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HTC finally gives in! The Vive price cut has arrived

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    Do you really think the ability to use a joystick has anything at all to do with whether the physics engine in a game is based on real world physics or not?
    Refer to the appropriate definition of "simulation" to assist you with your confusion, since you clearly think "tit-for-tat direct real world reflection" has anything to do with the simulation of processes:
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/simulation

    ED is a simulator, as clearly stated on its Wiki Page:
    Elite: Dangerous is a space adventure, trading, and combat simulation video game
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous

    That wiki definition is valid even based on your standards, because, and I quote:
    "There is more than one dictionary out there "
    -BeastyBaiter

    My Lucky's Tale jab may have only been a joke, but is not entirely inaccurate in this case.

    It's about as accurate as claiming that a Liquid is a Solid.


    It too can be played with a joystick, specifically the analog sticks on the Xbox and touch controllers.

    The character, Lucky, in the game, Lucky's Tale, does not have pitch, yaw, nor flight thrusts that the player can control to navigate him along the X/Y axis. Something you'd know if you actually played any of these games.


    I know I'm wasting my time with this, but you do realize that the spacecraft in ED, even with flight assist off, do not obey Newton's laws right?

    You are still rejecting the appropriate and official definition of "simulation."


    BeastyBaiter said:
    If the spaceships in ED are plausible
    Whether or not they are plausible has no bearing on the requirements for process simulation.

    Aside from that, your logic is highly flawed as you are still trying to conclude that:
    If Simulator A is less plausible than Simulator B, then Simulator A is not a Simulator.

    Which goes back to the earlier example:
    If 2 is a lesser number than 3, then 2 is not a number.
    :D
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  • HiCZoKHiCZoK Posts: 230
    Art3mis
    I really wonder if I should have got vive instead of oculus.

    I really like my oculus but tracking can be a problem with only 2 sensors fron facing setup. I have no way of setting it otherwise.

    That said - oculus is said to have better screen, be more comfy, lighter and have better controllers
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    HiCZoK said:
    I really wonder if I should have got vive instead of oculus.

    I really like my oculus but tracking can be a problem with only 2 sensors fron facing setup. I have no way of setting it otherwise.

    That said - oculus is said to have better screen, be more comfy, lighter and have better controllers
    I still only have 2 sensors (setup for Front-Facing), and yes, when you turn your back to them the tracking gets whacky if you place your hands in front of you (blocking the sensors).

    Others have recommended a front/back setup with the 2 sensors, although I've yet to try it myself. I do plan to get that 3rd sensor very soon. It is long overdue.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,153 Valuable Player
    HiCZoK said:

    I really like my oculus but tracking can be a problem with only 2 sensors fron facing setup. I have no way of setting it otherwise.

    That said - oculus is said to have better screen, be more comfy, lighter and have better controllers
    perhaps i am miss reading you... light house is good but its not magic. if you are saying you CANT put 2 sensors at a diagonal setting which is the best way to get 360 degree tracking from the rift with 2 cameras... then surely you wont be able to set light house optimally either?

    if you put both light house units front facing, and you turn your back fully occluding the wands.... will you not get the same problem?

    worse perhaps because its my understanding is the vive does NOT have tracking sensors on the BACK of the hmd, so whilst in the rift 2 forward facing cameras give you 360 degree hmd tracking, the vive hmd would presumably suffer from occusion as well as your wands if the light house was set up incorrectly?
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    Everything that @bigmike20vt said.

    It's basically a space trucker simulator tbh. If Euro Truck and American Truck Simulators are sims then so is Elite Dangerous.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,667 Valuable Player
    HiCZoK said:
    I really wonder if I should have got vive instead of oculus.

    I really like my oculus but tracking can be a problem with only 2 sensors fron facing setup. I have no way of setting it otherwise.

    That said - oculus is said to have better screen, be more comfy, lighter and have better controllers
    Yea to me (Just my personal opinion) the Rift feels like an incomplete experience without the 3rd sensor. When I run 2 for simming (I use the usb extension for my 3rd sensor to hook my HOTAS into for flight sims) I can definitely tell a difference in the tracking when turning and reaching. I'm so used to spinning around in circles and never losing tracking. 
  • Smashed_PumpkinSmashed_Pumpkin Posts: 71
    Hiro Protagonist
    I've not tried a 2 sensor set up, I thought with the sensors in opposite corners you should still be able to achieve 360 degrees of tracking. I made sure to pick up a 3rd sensor when i first bought my Rift and not really had any problems with tracking as long as I stay in my boundary grid and don't cuddle my controllers too much.

    My first VR experience was with the HTC vive and I was told I'd need a 3 sensor setup to get comparable tracking quality on the Rift.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    I'm beginning to think that some people on here are starting to make me look completely sane lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Log_a_FrogLog_a_Frog Posts: 1,057
    Trinity
    child labour at its best. 
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,712 Valuable Player
    Child Labor?

