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The Oculus Summer Sale spawns a new competitive analysis

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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,760 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    mmm I wouldn't say we need to make AI a top priority just yet. Sure - it be cool for it learn and have games grow with us - but at the same time - we're no where near the point that AI in games really matter just yet. We are still years out from the VR dream of a world around us.

    Full body hapics still need to become a thing, taste, smell, body tracking, some way to move with in a limit space, eye tracking, increase visual with limited hardware, etc etc

    Some of this can happen sooner than later for sure and some of this stuff we're really close cracking either way, but there still a big gab between when we hit a need for AI that smart to what human manual can do for us right now as well still.

    Some basic AI and full body tracking could already create some massive skill level increase alone for fighting games or RPG games. Long as the AI knows what you are about to do just like any other human would watch your body langue - the harder it will be for a human to out skill even basic AI control.

    Right now, all AI is base on action reaction - the problem with that is it has to wait to know what to do next and that makes it slow - What we need in stead of action reaction do sight - planning - action - sight - reasoning - reaction. Sighting being what are we doing and what is going on around the world with it. Planning is all ray track that can happen in real time basic off stats - and then finally the action/animation. If you are about to slash the AI with a sword:
    AI sees that you lifted your hand - AI plans by weighing the actions of stepping backwards in time or defending if it can or random change of "fear" (roll a dice) - does action it think is best - takes another look around for anything that might be helpful or what action it can do next - plan next action stab or run away  or use items around - reaction on player.

    As for AI on other things - it makes sense that AI might be getting some traction. Hardware is finally playing cache up on the ideas and works of other software and that means they are getting more powerful than what a human can do with in a given amount of time. That AI isn't the same as real AI. It will never take over the world even if we like to think of skynet:) It's more ... chart base pattern seekers.

    With that said - I don't think AI will ever be better than humans. At the end of the day we are all just rolling dice and hoping we don't get 1s each move we take. AI won't be any better than we are and skynet would know that. If human have problems driving cars and we been doing it for a while now - how do we expect AI base driving to really be 100% safe? Sure it can be done - but that means reworking roads and everything else. AI and humans both know that is going to cost a ton of resources and time to rework the road system to be better managed. This means both AI and humans have to take risk giving in a way that makes sense. Look Before You Leap in this case by checking senor data first - then moving forward all while hoping 100% of the time nothing bad will happen base of the collected senor data. If not enough senor data is collected - sure there will be problems, but that is a risk everything has to take when we move forward or backwards in any situation.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    In the gaming Industry, A.I. is making big strides with breakthroughs in games that not only involve memorizing multiple combinations simultaneously (e.g. Chess), but also with games that require intuition:

    Google's AI Wins Fifth And Final Game Against Go Genius Lee Sedol
    In the final game of their historic match, Google's artificially intelligent Go-playing computer system has defeated Korean grandmaster Lee Sedol, finishing the best-of-five series with four wins and one loss.

    The win puts an exclamation point on a significant moment for artificial intelligence. Over the last twenty-five years, machines have beaten the best humans at checkers, chess, Othello, even Jeopardy! But this is the first time a machine has topped the very best at Go—a 2,500-year-old game that's exponentially more complex than chess and requires, at least among humans, an added degree of intuition.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/03/googles-ai-wins-fifth-final-game-go-genius-lee-sedol/


    However, the focus of what I referred to is less about gaming/entertainment and more about industry and social media. If a Corporation can have a piece of A.I. software monitoring all activity (sales, profits, loss, revenue, asset valuation and devaluation, depreciation, expenses, cost of operations, employee performances and salary, competitive analysis, market fluctuations, etc), and then use all that to make accurate predictions about an organization's expected performance and even Stock behavior... then holy crap we have evolved in a way that will skyrocket Capitalism and Enterprise to heights never dreamed of before.

    Right now all this stuff requires millions of dollars in payouts to I.T. staff: Data Architects, Data Scientists, Business Intelligent Developers, and Software Programmers; plus licensing for the software, and operational costs for the hardware.

    And all that money just to create something that might be accurate 50-80% of the time, at best. Worse yet, predictable analysis (which is the dream we want to achieve with A.I.) is far from real-time today. By the time humans aggregate everything and present it in a meaningful way, a multitude of internal and external events have taken place that could change the outcome.

    When a piece of A.I. can analyze everything up to this exact moment in time and Output a variety of decisions with precise outcomes:




    ... and do it all in a matter of seconds with up-to-the-minute data, then AR/VR will simply put a face on top of everythig; a face that we can talk to, or information we can hold in our hands.

    Advances in A.I. are the key to making HMD's a standard for daily headgear  :)

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,760 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    Mmm I guess I understand a bit too much on how some of these shortcuts can work with in AI learning. Games are a really bad example of AI learning and mastering of anything. Because - well - games all have outcomes that can be ray trace down to a single point of action. So long as the AI knows the rules - they just follow a flow chart tree focusing down the path that leaders to a victory in most cases. Much like the image you was showing.

    Even talking AI can learn speech already and new words already. Why we haven't seen these in games yet - well I have a feeling it comes more down to the dev not wanting to create an AI for the world mostly:) Problem with AI is just that it can pick up the bad points of us playing with it as well. Like telling it - it's ok to drink battery acid when it's totally not to xD

    "sales, profits, loss, revenue, asset valuation and devaluation, depreciation, expenses, cost of operations, employee performances and salary, competitive analysis, market fluctuations, etc), and then use all that to make accurate predictions about an organization's expected performance and even Stock behavior" -- Yes this is where AI will shine for sure. This is the real test for AI and how well it can predict outcomes base off so much senor data coming in. Here - there isn't a lot of short cuts you can take to make this work well and this is where something learning how everything flows, delays, and works is a bigger undertaking than playing a game for sure!

    Right now, I don't see why game AI isn't at a higher level anyways for game/software as it is. Maybe it's not something we're lacking from a understanding point of view - but an asst much like all the objects we see in a 3D/VR world. To me - it just feels like we're lacking the open source code that game engines need to work on more than anything at this point. I don't feel like it is a priority from a hardware stands it is needed - but from a open stander point of view we need to look into it more.

    Maybe it is limited by hardware - but I see soo many projects still using older hardware making some big progress no game really takes advance from.
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    Zenbane can we at least wait until im old and grey before we create skynet!
    WAAAGH!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,503 Valuable Player
    Nice night for a walk!
    Wash day tomorrow. Nothing clean, right?

     :D 
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,007 Valuable Player
    Lmao

    Skynet gets hung up on kittie memes

    Its @RorschachPhoenix and ofc @nalex66 !!
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,503 Valuable Player
    It's not Skynet - it's Odin!!! :o:D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    Yep his talking about what he was going to do with the internet made me want to shoot him in the face.
    WAAAGH!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,503 Valuable Player
    Christ on a fucking bike, that Meme has reminded me of my Dad who was a self-employed mechanic for a number of years. One of his regular customers was a woman that we all called Cat Woman because she was a Crazy Cat Lady. My Dad hated working on her car because it fucking STANK to high heaven of cats.

    We were hoping that she was secretly rich and would leave my Dad a fortune in her Will but no dice lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,155 Valuable Player
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
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