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Finally had enough of all my tracking issues....?

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    The problem with any poll is that when you are asking people to vote between "complaining" vs "happy" you will get a ton of votes for the complaint category. In fact, most people come to the Internet just to complain. Happy folks don't have much reason to create forum accounts. Those who are not having problems are happy, so they are home using their Rift. Those with problems... go online to complain.

    How about we look at the number of people who complained in that poll and compare it to the total number of people on Steam with a registered Oculus Rift? Suddenly the number of people with problems drops to a super tiny number (like 1%).
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  • Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731 Poster of the Week
    Sure never mind the anecdotal written comments of the majority of members who have been here since before the updates. It's a general discussion page not a support page. Hey what what happened to you while I was away Zen? You used to be a man of the people, now you're a corporate denier with a Master's hat on. Sure nothing really wrong, just a few upstarts making something over nothing. Alternative facts. Fake news. Yada yada. Sad.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    Sure never mind the anecdotal written comments of the majority of members who have been here since before the updates. It's a general discussion page not a support page. Hey what what happened to you while I was away Zen? You used to be a man of the people, now you're a corporate denier with a Master's hat on. Sure nothing really wrong, just a few upstarts making something over nothing. Alternative facts. Fake news. Yada yada. Sad.
    Corporate denier with a Master's hat? Well I am not denying that there is a problem, I am simply making an argument that it is likely mathematically incorrect to state that the problems reported represent more than 50% of the total user base. So you read that argument and responded to me, insultingly, as though I am claiming the problems are at 0%.

    So does that mean you are a English Language denier with a dunce cap? Maybe instead of resorting to insults you actually comprehend what is being said.
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  • Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731 Poster of the Week
    well by your definition no poll ever conducted is worth a rats arse then as nobody has ever asked or got an answer from 100% of user base to find a true answer. I quoted a poll of users who are in 1 place who gave an answer. 

    That you pick me up for being insulting for making a comment, as someone who got warned and turfed out of here for bad attitude is rich indeed. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    well by your definition no poll ever conducted is worth a rats arse then as nobody has ever asked or got an answer from 100% of user base to find a true answer.
    If someone is making an argument that "over 50%" of the total user base is having the same problems... then a poll where close to the total sum of the userbase should probably be taken in to account. There are over 200,000 people who own a Rift. How many people responded to your poll?

    And are you denying that the Internet (social media, forums) are plagued moreso by complainers than the happy-go-lucky type?

    That you pick me up for being insulting for making a comment, as someone who got warned and turfed out of here for bad attitude is rich indeed. 
    So because I was scolded for negativity you believe that gives you free reign to use me as target practice? hah, if you're up for the task then let's see how you fare.

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  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 121
    Art3mis
     vs not. I don't think you do either.
    There was a poll (which I did mention in my original reply) in here asking what people's status was since update. It pointed to a majority having issues. That was my clue for what it's worth. A little more credible than saying there's no lynch mob so it must be under 10% don't you think?
    Have you got a link to that poll (you only mention it, don't link to it or anything). It strikes me that such a poll would likely include a massive amount of bias (e.g. if the question is "do you suffer tracking issues" guess who is going to reply in the main), so it seems it could well be an extremely dodgy source for the sort of statistic you are quoting.
    |t's in this discussion forum, feel free to look. The question was neutral along the lines of what is your current status since the update.
    This one?  With 39 responses?  As I said - dodgy to use it to assert that the majority are having problems.  You're extrapolating the experiences of 24 (self-selecting) people to thousands.
  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 121
    Art3mis
    edited February 2017
    Have you got a link to that poll (you only mention it, don't link to it or anything). It strikes me that such a poll would likely include a massive amount of bias (e.g. if the question is "do you suffer tracking issues" guess who is going to reply in the main), so it seems it could well be an extremely dodgy source for the sort of statistic you are quoting.
    |t's in this discussion forum, feel free to look. The question was neutral along the lines of what is your current status since the update.
    This one?  I'm afraid that only has 39 responses, so can't really support your statements at all regarding the overall user base.  
  • Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731 Poster of the Week
    At no point ever did I say 50% of the user base, I specifically mentioned "a poll, IN HERE" (Why do you have to twist things or ignore what people are saying to fit your own argument.)