    WAAAGH!
  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    It does make me wonder when people say you need 3 sensors to match the Vive, as both systems rely on line of sight if sensors/lighthouses are in the same place tracking will be similar.

    I will say the wands having much more sticking out will probably give a slight advantage in hand tracking but the oculus front and rear tracking points should give better head tracking.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    Percy1983 said:
    It does make me wonder when people say you need 3 sensors to match the Vive, as both systems rely on line of sight if sensors/lighthouses are in the same place tracking will be similar.

    I will say the wands having much more sticking out will probably give a slight advantage in hand tracking but the oculus front and rear tracking points should give better head tracking.

    It's because the two-sensor setup is always showcased as front-facing. Even during the Oculus Setup tutorial, the video has the two sensors up front:




    The little tutorial hottie has hers up front.

    Oculus doesn't do enough to advertise the multiple setup options. It's like they don't have enough confidence at times (bad marketing?)

    Oculus is like a super sexy girl that is highly insecure; whereas the Vive is like that one person who keeps wearing Yoga Pants even though they clearly SHOULDN'T  :'(

    But I digress...
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  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,007 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    I'm beginning to think that some people on here are starting to make me look completely sane lol


    This is the most disturbing thing i read this month
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    Percy1983 said:
    It does make me wonder when people say you need 3 sensors to match the Vive, as both systems rely on line of sight if sensors/lighthouses are in the same place tracking will be similar.

    I will say the wands having much more sticking out will probably give a slight advantage in hand tracking but the oculus front and rear tracking points should give better head tracking.
    Actually if you have 3 sensors you should get less occlusion and better tracking than with 2 Lighthouses. I'm pretty sure someone on here did the trig a while back, I think you get something like 5% less occlusion with three sensors.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    snowdog said:
    Percy1983 said:
    It does make me wonder when people say you need 3 sensors to match the Vive, as both systems rely on line of sight if sensors/lighthouses are in the same place tracking will be similar.

    I will say the wands having much more sticking out will probably give a slight advantage in hand tracking but the oculus front and rear tracking points should give better head tracking.
    Actually if you have 3 sensors you should get less occlusion and better tracking than with 2 Lighthouses. I'm pretty sure someone on here did the trig a while back, I think you get something like 5% less occlusion with three sensors.
    Exactly the point, I was talking about people saying you need 3 to match the vive when you can match the vive with 2.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,483 Valuable Player
    Percy1983 said:
    snowdog said:
    Percy1983 said:
    It does make me wonder when people say you need 3 sensors to match the Vive, as both systems rely on line of sight if sensors/lighthouses are in the same place tracking will be similar.

    I will say the wands having much more sticking out will probably give a slight advantage in hand tracking but the oculus front and rear tracking points should give better head tracking.
    Actually if you have 3 sensors you should get less occlusion and better tracking than with 2 Lighthouses. I'm pretty sure someone on here did the trig a while back, I think you get something like 5% less occlusion with three sensors.
    Exactly the point, I was talking about people saying you need 3 to match the vive when you can match the vive with 2.
    You can't quite match the Vive with 2 because the Vive controllers are huge so there's less occlusion. If you turn around in a circle with 2 you get a slight blip when tracking goes from the Touch controller losing one sensor and seeing the other. It's only a slight jump, but it's certainly noticeable.
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    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,068
    Wintermute
    snowdog said:
    Everything that @bigmike20vt said.

    It's basically a space trucker simulator tbh. If Euro Truck and American Truck Simulators are sims then so is Elite Dangerous.
    I agree - I don't care if it's an accurate flight simulator (personally I'm not interested in flying a plane), all I care about is that it's a cool space-combat sim that makes me think of Privateer, Elite, Frontier, and many of the other ones I've played over the past 30 years, except that I'm inside the cockpit, and it's friken awesome.

    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • Smashed_PumpkinSmashed_Pumpkin Posts: 71
    Hiro Protagonist
    Don't the Vive light houses have a wider field of view than the Rift sensors? I'm sure I've read somewhere that the Rift's sensors have a "tall" view, similar to a phone camera held portrait. And that the nature of the Vive lighthouses emitting lasers means their coverage, per light house, is better than the IR cameras of the Rift sensors.

    Also I've read that the actual tracking technology of the Vive gives a higher quality track, so even with partial occlusion you might still get a solid track from a few sensors catching lasers. On the other had the Rift is effectively taking image data from cameras and tracking contrasted points in order to calculate the track. I could have this quite wrong though, it's just my understanding from what I've read.
  • JD-UKJD-UK Posts: 2,367 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    Zenbane said:

    It's because the two-sensor setup is always showcased as front-facing. Even during the Oculus Setup tutorial, the video has the two sensors up front:

    When I got my replacement Rift and ran the newer set-up, it did say you could set up the sensors at 180° to each other (diagonally) and gave that as an optional (though experimental) set-up.

    Don't know if it's changed again since.




