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Is this why so little has been happening with the Oculus user experience?

Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731
3Jane
Here's an article where Road To VR talk to Nate Mitchell about the lack of Rooms and Parties on Oculus. Apparently they've been working on an all encompassing.....METAVERSE! 

https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-nate-mitchell-on-the-fate-of-rooms-and-parties-on-rift/

And yeah metaverse is a nebulous term that can describe pretty much anything in VR, so who knows what the hell he's talking about. He said we can 'trust him' though, so that's nice! I'll just sit here scratching my clinkers, rocking back and forth in my chair for who knows how many more months, just smiling...and trusting :)
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Comments

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    It was a interesting build-up for Connect interview - though did you notice that Ben (RTVR) gave Nate (OVR) quiet a hard ride, with some cutting comments.

    Nate is good people from my dealings with him, and has been cleaning up a lot of the mess that was left him by the departing ego's of previous execs; so I would be prepared to cut him more than anyone some slack. But it does put an incredible pressure on what is revealed at OC4 - especially that it will be around the same time as the big reveal from SteamDev conference, the same month.

    I think for me the interview was more telling on what it did not say than what Nate's Facebook minders allowed him to talk about. It will be really hard to get any attention at OC4 if the rest of the VR community is losing their combined sh*t when 'Left4Dead VR'(*) is revealed!

    Note(*) = Educated Speculation
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  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Metaverse, huh?  With how long these features have taken to get here, I guess they could have been building an entire digital world. :tongue:   I just hope we get something functional by the end of the year.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    Metaverse prolly means targeted ingame adds
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  • Sax-a-boomSax-a-boom Posts: 731
    3Jane
    I don't know if Nate was biting his tongue a bit but the messages weren't very clear. One minute he's talking about news about moving the pc platform forward coming later in the year (sounds OC4ish), next it's really great things for the pc community 'very very soon'. Are these the same things? Is this the same time frame?

    I was also a bit confused by this "… we have a vision for the Oculus platform really being the epicenter for the VR community". Not the Rift community, the VR community. Are they planning a more open platform where all with eyeballs and money to spend will be welcome into the Oasis?


  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,153 Valuable Player
    edited July 2017
    Not the Rift community, the VR community. Are they planning a more open platform where all with eyeballs and money to spend will be welcome into the Oasis?


    I really hope so. I dont claim to know who is at fault for not supporting the vive officially and relying on hacks, but the simple fact is, that even as a rift user, given the choice i tend to go for steam at the monent even tho i prefer the oculus home experience by far......

    but i want to make sure if i change hmd manufacturers next gen i am not locked out of my games. for now Steam seems the safest bet. if that changes, where i spend my money will change too.

    PS another feature i would like would be the option to add out of home games to my home library, just like in steam you can add a non steam game to your library.

    if oculus are serious about competing with steam as a store front  they need to match, ideally beat, the features their competitors offer imo.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Storm_Cloud said:
    ...
    I was also a bit confused by this "… we have a vision for the Oculus platform really being the epicenter for the VR community". Not the Rift community, the VR community. Are they planning a more open platform where all with eyeballs and money to spend will be welcome into the Oasis?
    I agree that this came across as a little concerning.
      
    I think the PC/Rift/VR Community has guessed that they are an endangered species in OVR's mind at the moment - with the investment in mobileVR, and the Standalone, and the recent "...no major development [for Rift] for the time being(*)" statement, there is a danger they will become second class citizens.

    Now with the statement of "...epicenter for the VR community", we can see that the boundaries constructed by the previous management are hoping to be broken down, though it feels like more of a focus on mobileVR (ala Daydream) than an open platform. Social media will be key in this brand new future, again the question will be how much of it will the current Rift community be able to engage with - as we see with the omission from enjoying their own 'Rooms' style experience?