    Scolded for negativity. Yeah that's how it went :) You've probably made more insults and put downs in here than the rest of the group combined. Whatever, I'm done with this debate with you. Keep smiling. 
  • digitalkibbledigitalkibble Posts: 17
    NerveGear
    edited February 2017
    (TLDR : USB is iffy and less than ideal for positional tracking with multiple cameras when setup for room scale but we are stuck with it.)

    The State of Tracking Woes : IMO-Edition

    This may be obvious to some if not most here, but ultimately I believe that within the wide variety of tracking reports; from perfect to utterly dismal - there is reasonable validity at both ends of the spectrum.  

    Here's why:

    The Oculus Rift, like any PC-based device, is already having to deal with the wide variety of user-based hardware builds out there and all the subsequent driver/firmware/software combinations that come along with that.  It's a tough job to be sure; minimizing issues and maximizing compatibility across such a wide spectrum of users.  Overall product consistency is tethered to the result of a cascade of potential impactors, however, to me the all-important unifying thread is quite literally the USB-based camera device and therein lies the rub.

    I think it's clear that the initial gameplan of Oculus was to be a seated, single-camera desk-based VR experience (pre-room scale).  When you view it this way, the USB based solution isn't as egregious because you aren't being forced to rely on more than 2 USB ports for your tracking setup.  Because of this, comparatively, it's a breeze to setup when compared to the Vive and its Lighthouse tracking system.  This makes sense and is a win.  

    That said, once you tack on room scale and motion controllers (Oculus Touch), you are stepping into a whole new ball-game and fundamentally changing the nature and complexity of the tracking requirements by an order of magnitude.  This is where the USB-based camera tracking solution begins to show itself as lacking and less than ideal when compared to Vive's Lighthouse setup.

    USB operational factors like PCIE lanes, total number/type of peripheral devices sharing hub controllers, power, the number of Constellation cameras connected, bandwidth throughput/signal degradation over X-distance and active/passive cable extension solutions all begin to contribute to the chances of having problems.

    Add to that camera positioning and angling, relative inter-camera distance and view frustum overlap, physical occlusion factors based on unique room sizes and layouts; plus making sure that once calibrated, the cameras themselves don't get jilted or moved from their positions and with all this, the potential user error setting up any of that and you start to arrive at the wide array of results people are seeing.  It's a headache to be sure.

    Ultimately and often (for room scale), you may end up having to buy 3rd party hardware additions (PCIE USB Cards/extension cables) to augment the USB-based system and mitigate its shortcomings.  It's a solution, but it's costly.  This is why Oculus recommends 3 cameras over 4 (for room scale) and gives you a 2.0 USB cable extension to limit bandwidth saturation with the 3rd camera.  It's not that you can't go all USB 3.0, while having 4 cameras and achieve success, it's just that the system itself is bandwidth hungry and a lot can potentially go wrong.
     
    Either way, CV1 is locked in with the camera system - so the best we can hope for is software optimizations and the spreading of good setup best practices.  Both of which we are recieving. :wink: 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    Doesn't "majority" mean more than 50% ??
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  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 121
    Art3mis
    edited February 2017
    At no point ever did I say 50% of the user base, I specifically mentioned "a poll, IN HERE" (Why do you have to twist things or ignore what people are saying to fit your own argument.)

    jayhawk said:
    Panoramus said:How much is 'quite a few' compared to all users? I would assume myself most aren't having issues. Just a guess but I would think as soon as you get over ~10% there will be an uproar and lynch mobs start forming.
    So you think that currently more than 90% of users are not having problems? Wow!!! Have you looked at any polls? I think one in here would put it close to 10% NOT having issues.