  • HiCZoKHiCZoK Posts: 230
    Art3mis
    Sharpfish said:
    I'm really not trying to be an ass about this but I honestly wouldn't (re)buy Vive even if it was $300 let alone $600. Don't like the controls, don't like the ergonomics, don't like the SDE and it feels far from fully realised/finished (unlike rift). The only flaw they have in common is god-rays (of differing types) everything else feels 'sorted' on rift and 'unfinished' on vive.

    Either way, it's still great news for VR as some facebook haters will jump on Vive now which is good, the more users in PC VR the better. I'd still advise anyone I knew to go rift though. Gen 1 is done and rift is the best we have until gen 2.
    Exactly. Rift is just a better product.
    I realized yesterday after sitting for 3 hours in oculus medium, that it all just works without me thinking about it. The screen quality and touch controllers are amazing.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    Brixmis said:
    Zenbane said:

    It's because the two-sensor setup is always showcased as front-facing. Even during the Oculus Setup tutorial, the video has the two sensors up front:

    When I got my replacement Rift and ran the newer set-up, it did say you could set up the sensors at 180° to each other (diagonally) and gave that as an optional (though experimental) set-up.

    Don't know if it's changed again since.
    I believe you are correct; I remember something similar. Although I remember it more as an "FYI" as opposed to the more advertised front-facing. I should probably run through the tutorial again soon.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    Back on topic,

    Interesting news regarding HTC's stock: it's going up! HTC has been on a decline for a long time now, but thanks to their ability to copy everything Facebook and Oculus performs...

    HTC Shares Rocket Following Vive Price Cut

    HTC is obviously hoping that the $200 price cut for its HTC Vive, announced on Monday, will provide a big boost to sales, but it’s also boosted something else: the company’s stock.

    Share prices jumped from $62.50 NTD (just over $2 USD) in early Monday to $67.70 ($2.24) by the end of the day. That’s a 9.09% rise. There’s been a slight decline since (prices sit at $65.40 at the time of writing), but it’s still a big bump.

    Article:
    https://uploadvr.com/htc-shares-rocket-following-vive-price-cut/


    I hope the HTC exec's at least sent Zuckerberg a Gift Basket.


    Although I suppose we can't really credit HTC's rise in stock to their Vive price cut, 'cause Atmos said so:

    I don't care what their mobile division is doing. If you read my last post I already shown you HTC Vive Corp is a seperate entity. It's like say ooh look at Sony they're not selling 3D TV's any more their whole Corp must be burning.

    https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/549782/#Comment_549782


    Someone needs to get the word out... HTC's stock has nothing to do with their VR offerings anymore :#
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  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,007 Valuable Player
    have HTC made any games for VR

    Serious question
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    That wpuld be no. But they did make the first smart phone i bought
    Htc desire hd
    Not only was it the first smart phone i had, but also the first smart phone i had which screen got smashed :(
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  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,007 Valuable Player
    Question answers are kind of lame
    I was just asking if they did, it only just occur to me.

    Is no need to be so defensive
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    I'll add Rifts best selling game 'The Climb' to the list made by Crytek. My point is all the Rifts best games were never actually made by Oculus.
    You don't actually know what the Rifts best games are because you don't own a Rift. Even if you did manage to play all of the games made by Oculus, you would never allow yourself to admit which of them are great. The same way you didn't allow yourself to admit that the Vive played a role in HTC's ongoing quarterly losses.

     You deny facts/reality, and then back yourself in a corner... because now that people are reporting stock increases as a result of HTC's Vive price cut, you can't acknowledge it due to your earlier fact rejection routine.

    Silly stuff :D
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,143 Valuable Player
    edited August 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    Oh, is it random one-liner time? K!





    Atmos73 said:
    It just makes me laugh some times how FB bought Oculus and sold the Rift. They bribed and payed off Devs to prop up their store without lifting a finger for VR but here we are where people question every single thing HTC do or have done in the past while loving FB fire sales for a VR kit that was getting outsold 2:1.
    Well, that was all fiction. What should make you laugh is someone who first rejects that a company's product line plays a role in its profit loss... and then is later forced to read about how that exact same product line increased its stock. Now that's quality humor.

    Atmos73 said:
    People need to concentrate more on what Oculus are doing because
    Like HTC? 'Cause HTC is concentrating on what Oculus is doing, which is why they have copied everything from HMD design (Vive comfort upgrades), hand-controllers (Vive Knuckles for finger tracking), custom library (VivePort), and market share strategies (Vive price cuts).

    You need to concentrate on what HTC is doing. Plus facts. Concentrate on facts too :p
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,423 Volunteer Moderator
    Atmos73 said:
    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

    It just makes me laugh some times how FB bought Oculus and sold the Rift. They bribed and payed off Devs to prop up their store without lifting a finger for VR but here we are where people question every single thing HTC do or have done in the past while loving FB fire sales for a VR kit that was getting outsold 2:1.

    People need to concentrate more on what Oculus are doing because OC4 could be a huge disapointment and no one will notice.
    So funding a ton of VR content development (that wouldn't have otherwise happened) doesn't count?
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