    Note - (*)=paraphrased
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,423 Volunteer Moderator
    After this long, they had better be working on something more impressive than Rooms. A few dull static environments where we can sit around and watch YouTube videos is not going to cut it at this point. Bring on the Metaverse!
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  • JustJohnVRJustJohnVR Posts: 51
    Hiro Protagonist
    I was glad to hear "soon" in relation to Parties (unless it's a Blizzard "Soon"), but disappointed we aren't likely to get anything like Rooms for a good while.  Hoping for a change in priorities or at least some clearer announcements on this come OC4.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Still waiting for the latest news on Sansar:


  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    I don't know if Nate was biting his tongue a bit but the messages weren't very clear. One minute he's talking about news about moving the pc platform forward coming later in the year (sounds OC4ish), next it's really great things for the pc community 'very very soon'. Are these the same things? Is this the same time frame?

    I was also a bit confused by this "… we have a vision for the Oculus platform really being the epicenter for the VR community". Not the Rift community, the VR community. Are they planning a more open platform where all with eyeballs and money to spend will be welcome into the Oasis?



    I just hope they don't abandon the PC users for the HUGE mobile market.  If they do, I'm done with this VR shit, I hate mobile devices, I only use them for phone and text, with the occassional reading of an email, everything is to tie me over until I get back to an actual production machine like a desktop, I can't write reports or anything like that on a damn phone. I can't use solidworks on them, they're toys.  Without a modern day GPU pushing VR, it's all baby toys.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    ....
    I just hope they don't abandon the PC users for the HUGE mobile market.  If they do, I'm done with this VR shit, I hate mobile devices,
    ....
    It sadly looks that this may inevitably be the case now with the the core FB focus of the reshuffled management.

    When it was just Samsung and Oculus Texas (Carmack) focused on mobileVR through the GearVR - then it looked to be an additional arm to the core PC business. But when OVR split the corporation between mobileVR, standalone and PC, it seems inevitable that one will have to be held back (as too the statement that they would not invest in new tech for CV1 for the foreseeable future.").

    The failure of the market assurances by the previous management to materialise, I am sure the PC side of the FB acquisition of OVR, seems less palatable (in the short term) especially the issues of dealing with the PC VR users, and some of their... "quirks" and feeling of entitlement.

    With more news on Standalone - the focus will inevitably move towards a "less-than-CV1" performance. It will be difficult to get this across to the mainstream media if this new platform is being constantly compared with their other product .It will take a very strong PR team to achieve this, and the question has to be, does OVR have that in place for OC4? And do they have enough team members in place (and the interest) to equally support all three strands?
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    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    falken76 said:
    ....
    I just hope they don't abandon the PC users for the HUGE mobile market.  If they do, I'm done with this VR shit, I hate mobile devices,
    ....
    It sadly looks that this may inevitably be the case now with the the core FB focus of the reshuffled management.

    When it was just Samsung and Oculus Texas (Carmack) focused on mobileVR through the GearVR - then it looked to be an additional arm to the core PC business. But when OVR split the corporation between mobileVR, standalone and PC, it seems inevitable that one will have to be held back (as too the statement that they would not invest in new tech for CV1 for the foreseeable future.").

    The failure of the market assurances by the previous management to materialise, I am sure the PC side of the FB acquisition of OVR, seems less palatable (in the short term) especially the issues of dealing with the PC VR users, and some of their... "quirks" and feeling of entitlement.

    With more news on Standalone - the focus will inevitably move towards a "less-than-CV1" performance. It will be difficult to get this across to the mainstream media if this new platform is being constantly compared with their other product .It will take a very strong PR team to achieve this, and the question has to be, does OVR have that in place for OC4? And do they have enough team members in place (and the interest) to equally support all three strands?

    I'll just abandon it if it leaves PC.  Hopefully I can find some sap to buy the rift if it comes to that.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Hope you don't have to dude.
    Think they would catch too much heat from the community if they dropped it all together - they will keep stringing on the PC VR community with occasional breadcrumbs... like Party Room+?
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    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • CalmfixupCalmfixup Posts: 291
    Nexus 6
    edited July 2017
    I can't help but hope that you're wrong here. Wasn't that the entire reason that they re-shuffled internally? So that they could better divide into dedicated teams so as not to impede either?

    It just seems unlikely to me that with the enormous amount of resources they've devoted to us (and are continuing to) that we'd be hung out to dry. 

    I think that's part of the implication of a metaverse - us and the folks on mobile/standalone will all be part of the same environment or platform and be able to communicate and party more easily.