    You're right. You suggested it was 90% having problems not 50%.  From a poll of 39, with 24 responding they were having problems.....
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    @Zenbane
    Just admit the latest patch fucked all kinds of shit up.
    We all kniw your secretly palmer luckey and don't ever like to admit that oculus did something wrong. BUT THEY DID.
    So be nice and accept this one pls
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  • Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731 Poster of the Week
    At no point ever did I say 50% of the user base, I specifically mentioned "a poll, IN HERE" (Why do you have to twist things or ignore what people are saying to fit your own argument.)

    jayhawk said:
    Panoramus said:How much is 'quite a few' compared to all users? I would assume myself most aren't having issues. Just a guess but I would think as soon as you get over ~10% there will be an uproar and lynch mobs start forming.
    So you think that currently more than 90% of users are not having problems? Wow!!! Have you looked at any polls? I think one in here would put it close to 10% NOT having issues.

    You're right. You suggested it was 90% having problems not 50%.  From a poll of 39, with 24 responding they were having problems.....
    Was meant to say closer rather than close to 90%, which of course I believe it is rather than the less than the 10% originally claimed. Why is everyone so tetchy and defensive anyway, as elboffor said they've admitted there was a screw up and it wouldn't make sense that a small minority were suffering issues of one kind or another, our VR hardware is the same and the firmware is the same.
  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 808
    3Jane
    jayhawk said:
    jayhawk said:
    Panoramus said:How much is 'quite a few' compared to all users? I would assume myself most aren't having issues. Just a guess but I would think as soon as you get over ~10% there will be an uproar and lynch mobs start forming.
    So you think that currently more than 90% of users are not having problems? Wow!!! Have you looked at any polls? I think one in here would put it close to 10% NOT having issues.

    I haven't got a clue how many are having issues vs not. I don't think you do either.
    There was a poll (which I did mention in my original reply) in here asking what people's status was since update. It pointed to a majority having issues. That was my clue for what it's worth. A little more credible than saying there's no lynch mob so it must be under 10% don't you think?
    A poll would be more credible than me. You're right. Feel better?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    @elboffor re-read the thread to see the difference between denying a problem and stating that 90% of people have the problem.

    Since several folks seem to have trouble understanding, let me try to make my position more clear,

    I believe the problem impacts less than 50% of the total Rift userbase, yet also more than 0%.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    I actually believe the issues are 90% if not more.
    I believe your experience is the exception to the rule.

    My friend in RL who git his VR a couple if weeks ago was telling me how he thinks people are jumping the shark and shouting needlessly. He claims its all people having shit set ups and his is perfect (3 sensors spread over 2 pci cards).

    I had to try this. It turns out his tracking is far from perfect, it aint bad, but it aint perfect or as good as mine was prior to the 1.11 patch. He just thought thats the way it is.

    So to reiterate, I do believe the figures claimed here.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    elboffor said:
    I actually believe the issues are 90% if not more.
    I believe your experience is the exception to the rule.
    Have you seen the Oculus Rift group on Facebook? Lots of people posting about their happy experiences with the Rift on a daily basis, post-patch.

    So my experience is clearly shared by others, and hardly seems an exception.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    I'm in the same group zen.
    Suprised you never saw my master race image i posted there.
    I do think the bulk of those users are noobs that wouldn't know the difference between good and shit tracking if it smacked them in the face.
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  • ColinBColinB Posts: 236
    Nexus 6
    Zenbane said:
    ^^
    You spelled "Thomas" wrong.


    Why don't you, zenbane, just simply go away for a long holiday.
    Take all your nastiness and sarcasm with you and leave these Forums in peace.
    Off you go. Take a good long look at yourself. It won't be nice but needs doing.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    Then we must being looking at different stuff. I see people talking about extension cables, a handful of disconnect problems, and a bunch of talk about video games. Do I really need to post screenshots of the Facebook group to prove the point? lol

    There are some very good troubleshooting tips on there by experience Oculus owners. I'm not sure why you think they are noobs. In fact, I think it would make more sense that only noobs are having problems post-patch. Afterall, it's not about the person but the actual PC that makes a difference between having problems and being problem-free. My Asus rig has been perfect since last year. Other folks clearly have a machine that is less than perfect. Wouldn't that make the problems their own noob fault?

