FP/VR  games where you move as if on a sledge/slide/wheels, I like the simularted " natural bounce" as you walk or have to step/jump over obstructions
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,776 Valuable Player
    It makes me sick.  If I move forward and turn my head to look down an alley while still moving forward it makes me feel sick.  I feel like I'm swaying forward and could fall on my face in this game.  I've tried running in place while I move and that just makes it worse for me.  I might get used to it if I put the time into it, but I don't want to because I hate feeling sick.  That sickness stays with me for several hours too.  I guess there's no planetside sized battles with 500 vs 500 people, it's more like 2 v 2.  I'll probably try to get used to it though, it was only $25 and I refuse to return games unless I actually don't like the content.  I really like the content and idea behind it so I support the dev even if his game makes me sick because I can't handle the locomotion.
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    edited December 2016
    falken76 said:
    It makes me sick.  If I move forward and turn my head to look down an alley while still moving forward it makes me feel sick.  I feel like I'm swaying forward and could fall on my face in this game.  I've tried running in place while I move and that just makes it worse for me.  I might get used to it if I put the time into it, but I don't want to because I hate feeling sick.  That sickness stays with me for several hours too.  I guess there's no planetside sized battles with 500 vs 500 people, it's more like 2 v 2.  I'll probably try to get used to it though, it was only $25 and I refuse to return games unless I actually don't like the content.  I really like the content and idea behind it so I support the dev even if his game makes me sick because I can't handle the locomotion.
    Did you try closing your eyes and taking deep breathes? Do it as soon as you feel any slight sickness - every single time. Thats what worked for me when I first started in VR. Granted Onward is an online game that you can't pause while doing this .. u just have to hope no one shoots you, but it's better to overcome VR sickness as quick as possible.
  • Greyhawk101Greyhawk101 Posts: 49
    Brain Burst
    My big let down when I got my Rift earlier in the week was the lack of free roaming games. The teleport does the exact opposite of what the rift is supposed to do - takes you out of the immersion using an immersion breaking mechanic - Fallout 4 VR will be using teleport as well (assuming it eventually comes out on Rift). Makes the game completely pointless as Fallout 4 is about exploration.

     
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,954 Valuable Player
    I think the implementation is key. I also suffered sickness in games using the xbox controller thumbstick but playing doom bfg with the touch integration has been pretty good so far. A few times I have got a little hot and clammy but overall I am amazed how long I can play it for. I had given up hope after playing Ethan carter but now agree locomotion is definitely viable as doom bfg is incredible.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
    3Jane
    Yes, I find the lack of high end free roaming gaming games disappointing too...

    But I'd like to think traditional movement (in both game mechanics and gameplay design) will take off after the HTC Vive goes wireless, and that Oculus VR will probably follow suit (in both hardware and software) so the Rift doesn't get left behind.

    Because I believe natural body rotation (on a swivel chair or standing up) provides the best combination of the most immersion and least VR motion sickness.

    So 2016 was the year when the Rift moved from the 2D gamepad to 6D hand controllers, and hopefully 2017 will be the year it moves from teleportation to free roaming.
  • tranceology3tranceology3 Posts: 804
    3Jane
    maxpare79 said:
    People get sick because they don't want to work on it...I used to get sick on my DK2, did short sessions here and there, and now, nothing, absolutely nothing makes me sick. If people avoid free locomotion because they think they wil get sick, well they will get sick for the rest of their lives...People have to get use to it. 
    So all the people that get car sick, plane sick, sea sick need to just get used to it? While I do understand that some people can adapt to simulation sickness, I think there are a lot of people that will never adapt and will always get sick - it's just the way they are. 
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,988
    3Jane
    i think its more the case that people are concerned that devs will shy away from making games that are based around artificial movement, but are barking up the wrong tree at the people who are getting sick
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?
  • Mr.CreepyMr.Creepy Posts: 792
    Neo
    You can not just expect people to try to get through it, I personally have no interest in feeling sick just to avoid teleportation. It's just not worth that much to me. I however support adding options for both movement methods.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,591 Valuable Player
    maxpare79 said:
    People get sick because they don't want to work on it...I used to get sick on my DK2, did short sessions here and there, and now, nothing, absolutely nothing makes me sick. If people avoid free locomotion because they think they wil get sick, well they will get sick for the rest of their lives...People have to get use to it. 
    This ^^^

    People won't get their VR legs if developers continue to wrap players in cotton wool. This is precisely why my game is going to have stick locomotion and smooth turning as the default controls. I'm going to have comfort turning available as an option for people that may struggle with smooth turning but that's it. I'm not going to have a teleportation mechanic anywhere near the game.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • BlastaMastaBlastaMasta Posts: 182
    Art3mis
    I think it's true what everybody says, that you can accustom to it. My case is not severe but I can't ride amusement rides for example, I couldn't play Dreadhals longer than 5min same with Ethan Carter but I tried and every time I felt a bit dizzy or started sweating I would take the rift off (before you get sick), do something in real, have a tea etc. and after 15min back to rift, taking baby steps.