    Guess we'll just have to cross our fingers and hope for the best at OC4 - though I definitely agree with @falken76
    that if they abandon PCVR then I'm moving a different direction next iteration. :(


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  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    Hope you don't have to dude.
    Think they would catch too much heat from the community if they dropped it all together - they will keep stringing on the PC VR community with occasional breadcrumbs... like Party Room+?

    I'm not too worried about it actually.  They have projects like this:

    https://www.vrandfun.com/these-hand-tracking-gloves-by-oculus-may-compete-against-valves-knuckles-controllers/

    Even though it needs too many cameras to be practical right now, they're still working on things that look like they'd work with the rift.

  • CalmfixupCalmfixup Posts: 291
    Nexus 6
    falken76 said:
    kevinw729 said:
    Hope you don't have to dude.
    Think they would catch too much heat from the community if they dropped it all together - they will keep stringing on the PC VR community with occasional breadcrumbs... like Party Room+?

    I'm not too worried about it actually.  They have projects like this:

    https://www.vrandfun.com/these-hand-tracking-gloves-by-oculus-may-compete-against-valves-knuckles-controllers/

    Even though it needs too many cameras to be practical right now, they're still working on things that look like they'd work with the rift.

    Right? 

    I think they're going to split their market into three categories: PCVR (high end), Standalone (mid range) and Mobile (low end).

    That way they capture as much of the market as possible, and really try to dominate.

    Is that the best strategy or will it be too much to bare? Time will tell.


    "Shut up, Wesley!" - Captain Jean-Luc Picard

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Calmfixup said:
    I can't help but hope that you're wrong here. Wasn't that the entire reason that they re-shuffled internally? So that they could better divide into dedicated teams so as not to impede either?
    ...
    I totally agree, and hope that my speculation on information gleamed from what I am seeing, is proven wrong. But to recently see the UK head of PC OVR dev walking away to a new job tells me that even with the restructuring they can not stop the internal fragmentation.

    I see the point of streamlining, and also clearing out some of the failed initiatives - but in that stripping process some realities have kicked in regarding the feasibility to achieve the previous claims of supporting all aspects. A factor revealed when we saw the shuttering of Oculus Studio in mid flow.
    falken76 said:
    ...
    I'm not too worried about it actually. 
    ...
    Even though it needs too many cameras to be practical right now, they're still working on things that look like they'd work with the rift.

    I can see both sides of this, but agree if they are investing in new hardware projects then PC VR has a hope (unless this is a glory project in competition with HTC)? But, trying to manage the PC VR community by confirming no new CV1 updates or features like wireless for the foreseeable future - well that does sound a little bit like neglect.

    The issue is that the OVR internal team has been restructured, but also at the same time a large number of the PC team have departed of their own volition - and surprisingly (or maybe not) have joined Microsoft! The number of previous OVR faces seen on the Redmond campus is very telling.

    I think beyond the troubled business plan, the poorly executed manufacturer, the great design study, questionable marketing, and the problematic roll-out / CS - the one major legacy from the departed execs has been their appalling people-management skills (after paying so much to buy their operations). Reflected now in a exodus of key staff that had once been focused on PC matters!

    But I am not here to just see doom and gloom - I hope that the new brooms can restructure the operation for the three prong attack that now lies ahead!
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    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    Facebook (oculus) have been prioritising mobile VR ever since rift took a back seat to Gear VR (that was one of my other.. other reasons for going Vive originally as I was very annoyed by their silence on PC vs Mobile inc front page ads and GearVR hype esp as it flew in the face of their previous stance on not poisoning the VR well with sub-optimal VR such as no tracked controllers, no positional tracking and high frame rates)

    How I see rift at the moment (at 400/500 bones) is only take it for what it is, not for what it might be in the future (with no guarantee they won't dump PCVR and move to standalone). For me I'm thankful we have VR of the quality of the full rift package at this price, finally, after 20+ years of waiting/hoping for something. For this price it's not the end of the world if Facebook abandon PC VR.

    Obviously I'd prefer they didn't, especially after seeing the quality of their stuff (vs my ex Vive) and to provide quality competition to the other VR makers at least.