    Of course, I wouldn't really push that argument forward. I'm just saying... it doesn't make sense to call people who are enjoying their Rift "noobs." If someone is playing the Climb successfully (like a post I just saw on the Rift group), you are saying that they are too dumb to notice that they aren't really playing it?
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    Key words in my initial post mate was "i believe"
    I think I've made it abundantly clear throughout my entire internet life including my time on this forum that - I dont know shit about shit!

    Hmm
    If (post oculusForum !== post oculusForum.user(zenbane))
    {OpinionSearch(oculusForum.user(zenbane))}

    Public void OpinionSearch(string x)
    // this functukn checls the forum for a matching virw previously, failing that will resort to facebook. I cba to write it but you get my point im sure.

    You surely must agree tho mate, the more technically inclined are bound to use forums and redit over facebook.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    Nice object code, buddy! lol

    I'm not sure I would agree that I think you don't know shit about shit. This particular exchange began because you informed me that I should accept that there is a problem. My suggestion to you is to realize I acknowledge the problem, but simply differentiate between a majority.

    The debate could have stopped there instead of either of us trying to prove a majority.

    I can't help but feel that some people in this thread really need to believe that the only way the tracking issue will be fixed is if, and only if, nearly everyone is having the problem.

    It's okay to be in the minority and still have your problems treated as a top priority. Oculus has already publicly acknowledged the issue and a patch in the works. Not sure why a majority sentiment needs to be proven.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    I wasn't suggesting that you thought i didnt know shit about shit.
     I was simply stating that I know full well that I'm an opinionated arsehole who doesnt know as much as I should considering how much I push my opinion on others. 

    But I know my rig is sweet, the only other 3 people i know with rifts all have tracking troubles also (even though only 1 of em would admit to it until i went to their homes and slapped em down on their own turf lol) amd they are just as technically inclined as I.

    So based on my own experience ( and a survey i did including myself),
    50% of users have problems and admit it.
    50% of users either have issues and don't realise it or are lying to save face.

    Now, based on how much of a fanboy you are (and please dont say your not a fan boy, i know i am and I wear that badge with pride) you must understand my trepidation on taking your point on face value.
    However, i hope you're right. I just dont believe it to be so :/
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    You are free to believe that me being a fan of my Oculus Rift and VR Ready machine blind me to the imaginary majority that you believe exists. That is why I referenced the Oculus Facebook group, since anyone with a pair of eyes can see a large number of people enjoying the same experience as myself.

    However you choose to believe that they are all lying in what appears to be a willful blindness, possibly caused by the fact that you are a fanboy of your own problems. 

    I have referenced real numbers from Steam registered users, and real people participating in a group. You are countering with baseless conjecture.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    Just to be clear, I  (and most likely everyone else with issues) think your a shit based purely on jealousy on you having a good experience.
    I had it once, and now its gone :(
    No fault of my own, hence the strong "fuck you oculus for breaking it for everyone" opinion.
    Ps.
    If i dont win the dnb tournament then im still blaming the 1.11 patch 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    Well I was about to ask why you are so quick to call 16,000+ people on a Facebook Group liars yet instantly believe strangers on a poll/survey. But jealousy is an acceptable answer lol

    Personally, I cant see why the tracking issue hasnt been narrowed down to a USB driver, controller, or motherboard. 
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    edited February 2017
    I use the 4 port inateck cards, as does 1 if my friends. Latest fresco drivers as recommended.
    Mobo dont make a difference due to that.
    So it is software related.

    Also my tracking was amazeballs prior to this.

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  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane

    I see Zen is back in fine form again lol


    Anyone taking bets on how long till his next forum ban ;)

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,422 Valuable Player
    lol - I love how any argument is ban worthy
     :| 
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  • ZandilZandil Posts: 975
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:
    lol - I love how any argument is ban worthy
     :| 

    Hey I'm just here to make some money ;)
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