     I can play Onward now no problem, snap rotation is great and I can even run in a straight line and look left and right (something that if I did right when I got rift would immediately make me fill a bucket with vomit). Games with cockpits have even less impact, anyone hoping upcoming Mechwarrior 5 will support VR?
  • flexy123flexy123 Posts: 791
    3Jane
    edited December 2016
    Biggest offenders for me: SDK "World Demo" (because this was the first experience which allowed me to move freely with controllers), makes me SICK just thinking about the world demo now, Doom 3 BFG and amazingly also Dreadhalls. Which is weird because I had Dreadhalls also on snap turn. So there must be something to it which adds to VR sickness. Maybe the amount of turns you need to make in a short time to get around.

    VR (Motion) sickness is *real*, and game/VR devs know it and it's a real concern. So saying "get over it" is silly.

    By the way no problem with roller coasters, sims, whatever....it's really the turns, they're just awful
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    People are scared of bad press. Pussies!
    This is my forum signature.
    There are many others like it, but this is mine.
  • OpticKingOpticKing Posts: 1,185
    Wintermute
    flexy123 said:
    Biggest offenders for me: SDK "World Demo" (because this was the first experience which allowed me to move freely with controllers), makes me SICK just thinking about the world demo now, Doom 3 BFG and amazingly also Dreadhalls. Which is weird because I had Dreadhalls also on snap turn. So there must be something to it which adds to VR sickness. Maybe the amount of turns you need to make in a short time to get around.

    VR (Motion) sickness is *real*, and game/VR devs know it and it's a real concern. So saying "get over it" is silly.

    By the way no problem with roller coasters, sims, whatever....it's really the turns, they're just awful
    Out of curiosity, did you play theses standing and turning your actual body to turn? If not, I say give at least dreadhalls/doom3 another try while doing this. (if it's a pain to stand and turn, a desk swivel chair works great)
  • BlastaMastaBlastaMasta Posts: 182
    Art3mis
    edited December 2016
    Does it work with Doom 3 BFG from steam? It's on sale now, I would really love to play a real game in VR.

    elboffor said:
    People are scared of bad press. Pussies!


    Think the bad press worked OK for Onward, better than being with the same bucket as rest of demos.
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    Dude, samsons mod let's you use smooth snap or actual turn.
    Also I'm gonna share my custom exe tomorrow so you'LL be able to launch it from oculus home.

    I would have uploaded it earlier but the Mrs is demanding attention :(
    This is my forum signature.
    There are many others like it, but this is mine.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,776 Valuable Player
    elboffor said:
    People are scared of bad press. Pussies!
    Bad press would kill sales.  It would suck to waste all your time in development if only a small fraction of people could handle your game, the possible waste of time and resources is why everyone goes with Teleport.  I don't really like Teleport at all, but Free motion makes me seriously sick.  I wouldn't willingly buy a game that makes me sick and just hope to get used to it.  How many other people are like that?  What percentage of the user base is it?  Would you be willing to bank your money on that guess?
  • harryinthesoupharryinthesoup Posts: 97
    Hiro Protagonist
    Its more than just games, if I want to walk through a beautiful virtual landscape I dont want to have to teleport around it, I'll want it to be as "real" as possible. IMHO have teleports by all means but have natural locomotion also as an option.
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    Does it work with Doom 3 BFG from steam? It's on sale now, I would really love to play a real game in VR.


    Yes it does. I bought that version to get it working as well and it works perfectly.
  • KillCardKillCard Posts: 1,078
    Wintermute
    edited December 2016
    falken76 said:
    elboffor said:
    People are scared of bad press. Pussies!
    Bad press would kill sales.  It would suck to waste all your time in development if only a small fraction of people could handle your game, the possible waste of time and resources is why everyone goes with Teleport.  I don't really like Teleport at all, but Free motion makes me seriously sick.  I wouldn't willingly buy a game that makes me sick and just hope to get used to it.  How many other people are like that?  What percentage of the user base is it?  Would you be willing to bank your money on that guess?
    I'm calling Bullshit on this .. and everything about Motion Sickness in VR.

    Take a look at Onward: 90% positive reviews. If everyone was as affected by VR Sickness like they want us to believe, this game should have tanked. Instead it's regarded by many as THE best VR game, and it doesnt even have a teleport option.

    Look at this poll taken earlier this year: https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/41839/for-first-person-shooters-walking-simulations-in-vr-which-do-you-prefer-use-most/p1

    Of the people of this forum: over 70% prefer Free movement with Smooth Turning.
    (Game pad + smooth turn or Other - which really meant mouse/keyboard smooth turn if you read the comments)

    An incredibly low 7% prefer teleport. A sample size of only 52 votes, but for forum interaction thats a decent size.

    I propose: People who are at best casual gamers who don't want to invest more than an hour each day into gaming are the ones who are most susceptible to motion sickness. They don't have the time or the will power to "try" and get better at VR. Most of the people who play games are hardcore gamers who want to push themselves to be the best at it or get so immersed in the game they can forget about their shitty lives, these people have the time and the will power to make VR work for them and Onward is evidence that this is the REAL target audience for VR.

    The only reason that VR Sickness got such huge attention is because before release VR was only accessible at gaming conventions, and most of the people reporting on it were Journalist's - casual gamers at best. They don't have a full day to invest into getting good at VR, they have places to be, things to report on, other games to play so they can write reviews. So we got a "biased" stance on VR Sickness as a result, and I don't believe this represents the true core gamer audience at all.
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