    If they do abandon PC VR then we'll have others to go to, though if they don't have super deep pockets it may not push (high quality - PC ) VR into mainstream as fast as Facebook's billions could.

    I don't think I can hold out til 2019 for a rift 2, I'll be looking at LG's new one, and whatever comes next year, but it can't just be the HMD/tech, it has to have some decent backing (so basically Steam VR or Facebook are the only choices right now) and needs to be ergonomically sound.

    Until the dust settles on gen 2 just enjoy VR for what it is now. I did my fair shair of complaining and idealising about VR and its future direction in the past, but life's too short to crusade about such things when these massive companies will do exactly what they want anyway. Lets just take the amazing tech we have now (For $400!!) and make the most of it. We couldn't have dreamed to have something of the quality of rift + touch for that price just 10 years back when all HMDs were very very bad and very expensive (and without controls or any software to speak of).

    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,157 Valuable Player
    Sharpfish said:.
    ....
    I don't think I can hold out til 2019 for a rift 2, I'll be looking at LG's new one, and whatever comes next year, but it can't just be the HMD/tech, it has to have some decent backing (so basically Steam VR or Facebook are the only choices right now) and needs to be ergonomically sound.
    ....

    Sorry @sharpfish - but the LG PC (highend) headset will not be for consumer deployment. They may change their mind after 19' but may not be worth getting your hopes up.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,738 Valuable Player
    AMD new cards are not looking very good when it comes to pushing new performance numbers either this year. Granted they are selling 1080 and Ti versions for less that will help push getting more customers into the hardware they need to run VR, but for a better higher end VR headset - it's not looking promising this year. Next few years will give a better outcome for sure, but agree I don't really wanna wait that long either to get a headset really.

    The question is - What ways can we keep pushing for higher resolution screens while removing the overhead to really run them in the first place. Eye tracking seems to be the golden egg here - but we also need to take a look at other solutions as well to combine the over all performance we need to keep scaling forward to allow higher end headset.

    After that , what can we do about movement and the limited space for most VR users. Once we figure out a better solution for both - I am sure VR PC and or anything really will keep pushing VR to the masses rather quickly really. The meta vers idea will work perfectly then with PC VR leading the way forward in the higher end/beta testing new methods and ideas while more stable lower end VR will follow up behind them, but still allow everyone access to the same stuff over all.

  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    edited July 2017
    kevinw729 said:
    Sharpfish said:.
    ....
    I don't think I can hold out til 2019 for a rift 2, I'll be looking at LG's new one, and whatever comes next year, but it can't just be the HMD/tech, it has to have some decent backing (so basically Steam VR or Facebook are the only choices right now) and needs to be ergonomically sound.
    ....

    Sorry @sharpfish - but the LG PC (highend) headset will not be for consumer deployment. They may change their mind after 19' but may not be worth getting your hopes up.
    first I've heard of it, but no skin off my nose as wasn't really interested anyway (I hate vive/valve trackpads). Not sure why they would have hyped it up for consumers >> [https://uploadvr.com/gdc-2017-hands-lgs-steamvr-headset/ ]  "Consumer pricing is yet to be decided"...

     then decided not to make it a consumer product though? I know plenty of people who were holding out for it (over rift/vive) seems like money left on the table. Their loss.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
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  • CalmfixupCalmfixup Posts: 291
    Nexus 6
    It's kind of nuts to me that you guys are saying you can't wait 2 years for a better headset...2 years will fly by. How often do you upgrade your phones? I'm definitely a tech enthusiast, but I'll wait 2 years to upgrade my phone and am not disappointed. The jump between CV1 and 2 will likely be great, however it won't seem worth it at all if you've spent tons of money in the interim upgrading to every new headset released. Just compare it to other new tech iterations - I believe they said that it would fall somewhere between console and mobile phone refreshes, and that sounds just perfect to me.



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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    You should buy a rift atmos,
    Ule be amazed by the improvements over the htc dev kit uve been using ;)

    Clear optics and 4k does sound sweet as fuck tho
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  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    AMD new cards are not looking very good when it comes to pushing new performance numbers either this year. Granted they are selling 1080 and Ti versions for less that will help push getting more customers into the hardware they need to run VR, but for a better higher end VR headset - it's not looking promising this year. Next few years will give a better outcome for sure, but agree I don't really wanna wait that long either to get a headset really.

    You sure about that?  Almost 100% of the people who constantly whine about poor performance in VR games or dissatisfaction with graphics have been Nvidia users, while I'm over here on a $200 AMD card, having zero complaints...

    And I have to wonder... is that a coincidence? :wink:
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,738 Valuable Player
    edited July 2017
    Calmfixup said:
    It's kind of nuts to me that you guys are saying you can't wait 2 years for a better headset...2 years will fly by. How often do you upgrade your phones? I'm definitely a tech enthusiast, but I'll wait 2 years to upgrade my phone and am not disappointed. The jump between CV1 and 2 will likely be great, however it won't seem worth it at all if you've spent tons of money in the interim upgrading to every new headset released. Just compare it to other new tech iterations - I believe they said that it would fall somewhere between console and mobile phone refreshes, and that sounds just perfect to me.


    Well Oculus release back in 2016 - so it be closer to 3 years if they even release in 2019 that is. Even if they release in 2019 I have a feeling it'll be a late 2019 release. There was even talks of a 2020 release as well. I think people really want a option to upgrade their rift in between that though. Right now - CV1 is great and awesome, but lacks future proofing as the next headset will be leading the way of the future for screen technology. I think that can be a bit off putting when looking at the current VR headset. At least with Gear, for example, you can just buy a new phone and boom better screen as things continue to get better.

    It would be super nice if they add in the option to upgrade the screen later in CV2 as a upgrade path. CV#.5 every 2 years and CV#.0 every 3-4 years. This give people options at least going forward allowing some people that don't really wanna wait - to at least get just a "bit more" when they can.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    elboffor said:
    You should buy a rift atmos,
    Ule be amazed by the improvements over the htc dev kit uve been using ;)

    Clear optics and 4k does sound sweet as fuck tho
    Couldn't agree more.  I use both every day at work - every day i feel the joy of upgrading, from Vive to Rift.
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    Calmfixup said:
    It's kind of nuts to me that you guys are saying you can't wait 2 years for a better headset...2 years will fly by. How often do you upgrade your phones? I'm definitely a tech enthusiast, but I'll wait 2 years to upgrade my phone and am not disappointed. The jump between CV1 and 2 will likely be great, however it won't seem worth it at all if you've spent tons of money in the interim upgrading to every new headset released. Just compare it to other new tech iterations - I believe they said that it would fall somewhere between console and mobile phone refreshes, and that sounds just perfect to me.


    uhmm.. fine if you haven't been into VR since dk1 (and before) and had hoped tech would move a bit faster. I said elsewhere I understand why they are waiting (to refine the tech rather than just throw it out as soon as possible) but if, and I stress *IF* another company release a killer VR system that leaps ahead of rift far enough, within those 2 years, then I'll be seriously looking at getting it. Not sure why that's hard to understand or 'nuts' when some of us have been using a similar quality level of Rift CV1 VR since 2013? 4 years .. 6 years by then? If it doesn't happen then ok. Rift is fine for what it is and the best gen 1 I've tried (good enough to keep me happy where the others couldn't!). TBH it's not even so much about resolution now, which with SS and sometimes even without can look pretty good on the rift a lot of times, but things like better FOV and no God Rays (and wireless) + eye tracking would be very good things to have... sooner, rather than later, esp as a dev.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
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  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    elboffor said:
    You should buy a rift atmos,
    Ule be amazed by the improvements over the htc dev kit uve been using ;)

    Clear optics and 4k does sound sweet as fuck tho
    Though this may seem a bit exaggerated, I was and still am genuinely impressed by how much better the rift looks compared to my old Vive. God rays, fov and all that notwithstanding, the clarity and uniformity of clear/good looking pixels combined with a much nicer sweetspot (I don't even notice my eyes ever going beyond it unlike Vive) makes the rift's visuals seem so much nicer than the Vive ever did.

    I remember when I first got vive and did the demo/tut in the 'white room' (where the furniture packs away), while I was blown away by proper tracked controllers (shooting balloons) I recall thinking 'ok so it's not much of an upgrade from my DK2 as far as SDE and 'pixel mess' is concerned. 

    When I tried the rift (before I got one but after I sold vive) it felt like more of an upgrade visually over vive than vive did over Dk2. And that's not a lie. Those small improvements on SDE and central clarity + much better lenses really help. I went from "ok so VR is still at dev kit stage" to "finally, we have a base level of acceptable quality" and as that quality extended to the ergonomics, fit and finish and controls (on rift) I was very happy to jump on board come summer of rift offer time! :) 

    I'm still surprised by those who claim to have used both saying they are pretty similar, the experience feels so much more refined on Rift it changes VR from a chore into a nice experience I look forward to. PSVR was half way there, definitely more 'fun' to put on than the Vive but the low res and janky tracking was a no go so sold it.

    So yeah I'm "happy" with the Rift, for now, but doesn't mean I want to wait till 20-friggin-19 for the next leap in VR quality, I'm not getting any younger and would prefer to be around to use this stuff rather than just keep dreaming about it (Ok I'm only 40 but I'm no spring chicken anymore)
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
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  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,277
    3Jane
    Atmos73 said:
    The Rift has god rays and I'd hate them just and much if not more than the rings.
    Well thing is, those god rays you mention can mostly only be seen with things like white text on a black background (the kind used in the opening credits). Meaning once the game launches those god rays are no longer perceivable, so you don't get to hate them at all.
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    edited July 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    elboffor said:
    You should buy a rift atmos,
    Ule be amazed by the improvements over the htc dev kit uve been using ;)

    Clear optics and 4k does sound sweet as fuck tho
    The Rift doesn't have clear optics either. The Rift has god rays and I'd hate them just and much if not more than the rings. Only Gen2 had any chance to saticefy my nags with Gen2 Vive or Rift. I like the DK2 and PSVR so do a lot of people. 
    Have you tried a rift? properly?

    I was repeating what you said for a good while until I actually compared them properly. Yes the rift does have god rays, and in fact they seem to trigger more often than Vive's ring reflections, but to me the Vive was a complete immersion killer when that happened while Rift is just a case of 'ok it's not perfect but damn... look how smooth and clear everything else is' - on Vive I didn't have 'smooth and clear' just really annoying sweet spot and horrible ring reflections that made it more obvious I was wearing something vs rift. 

    That said, I'm with you on the fact that we need zero god rays or any visual issues to truly "LOVE" VR, but if gen 2 IS going to be so far away why tolerate shitty ergonomics, bad trackpad controls, poor sweet spot, high SDE and a number of other issues for twice the price rather than just dumping that thing and buying a rift while they are cheap and enjoying, imo, the only Gen 1 HMD worth actually owning?? 

    PSVR was better than DK2 (but similar in some ways - no god rays) Vive was my least favourite *HMD* overall but was saved, only, by great tracking and having some half decent controls. I'd rather use a PSVR than VIve if it was PC compatible, and rift over all of them! Vive was just really a let down for me on the actual HMD, both ergonomically (by far the least comfy HMD I've ever had to wear) and also inside on the screens/lenses. The rift lenses are so smooth that god rays basically amount to a softening of the scene, not ideal but also only there on 10% of uses, Vive meanwhile rammed home the fact you were looking through a window and felt claustrophobic too. 

    Also the blacks and mura on the Vive weren't as good as the (updated software) Rift, the blu was a complete joke for me on Vive (jelly fish with torch level). Talk about no chance of immersion with that horrible grey/black with dots all over it. Here again Rift isn't perfect, but they've done something to it to get blacks a bit better, a bit cleaner, and up until god rays kick in it feels as good as my Dk2 used to on blacks. 

    Oh that reminds me, I went into 'the lab' a few days back to check it out again after a long time away (after selling my vive) and while the controls weren't perfect, I immediately felt more present due to the screen clarity on rift. It's at the point you don't even notice the SDE and if you do focus on it on purpose it's just 'smooth' and not disturbing, far less pixely looking than vive was. Yeah, it was like seeing a better version of the lab when i saw it in the rift. Not to mention the better comfort allowing me to stay in there longer to enjoy it.
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    Poster of the week who never got a T-Shirt ;( dayum they looked tasty!
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